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nara

Telekinesis

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Atheist God
There is no proof for either side.

Nonevidence does not equate to nonexistance. I say it twice now on this thread.

No matter how many times you say it, this is never going to be true.... This is quite possibly one of the most illogical arguments someone can make.

You guys need to stop arguing.

If you're going to bash someone over the head for blindly saying something is real, then you should be bashed for blindly, and find yourself some proof.

I'm not bashing anyone in the head... but if your going to claim you can move something with your mind etc I am going to ask you to back up the claim... Not one person since I joined this site has been willing to cooperate in the slightest regarding TK including you.

It makes me sad to see the lack of open-mindedness on this forum.

Even to the believers, they can't accept that something could possibly not exist.

You are simply taking what people say here far to personally... If you dont like what people post here then perhaps these boards aren't for you.

Now all of you simply go your own way.

I'm tired of the argument, it's filled to much of my life. To quote the old saying, "Can't we all just get along?"

I have no problem with anyone here, I don't hold a grudge against anyone either and most of us do get along here fairly well although sometimes we clash with one another...

To quote another old saying "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Debate will happen here regardless of whether you want it to or not this is a fact and one that will likely not change for as long as these forums exist.

im not expecting ppl 2 take my word,i just put my oppinion out ther showing what i belive in.im sorry if i offended u in any way it was not my intension,im not her 2 argue only 2 spread light n meet interessting ppl! im not here 2 deliver solid proof. the proof u got 2 find 4 urself, thats the fun thing about it i think

As long as you claim TK exists people will ask you to prove this claim... Everyone here is interesting also once you get to know em.

I have tried to find proof to support TK and came up empty handed, fact is there is simply no evidence to support the existence of TK.

n how can evrything Uri does be replicated,tell me how 2 replicate how he fixes a clock many clocks even ppl home whatchin on tv their clocks start workin also n they havent worked 4 many years cause they missed parts in them ,how could those parts suddenly be back in the clocks n strt 2 work? May Truth strike u all _peace

Actually he doesn't really fix the clocks at home etc... So he can hire a few actors to say that this happened etc but I have watched many specials where they claim oh this will happen in your house and it never happens.... Your just assuming he is messing with the clocks in the homes of the tv audience... Basically he lied and you believed him.

Simple misdirection and telling you what you want to hear is all he does.

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Sporkling

Actually he doesn't really fix the clocks at home etc... So he can hire a few actors to say that this happened etc but I have watched many specials where they claim oh this will happen in your house and it never happens.... Your just assuming he is messing with the clocks in the homes of the tv audience... Basically he lied and you believed him.

Simple misdirection and telling you what you want to hear is all he does.

Good idea. Give me proof that he lied.

No matter how many times you say it, this is never going to be true.... This is quite possibly one of the most illogical arguments someone can make.

Give me proof that it is not true. Tell us why the human body is incapable of this.

Edited by Electrokinesis is me

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drakonwick

These subjects are like cultures, politics, and religion, in a sense that they have all been developed to control you. Albeit that more people than not need that control. They need the sense of reason and protection.

Why do these subjects dominate? Because they have the control. And how do these subjects gain control? Well it is the same reason when you watch a commerical on the T.V. and say, wow, I really want that. They make you believe they are the better faction.

The theory of telekinesis has a very real relationship with these other entities. IF you release your mind from these controls. You will then be able to see the truth.

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Sporkling

Oh but politics are very logical and yet they control you. You are right when saying things should not control you. Therefore I shall not be controlled by skeptism.

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drakonwick
Oh but politics are very logical and yet they control you. You are right when saying things should not control you. Therefore I shall not be controlled by skeptism.

LOL, you are lost in you're belief that this supposed real power works for you Electro! If you want to continue letting

it control you, then so be it. As long as you have faith in it, that should be well enough. "Bravo!"

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Sporkling

thank yew thank yew

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Atheist God
Actually he doesn't really fix the clocks at home etc... So he can hire a few actors to say that this happened etc but I have watched many specials where they claim oh this will happen in your house and it never happens.... Your just assuming he is messing with the clocks in the homes of the tv audience... Basically he lied and you believed him.

Simple misdirection and telling you what you want to hear is all he does.

Good idea. Give me proof that he lied.

No matter how many times you say it, this is never going to be true.... This is quite possibly one of the most illogical arguments someone can make.

Give me proof that it is not true. Tell us why the human body is incapable of this.

Give me proof he didn't.

I have stated several times why the human body has no need for the abilities you say exist. Your proof we do not need TK is the fact we have evolved to have opposable thumbs and big brains to manipulate our environment. Other proof is the lack of evidence to support such abilities as well.

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eight bits

If the purpose of k-skepticism is to advance the application of science to questions of human capacities, then an obligation attaches to argue from scientific principles.

I have stated several times why the human body has no need for the abilities you say exist. Your proof we do not need TK is the fact we have evolved to have opposable thumbs and big brains to manipulate our environment.

This is a bald teleological argument. Teleology has had no place in science since shortly after Darwin.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleology-biology/

Since you are a Ph.D. botanist (or is it Sc.D. ?), you know, or ought to know, that contemporary scientific opinion is that the prevalence of traits is determined by selective advantage, not "need."

Other proof is the lack of evidence to support such abilities as well.

And this is "the absence of evidence is evidence of absence."

The status of a negative search result depends on the thoroughness of the search, as well as the credibility of alternative hypotheses in light of the result.

Example: I lost my spare car key the other day, and it failed to turn up after what impressed me as a reasonable, even uneconomically lavish, search. Eventually, it did turn up, after I had deployed one of the usual expedients for extending search (in this case, re-examining places already investigated, but from a different vantage point).

Under the "A of E is E of A" heuristic, I ought to have given up when I reached into my pocket, and the key was not there.

In a closer analysis, my failed grab for the key was "evidence of absence" in the narrow and trivial sense that it did increase the prospects that I had simply lost the key (obviously impossible had the grab been successful).

Nevertheless, it is simply absurd to reason from "My key is not where I thought it was" to the conclusion "therefore, I shouldn't look for it."

And there is a third illegitimate argument in your post, and that is in your new sig. How nice that you are Dr. AtheistGod Botanist. Arguments from authority have no place in scientific discourse. Oh yes, you didn't mean it as an argument, it just showed up in your sig.

Successful scientific arguments convince. If yours do not, then do not blame your audience. Oh, they're too young, they're neurotic, they have low self-esteem, ... etc.

If you believe that your audience is incapable of rational thought, then why are you corresponding with them? And if they are capable of rational thought, and you have failed to convince them, then it is your burden to make better arguments, not theirs to be convinced by whatever you choose to serve up.

Feel free to report this post to a moderator, too. Arguments from intimidation are also impermissible in scientific discourse.

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Atheist God
Since you are a Ph.D. botanist (or is it Sc.D. ?), you know, or ought to know, that contemporary scientific opinion is that the prevalence of traits is determined by selective advantage, not "need."

Traits are determined by your surrounding environment and we 'need' these traits to adapt to our surrounding environments to give us the advantage over other species. We simply do not need these powers to give us the advantage and keep progressing which is why we don't have them.

If we had evolved to have such abilities then there would be no debate here... There isn't one anyway as far as I'm concerned or at least not until something is brought to the table to start one anyway.

The key word in your post is 'opinion' and there are endless opinions regarding evolutionary theory.

And this is "the absence of evidence is evidence of absence."

The status of a negative search result depends on the thoroughness of the search, as well as the credibility of alternative hypotheses in light of the result.

Many researchers have searched all around the world investigating claims of TK and came up empty handed.

Example: I lost my spare car key the other day, and it failed to turn up after what impressed me as a reasonable, even uneconomically lavish, search. Eventually, it did turn up, after I had deployed one of the usual expedients for extending search (in this case, re-examining places already investigated, but from a different vantage point).

Under the "A of E is E of A" heuristic, I ought to have given up when I reached into my pocket, and the key was not there.

Thats a bad analogy...

You knew the key had to be somewhere because it was in 'your' hand.

With TK this is what we get... 'I have this power etc', 'Can you prove to me you have this power', <insert excuse here>.

People claim TK exists but no one or at least the people here are willing to back up this claim with something tangible... If TK existed it would be able to be measured... How come no one is willing to have this power measured?

In the case of TK absence of evidence is evidence of absence... Not only do such abilities go against already established known universal law regarding energy and matter but with all the claims over the years how come nobody has been willing to cooperate and end the debate. Remember we can only in this case rely on evidence and since there is none being presented and since th only way to prove a negative is the absence of evidence there is only one logical conclusion that can be made until something tangible shows up, and this is of course that such abilities cannot and do not exist.

And there is a third illegitimate argument in your post, and that is in your new sig. How nice that you are Dr. AtheistGod Botanist. Arguments from authority have no place in scientific discourse. Oh yes, you didn't mean it as an argument, it just showed up in your sig.

My signature has hidden meaning.... Not related to this specific argument and I will tell you why if you request in PM as the subject matter and plants i specialize in these cannot be discussed here on these boards due to forum policy...

Successful scientific arguments convince. If yours do not, then do not blame your audience. Oh, they're too young, they're neurotic, they have low self-esteem, ... etc.

They convince people that are willing to accept it... In case you haven't noticed many people here are simply not willing to accept any argument that violates their perception regarding this specific subject matter. Never the less it never hurts to try..

If you believe that your audience is incapable of rational thought, then why are you corresponding with them? And if they are capable of rational thought, and you have failed to convince them, then it is your burden to make better arguments, not theirs to be convinced by whatever you choose to serve up.

My main argument is where is the evidence?

If you weren't busy singling me out here and attacking me left right and center as you have consistently done and go and red many of these peoples back posts you will find their general consensus regarding scientific method is one of distrust and disbelief when faced with tough questions and especially when asked to present some evidence to back those claims up by the skeptics here.

You will find that some members here no matter how good the argument will still say otherwise.

Feel free to report this post to a moderator, too. Arguments from intimidation are also impermissible in scientific discourse.

I wont report you but I will ask you one more time to stop making the thread about me. So please stop making your posts of a personal nature as I am not the subject matter here but rather the existence of TK.

I honestly do not like to report people but I will simply because I don't have to put up with crap. This has nothing to do with intimidation and everything to do with preventing posts that attack me personally.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

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eight bits
I wont report you but I will ask you one more time to stop making the thread about me.

This is a discussion forum. If you post your opinion, then I, along wth every other member, am free to discuss it.

Every time you do so.

I stand for that principle when psi-kiddies post "I don't want to hear from skeptics in this thread." I stand for that principle when you post, too.

If you do not wish to have your expressions of opinion commented upon, then that's what blogs are for.

You are not being singled out, except by yourself. You are the only k-skeptic I know of who criticizes non-scientists for not being scientists using arguments that have no constituency in established science, or if you prefer, arguments which are controversial in established science and yet are presented as if they were generally accepted.

It would be the same if somebody were to advocate "scientific creationism." He or she would be entitled to advocate creationism, but misleadingly calling that view "scientific" legitimately invites comment.

Every time it is done.

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bleedingelite
First of all your new here and hardly in a position to tell any member what to post and where they can and cannot post. Second of all I don't care what people believe I just don't appreciate liars.

Last but not least in regards to evidence this is all on those who say they have super powers. Fact is no evidence is evidence of non-existence and hearsay or faith won't change this.

You will find that you attitude won't get you far here kid.

Sir Isaac Newton made some pretty huge discoveries in his time and while he practiced alchemy his discoveries more or less impacted the physics world more like the discovery of gravity for example.

No one ever stops learning regardless of age however it doesn't make you more of a person then what you are it just makes you more intelligent then what you were.

If you claim to have super powers or that you will you deserve to be humiliated. Perhaps humiliation is the key to zap people back to a place i like call reality.

I'm glad you asked.

While toes are commonly thought to have no purpose they actually serve a few purposes. Our toes provide stability and allow us to balance better, they also allow us to run and walk efficiently as well. If you were born with out toes you would adapt to not having them however if someone just chopped them all off it would take you a while to learn how to balance, walk and run again.

Just like many other animals toes are essential for efficient movement and balance...

You really come off as an arrogant d*******. I bet you're the life of every party.

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Atheist God
You really come off as an arrogant d*******. I bet you're the life of every party.

Why? Because I ask people to stay on topic as opposed to attacking me? Because I address posts point for point as opposed to being malicious?...

You may think I'm a dick (my real name ha ha) and your certainly entitled to that opinion, however I only ask that people stop making posts of personal nature as they violate board rules and are just plain rude.

This is a discussion forum. If you post your opinion, then I, along wth every other member, am free to discuss it.

You are free to discuss what you please however you are not free to attack other members simply because you may dislike them. You obviously don't get the point and I don't think you ever will....

I stand for that principle when psi-kiddies post "I don't want to hear from skeptics in this thread." I stand for that principle when you post, too.

If you do not wish to have your expressions of opinion commented upon, then that's what blogs are for.

There is a difference between attacking the message and attacking the messenger. You disagree with me on many points and thats good because it encourages discussion... I am just merely saying that you should make your posts so personal regarding me... Whether you admit it or not through out this thread you have been attacking me especially in your last few posts.

You are not being singled out, except by yourself. You are the only k-skeptic I know of who criticizes non-scientists for not being scientists using arguments that have no constituency in established science, or if you prefer, arguments which are controversial in established science and yet are presented as if they were generally accepted.

It would be the same if somebody were to advocate "scientific creationism." He or she would be entitled to advocate creationism, but misleadingly calling that view "scientific" legitimately invites comment.

Every time it is done.

Again you have managed to make an entire post dedicated to me.... Cut it out, it's not cool man.

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Sporkling

Why? Because I ask people to stay on topic as opposed to attacking me? Because I address posts point for point as opposed to being malicious?...

You may think I'm a dick (my real name ha ha) and your certainly entitled to that opinion, however I only ask that people stop making posts of personal nature as they violate board rules and are just plain rude.

I have those sometimes and I don't complain.

You are free to discuss what you please however you are not free to attack other members simply because you may dislike them. You obviously don't get the point and I don't think you ever will....

Of course. But I do get attacked sometimes. And I only have to find other things or adress the problem via pm.

There is a difference between attacking the message and attacking the messenger. You disagree with me on many points and thats good because it encourages discussion... I am just merely saying that you should make your posts so personal regarding me... Whether you admit it or not through out this thread you have been attacking me especially in your last few posts.

Don't you think these fourms can get a little sensitive?

Again you have managed to make an entire post dedicated to me.... Cut it out, it's not cool man.

Its not dedicated to you. Anyone who is like you feels attacked too. I do that, you do that, everyone does that. But its often easy to see other's mistakes rather than yours.

Give me proof he didn't.

I don't have to prove anything, I am not the one making claims.

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eight bits
I've got a BIG question... Is it possible to learn Telekinesis?

The only "scientific" ways to find out anything are to try it yourself, and to compare notes with others with similar interests.

At the moment, nobody has both learned telekinesis and reported this to the world of serious scholarship. Reminds you of claims of an afterlife, right? In both cases, many go seeking, nobody seems to come back, quite a few people fake it, and many more interpet their genuine experiences with much too little critical examination.

In the case of TK, there are several possible explanations for the current situation. Maybe there is no such thing. Maybe TK exists, and it cannot be taught. Maybe those who learn are uninterested in teaching others, or prefer to teach some but not all others.

Maybe the value of having the skill depends on it being rare, so "those who know don't say." Maybe there are ethical problems with disclosure, such as concerns about how some organizations might use it. Maybe those who learn are taught in consideration of their promise not to teach, as simple as that.

As you can see from this thread, anyone who does offer public testimony will be ridiculed and harrassed. That in itself is good reason to dummy up.

Witch burning is socially frowned upon these days, but the mindset that expressed itself in witch burning is obviously alive and well. Witches were burned for their own good, not just civic improvement. As the French say, the more things change, the more they are the same.

Good luck in your quest. Let us know how it turns out, if you are willing and able to do so. And if it is a negative result, then please report that.

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The Skeptic Eric Raven
As you can see from this thread, anyone who does offer public testimony will be ridiculed and harrassed. That in itself is good reason to dummy up.

Come on now. Thats an easy excuse. Especially since most claiming powers are around the age of 13. :)

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Max.L
Of course telekinesis is real. How else do you think those heavy dragons are able to fly?

lol

what makes you think dragons are heavy , English Mediveil paintings always squash alot of objcts in to a picture , making evrything look fat and I think dragons would look like those in Dragon Dynasty the movie

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Max.L
LOL, you are lost in you're belief that this supposed real power works for you Electro! If you want to continue letting

it control you, then so be it. As long as you have faith in it, that should be well enough. "Bravo!"

Hey , just so you know , I believe that evryone is capable of TK , only that some require a much longer time to discover and control this ability

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eight bits

Ah, Eric. Post #24 in this thread says, in pertinent part

Your a natural liar is what you are... Yet another kid with an IQ smaller then their shoe size post

How does the age of the person being so described make that OK? Why would anyone, of whatever age, volunteer to stand in his or her shoes, seeing the result?

Even if the person is a liar, what's with the IQ remark? That is a gratuitous, entirely personal attack.

Conclusion: As you can see from this thread, anyone who does offer public testimony will be ridiculed and harrassed. That in itself is good reason to dummy up.

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drakonwick
Hey , just so you know , I believe that evryone is capable of TK , only that some require a much longer time to discover and control this ability

Possibly! But, this is you're opinion so, I won't condone you for it.

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Sporkling
Possibly! But, this is you're opinion so, I won't condone you for it.

Very well said indeed. Therefore I shall not condone you either.

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drakonwick
Very well said indeed. Therefore I shall not condone you either.

Thanks for sparing me Electro! I bow to your infinite greatness. :nw:

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pirochaos

i hope that in about 10 or 20 more years people will become even more open minded to this and help out.

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drakonwick
i hope that in about 10 or 20 more years people will become even more open minded to this and help out.

If there is no solid proof in 10 to 20 years, then I suppose you have your answer.

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Sporkling
If there is no solid proof in 10 to 20 years, then I suppose you have your answer.

The answer is if there is no proof in 20 years, nobody want to speak of it. It is always better to hide something like that.

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..Narcotic..

Maby it was crack

Never know

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