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Lt_Ripley

What do you think religions will become ?

the evolution of religions  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. do you think religions change with time as people change ?

    • yes
      36
    • no
      0
    • don't know
      0
  2. 2. Do you think your personal religion/beliefs will be the same in 10,000. years ?

    • yes
      7
    • no
      22
    • don't know
      7


27 posts in this topic

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Lt_Ripley

I've often wondered about the evolution of religion and religious beliefs. There isn't one that hasn't changed from it's inception in some way.

History has shown than eventually religions and beliefs fall to the wayside or become tangled in new ones..

what do you think ? where will your beliefs be in 10,000. years ? ( assuming man is still around).

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__Kratos__

Religions that don't change and try to fit in will end up being called myths on a large scale like Zeus, Dagda or Odin are today.

I really don't think religions will be the same in 10,000 years simply because there would have been so much growth between now and then that there would have to be changes. Just look how much religions have changed in the last thousand years with the rise of christ and muhammad that have squashed many other faiths in the process and even those religions are constantly changing with new branches and fights over what really is and isn't.

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Raptor

The Christian god will be sat on a page next to Zeus inside a book titled "Ancient Mythology".

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Grandpa Greenman

Predicting what religion is next is like predicting the big change in music. 10,000 years from now I am not really worried about. It probably be the Holy Order of the Cockroaches.

Hey, buy the way Dagda is still kicking. There are still those of us who call to him. And to Zeus, and Oden. :P

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InnerSpace
I've often wondered about the evolution of religion and religious beliefs. There isn't one that hasn't changed from it's inception in some way.

History has shown than eventually religions and beliefs fall to the wayside or become tangled in new ones..

what do you think ? where will your beliefs be in 10,000. years ? ( assuming man is still around).

Hi Ripley,

This is a most excellent OP. :tsu: I was going to start one similar to this, but you beat me to the punch. :D

I said yes to your first question, and no to the second one. Just since I've been on UM, my views about religion have evolved tremendously, and continue to do so. I hope religion and science will someday be friends...fingers crossed, lol. We may never know all the mysteries of the world, and that's cool with me, cuz I think a little mystery adds some spice to life. I don't know if there is a god, I can't prove it one way or the other. I may never know, cuz it's all about belief and faith, and that's ok with me now. Faith gives people hope, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as their faith doesn't bring harm and disgrace to anothers.

I personally believe there is healthy religion and unhealthy religion, but I'm not against religious practice at all. I think it can be very beneficial for the individual, but, imo, it is also something that should remain personal. No one should feel obligated to convert anyone to their beliefs. Religion should be about personal growth and well-being. Again, jmo.

I like what former evangelist, Rev.Michael Dowd shares. I may not completely agree with everything he says, however, his viewpoint is most refreshing, and confirms that religion is evolving. I especially love what he says towards the end, and find it to be very true in my own personal view. I don't mean to offend anyone here and their beliefs, but I wanted to share this because it does show how religion is evolving, and I think it's a very good sign for humanities sake.

As a side note, it is my hope that posting this will not derail the OP and go off-topic, as it is about the "evolution of religion", not "evolution". He's just sharing his opinion, and I wanted to post it. He has definitely evolved in this view points about religion because he is open to what science has to say:

"The Rev. Michael Dowd is preaching a surprising message: Evolution is real and science points to the existence of God.

For the last five years, the author and former evangelical pastor has lived out of a van with his wife, crisscrossing the nation to deliver the good news.

His latest book, Thank God for Evolution, drew endorsements from five Nobel laureates and dozens of religious leaders. With the battle between science and religion at a fever pitch, it couldn't come at a better time. Just last week Texas papers reported that a curriculum director had been fired in October for forwarding information about an evolution lecture to friends and colleagues.

Dowd wasn't always an evolution proselytizer. Presented with an evolution textbook on his first day of biology classes at Evangel University, he stormed out and told his roommate that Satan had a foothold in the Christian school. But after encountering the teachings of Catholic eco-theologian Thomas Berry, Dowd embraced what's known as evolutionary theology.

Wired News spoke with Dowd by phone about science, religion and his belief that "a holy understanding of evolution will usher the world's religions into their greatness in the 21st century."

Wired News: Last week we learned that a Texas science education official, purportedly fired in October for insubordination, was actually punished for promoting evolution and downplaying intelligent design. What do you think of that?

Michael Dowd: Anybody who says intelligent design should be taught on the same footing as evolution is coming from a place that has no legal backing. I appreciate the heart of what intelligent design people are trying to do, but it's a dead-end road. It's not science; it's philosophy.

My problem with intelligent design is from a scientific standpoint. It fails to recognize the revelatory nature of science. Science is uncovering the truth of the nature of reality.

WN: What kind of reception have you received from other Christians?

Dowd: Well, I don't get the opportunity to speak in the most fundamental contexts. Anybody who believes that evolution is the devil isn't going to invite me to their church. Most of my audience is on the moderate end. But there's definitely interest. Three weeks ago I was in the Bahamas with 125 evangelical ministers -- progressive, but evangelical nonetheless. There are people who are quite interested in this. They're finding that it opens up new ways of thinking.

WN: Have you visited the Creation Museum?

Dowd: The first time (my wife) Connie and I went there, we drove in with our big van with the Jesus and Darwin fish kissing on the side. The folks working there kept us in sight, understandably, but they were cordial. Then we went back a few weeks ago ... and they were very friendly.

WN: Science hasn't proven that God exists, so why do you believe in him?

Dowd: Atheists and believers agree that reality consists of nested spheres -- subatomic particles within atoms within molecules within cells within organisms within planets within galaxies. Each nested level exhibits divine creativity -- the power to bring something new into existence that didn't exist before.

That creativity didn't exist at the beginning of time, making everything like a potter makes a pot, but exists through the universe in a nested sense. God, Goddess, Allah -- they're just proper names for that ultimate reality. God is a sacred proper name for 'largest nesting doll.' You may choose to call it by another name. Many people just call it the universe.

WN: So you embrace science, and therefore evolution. But in your book, you commend conservatives who don't. Why?

Dowd: Most conservatives have never been exposed to thinking of evolution except as a chance, mechanistic, godless process.

Evolutionary theology talks about evolution in a way that gives people a sense of purpose as part of something infinitely meaningful. Until conservatives are exposed to that, they should reject evolution. It's our responsibility to find more sacred, meaningful, holy ways of promoting evolution.

WN: How can evolution be meaningful in a personal, religiously enriching way?

Dowd: When I say evolution, I mean the cosmic, biological and human as one sacred story: galaxies, planets, life, human consciousness and culture. When someone feels connected to ultimate reality, and knows themselves to be a part of that, it becomes so much easier to exist with integrity, with love and compassion for the whole.

Evolution helps us understand the challenges of life. Why do we struggle with what we struggle with? Traditional religion says it's the Fall, it's original sin. But from an evolutionary theology perspective, original sin is a way of talking about what we call animal instincts.

Take testosterone: The more a person has, the more a person tends to take risks and think about sex. If people think they have sex on the brain because their great-great-grandmother ate an apple, or because they're fundamentally flawed, then they won't be able to live with integrity. Evolutionary psychology gives us a way of understanding our true nature. It makes it easier for us to live.

WN: Couldn't someone just as easily argue that we ought to obey our base instincts, since we evolved that way?

Dowd: That's where it's important to understand the direction of evolution. When we look at the pre-human world, then at human cultural evolution, we see greater spheres of cooperation, of complexity and interdependence at an ever-wider scale. At first we cooperated with family and clan; then at the level of tribe; then, later on, at the level of the kingdom; and now, at a planetary level. Our list of enemies keeps shrinking, and the people for whom we have cooperation and compassion keeps expanding. Why don't we go act on base instincts? Because it goes counter to this trajectory.

WN: But science is full of arguments and disagreements. It's constantly being changed and revised. How do you avoid having a momentary consensus turn into religious dogma?

Dowd: Religious insights handed down by private revelation have often been understood to be eternal truth. They're more likely than science to create religious wars over divinely revealed truths.

The scientific enterprise tends to nurture humility. Like you say, it's always open to being corrected, being changed -- and there's a certain humility to realizing that one's narrative, in terms of talking about facts, is open to change.

WN: Won't evolutionary theology leave a lot of scriptural truths behind?

Dowd: God didn't stop communicating truth vital to human well-being thousands of years ago, when people preserved insights on animal skins. God communicates through science. Facts are God's native tongue. Who of us would let a first-century dentist fix our children's teeth? Yet every day we let first-century theologians fill our children's brains.

There's a difference between flat-earth faith and evolutionary faith. In flat-earth Christianity, the core insights -- sin, salvation, heaven and hell -- are understood in the same way as when people first formulated ideas. I still value the same concepts, but interpret them in a radically different way.

Source

Thanks again for a fantastic OP. You rock!

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Sherapy

We can see now the collapse of religion, it goes against what is natural and in that can't sustain itself...

It will take its place with the other myths, it already is...

You made a great point of all the systems it is the one that has stayed firm to the original implementation, it actaully prides itself on not changing and not growing....

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Lt_Ripley
Evolutionary psychology gives us a way of understanding our true nature. It makes it easier for us to live.

I really enjoyed your post Inner Space ! thank you. such a good read.

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Cradle of Fish

A change is gonna come, it always does. Religion might fight against it, but it too eventually changes. The only reason why I cant imagine a religion changing is if it destroys the human race.

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Sherapy

Inner space, wonderful, delightful read....I loved what you touched on...Bravo...my dear friend...

i observe relgion to be evolving also, and you bring in a great point we all create ritual and tradition. We do this with our partners, perhaps by going to dinner once a week or spending time with just them we do this with our kids, our friendships we do this naturallly.This is just gonna happen one does not have to be part of a religion to benefit from this and I question any system that is exclusive i think it goes agianst that which is natural to humans anyways and has served to create conflict......children get along with anyone till we condition them not too...... ....

In a odd sort of way I think religion tries to understand this: we are social we automatically set out to connect with others, the misunderstanding is one needs a ready made script to validate communing iwth others and if they see things diffenrtly they are worng and evil........ its in diversity that we grow,its in challenging our beleifs that we gain the greatest insights..so on.......... ....the danger IMO lies when we start to insist that we should all be beleiving the same things, sharing the same the same rituals or else....its in this misunderstanding we have created dogmatic mindsets that can lead to harm.....

the rituals and traditions I have created with my hubby and children are about us and reflect what is unique and delightful to us, about us ....we have no need to use fear or conditions to be what we are anyways....

there defeintely is good and poor quality religion and I see humanity starting to see the difference...

Edited by Supra Sheri

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Doug1029
Predicting what religion is next is like predicting the big change in music. 10,000 years from now I am not really worried about. It probably be the Holy Order of the Cockroaches.

Hey, buy the way Dagda is still kicking. There are still those of us who call to him. And to Zeus, and Oden. :P

10,000 years! How about 10 years?

Teri-bus and teri-Odin

Sons of heroes killed at Floddin...

--Teribus

I still play that tune regularly.

One can observe the evolution of Judaism and Christianity just by reading the Bible. The early God of the OT is probably Baal and/or Seth. Hathor also gets in there and there are references to Tamuzi and the Queen of Heaven (Asherah?), by name. That all changes rather dramatically by the time you reach John of Patmos.

Which religion will survive for 10,000 years and what will it become? That's evolution. Some folks don't believe it.

Doug

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Chauncy

The evolution of religion is definetly an interesting topic.....I always viewed it not so much as the evolution of religion, more that religion is the quirky side effect of the bigger picture......the evolution of mankind, indeed mankinds evolution of awareness, mankinds evolution of understanding nature.

The changing climate of religious adherents and the open challenges of the ways of lore, are more rampant now than ever, this to is a result of mankinds evolution of cognetive awareness of his environment.

We may in fact be molting ....?

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InnerSpace
I really enjoyed your post Inner Space ! thank you. such a good read.

Inner space, wonderful, delightful read....I loved what you touched on...Bravo...my dear friend...

Thank you Ripley and Sheri. I appreciate your comments and feedback very much. :yes:

Edited to add:

This is a very good point Sheri, and I couldn't agree more.

...we all create ritual and tradition. We do this with our partners, perhaps by going to dinner once a week or spending time with just them we do this with our kids, our friendships we do this naturallly. This is just gonna happen one does not have to be part of a religion to benefit from this
Edited by Inner Space

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GIDEON MAGE

By the year 2154, when the "Debacle" happens, the world-wide industrial waste biological disaster, and neither Jesus, nor the Messiah, nor the Maitreya Buddha has come, most of the world will follow the "new" philosophy of Humanistic Theism.

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greggK
I've often wondered about the evolution of religion and religious beliefs. There isn't one that hasn't changed from it's inception in some way.

History has shown than eventually religions and beliefs fall to the wayside or become tangled in new ones..

what do you think ? where will your beliefs be in 10,000. years ? ( assuming man is still around).

Religions, I think, are information systems based on central concepts. The concept itself does not change, it is the ways to demonstrate the concept that change. Buddhism is centered on Buddha; Christianity is centered on Jesus Christ; with Islam, it is Mohammed; etc. In all the ways to demonstrate the concepts have changed in that they have adapted to the age.

The different religions in Christianity have the one central concept. So, in that way I belive the rest of the religions will again become centered on the ideal that they have and maybe the ideal will take on a different form. What country is it that worships the cow? Do you think that they are shaken by the reports of Mad Cow Disease? Or was that an attack on that religion to kill the cow?

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Mr Walker

Certainly religious belief will continually evolve. In my opinion, it will move closer to the truth about the nature of "god' and our connection with him/it.

I actually answered that my personal belief would not change in 10,000 years because; either I would be dead, and wrong and thus not know I was wrong so my belief would not have changed; or I would still be alive, and thus right, :rolleyes: and have no reason to change my belief.

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InHuman

Relegion should change, but by taking a look at Islam you can see it usually dosn't.

Btw dont hate on Odin, he deserves respects..

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Cronus

The more we humans advance technologically and in our intellectual level the more we leave religion and keep our doubts more than our "faith".

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Belle.

Lol 10,000 years is such a long time! There could just as easily be a resurgence of superstition and organised religion.

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Undeadskeptic

In the future history teachers will say, 'Sadly our species was held back by the ancient concept of religon which binded too many people even up to quite modern times."

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MissMelsWell
Certainly religious belief will continually evolve. In my opinion, it will move closer to the truth about the nature of "god' and our connection with him/it.

:tu:

I agree.

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Lt_Ripley
Relegion should change, but by taking a look at Islam you can see it usually dosn't.

Btw dont hate on Odin, he deserves respects..

actually I think the religion of Islam is on the edge of huge change. more seperation between religious belief and living life in reality. If it wants to survive as a religion it will have to more forward because the people are. While terrorists and hate groups may spring up to try and 'save' an old world view , it can't beat the majority that is moderate in the long run. It is the same thing that has changed Christianity over the hundreds of years. Which will still change it.

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Cronus

as long as there's ignorant people and lack of skeptics willing to research there will always be New religions.

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stackofbooks

Religion has ALWAYS been changing as people change. Some doctrines of the Catholic Church have risen while others have fallen; this in turn is due to culture, social change, and differing interpretations of literature or hearsay.

Edited by stackofbooks

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Sherapy
Thank you Ripley and Sheri. I appreciate your comments and feedback very much. :yes:

Edited to add:

This is a very good point Sheri, and I couldn't agree more.

merci beaucoup mon amie...

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Sherapy
actually I think the religion of Islam is on the edge of huge change. more seperation between religious belief and living life in reality. If it wants to survive as a religion it will have to more forward because the people are. While terrorists and hate groups may spring up to try and 'save' an old world view , it can't beat the majority that is moderate in the long run. It is the same thing that has changed Christianity over the hundreds of years. Which will still change it.

Indeed LR...you hit the nail on the head this happens in many groups, they resist change to the point it creates harm for themselves and those around them...this is taught, fear is the bonding glue in most of these mindsets...As one lets go of fear based teachings one lets go of limits natuarlly they just fall away with little effort, I think its a natural process...Fear prevents and limits and seeks, to keep things the same to hamper growth to adhere to the old ways no matter what I feel the outcome of fear is often terrorism ....

we have a fear epidemic IMO....In the US also...

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