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dreamland

Illusion question

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dreamland

I heard a lot of people in here saying that all illusions and tricks done by magicians or illusionists are just illusions.Well,maybe ur right,but i was wondering if anyone in here can figure out ,how this illusion is done? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irzd3668uM8

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Atheist God
I heard a lot of people in here saying that all illusions and tricks done by magicians or illusionists are just illusions.Well,maybe ur right,but i was wondering if anyone in here can figure out ,how this illusion is done? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irzd3668uM8

Special effects... You can do anything on TV.

To be honest I'm not sure cause I'm not a magician.

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Papaver

It's a neat trick apart from the ludicrous prancing of the magician but surely you are not suggesting that any of these things are accomplished using paranormal powers?

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Nucular

Ugh, there's something so corny about those old-school spangly presentations.

Like other posters, dreamland, I'm curious as to whether you actually believe some stage magic is really 'stage magick', or whether you're just after some bean-spilling of magic effect methods ;)

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DfizzleShizzle

Yea, she simply dropped into the box the first time they put the sheet on...Cause you saw that the lid of the box came off when he used the sheet....The second time, she might of been inside the table when they put the fire, cause the table was a little thicker than it should have been...

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darkbreed

I used to practice and study illusions and stage magic before I got into real magic, and it is certainly entertaining and sometimes completely astonishing but I have to agree that most of the time it is just that: illusions.

However, there are probably some stage magicians who incorporate some real Psychic/Paranormal/Supernatural/whatever ability they may be good at to make the illusions seem even more impressing and harder to figure out.

There is a guy, whom I forgot the name of, doing some funny tricks, he do things like telekinesis etc but has explained that is is not a paranormal ability he got, he has simply learned how to control his static electricity or inner energy in a way that affects other objects, and to be able to focus this energy at specific parts of his body. It's some asian guy, as far I remember it is the guy doing the hypno sculptures (which are really hilarious, he uses instant hypnosis on random people in the street and get them up in all funny positions and leaving them there until they wake up all puzzled).

Here is a link to those videos:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=hypn...amp;sitesearch=

Check them out, pretty funny stuff lol.

It seems impressive to get people doing things like that in just seconds, but in reality it is not too hard to achieve if you've studied hypnosis and hypnotherapy and are familiar with instant inductions (you can actually get a person into deep hypnosis within a couple seconds).

Which reminds me of a thought: Is our presidents and other world leaders hypnotized to do and say what they do? It may seem like this if you check this video of Bill Clinton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUWOqqQkTdY

This is exactly how a person in a hypnotic trance look like before performing out whatever suggestions he is given.

Cheers

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Nucular
I used to practice and study illusions and stage magic before I got into real magic, and it is certainly entertaining and sometimes completely astonishing but I have to agree that most of the time it is just that: illusions.

However, there are probably some stage magicians who incorporate some real Psychic/Paranormal/Supernatural/whatever ability they may be good at to make the illusions seem even more impressing and harder to figure out.

There is a guy, whom I forgot the name of, doing some funny tricks, he do things like telekinesis etc but has explained that is is not a paranormal ability he got, he has simply learned how to control his static electricity or inner energy in a way that affects other objects, and to be able to focus this energy at specific parts of his body.

How do you tell the difference between magicians' patter, and people who really can 'control their static electricity' or whatever? It's a standard part of many magic tricks to give pseudo-explanations for the effects they perform: stating that you are flying by aiming your chi through the third chakra, regardless of whether that even makes sense, is going to sound more impressive than drawing attention to the rather uncomfortable wires which are chopping you in half from the crotch upwards. It also serves as a mild misdirection, and adds a little wonder to the performance.

Many magicians attempt to walk the tightrope between patter and outright supernatural claims; some fall right off that tightrope and end up 'doing a Uri', as it were.

So how would you know which is which? And, if there's no way of telling, why would we imagine that any magician, eminent in the 'tricking everyone' trade, does employ paranormal ability, when we know that there are a plethora of methods available to them which will allow them to achieve everything they wish to, only reliably and without the acquisition and use of these unreliable superpowers we hear so much about these days?

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darkbreed

I can't tell you how we can tell if they are using real magical powers / paranormal abilities along with their illusions to make them look more wonderful and amazing. I said it is probable, due to one simple reason, if I was a stage magician I know I would take use of whatever extraordinary ability I could to make my acts more impressive.

And there are stage magicians who are deeply involved with the occult and "real magic" and thus probably implement this into their stage magic, for the reason I just said above.

One example is Franz Bardon, very famous magician in the occult scene, and he was also a stage magician.

Here is some information about him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Bardon

I'm not much into stage magic so I don't know much about the current stage magicians of the world and their backgrounds and what they are into or not, I was just saying it is probable that some of them do implement real abilities along with illusions if they do have such abilities. How to say if they do or not would be pretty much impossible as the illusions these stage magicians can do, without any special abilities other than being good at illusions, is more than impressive at times. And one of the problems is that the real abilities can be duplicated through fake ways such as said illusions to give the impression that they are real - so it is hard to tell the difference.

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Nucular

I suppose to an extent whether such things are 'probable' relies on one's own perspective on whether such things exist at all.

I would note, though, that in terms of evidence, I know some claimed psychics have admitted resorting to magicians' tricks to please the audience (though usually only when actually caught doing so - Uri Geller has admitted this), which would imply that the opposite is true (namely that it's easier and more reliable to rely on sleight of hand than these temperamental powers).

I've also known people jump to the conclusion that a magician has psychic powers even when that magician outright denies it, which I think betrays a certain arrogance stemming from the idea that "I can't be tricked".

Thanks for the Franz Bardon ref, DB, I hadn't heard of him.

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dreamland

So far,noone gave me any good explanation,how this illusion is done.You guys have to understand 3 things.First it been done on live talk show,second the whole box or set up is in the middle of the floor,nothing behind it,on the bottom,and third those two girls appeared within like 2 seconds at the end,and even if they somehow get there from behind,ellen would see it.

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Nucular
So far,noone gave me any good explanation,how this illusion is done.You guys have to understand 3 things.First it been done on live talk show,second the whole box or set up is in the middle of the floor,nothing behind it,on the bottom,and third those two girls appeared within like 2 seconds at the end,and even if they somehow get there from behind,ellen would see it.

Dreamland, you didn't answer anybody's questions as to whether you actually think that trick was paranormal.

I don't think you're going to get a good explanation here as to how the trick itself was done, since even if people here do know the principles behind it, it's not the sort of thing which should just be given away on a message board. There's a ton of information out there on magic, so I would recommend you buy a book or two. I can absolutely assure you that no 'real' magic is involved in the stunt, but if you don't want to take my word for that, I can't blame you (I'm a sceptic, after all). All I can say is, buy a book on stage magic methods. I don't see anything particularly new in that trick, though it's a good (if cheesy) performance.

I warn you though, magic tricks are never, ever as awe-inspiring when you know the trickery behind them. But if you see a magic trick you can't explain, don't immediately think it must be paranormal: magicians are people who are highly trained to trick the senses, and this is all that's happening. I'm not a magician, by the way.

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dreamland

Well,I can absolutely assure you ur wrong,because there is something more then just an illusion.I study magic from the past 10 years,and i probably watched more magic shows,then anyone on this forum.The reason why i do that is because,what most poeple claim about magic,tricks and illusions in here,simple makes me laugh.All thise people who claim that stage magic is just an illusion,and when i asked them simple xplanation,on how this illusion is done,noone talks.I just wanted to add ,that if magic would be that easy,then there would be thousands of David Blaines,Criss Angels,and David Copperfield's.

And i do know,how this illusion is done,and please dont ask me,because i wont respond.

Edited by dreamland

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Neognosis
....The second time, she might of been inside the table when they put the fire, cause the table was a little thicker than it should have been...

Yes, she's mose likely in the table, which appears thicker than it ought to be, and is no doubt even thicker than it appears.

It's a good performance, though.

can't tell you how we can tell if they are using real magical powers / paranormal abilities along with their illusions to make them look more wonderful and amazing. I said it is probable, due to one simple reason, if I was a stage magician I know I would take use of whatever extraordinary ability I could to make my acts more impressive.

Don't be foolish. There are no paranormal abilities.

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bleedingelite
Don't be foolish. There are no paranormal abilities.

Oh snap! He called you foolish!

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Nucular
Well,I can absolutely assure you ur wrong,because there is something more then just an illusion.I study magic from the past 10 years,and i probably watched more magic shows,then anyone on this forum.

No doubt.

The reason why i do that is because,what most poeple claim about magic,tricks and illusions in here,simple makes me laugh.All thise people who claim that stage magic is just an illusion,and when i asked them simple xplanation,on how this illusion is done,noone talks.I just wanted to add ,that if magic would be that easy,then there would be thousands of David Blaines,Criss Angels,and David Copperfield's.

No-one said it was easy - simple does not equal easy. Magic is all in the performance, not the gimmicked boxes and clever mirrors. Performance is not easy, and that's why we're not all magicians. That, and the fact that there are much, much easier ways to earn a living for those who don't reach superstardom.

When you ask for explanations behind commercial magic tricks, you're going to come up against a brick wall. This is because the people who don't know how it's done can't tell you, and by and large the people who do know how it's done won't tell you. You'll have to go out and find out for yourself. That's another aspect of magic which isn't easy.

And i do know,how this illusion is done,and please dont ask me,because i wont respond.

Don't worry, I won't. But that does rather beg the question - why did you start a thread demanding people tell you how a particular magic trick is done, when you already know?

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dreamland

why did you start a thread demanding people tell you how a particular magic trick is done, when you already know?

I already said it.If most of the people in here claims that stage magic is just an illusion,it means there is noting supernatural,and can be explained.And i know for a fact,noone will tell me,,how is done,because its not about illusion.When David Blaine survived without food,just water for 44 days,it was illusion too?And o yeah,people could see him live on internet 24/7.

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Nucular
why did you start a thread demanding people tell you how a particular magic trick is done, when you already know?

I already said it.If most of the people in here claims that stage magic is just an illusion,it means there is noting supernatural,and can be explained.And i know for a fact,noone will tell me,,how is done,because its not about illusion.When David Blaine survived without food,just water for 44 days,it was illusion too?And o yeah,people could see him live on internet 24/7.

Right, so you are saying that the illusion was 'real' magic? That the performer in the video you linked to literally dematerialised and rematerialised his two lovely assistants, and each of their two lovely assistants?

If so, what is the logic you're employing there? Is it along the lines of 'I've looked and looked, very, very carefully, at the footage, and I can't figure out how he did it - therefore it must be real magic'?

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Tiggs

Actually, it is an illusion. A good one, nonetheless, but just an illusion.

Nucular's right, however - knowing how it's done definitely spoils the illusion & isn't the kind of thing that should be posted on forums.

I'll IM my answer to Nucular - see if he agrees with me.

Edited by Tiggs

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darkbreed

I didn't watch the clip until now, and I have to agree its a good trick. But I'm pretty sure on the basics of how it's done, and "good timing" is an important clue here. Also the angles of the cameras I think plays an role here (I'm not sure how the view was from the audience perspective but I'm pretty sure it was set up in a way relating to angles there as well so you can't really see what goes on in the background)

Personally I know real magic exists as I have been into it for some time myself, but I don't think any "occult powers" were used here it's just simply an illusion.

At least Pamela knows how it was done :)

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Neognosis
I already said it.If most of the people in here claims that stage magic is just an illusion,it means there is noting supernatural,and can be explained.And i know for a fact,noone will tell me,,how is done,because its not about illusion.When David Blaine survived without food,just water for 44 days,it was illusion too?And o yeah,people could see him live on internet 24/7.

Don't be an idiot.

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Nucular
Actually, it is an illusion. A good one, nonetheless, but just an illusion.

Nucular's right, however - knowing how it's done definitely spoils the illusion & isn't the kind of thing that should be posted on forums.

I'll IM my answer to Nucular - see if he agrees with me.

I think Tiggs and I are both on the same page about this, and I think Darkbreed probably sees the principles at work there too.

Completely regardless of all of our bickering about whether the paranormal is real or imaginary, to me it takes something away from the skill of the magician to say "aha, that's real magic!"

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darkbreed

Here's a little exposure of an Cris Angel trick.

Here is the video and trick itself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu5c4pUzKJo

And so the explanation:

If you look carefully, you'll see he hides the egg quickly, throwing it backwards with his left hand while showing the orange (I suspect it wasn't a real egg but something made of paper or whatever so that it would be squeezed flat when the orange hit it and either the two guys or one of them are in on it, or he had prepared the eggs already himself without any of them knowing - or he simply switched the real egg in his hand with a paper egg quickly at the moment the two guys were busy looking at the orange and lemon when he asks the boy to chose one, notice his hand movements)

Then to the orange and lemon - obviously he had already prepared these too, and put an egg inside the lemon, and the lemon with egg inside the orage. So, when he asks the kid if he wants the lemon or the orange, it doesnt matter, because he smacks them both together anyway, and secretly quickly hides the lemon so only the prepared orange is left, so the outcome would been the same no matter if the boy had chosen the lemon or orange first, as if the boy had chosen the lemon he would just done it the opposite way and hit the egg with the lemon instead of the orange, and then done the orange on the lemon anyway.

At least that's how I think this was done.

Any comments?

Edited by darkbreed

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2012...

Dumb magicians lol!!

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