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chemical-licker

american soldier throw puppy over cliff

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Papaver

Yes, his intent was not good. It was not evil either. Just a stupid thing to do and shows a lack of respect for an animal, dead or alive.

What I don't understand is the rage tha many here are displaying. It's totally disproportionate to the act that was comitted provided the dog was already dead, which I'm pretty certain by the look of it it was.

If it was alive then it was a truly disgusting thing to do but I'll say it again - to state that he needs to be killed is just crazy, I'd say crazier than throwing a puppy off a cliff.

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*Quinn*
There is no one on this forum who can honestly say that throwing a cricket off a cliff and a dog off a cliff would evoke the same emotional response in you. Its basis is centered squarely on a genetic foundation.

I can say with confidence that every person has squashed a bug and watched the interstitial fluid splash all over the place, at some point in their lives. That is no different than throwing a dog off a cliff. The difference lies in the organism, which in turn causes a change in emotional response due to the dog being closer to our own species than the cricket.

Therefore its a farce to sit here and bash the soldier for throwing the dog off the cliff.

As far as I know there is nothing that indicates insects experience emotions. Dogs and and other animals do however.

I agree about it being ridiculous to bash the soldier, just not for the same reasons you do. Your reasoning on the topic is faulty in my opinion. You are trying to claim that the way in which anything occurs doesn't matter if the end result is the same and that isn't true.

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Cimber
As far as I know there is nothing that indicates insects experience emotions. Dogs and and other animals do however.

False. We do not 'know' that dogs have emotion. Some experiments have suggested this was the case in the areas of depression and learned helplessness however. This is a gross simplification on your part and has to hold under the scrutiny of the ambiguity of the term.

I agree about it being ridiculous to bash the soldier, just not for the same reasons you do. Your reasoning on the topic is faulty in my opinion. You are trying to claim that the way in which anything occurs doesn't matter if the end result is the same and that isn't true.

I am not implying anything of the sort. However, even if I was, the point would be moot because it doesn't hold any relevance to the topic at hand. Would you prefer he stepped on the dog as opposed to throwing it off a cliff, just as you would an insect?

What I am claiming is that there is no fundamental difference between killing an insect and killing a dog in the same manner, but there is a difference because we are humans who experience emotion in terms of how closely another organism is related to us.

Edited by Cimber

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Marda

It's funny how the only mainstream news about the marines is bad and making them look like bad or weak people.

It was obviously fake, unless they strapped a microphone to it... which I doubt.

It's pathetic how people are saying they do NOTHING, while the rest of us our sitting on our asses talking about ghosts and they are watching their friends die.

even if it was real, it's a puppy... the laws are pathetic, and most of them are only enforced because liberals want to expose it for some reason.

Edited by Marda

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LoveSuxLoveIsWar

I would hope that his actions are the results of him going (being) completely insane.

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chemical-licker

U.S. Marine who 'hurled puppy over cliff' is bombarded with death threats

Last updated at 17:04pm on 6th March 2008

The family of a US Marine, who was filmed apparently hurling a puppy into a ravine, have received hate messages and death threats.

The 22-year-old Marine has become a figure of hate after the graphic video of him abusing a dog was posted on YouTube.

Police have been stationed outside the home of the lance corporal who is said to be involved in the sickening footage.

Scroll down for more...

linked-imageSickening: The grinning soldier holds the puppy aloft and then throws it off a hillside

His family have been forced to disconnect the phone at their home in Monroe, Washington, after being flooded with hate calls.

They have also been sent death threats through the post.

The identity of the Marine is thought to have been discovered and posted on internet blogs after his first name was heard on the YouTube clip.

The video has now been removed from the site.

In it, he was seen clutching a black and white puppy before allegedly throwing it into a gully.

The fate of the puppy, who was about eight weeks old, is unknown.

The grainy footage was shot in Iraq and is now being investigated by US authorities and those involved could face court martial if the video is proven to be genuine.

US Marine spokesman Chris Perrine said: "The video is shocking and deplorable and is contrary to the high standards we expect of every Marine. There is a lot of outrage."

Those involved in the incident have been identified as being based in Hawaii.

The Marines returned to their base in October after completing a seven month tour of duty in Iraq.

Friends of the Marine's family said: "The hatred that's gone on towards this family is completely out of control, and I think it's just people looking for something."

"They hate already, so now they're just focusing their hate on this poor family and it's completely wrong."

this is gonna happen if you do silly things mr :yes:

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Papaver

His family don't deserve the threats on their lives and safety. The people threatening him with death are deranged and unstable too. Those threatening his family, who are not even responsible for the Marine's actions, are themselves sick.

I'm astounded at the hate being directed at his family and amazed at the threats of death being made to the stupid, idiotic and cruel Marine.

I often see the judiciary making stupid decisions too but I'm glad you Americans are not in charge of meting out punishments personally because there would be people hanging from lamp posts on every street corner given the reaction I've seen to this event.

People need to get a damn grip on their emotions because they are running out of control and it's as sad and pathetic to watch as the video that started this madness.

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Jeanette

I love all animals and was shocked by the video. I do not feel it is right for his family to be puniched for this video. I did read this just a short time ago about the problem India has with "stray" dogs. Seems there could be a more humane way to handle their situation. I think that poison would be a bad way to go.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Indian Kashmir to poison 100,000 strays

Associated Press Writer

Dar Yasin

Kashmiris walk past stray dogs in central Srinagar, India, Thursday, March 6, 2008. Authorities in Indian Kashmir have begun poisoning stray dogs in an anti-rabies program that aims to kill more than 100,000 dogs in the region's main city, officials said Thursday.

SRINAGAR, India --Officials in Indian-Kashmir have poisoned hundreds of dogs and aim to kill all 100,000 strays in the region's main city - saying the animals pose a risk to humans and make urban life unbearable.

With the world's highest rabies fatality rate, India has long struggled to control its millions of stray dogs, a problem exacerbated by rapidly growing cities and slums.

Animal rights activists vowed Thursday to go to court to stop the slaughter planned by Srinagar city, saying it is an illegal and cruel solution to a problem that could be addressed in other ways.

City officials, however, said they would press ahead.

"These dogs have become a big nuisance and they are threatening humans," said Dr. Riyaz Ahmad, the Srinagar city health officer who is organizing the killings.

"We have placed orders for the poison and then we will launch a large-scale drive. For the time being we are doing it with stocks we have," he told The Associated Press.

Ahmad said so far some 500 dogs have been killed. Asked if officials plan to kill all the city's strays - estimated at more than 100,000 - he said, "that's the target."

While officials have touted the program as an anti-rabies drive, Ahmad acknowledged that with only two deaths from 1,341 dog bites reported in Srinagar last year, it was more about appeasing the public.

"They should have done it earlier; these dogs have made our lives hell," said Shabir Ahmad, a construction worker.

"My son often asks when will I get these dogs killed because he is afraid to leave the house," said Muhammad Hayat Jeelani, a government worker.

Animal activists said they would try to stop the killings.

"We are going to file a suit against the municipal corporation if they go ahead with this, because this poisoning drive will be against the prevention of cruelty act," said Javaid Iqbal Shah, the deputy head of the Srinagar Society to Prevent Cruelty to Animals.

Shah said the poison used, strychnine, was particularly cruel, causing terrible suffering to the dogs.

"It cripples the nervous system and then chokes the animal. It is not a good sight to see these animals die by the roadside. I have seen children cry when they pass by these dying dogs," he said.

The poison, which is left in garbage dumps in pieces of offal, also inadvertently kills other animals, like cows, Shah said.

Shah said he had proposed the city carry out a sterilization program instead but acknowledged that his organization had only managed to sterilize 400 dogs in the last two years.

India accounts for more than 60 percent of the estimated 35,000 annual global rabies deaths, according to the World Health Organization, and stray dogs are often blamed.

In some areas, dogs form feral packs that have attacked people. However, other strays are "community pets," semi-tame animals who are cared for and fed by residents.

Other Indian cities have struggled unsuccessfully to curb the stray problem.

India's high-tech hub of Bangalore called off a drive to slaughter strays last year following allegations that untrained workers were stoning, strangling and beating the dogs to death.

In New Delhi, one city councilor suggested shipping the country's strays to Korea, where dog meat is considered a delicacy.

Other health officials in Srinagar said the city was exaggerating the danger posed by the dogs and could better spend the money on treatment.

"The real problem is that hospitals are poorly equipped to deal with dog bites," said Dr. Saleem Khan, who runs a state rabies clinic in Srinagar.

Khan noted that only one out of five rabies vaccinations needed after a bite were paid for by the hospital. The rest had to be bought privately for about $8.50 - more than a week's wages for many - and with most victims poor children, that was nearly impossible, he said.

China has also grappled with rabies outbreaks that kill more than 2,000 people each year, prompting officials throughout that country to order periodic dog killings.

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nosaM

Another one of those stupid-ass things anti-war losers do to try and help their cause... Know what, if an American is willing to risk his life in a warring country by god who gives a sh** if he throws a dead puppy?

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eqgumby

Sorry, but a normal healthy American soldier does NOT kill a puppy like that. Period. He is obviously imbalanced. This is the opinion of a retired veteran. The military, like all groups of people, has it's share of mentally ill people. This guy is one.

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Papaver

Although not an excuse and more of a reason, does war/combat not do untold psychological damage to soldiers albeit to varying degrees?

The war didn't make him do that but it may well have unbalanced him and ruined his judgement.

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eqgumby
Although not an excuse and more of a reason, does war/combat not do untold psychological damage to soldiers albeit to varying degrees?

The war didn't make him do that but it may well have unbalanced him and ruined his judgement.

I would bet that the only effect the war had, was it gave him the opportunity to do it. I would bet nearly anything that he e was capable of that act before he ever went to war, before he ever joined whatever branch of the service he is in.

However, I am sure that war/combat could have that kind of effect on some people. I just don't think Iraq has that effect on normal men and women of the armed forces.

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RejectedTheNumber

This is simply put, a childish act. Someone could say the war could've messed with this soldier's head, but I see that as an excuse. What does someone expect to see when they're called for duty, palm trees and sandy beaches? The draft is not active, they are signing up through their own free will. If these soldiers can't take it, then they should never had joined. I like to think, even if it is a delusion, the American people still have the right to choose their own destiny.

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Ghost Ship

Even if the puppy was dead already before being thrown what killed it in the first place?

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grither
Yes, his intent was not good. It was not evil either. Just a stupid thing to do and shows a lack of respect for an animal, dead or alive.

What I don't understand is the rage tha many here are displaying. It's totally disproportionate to the act that was comitted provided the dog was already dead, which I'm pretty certain by the look of it it was.

If it was alive then it was a truly disgusting thing to do but I'll say it again - to state that he needs to be killed is just crazy, I'd say crazier than throwing a puppy off a cliff.

Why is it crazy? You don't know what your talking about. I agree with you on vegetarianism but not on that he deserves to live. If the dog was dead no he doesn't deserve to die but if the puppy was alive then yes. If he threw a human child off the cliff I'm sure you would say differently. I respect all life humans too until a human does something like this. If that puppy was truly alive he deserves to fall off that cliff just the same as if he killed another human. If you cannot see that he should be punished by how he treated the dog you must think animals are inferior so a simple year in jail at most will suffice. Clearly even though your a vegetarian you believe humans to be so much better despite killing the dog a simple punishment is fine. Don't give me any of the bull about putting him in jail for a short time or a minor punishment. Punish him as if he killed a human. I hope the scum dies the most horrible death in Iraq maybe karma will get him and he will be shot off a cliff. Justice served.

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Papaver

I have great respect for animal life as demonstrated by the fact that I refuse to eat them.

If you think that animal abuse requires the death penalty I suggest you try to either find a politician that supports that view or you lobby a politician to have the law changed. The death penalty for killing a dog is so disproportianate a punishment that I am finding it hard to write a serious response to you.

What do you feel should happen to people in the US who hunt prairie dogs and other varmints for pleasure?

Before you say they are vermin, have you not seen the problems feral dogs cause in cities all over the world including Iraq?

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Papaver
What you say is very true. I haven't eaten meat in a year I'm only 19 so around 18 I went vegetarian.

I have just realised something. You have stopped eating meat because you think it cruel and unnecessary. You stopped this around a year ago. You think the punishment for animal cruelty should be death.

You'd not have been able to become a vegetarian last year because you'd have been put to death for animal cruelty under your new found and extreme belief system.

You are a very confused person. You will one day hopefully realise that we do not live in a world of absolutes and nothing is 100% black or white.

Thankfully you are young and I hope you are able to grow and change in the coming years. I remember holding extremist views on politics and relgion and many other things in life at your age. I hope you mellow as you age rather than rot and go rancid unfortunately it's not looking too good given your current attitude.

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Obsin
Why is it crazy? You don't know what your talking about. I agree with you on vegetarianism but not on that he deserves to live. If the dog was dead no he doesn't deserve to die but if the puppy was alive then yes. If he threw a human child off the cliff I'm sure you would say differently. I respect all life humans too until a human does something like this. If that puppy was truly alive he deserves to fall off that cliff just the same as if he killed another human. If you cannot see that he should be punished by how he treated the dog you must think animals are inferior so a simple year in jail at most will suffice. Clearly even though your a vegetarian you believe humans to be so much better despite killing the dog a simple punishment is fine. Don't give me any of the bull about putting him in jail for a short time or a minor punishment. Punish him as if he killed a human. I hope the scum dies the most horrible death in Iraq maybe karma will get him and he will be shot off a cliff. Justice served.

That's harsh. Eye for an eye, ey? So you're for the death penalty then ney?

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Jim Riociociocioso Harbis
What do you mean it was fake, you mean it was a puppet.

hes saying its not alive. the sounds were made by him. (the soldier)

post-69017-1204993338_thumb.png

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grither
That's harsh. Eye for an eye, ey? So you're for the death penalty then ney?

Not necessarily for the death penalty it depends sometimes offenders deserve it but I have no sympathy on those cruel to animals. We need harsher punishments for people that are cruel to animals. I once read a story about a teen that put a dog in the oven and got off with a minor punishment. Locally a few guys set a dog on fire and got just 1 year in jail what about all that pain the dog felt being burned? Like I said the same as throwing a child off a cliff. I'm still not sure if it's real or not. If it is and you say that's harsh well maybe he shouldn't have thrown a puppy off a cliff.

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grither
I have just realised something. You have stopped eating meat because you think it cruel and unnecessary. You stopped this around a year ago. You think the punishment for animal cruelty should be death.

You'd not have been able to become a vegetarian last year because you'd have been put to death for animal cruelty under your new found and extreme belief system.

You are a very confused person. You will one day hopefully realise that we do not live in a world of absolutes and nothing is 100% black or white.

Thankfully you are young and I hope you are able to grow and change in the coming years. I remember holding extremist views on politics and relgion and many other things in life at your age. I hope you mellow as you age rather than rot and go rancid unfortunately it's not looking too good given your current attitude.

I love all animals and am friends with them. Back in the old times before factory farming I might have eaten meat. Factory farming and todays standards are sick and cruel compared to the way animals used to graze. I agree with something you said before there are now plenty of alternatives. I'll say it again he threw a defenseless puppy off a cliff I'm not evil but If something happened to him I would not care. I think you would say different if a human child went down that cliff.

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grither
I have great respect for animal life as demonstrated by the fact that I refuse to eat them.

If you think that animal abuse requires the death penalty I suggest you try to either find a politician that supports that view or you lobby a politician to have the law changed. The death penalty for killing a dog is so disproportianate a punishment that I am finding it hard to write a serious response to you.

What do you feel should happen to people in the US who hunt prairie dogs and other varmints for pleasure?

Before you say they are vermin, have you not seen the problems feral dogs cause in cities all over the world including Iraq?

It's different I suppose if the animals are causing major problems. I must say I feel sorry for the prairy dogs but if they have a reason to get rid of them it's different. Now if they were shooting them for no reason other than pleasure then that's another story. You make me cruel. Why kill a innocent dog not doing wrong? I have a close relationship many animals my dog named Iggy is a good friend. When another dog is killed for no reason then I always think what if that was Iggy. I don't expect a death penalty however if this guy got shot I would not care.

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Papaver

I'm pleased to see that maybe you have calmed down and your response to this act of cruelty is becoming more realistic and less emotional. Believe me I understand the anger you felt on seeing this kind of thing. Do not mistake my disagreement with your reaction for condoning the soldiers actions. It's just important to add perspective to any judgement we make upon a situation or person.

You say Back in the old times before factory farming I might have eaten meat but just a couple of pages back you say you stopped eating meat only a year ago? It's great that you stopped paying for animals to be killed for you to eat but it's early days for you yet. Such recent animal eating does not allow you to hold moral high ground but you are obviously heading in the right direction and I bid you well.

It appears you have had some time to think about your feelings on this subject and I always give credit and have respect for those that analyse their attitudes and responses and if necessary make changes accordingly.

Maybe you are more mature than I gave you credit for.

Think before you make statements and you will earn respect. To hold the respect of others is important to me and I think it is to you too.

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Jemimabutterworth
I'm pleased to see that maybe you have calmed down and your response to this act of cruelty is becoming more realistic and less emotional. Believe me I understand the anger you felt on seeing this kind of thing. Do not mistake my disagreement with your reaction for condoning the soldiers actions. It's just important to add perspective to any judgement we make upon a situation or person.

You say Back in the old times before factory farming I might have eaten meat but just a couple of pages back you say you stopped eating meat only a year ago? It's great that you stopped paying for animals to be killed for you to eat but it's early days for you yet. Such recent animal eating does not allow you to hold moral high ground but you are obviously heading in the right direction and I bid you well.

It appears you have had some time to think about your feelings on this subject and I always give credit and have respect for those that analyse their attitudes and responses and if necessary make changes accordingly.

Maybe you are more mature than I gave you credit for.

Think before you make statements and you will earn respect. To hold the respect of others is important to me and I think it is to you too.

'Think before you make statements' can go both ways in your conversation. You judge that person and you know little about them, and then give a little line about respect at the end. I guess you may think you sound like you are teaching them something, but you come off as being a little rude.

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Papaver

I'm judging "Grither" on these remarks so I do know a little something about this person - Forgive me for being "A little rude" but look at what I was dealing with here. My advice was well intended because I see some disturbing things being said by this person. Here are Grithers words on the subject. I hope it illustrates why I may have come across a bit strong.

this soldier should die for what he did.

I would show him and throw him off a cliff

Your a idiot. A dog has feelings too and people like you matter far less then them. Hopefully something will happen you and I can say one less a*****e on this planet.

I agree with you on vegetarianism but not on that he deserves to live.

If that puppy was truly alive he deserves to fall off that cliff just the same as if he killed another human.

Punish him as if he killed a human.

I hope the scum dies the most horrible death

I'll make him suffer horrible pain then throw him from a cliff.

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