Ask a Mormon

[MissMelsWell]

You know, this thread was created by Bee_Eff so he could answer people's honest questions... it wasn't really intended for a debate and he isn't intersted in debating it. Is there a reason this is being derailed?

[louie]

Why did smith have to talk into a hat to give his story.

[Saraswati]

Are you seriously defending this insane idea?

Are you a Mormon, are you speaking for Mormons when you imply that you think it is possible that Jews came to North America before Scandanavians or Europeans?

No, I am not a mormon, I can not speak for them. I am also not a jew, not a native american. And not a christian. I was discussing the logic upon which your criticisms are built. Is that not allowed?

[Omnaka]

Who is the next Prophet for your Religion, and How is he Picked?

Love Omnaka

[Neognosis]

No, I am not a mormon, I can not speak for them. I am also not a jew, not a native american. And not a christian. I was discussing the logic upon which your criticisms are built. Is that not allowed?

It wasn't a criticism until you moved the discussion to critique. All I want to know, from a MORMON, is if they believe the some Native Americans are lost Israelites, and if so, how do they reconcile that with modern science and archeology?

Any MORMON available to answer that?

[fylgja]

Since the Doctrine and Covenants says not to imbibe in hot drinks, why isn't iced coffee allowed?

Why is is that men in heaven will have multiple wives, but the women don't get to have multiple husbands?

Why do men get into heaven free of charge, but women have to be "pulled thru the veil" by their husbands?

What's the point in Mormon beer (Utah lower alochol content beer) since mormons can't drink anyway?

For every Book of Mormon you give out, how many frequent flyer miles do you receive?

[evancj]

Since the Doctrine and Covenants says not to imbibe in hot drinks, why isn't iced coffee allowed?

Why is is that men in heaven will have multiple wives, but the women don't get to have multiple husbands?

Why do men get into heaven free of charge, but women have to be "pulled thru the veil" by their husbands?

What's the point in Mormon beer (Utah lower alochol content beer) since mormons can't drink anyway?

For every Book of Mormon you give out, how many frequent flyer miles do you receive?

I’m not a Mormon but I live in Utah,

I can say I know Mormons who won’t drink coffee but will drink hot coco. I have never heard that they can’t drink hot drinks; I thought it was more of a no caffeine kind of thing than a hot thing.

I don’t have a clue as to Men pulling, multiple Wives into heaven though veils.

I can say that Mormons are not supposed to drink alcohol or smoke.

As for your beer question (one of my favorite subjects BTW). I think it’s a bit presumptuous to assume everyone in Utah is Mormon. In fact there are more non Mormons in Salt Lake than Mormons. That is why they sell beer and other alcoholic beverages in Utah. Do you also assume everyone in Massachusetts is catholic, or everyone from California is a new age hippie? Just wondering.

“Mormon beer”? I think you are referring to the watered down 3.2 % stuff they sell in grocery stores. Well if this is “Mormon beer” then “Mormon beer” is sold all over the country. If you want the good full strength beer in Utah you must go to state liquor store to get it. It’s no big deal. There are states with much stranger liquor laws than Utah.

[Neognosis]

YOu know, if non-mormons keep answering the questions, it's defeating the purpose of the OP and just adding more potential misinformation.

[evancj]

YOu know, if non-mormons keep answering the questions, it's defeating the purpose of the OP and just adding more potential misinformation.

Sorry but I think I know more about beer than the OP.

[danielost]

Since the Doctrine and Covenants says not to imbibe in hot drinks, why isn't iced coffee allowed?

Why is is that men in heaven will have multiple wives, but the women don't get to have multiple husbands?

Why do men get into heaven free of charge, but women have to be "pulled thru the veil" by their husbands?

What's the point in Mormon beer (Utah lower alochol content beer) since mormons can't drink anyway?

For every Book of Mormon you give out, how many frequent flyer miles do you receive?

it is the caffine in coffee. the hot drinks refer to booze. men will pull wives to heaven and wives will pull men to heaven. We have eternal marriages meaning that your spouse in this life will be your spouse in the next one. To keep the family together the one who gets to the higher plane of glory will pull the rest through to them.

the 3.2 beer is sold in utah because of altitude. No i don't use the stuff.

none.

[danielost]

YOu know, if non-mormons keep answering the questions, it's defeating the purpose of the OP and just adding more potential misinformation.

If the non-mormon get the answers right who cares

[danielost]

So if it is either/or, that means genetic evidence is not required.

As for archeological evidence, if 10 jews arrived in north america and then transferred a tradition to a tribe of natives before they died out, where would you find archeological evidence?

after examining the Book of Mormon you find that this group of people went through Asia.

At least two of the brothers were not righteous people. So who knows how many wild oats they planted along the way.

The church says that they went through Africa but for those of you who have the book in nephi 1 chapter 17 verse one it clearly states that they went east for many years. This may be chapter 16 going on memory here.

East of Israel is Asia not Africa.

[Neognosis]

If the non-mormon get the answers right who cares

Because unless it comes from a Mormon, how would I know if it was accurate?

Are you a mormon?

if so, can you confirm that you believe that at least some native americans are lost isrealites?

[+Sherapy]

why doesn't LDS except responsibility for the mountain meadows massacre???

[+Sherapy]

YOu know, if non-mormons keep answering the questions, it's defeating the purpose of the OP and just adding more potential misinformation.

neo, one doesn't have to be a mormon to understand mormonism..not to mention one on the outside isn't invested or pusing an adgenda .. My best friend is a high priest (mormon)... I know all about it he tells me everything ...Also where one practices mormonism makes a diffenrce california is alot more liberal than Utah....

[danielost]

Because unless it comes from a Mormon, how would I know if it was accurate?

Are you a mormon?

if so, can you confirm that you believe that at least some native americans are lost isrealites?

yes to both questions

[Neognosis]

FINALLY.

Thank you.

Getting information from non-mormons is likely to just spread misinformation.

I don't care if you know someone who is a high priest in mormonism. I don't care what you have to say on the subject if there is an actual mormon who is willing to answer. Coming from a non-mormon, the information is already at least second hand.

Now that I understand that you do beleive that some native americans are lost israelites, how do you reconcile archeology and genetics that say differently?

[danielost]

why doesn't LDS except responsibility for the mountain meadows massacre???

Why don't all Germans take responsibility for the Holocaust.

It was also not completely the fault of the Mormons who committed this awful act.

let me explain if i can. bee can correct me where i go wrong.

The mountain meadows massacre took place during the so called Mormon rebellion. The only problem is the rebellion only took place back east in newspapers.

The president at the time (Taft I think) was convinced by several newspaper articles and some congressmen that the Mormons in Utah were going to rebel against the government. So he sent in troops to put down this revolt.

Because of poor timing on the side of the troops and an early snow storm. The only real action that took place was the burning of a couple of supply trains no one got hurt. and the Mormons then rounding up some blankets so that the federal troops wouldn't freeze to death.

The wagon train involved was from Missouri. With the memory of the mob death of Joesph smith still fresh. The local Mormons thought for some stupid reason that these people might be part of the federal troops or maybe spying for them not sure. They sent a messenger to salt lake for instructions but didn't wait for an answer.

so basically it was bad timing on part of the wagon train, and stupidity on the part of the local people.

as for the military action. both sides won. The federal government was allowed to put troops into salt lake to keep an eye on the Mormons but under the directions of Brigham young. The base was like 50 miles from salt lake. You've seen the base in almost every john Wayne calvary movie.

Edited January 23, 2008 by danielost

[danielost]

FINALLY.

Thank you.

Getting information from non-mormons is likely to just spread misinformation.

I don't care if you know someone who is a high priest in mormonism. I don't care what you have to say on the subject if there is an actual mormon who is willing to answer. Coming from a non-mormon, the information is already at least second hand.

Now that I understand that you do beleive that some native americans are lost israelites, how do you reconcile archeology and genetics that say differently?

after examining the Book of Mormon you find that this group of people went through Asia.

At least two of the brothers were not righteous people. So who knows how many wild oats they planted along the way.

there were also at least three different groups here at one time or another.

one was the group with the turtle ships they got here first.

The other group the first group I have no info on except that they were here. This is in the book of mormon.

Edited January 23, 2008 by danielost

[Neognosis]

after examining the Book of Mormon you find that this group of people went through Asia.

Ok. But there's genetic evidence that squarly indicates that no NAs share jewish dna.

If you would have just said "we believe it simply because we believe it" I would have respected that more.

If these unrightious brothers sowed wild oats on the way, why do no asian people have jewish dna?

Look, you are welcome to believe what you want. If you want to believe that an angel showed Joseph Smith gold tablets in NY and then took them away or something, and that the indians are lost jews, that's your right and I won't deny you that right.

I'm a christian. I recognize that my beliefs have ZERO backing in science or even archeology.

Why don't Mormons just admit the same?

In a way, I feel bad for Mormons. Your beliefs are so different from other religions, and your religion is new and so is under more scrutiny, and it also is contradictory to a lot of science. It puts you in a bad place. As a Mormon, do you ever read your book and read science and think "Wait a minute....?"

I know as a christian I question my faith, and have come to the conclusion that I believe simply becasue I believe, and there is no evidence for my beliefs. Nor do I need any.

However, there is no way in hell I'm voting for someone for president who believes that some Native Americans are lost Jews. I can't trust someone who disregards science so completely to make good policy. I also won't for creationists. It's too much ignorance in my opinion.

Thanks for your time. I find Mormonism fascinating.

[Saraswati]

I found a jewish historian and asked when they thought the first jews arrived in north america, and got a very brief answer, This answer would not please either the mormons or the skeptics.

He said the first historically provable jews to arrive in north america were portuguese jews who were sailors for the first european explorers. And the first thing they did in the new world was jump ship and run away from their masters, because they were horribly persecuted by the inquisition. They travelled to the american west coast very quickly, and they tried to find a new home in the local native population.

I think,

Between then and when the mormons started moving west is more than 300 years, plenty of time for the mormons to find a few indians with slightly jewish customs.

[Saraswati]

Ok. But there's genetic evidence that squarly indicates that no NAs share jewish dna.

By your own previous statement, genetic evidence is not required. You said It is either/or.

Why do some genes flourish and others die out? Because that is the selective breeding of evolution. If the jewish genetic markers never caught on, then they disappeared.

[Neognosis]

I think,

Between then and when the mormons started moving west is more than 300 years, plenty of time for the mormons to find a few indians with slightly jewish customs.

Except there are no Native American indian tribes with jewish customs or ideas, and none with any jewish dna.

By your own previous statement, genetic evidence is not required. You said It is either/or.

No, I asked if you could provide either/or genetic or anthropological evidence. And you can't, because there is none.

Why do some genes flourish and others die out?

It is a real stretch to believe that a population of jews was here and left ZERO genetic material behind, as well as no archeological evidence. A real stretch. But that's fine for you. It's not for me.

I'm fascinated by this. It really is amazing. To you, it is more likely that jews journeyed all the way here and lived here, even though there is zero genetic evidence or archeological evidenc for this, and plenty to the contrary. To me, that indicates it is more likely that Joseph Smith was at best mistaken.

You HAVE to rationalize the evidence away, your entire way of life depends on it. Again, I mean no diserespect, and I support your right to believe as you do. I just find the psychology behind it so overwhelmingly worthy of note and study.

But who am I to criticize? I believe a guy rose from the dead. The only difference is that I'm not trying to support that belief with evidence, as there is none.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Neognosis

[Saraswati]

Except there are no Native American indian tribes with jewish customs or ideas, and none with any jewish dna.

Apparently, the portguese jewish sailors are historically documented fact.

Documented by jewish historians, at least.

You HAVE to rationalize the evidence away, your entire way of life depends on it. Again, I mean no diserespect, and I support your right to believe as you do. I just find the psychology behind it so overwhelmingly worthy of note and study.

I don't have to rationalize anything. I am not a mormon, jew, native american, or christian. I am discussing this because you are using a very convenient broken logic in order to come to a conclusion you want to find.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Saraswati

[SunDogDayze]

I am not a Mormon, and I don't know the High Priest of Mormonism. But I do know how to use Google, and maybe these will help:

Mormons apologize for mountain meadows massacre...

Book of Mormon changed in light of new DNA evidence.

So, check those out and hopefully that will answer some questions, or at least it's a good place to start looking for the answers.