Violence fear over Islam film

[lava]

A simple yes or no will do, are they Muslims?

how old are you hetrodoxly? 11? 12?

[lava]

huh?....the saudis have beheaded 15 criminals this year....thats 15 in less than a month are you ok?....

Islam is written in Qur'an. if you say there is death penalty then i would expect you to bring verses. cos i don't care for what people do. people are NOT the real source for the religion. Qur'an is. so bring it up.

[Unlimited]

Islam is written in Qur'an. if you say there is death penalty then i would expect you to bring verses. cos i don't care for what people do. people are NOT the real source for the religion. Qur'an is. so bring it up.

The qurans a book of false stories about a false prophet...it's a book to justify the ignorance and violence spewed by the jihadists..

[Moon Monkey]

Islam is written in Qur'an. if you say there is death penalty then i would expect you to bring verses. cos i don't care for what people do. people are NOT the real source for the religion. Qur'an is. so bring it up.

Before we move on to more verses, didn't Dog Fish bring up some verses for you to repudiate in post 43

[stevewinn]

whats going to happen to the three little pigs? they all going to market,?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7204635.stm

[acidhead]

The qurans a book of false stories about a false prophet...it's a book to justify the ignorance and violence spewed by the jihadists..

WOW! Have you read the Quran?

Seriously have you read it? the real quran? have you?

I'm interested if you have really truefully read it?

What happens throughout the book?

Can you detail and refer to chapters?

or,

is it hear-say that you refer to.. such as repeating what you heard from somebody else to justify the ignorance and violence spewed by the jihadists.

[Unlimited]

WOW! Have you read the Quran?

i wouldnt waste my time..i know it's a book about love....he said islam didnt practice the death penalty...i say they do....

[lava]

So because I'm against the idea of myself, my friends and my family being murdered in cold blood... I'm somehow wrong in this?

if you were attacked by a murderer, it is completly normal for you to defend yourself, your family, friends and even a complete stranger if you can. since you're sensetive enough to bring this up, i assume you've been attacked by one or more. how many times did it happen?

To clear up any confusion, I'm an atheist.

and you're not the only one.

As for 'ignoring' the other verses, all the warm and fuzzy verses in the koran won't make up for the fact that there are many evil ones in it.

how is that gonna work? there is only one book. just one. you gotto consider all together to have one picture of all. do you think verses are not related? they all together have a meaning. you see, that's the reason why i think you and those ignorants are ver much alike. you're just happen to be on opposite directions. just like -2 and +2. they simply do what you're doing. picking up one verse and ignoring the rest and acting all vicious and cruel.

Because we're not talking about history, we're talking about right now and today.

yes right now and today. how many people are getting killed everyday in your country? and how many Muslims are dying every day in Iraq? if it is possible that you think this isnot related, i'd tell you by now. Iran was Iran as the way it is today ever since i was born and even before. reactions coming from Muslims are seriously related to Palestine and Iraq.

I also find it amusing that you're trying to argue that because others do evil, it's ok for muslims to do evil.

then you are amusing yourself. cos i can never say that. evil is evil. it is simple as it is. yet when you talk about Muslim murderers, you give this certain impression that all the Muslims are potentially murderers, just because they are Muslims. that's what i am, at least trying to argue about. i wouldnot think every Canadian men is potentially woman hater. but your first thought that crosses your mind would be "potential maniac" when you meet a Muslim. that is really like rasicim. nothing more nothing less, Kratos

Prove that site wrong and you get $50,000 dollars as well from them.

you must have been confuse me with some kind of clown without job, Kratos. also, i would not spend my precious time with a web site. i am talking with you. you do claim so you personally deal with me. i pay you 0,5 dollars for that. is it tempting enough? if not, i can make it 1 just for you!

Edited January 23, 2008 by lava

[acidhead]

i wouldnt waste my time..i know it's a book about love....he said islam didnt practice the death penalty...i say they do....

he also said, "jump off a bridge"

[lava]

Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

Verse 48:29 - "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."

Verse 66:9 - "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."

Verse 9:5-6 - "Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them."

Just to list a few.

[9:122] Nor should the Believers all go forth together: if a contingent from every expedition remained behind, they could devote themselves to studies in religion, and admonish the people when they return to them, that thus they (may learn) to guard themselves (against evil).

[9:123] O ye who believe! Fight the Unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

[48:29] Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds, Forgiveness, and a great Reward.

[66:9] O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell; an evil refuge (indeed).

[4] (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

[5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

why do you even give these verses to me? these are all about war. which means these verses are all sent during war. in war you fight, if not you and people who depend on you die. Prophet didnot start the war. that's what matters. disbelievers attacked Muslims first. all the verses that given during that process is about self-defense. of course they were strong against their enemy. of course they were compassinate to each other. so? what's you point here? what would you expect them to do? sit down until they and their families getting killed by people who's armed to kill all of them? would you let that happen to your family? if yes, you're one of a kind!

[Moon Monkey]

Why do they use the word unbeleivers rather than enemies. Does that imply all unbeleivers are enemies ?

[lava]

Do female suicide bombers get dozens of male virgins or, like in much of the living islamic world, is it just the men that benefit in this way ?

suicide bombers go to hell, Moon Monkey. not even single one of them enters heaven.

[lava]

Why do they use the word unbeleivers rather than enemies. Does that imply all unbeleivers are enemies ?

no, it doesnot. it implies Muslims who follow Qur'an don't describe anyone as their enemies. someone could be enemy to me but i don't have permission to be his enemy.

i might not love someone who hates me. but void of love is not to hate. it is just an empty space.

[Moon Monkey]

suicide bombers go to hell, Moon Monkey. not even single one of them enters heaven.

True, true, I was being facetious sorry. I wish they realised that. A last question seeing as you know about this stuff but I was looking at verse 9-5 again.

When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.

Was one of the last widely attributed to Mohammed and........

At the time Muhammad spoke the passage he had enough power to dominate and crush the remaining Pagan tribes within the Hijaz, so he used it. He changed the rules and regulations that involved the Pagans. The Pagans did nothing to precipitate this change; they continued to do as they had done for the last year under Muhammad’s rule. But Muhammad used his ever growing power and placed his rough noose of Islam around their necks. Pagans were forced to join Islam or die. This is not self defense.

According to this site (which may be talking balls I would like your opinion before reading everything there)

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/swordverse.htm

Edited January 23, 2008 by Moon Monkey

[hetrodoxly]

how old are you hetrodoxly? 11? 12?

Irrelevant, are they muslims yes or no?

[lava]

True, true, I was being facetious sorry. I wish they realised that. A last question seeing as you know about this stuff but I was looking at verse 9-5 again.

When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.

if they repent. you arenot suppose to pretend you repent. proof is to take prayer.

people who were arrested during war used to become slaves. it was, of course before ending slavery. one of the helpers of Prophet had slaves. his slaves were disbelievers. then one of them repented and started pracitising Islam. later the helper of Prophet set him free. another slave repented and did the same. the helper set him free. then another slave repented and took prayer. helper set him free as well. but the guy who used to be slave, after being set free stopped prayers. helper didnot do anything. yet his slaves kept on repenting. he set them all free. some Muslims warned the helper of Prophet, cos it was obvious they were faking it. many of the slaves faked their repentance. the helper of Prophet didnot care for what they intented to.

Edited January 23, 2008 by lava

[Dog Fish]

[9:122] Nor should the Believers all go forth together: if a contingent from every expedition remained behind, they could devote themselves to studies in religion, and admonish the people when they return to them, that thus they (may learn) to guard themselves (against evil).

[9:123] O ye who believe! Fight the Unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

[48:29] Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds, Forgiveness, and a great Reward.

[66:9] O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell; an evil refuge (indeed).

[4] (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

[5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

why do you even give these verses to me? these are all about war. which means these verses are all sent during war. in war you fight, if not you and people who depend on you die. Prophet didnot start the war. that's what matters. disbelievers attacked Muslims first. all the verses that given during that process is about self-defense. of course they were strong against their enemy. of course they were compassinate to each other. so? what's you point here? what would you expect them to do? sit down until they and their families getting killed by people who's armed to kill all of them? would you let that happen to your family? if yes, you're one of a kind!

I suppose that is one way to rationalize the advocacy of killing "infidels". I also noticed that these verses don't state anything about self-defense. It sound like it is giving permission to, as you said, 'attack out of the blue'. So yes, they are talking of war. A war of aggression.

[lava]

Irrelevant, are they muslims yes or no?

irrelevant?

my reply to you is open enough. i am not here to satisfy your ego.

[lava]

I suppose that is one way to rationalize the advocacy of killing "infidels". I also noticed that these verses don't state anything about self-defense. It sound like it is giving permission to, as you said, 'attack out of the blue'. So yes, they are talking of war. A war of aggression.

those verses don't state anything about "starting" a war. these are commands to follow when you're attacked. no commands are there to attack when there is peace between believers and disbelievers.

[hetrodoxly]

Islam is written in Qur'an. if you say there is death penalty then i would expect you to bring verses. cos i don't care for what people do. people are NOT the real source for the religion. Qur'an is. so bring it up.

Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6:151).

Fasad fil-ardh (5:32).

You believe this is wrong?

Islamic law is based upon four main sources: the Qu'ran itself, the Sunnah or practices of the Prophet Muhammad; Ijma' or the consensus of Muslim scholars; and Qiyas or new case law decided upon by Shari'ah judges.

[hetrodoxly]

irrelevant?

my reply to you is open enough. i am not here to satisfy your ego.

Just as i thought, typical muslim.

[Moon Monkey]

if they repent. you arenot suppose to pretend you repent. proof is to take prayer.

But isn't that catch-22 ? the only way to show repentence is to take prayer....I am presuming that means muslim prayer or will any prayer do ? If not the only way to be repentent is to become a muslim and once you are muslim there is no going back without a death sentence (or is that urban myth as well ?)

[questionmark]

and once you are muslim there is no going back without a death sentence (or is that urban myth as well ?)

You could interpret the " scripture" that way, yes.

[lava]

Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6:151).

Fasad fil-ardh (5:32).

You believe this is wrong?

Islamic law is based upon four main sources: the Qu'ran itself, the Sunnah or practices of the Prophet Muhammad; Ijma' or the consensus of Muslim scholars; and Qiyas or new case law decided upon by Shari'ah judges.

hi,

90% of Muslims arenot following Qur'an. they live their lives according to hadiths and what Imams say. the true religion was lived for 200 years. which means it's not lived by a whole nation nearly 1200 years. except Ottoman Empire.

that verse you wrote: "...except by way of justice and law..." this is not the exact translation. it doesnot say justice and law, it uses one word: "Hak" which means "right", "one's right" or "allowance"

why did you mention it?

5:32?? did you mean this one?

[5:32] On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with Clear Signs, Yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Edited January 23, 2008 by lava

[lava]

Just as i thought, typical muslim.

yes i know there've been killings. murderers are Muslims but surprise! people who arrested them are also Muslims. after killing of Hrant Dink, hundereds of Muslims actually walked with his family at his funeral. Armenians and Muslims together were screaming "we are one" if you really care about what's happening you should know this kind of reactions too.

i've been called many things but none of them is typical