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InnerSpace

Does Our Brain/Environment Create God?

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Br Cornelius

Ultimately Lt. Ripley is c orrect, there is no objective proof, and there might never be any.

The only thing we can do is have our beliefs and monitor how those beliefs effect ourselves and our relations to our environment and the people around us.

Ultimately nothing is knowable in any concrete sense, and that applies to all fields of thought. We are trapped inside our brains - just like the man chained in the cave watching shadows and thinking it the whole of the world. The nervous system is the arbitor of everything.

Br Cornelius

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HKCavalier
HK this entire thread is about your kind of experince and many others ...on a personal note I at one time had what is called a OBE, very profound and included a voice telling me the wisdoms of the universe and for a few years i seriously looked at the validity of such beliefs ..

its fun, its "comforting'" boy is iit comforting to think you got the inside scoop and have it all figured out.. but, its also limiting in many ways you can only live and operate within your little security blanket and you will be on damage control always ...the fear will creep in and the doubt for very good reason ..one really isnt questioning they are wishful 'faithing ...."

i love your posts,, i read em all, i actaully think something happened but, science is beginning to explain these sorts of things and they are in our head....on the plus side it lead me to become the crtical thinkier I am .....I put my beliefs on the chopping block and am better for it and really kool with alot of things that I wasn't ....

if you read my earlier posts you will see yourself I bet, my suggestion would be go for it really look at your exeprince and see what it reveals for you......who i am now as to who i was then , no comparison...the person i am now is alot more humble and alot more able to say i don't know because HK noone wants to hear it but, we dont know hun it doesn't have to be hopeless only fair to you....... and the type of inquiry its a good chance we can't....

lady R was you too and she has also put her pet belielfs on the chopping block too .. we still do both her and i ... they have to be able to hold up if they can't they just can't .... no matter how much we one wish they could..... :cry:

Hey Sheri,

Thanks for addressing my post (I'd really like your thoughts if any on my first post in this thread when and if you find the time--I asked a few bazillion questions that I think you might be able to respond to given your experiences). I'm sorry, I'm feeling a little testy today, so if you sense an edge in my reply, please, don't take it to heart. I've been feeling a lot of frustration and frustration can be both good and bad. I perceive an uncharacteristic presumptuousness in your post that belies your humility when it comes to this particular subject. You surely act as if you've got the answer--at least the answer for me. It is a leap you make to say this thread is about my kind of experience. A leap I so far have not found adequate reason to make for myself. I have read every one of your posts in this thread. I read nearly all of IS's (there were a few of the later ones that were discussing matters that didn't interest me much, cell phones, etc). And I've read a lot about TLE over the years. This thread pulls a lot of it together very well and makes me feel more up to date on the subject.

Unfortunately, I find your analysis of what you imagine to be my experiences really off the mark. You construct what amounts to a psychological profile of folks "like me" and I do not see myself reflected in it. Your assessment doesn't scare me though. I have felt some kinship to your way of thinking and your gracious attitude toward others on this board over the years, so our present disconnect makes me a little sad, disappointed even, but it's okay (I had to see it coming, actually). I put a lot of myself into my posts, so I tend to be disappointed when folks don't seem to get what I'm driving at. I've been fielding a lot of misunderstandings in threads on this board of late, so it's been frustrating.

The theme of "comfort" and "security" you associate with people who think as I do, I find particularly alienating. I don't find my understanding of reality to be constantly under attack by events, quite the contrary, so I'm never on damage control. If I were to find myself on damage control, that would be a pretty strong indication that I was fixating on something unreal. Lies tend to fade, while the truth remains. To keep lies from fading one must be constantly propping them up--damage control, as you say. But I have all sorts of doubts, I find myself to be a distressingly ambivalent person a lot of the time. You say "the fear will creep in." What fear are you talking about in this case? The fear that I might be wrong? Why should that scare me? I've been wrong before. Do you somehow perceive fear in anything I've said?

I get it that someone can create a comforting metaphysical world to cover up fears. That's pretty commonplace. We see it every day. But my metaphysical experiences are not within my control for the most part and it's taken years and years for me to get at all comfortable with a lot of it. Stuff happens, as they say. I have an ordering mind and I try to integrate my experiences into a coherent whole if I can. I try to integrate ALL of my experiences, not just the stuff that comforts me, flatters me or reinforces my prejudices. Some of my experiences over the years could be my temporal lobes putting on a show, but not all of my paranormal experiences have been in my head--I've had plenty of witnesses and participants who've seen what I've seen.

Or perhaps you assume that anyone with metaphysical experiences contrary to your own, must be clinging to an illusion. I hope not, 'cause that would mean you and I aren't really communicating at all. :cry:

I used to believe, as hard as a person can believe anything, that I wasn't an incest survivor. As far as I was concerned up through my early twenties, I just had a lot of really bad dreams when I was a kid. I managed to convince myself that I'd had a very happy childhood. Okay, I took it farther than that--I started reading Karl Jung when I was about 10 (mothers, if your children show an interest in reading Freud and Jung when they're ten, something's wrong :wacko: ) and came up with the theory that the oh-my-god horrrrrrible nightmares that I had most nights were "compensatory." I concluded that these terrible dreams were my psyche's attempt to balance what I imagined to be the overwhelmingly positive energy of my waking life. In short, I buried the incest completely. And boy howdy, was that a comforting fiction!

When I started therapy in my mid 20's, the house of cards I had built to cover the truth began to break down. My therapist never encouraged me to believe that I was an incest survivor. That would have been seriously unethical and could have done a lot of harm. The last thing I wanted to believe was that I was an incest survivor and yet my perceptions, my growing self-knowledge and my memories would not allow me to go back to the comforting fiction of my happy childhood.

Now hold it. Check this out: I just said "my perceptions, my growing self-knowledge and my memories." Now, in the skeptical standard of "knowing" none of any of that would suffice. None of that is proof. So, the skeptics here, if y'all are to be consistent in your thinking, must doubt my assertion that I am a survivor of incest. I understand that politeness would prevent most from telling me so, but that doesn't really change anything. I think too, that if I were to play by your rules of knowing, I would be required to doubt the incest until the day I die, or be just another poor unfortunate with only a "pet belief" in incest.

I get it that the skeptics here would likely accept the reality of incest per se as something consistent with the known laws of physics, while experiences of ghosts or demons not so much. So, in that case, relying upon perception, self-knowledge and memory, as I do, would be an acceptable method of knowing if, and only if, the thing so known had already been made common knowledge, or were consistent with present day science. And in that case, you are not defending reality, so much as you are defending orthodoxy.

Perhaps a hundred times in my life I've been able to predict when I or someone else was going to win a prize, as in a raffle. One time, sitting with a crowd of friends in a theatre where a raffle was being held, I stood up and announced "She's going to call my number." I saw the numbers in my mind, and I heard her say them. My friends all watched as I started walking toward the stage. And then she did, she called my number. Other times I've been able to tell that someone else in the crowd is going to win as well and pointed it out to whomever I was with. Mind you, I have never been able to control when or if I'm going to get this information and I have never made a false prediction about this kind of thing. As I say, this has prolly happened about a hundred times in my life. I've predicted all kinds of other things that were about to happen and I have sometimes been incorrect, misread the information, but about this number stuff I've been 100%. Again, I can't turn it on and off at will, but these things have been confirmed by events and by witnesses countless times.

Now, of course, it occurs to me that you might do some armchair psychologizing along about now, and suppose that I "cling" to "my belief" in the "supernatural" as a way to find "some measure of comfort" to mitigate the terrible trauma of my early years. But, really, Sheri, if you can imagine the kind of scorched-earth devastation incest brings to one's life, one's real and unavoidable life, you must understand that no amount of comforting belief is gonna change that. What's gonna comfort you when both your parents (yeah, my mom molested me too--I really hit the jackpot with the genetic lottery) have betrayed the most fundamental trust there is, the trust of the child for the parent? I suppose it's nice to think that I've had past lives and that some of them weren't overwhelmed by this kind of violence and that I may live other lives free of this stuff in the future--but to be brutally honest, it ain't all THAT comforting. These intimations of immortality, so to speak, can't hold a candle to the here and now or even to what happened 40 years ago. Far more comforting is the love of my chosen family, the self-respect I've achieved in leaving that life behind, the beauty of the natural world around me, the sharpness of my intellect and the joy of making art and of writing.

Say I was coming at you with how Blessed we all are and how Gracious God is gonna Reward all His children with Glory and Everlasting Life in the Sweet By-and-By, then sure, you'd be spot on about the "security blanket" and the "fears creeping in." But in the present circumstance, I think you're off base and seriously, I kinda get the feeling that you might be shoring up your own beliefs about your experiences by presuming to know how I feel and what I've known. 'Cause materialism and reductionism can have a powerful comforting and steadying effect of their own, can't they?

Thanks for reading. :)

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Lt_Ripley
Perhaps a hundred times in my life I've been able to predict when I or someone else was going to win a prize, as in a raffle. One time, sitting with a crowd of friends in a theatre where a raffle was being held, I stood up and announced "She's going to call my number." I saw the numbers in my mind, and I heard her say them. My friends all watched as I started walking toward the stage. And then she did, she called my number. Other times I've been able to tell that someone else in the crowd is going to win as well and pointed it out to whomever I was with. Mind you, I have never been able to control when or if I'm going to get this information and I have never made a false prediction about this kind of thing. As I say, this has prolly happened about a hundred times in my life. I've predicted all kinds of other things that were about to happen and I have sometimes been incorrect, misread the information, but about this number stuff I've been 100%. Again, I can't turn it on and off at will, but these things have been confirmed by events and by witnesses countless times.

then you can guess the lotto numbers ?

As an incest survivor myself , who has always remembered something from 7 years of abuse (and had an eyewitness plus others who he preyed on that I didn't know about until taking him to court as an adult , but I was the first to come out) , how does that fit into the subject matter ? We know sexual abuse happens factually. ( and although you remembered * that still may not make it real. plenty of people remember being abducted by aliens , have bad nightmares , ect ...... but never were.) Not all sexual abuse survivors are .

as for spiritual experiences ??? personal , not proof.

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Leonardo
Thanks for the prompt reply, Leo, disappointing as it is to hear that Inner Space may not be around anymore. I gotta say I'm not too excited about sifting through all those links and sources. I've sifted through a good deal of this kind of material in the past and the resulting detail has been discouragingly, consistently underwhelming. But I will check it out. Thank you.

This seeing "what they wished to experience" would certainly apply to the typical lay person, but for anyone with training, this would be difficult to predict as expectation is what needs to be rooted out if real insight is to be gained. Beliefs, expectations, desires, these all need to be cleared from the mind in order to get anything really useful. The ability to clear one's mind in this way takes a great deal of study, training and practice.

The undisciplined mind is extremely uncomfortable looking at nothing and will fill in blindspots where ever they are found. If these technological procedures can open the doors of perception automatically, and there is nothing to see or if one has not learned discernment, then the mind will create a place holder. There is some indication that schizophrenia is a malfunction along these lines; the doors are open but there is nothing out there, so the person sees their own broken psyche reflected back at them and magnified many times. Mystics have used psychoactive drugs to open the doors, but they've had extensive training in discerment so they can get the most benefit from the experience; meanwhile, anyone can get high and have a trip that teaches them exactly nothing.

I hope you can elaborate on the last paragraph of your post, because I don't follow you.

What ethics would lead one to generalize and evade rather than giving a full account of one's experience? As long as one is disclosing one's own experience and not attempting to speak for another person, what ethics could possibly be involved? Do you mean that the visions may contain extremely personal information that the researcher may be uncomfortable divulging, or desire to avoid exploring? That's not an ethical issue. Or is it that the researcher may consider his experience misleading to the uninitiated and so censors himself to avoid giving people "the wrong idea?" That's certainly not ethical either, unless you're talking to children. And suggestible as we may be, don't we need to take a good look at our illusions if we are to have any hope of seeing through them?

HK, sorry to be so long getting back to you. I had to give this a lot of thought before replying.

Talking about how our brain/mind can affect us is a sensitive issue, especially when unwelcome (and untrue) inferences of 'damaged' can be drawn from the discussion. While it is known that 'damage' to our brain (such as scarring from trauma, surgery, chemical ingestion etc) can bring about subjective experiences such as those being described, such 'damage' does not imply the person is mentally unstable, unfit or impaired - but there is a huge stigma associated with any talk or admission of 'damage' to the brain.

Likewise, the physiology of the brain and neuro-chemistry is not identical in all people, and this can also lead to subjective experiences such as those discussed. Similarly, this does not imply mental instability, unfitness or impairment and similarly, there is huge stigma associated with any possibility of brain or neurochemical discrepancy.

This must be very carefully negotiated by those professionals who specialise in the matter.

Then there is the matter of belief.

As has been pointed out so eloquently, belief is in the eyes (or mind) of the believer. While we can state that it is possible to induce 'God-experiences' (and other types of paranormal/supernatural experiences) through altering the state of mind of someone does that mean all experiences are simply an artifact of such an altered state? No, that cannot be proved. It is unethical, in this regard, to deny a person what they believe simply to suggest that it is nothing more than an illusion of neuro-chemistry. Belief is important to many people for many reasons, most of those reasons are beneficial.

It is not unethical to argue that such an experience can have more than one explanation, however.

A lack of lust isn't healthy either though, is it ? That can also be triggered by negative experiences-or does it fall under the other categories.

Hey, MLOR. I don't know if IS is going to be around to answer your question, so I hope you don't mind if I field it for her?

Lust and sex are healthy activities, but it is the reason for pursuing them that is most important. Certainly a lack of lust (or sexual desire) might indicate an underlying issue and discussion/attempt at understanding of what reason this might be should be undertaken either personally or with the assistance of a professional. Obsession with lust and sex is unhealthy, however and, as always, there is a balance to be achieved in such activity.

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greggK

Your body is a matrix of copper wires called nerves with a big ball of these nerves on top. At intervals the segments have synapses that generate the signals sent down and back. At the synapses, the nerve creates photons by the exchange of electrons of ionic atoms. Each of the millions of synapses in your body create a thought, a memory.

1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

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Lt_Ripley
Your body is a matrix of copper wires called nerves with a big ball of these nerves on top. At intervals the segments have synapses that generate the signals sent down and back. At the synapses, the nerve creates photons by the exchange of electrons of ionic atoms. Each of the millions of synapses in your body create a thought, a memory.

1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

????

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greggK
????

And it responds to bioelectric signals that are electrochemically produced. And the negative voltage that each synapse produces creates like a black hole that you can be 'transformed' into by concentration. However, you are dealing with a very positively charged atmosphere that can override the signals.

See, that little ball in between your shoulders has a segment reserved for each organ of your body. There is a stomach area, a liver area, a lung area, a brain area; why there is a skin area, even in your irides. Each organ is represented in the eye.

But the skin is the first barricade you have against the outside world. And it is registered in the outer edge of the irides.

But, if you ask if our environment creates God, it has to be looked at in another way.

Luk 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

The also in that statement divides God and environment. But, when you ask whether your brain creates God, that also must be looked at differently.

That's like saying you can create light with your eyes. Isn't that what creates the light that is in your body; the eyes?

God is light.

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Lt_Ripley
And it responds to bioelectric signals that are electrochemically produced. And the negative voltage that each synapse produces creates like a black hole that you can be 'transformed' into by concentration. However, you are dealing with a very positively charged atmosphere that can override the signals.

See, that little ball in between your shoulders has a segment reserved for each organ of your body. There is a stomach area, a liver area, a lung area, a brain area; why there is a skin area, even in your irides. Each organ is represented in the eye.

But the skin is the first barricade you have against the outside world. And it is registered in the outer edge of the irides.

But, if you ask if our environment creates God, it has to be looked at in another way.

Luk 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

The also in that statement divides God and environment. But, when you ask whether your brain creates God, that also must be looked at differently.

That's like saying you can create light with your eyes. Isn't that what creates the light that is in your body; the eyes?

God is light.

a link to some real science for this please ?

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greggK
a link to some real science for this please ?

What are you talking about? Ask me a question that can be answered. Like, what do you do all day long?

I bet you do just what they tell you to do. And you pay no attention to what the signal is from your body.

Oh, and if you ever in your life get a chance to study books by Bernard Jensen on Iridology, do so.

Edited by greggK

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Lt_Ripley
What are you talking about? Ask me a question that can be answered. Like, what do you do all day long?

I bet you do just what they tell you to do. And you pay no attention to what the signal is from your body.

Oh, and if you ever in your life get a chance to study books by Bernard Jensen on Iridology, do so.

I want a link. to real science. not your opinion , not your word and not some religious site. please.

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momentarylapseofreason
What are you talking about? Ask me a question that can be answered. Like, what do you do all day long?

I bet you do just what they tell you to do. And you pay no attention to what the signal is from your body.

Oh, and if you ever in your life get a chance to study books by Bernard Jensen on Iridology, do so.

http://www.quackwatch.org/search/webglimps...=bernard+jensen

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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greggK

What do y'all do every day besides get circles and and stars and pat yourself on the back?

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=Jak=
What do y'all do every day besides get circles and and stars and pat yourself on the back?

We do wonders in sleep ;) (Dream, imagination, creative, relax, turning off the energy)

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greggK

How much can be learned in 5 years? Those were written in 2004 and before. My experience with Iridology is it works. It is a true practice. I have been around the practice of that for 6 years, working with an iridologist, a master herbologist, and a communications specialist. I am a computer specialist. And we all believe in Jesus Christ. And it is never a dull day when you see what is happening with the people.

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Lt_Ripley
How much can be learned in 5 years? Those were written in 2004 and before. My experience with Iridology is it works. It is a true practice. I have been around the practice of that for 6 years, working with an iridologist, a master herbologist, and a communications specialist. I am a computer specialist. And we all believe in Jesus Christ. And it is never a dull day when you see what is happening with the people.

proof please of it working , and your word isn't good enough... some real science please. not your quack sites.

The majority of medical doctors reject all the claims of all branches of iridology and label them as pseudoscience or even quackery.[3] Iridologists are rarely physicians. Iridology is only studied at private institutions, and it is not taught at medical schools.

Critics, including most practitioners of mainstream medicine, dismiss iridology as published studies have indicated a lack of success for its claims. Clinical data does not support any correlation between illness in the body and coinciding observable changes in the iris. In controlled experiments,[4] practitioners of iridology have performed statistically no better than chance in determining the presence of a disease or condition solely through observation of the iris.

It has been pointed out that the premise of iridology is at odds with the notion that the iris does not undergo changes in an individual's life. Iris texture is a phenotypical feature which develops during gestation and remains unchanged after birth. There is no evidence for changes in the iris pattern other than variations in pigmentation in the first year of life, eventual freckles and variations caused by glaucoma treatment. This stability of iris structures is at the foundation of iris recognition for identification purposes

wiki

Edited by Lt_Ripley

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Lt_Ripley
What do y'all do every day besides get circles and and stars and pat yourself on the back?

we sort the **** from the facts.

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momentarylapseofreason
What do y'all do every day besides get circles and and stars and pat yourself on the back?

Work (I set my own hours) , party about once or twice a month, hang on the beach, snorkle, scuba dive and hike.

I'm on here, instead of staring at the television, like many others do. More interesting. :tu:

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momentarylapseofreason
we sort the **** from the facts.

:w00t::tu:

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greggK

I guess that's a good thing to do. :w00t::D

What do you do after that?

:lol:

You stomp on it!

:lol:

Edited by greggK

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Lt_Ripley
I guess that's a good thing to do. :w00t::D

What do you do after that?

collect cats

linked-image

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OldTimeRadio
And we all believe in Jesus Christ.

Hey, I likewise believe in Jesus Christ. But I insist that my medical providers also believe in Chemistry and Science.

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3rd rock resident alien

Your brain is geared to synchronize with the Sun. It follows the Sun. Your real God.

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Br Cornelius
Your brain is geared to synchronize with the Sun. It follows the Sun. Your real God.

I love your consistency :tu: .

Br Cornelius

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greggK
Your brain is geared to synchronize with the Sun. It follows the Sun. Your real God.

We are suns. Really. The process that makes us act in any way is identical to the process of the sun. Therefore, in our Nodes of Ranvier, which we have about several billion (maybe) of them in our whole body, we possibly can produce the same thing the sun does. We produce heat, for sure. And theoretically we produce light. But, there's one more thing that the sun produces that we have been unaware of and that makes it what it is; the neutrino. If we also produce a neutrino, what would that be called? The spirit of man?

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Lt_Ripley
Your brain is geared to synchronize with the Sun. It follows the Sun. Your real God.

then why do I do better on the night shift ?

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