America drops to #2 Largest Economy.

[questionmark]

i've posted Q whats going on in the EU, but, now, now Q, dont be blaming individual countries for the **** ups, you have to take the good with the bad your all one big happy family Union, now you know, its all for one and one for all, like i've said you cant go singling countries out thats not the EU way, and when the countries i've listed in my previous post join, you'll have more of the same,......... in the EU if one fails you all fail simple, shame it doesnt work the other way around,

Are you trying to say it is not true?

ED: missed part..

So by your logic, if the is some corruption in Dingleshire it is not them but the central government in London? (I know its the governments fault if it is Labour...)

Edited March 16, 2008 by questionmark

[stevewinn]

i've posted Q whats going on in the EU, but, now, now Q, dont be blaming individual countries for the **** ups, you have to take the good with the bad your all one big happy family Union, now you know, its all for one and one for all, like i've said you cant go singling countries out thats not the EU way, and when the countries i've listed in my previous post join, you'll have more of the same,......... in the EU if one fails you all fail simple, shame it doesnt work the other way around,

Are you trying to say it is not true?

ED: missed part..

So by your logic, if the is some corruption in Dingleshire it is not them but the central government in London? (I know its the governments fault if it is Labour...)

the EU like in my quote above says it all, you cant go around blaming individual countries **** ups, its not the EU way, your all in the same boat now come hell or high water,

[questionmark]

the EU like in my quote above says it all, you cant go around blaming individual countries **** ups, its not the EU way, your all in the same boat now come hell or high water,

Which is not true.. money has been withheld from those regions were corruption is rampant. Privileges have been suspended and so on. The same article that reported the non-conformity of the auditing of the EU accounts also states that the same auditors praised the commission for their efforts in stamping out corruption...

But a federation can never be less corrupt as individual states...for which I have some food for thought here:

Britain, the US and Switzerland should rank among the world's most corrupt countries, according to a paper delivered to an economics conference at the weekend. The failure of these and other developed countries to clamp down on offshore tax havens is responsible for more hardship than any corrupt acts by third world leaders, a leading tax expert said.

"I would place the United Kingdom high on the list of most corrupt countries," said John Christensen, formerly an adviser to the Jersey government and now director of the Tax Justice Network (taxjustice.net), speaking at the Economic Geography Research Group conference.

Source

[Pinky Floyd]

Oh please! Let me get the violin out for you! The Europeans hate you?

Yep..Every step we take...I wrote about this before. My friends who made the mistake of honeymooning in Europe proved it.

Oh by the way, if the U.S ever cut itself off completely from the rest of the world, it would go downhill very fast. This is the age of globalisation. NO country can afford to isolate itself from the modern global market or the international system and still keep up. Not even the mighty U.S.A.

Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities. -George Washington's farewell address September 19, 1796

(In other words: Stay away from them..)

Oh yes we could..It would require total energy independence though.

If we had to restructure our economy with a 'new deal' kind of restructuring that took 2 or 3 decades to do..Oh yes we could certainly cut relations (economic and domestic) with most all European and Asian countries right out. Completely. We have the infrastructure in place, plenty of FOOD (we pay farmers not to grow too much crop-to keep the markets up), plenty of resources and people. The economic upturn would be all of the new businesses and factories created to make up for the void, as well as increased trade with the countries on this side of the planet. Granted, some industries would take a beating, while many more upstart industries could take their place. It's large global corporations that would take the biggest hit.

But it could be done..but not over a 5 year period..More of a 25-30..

Edited March 16, 2008 by Pinky Floyd

[chemical-licker]

this is what the big wigs want 1 currency and global domination. 1 power super state. its happening people big time

[stevewinn]

Which is not true.. money has been withheld from those regions were corruption is rampant. Privileges have been suspended and so on. The same article that reported the non-conformity of the auditing of the EU accounts also states that the same auditors praised the commission for their efforts in stamping out corruption...

But a federation can never be less corrupt as individual states...for which I have some food for thought here:

Source

Q, c'mon now, look at the mickey mouse countries in the EU they are corrupt as hell, even worse than the UK, and if you need a link to think otherwise then i dunno we might as well pack up and go home.............it was in 2007 the police raided the HQ of EU commissioners remember these are the unelected shower of sh** that pull the strings,

the commission can praise the EU for their Efforts to try and stop it, is it job done?, no. oh dear, never mind they did make a good effort after all, better luck next time,

and what happens if the Euro gets too strong what happens then? surely exports and manufacturing suffer, i dont know the answer, but if the Euro collapses does that mean the currency in all 15 countries goes down the pan? whats the safety net

[questionmark]

Q, c'mon now, look at the mickey mouse countries in the EU they are corrupt as hell, even worse than the UK, and if you need a link to think otherwise then i dunno we might as well pack up and go home.............it was in 2007 the police raided the HQ of EU commissioners remember these are the unelected shower of sh** that pull the strings,

the commission can praise the EU for their Efforts to try and stop it, is it job done?, no. oh dear, never mind they did make a good effort after all, better luck next time,

and what happens if the Euro gets too strong what happens then? surely exports and manufacturing suffer, i dont know the answer, but if the Euro collapses does that mean the currency in all 15 countries goes down the pan? whats the safety net

Now wait..lets not mix apples with pears here. The people not signing the papers are not members of the commission, but an independent accountancy firm (I don't know any other government that has its accounts revised by independent accountants). This accountant firm refuses to sign not because the commission did something wrong but because some members states had not filed papers as required. At the same time these independent accountants declare that the commission is doing all possible to avoid corruption.

That is the one side of the story.

The other side of the story is that, while the commission was raided, it was the elected members of parliament who were called upon for corruption..... and employing family members.

And job done? Who said that?

Now, the Euro. No matter what the Euro does, the Euro countries do 90% of their business among themselves, 5% with the rest of the EU (remember that not every EU country is eligible for, or wants, the Euro) and the other five percent outside the EU. Any healthy economic system can take a five percent recession.

[stevewinn]

Now wait..lets not mix apples with pears here. The people not signing the papers are not members of the commission, but an independent accountancy firm (I don't know any other government that has its accounts revised by independent accountants). This accountant firm refuses to sign not because the commission did something wrong but because some members states had not filed papers as required. At the same time these independent accountants declare that the commission is doing all possible to avoid corruption.

That is the one side of the story.

The other side of the story is that, while the commission was raided, it was the elected members of parliament who were called upon for corruption..... and employing family members.

And job done? Who said that?

Now, the Euro. No matter what the Euro does, the Euro countries do 90% of their business among themselves, 5% with the rest of the EU (remember that not every EU country is eligible for, or wants, the Euro) and the other five percent outside the EU. Any healthy economic system can take a five percent recession.

ok Q, thanks for the reply, 90% of business amongst themselves. didnt know that. am not going to carry on about the EU in this thread points have been made and it would be a waste of time going over old ground over and over again, but no doubt we'll lock horns in the future over the EU,

[+DieChecker]

Shouldn't Canada and Mexico be included in an North American Union, in order for this to truely be comparable??

Is the EU really accepted as one Nation?? I know the name of the leaders of France, Germany, the UK and Spain, but have not a clue of the name of the leader of the EU. That puzzles me.

[questionmark]

Shouldn't Canada and Mexico be included in an North American Union, in order for this to truely be comparable??

Is the EU really accepted as one Nation?? I know the name of the leaders of France, Germany, the UK and Spain, but have not a clue of the name of the leader of the EU. That puzzles me.

They are not speaking of Europe nor the EU as a whole but of the Eurozone, that is those that have a common currency and therefore common monetary and market laws(in fact these countries all don't have a say about their money, but it is run by an independent reserve bank). But really it is no big trick, we have to remember that in the Eurozone there are countries such as Germany (3d largest economy + biggest exporter worldwide) + France (5th largest) + Spain (8th largest) + 10 other countries among the top 30. That they combined make a hell of an economic power should not be surprising.

ED: The "leader" (if that is the right term) of the EU is a certain Joao Manuel Baroso, chairman of the commission... but he does not lead much.

Edited March 16, 2008 by questionmark

[stevewinn]

ED: The "leader" (if that is the right term) of the EU is a certain Joao Manuel Baroso, chairman of the commission... but he does not lead much.

heres a video of

Joao Manuel Baroso hes the sorry looking figure next to the tart,

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=7

and his commission

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=0

[questionmark]

heres a video of

Joao Manuel Baroso hes the sorry looking figure next to the tart,

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=7

and his commission

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=0

good standup ....

[Atheist God]

Don't believe it'll last for very long LOL

Got that gut feeling on this, besides there is too much corruption in the E.U.

While the EU isn't perfect it is certainly in better shape then the US economically.

As for corruption did you know that corporations now basically run the US government?

[questionmark]

As for corruption did you know that corporations now basically run the US government?

That is only half the truth... but the partial truth is still shocking enough

[stevewinn]

That is only half the truth... but the partial truth is still shocking enough

spill the beans Q, i want to know more, whats the full truth? you cant leave people hanging,.

[questionmark]

spill the beans Q, i want to know more, whats the full truth? you cant leave people hanging,.

Mostly we have to see that politicians are the "second row" when it comes to brains. Sure...good schools maybe but not the material to make it to the top of a large corporation. On the other side that second row seems to be entranced with the people "on the top".

Ever seen how politicians start drooling when invited to say the Opera Ball in Vienna?

Now, the corporations want something from the politicians. No, it is not as sinister as wanting to take over, what is the British (German, French, American) government compared to the CEO position of a multinational. Peanuts.

So these CEOs start sending "counselors" to the politicians. No, not directly...even a politician would notice that... but they can accidentally meet an "independent" expert...lets say in economics. And this expert tells the politician about John Mainard Keynes, about his theories on improving economic policies... but only that part that benefits certain corporations.

They start with tax breaks...and promise new jobs. Some jobs materialize and the next promise is "liberalize the markets" and we create new jobs. If the politician does not do it then there are some layoffs. The politician looses the election and the next will get the same promise, he deregulates the markets and gets some more jobs. So far so good... only they forgot to tell the politicians that in John Mainard Keynes' theory deregulated markets and reducing taxes leads to a chaotic situation in trade...

Which is at the end of the day exactly what is happening in the US right now.

[stevewinn]

Mostly we have to see that politicians are the "second row" when it comes to brains. Sure...good schools maybe but not the material to make it to the top of a large corporation. On the other side that second row seems to be entranced with the people "on the top".

Ever seen how politicians start drooling when invited to say the Opera Ball in Vienna?

Now, the corporations want something from the politicians. No, it is not as sinister as wanting to take over, what is the British (German, French, American) government compared to the CEO position of a multinational. Peanuts.

So these CEOs start sending "counselors" to the politicians. No, not directly...even a politician would notice that... but they can accidentally meet an "independent" expert...lets say in economics. And this expert tells the politician about John Mainard Keynes, about his theories on improving economic policies... but only that part that benefits certain corporations.

They start with tax breaks...and promise new jobs. Some jobs materialize and the next promise is "liberalize the markets" and we create new jobs. If the politician does not do it then there are some layoffs. The politician looses the election and the next will get the same promise, he deregulates the markets and gets some more jobs. So far so good... only they forgot to tell the politicians that in John Mainard Keynes' theory deregulated markets and reducing taxes leads to a chaotic situation in trade...

Which is at the end of the day exactly what is happening in the US right now.

oooh another shower of sh**, dont ya just love the way money rules the world, i mean, people say money doesnt make the world go around but it sure bloody helps if you have a few bob. i heard on the news the other day gold has gone up to $1,000 oz, someone was "panic" buying it, but i missed who it was,

[Atheist God]

Mostly we have to see that politicians are the "second row" when it comes to brains. Sure...good schools maybe but not the material to make it to the top of a large corporation. On the other side that second row seems to be entranced with the people "on the top".

Ever seen how politicians start drooling when invited to say the Opera Ball in Vienna?

Now, the corporations want something from the politicians. No, it is not as sinister as wanting to take over, what is the British (German, French, American) government compared to the CEO position of a multinational. Peanuts.

So these CEOs start sending "counselors" to the politicians. No, not directly...even a politician would notice that... but they can accidentally meet an "independent" expert...lets say in economics. And this expert tells the politician about John Mainard Keynes, about his theories on improving economic policies... but only that part that benefits certain corporations.

They start with tax breaks...and promise new jobs. Some jobs materialize and the next promise is "liberalize the markets" and we create new jobs. If the politician does not do it then there are some layoffs. The politician looses the election and the next will get the same promise, he deregulates the markets and gets some more jobs. So far so good... only they forgot to tell the politicians that in John Mainard Keynes' theory deregulated markets and reducing taxes leads to a chaotic situation in trade...

Which is at the end of the day exactly what is happening in the US right now.

Many politicians have been on the top of major corporations.

For example Dick Cheney used to run Halliburton, isn't it funny how they got billions in no bid contracts and how Dicky boy will likely go back and work for them next year?

Everyone in the White House who started held high positions in various corporations mostly oil corporations.

They pick the candidates, govern elections, control the military, lie, cheat and bleed the US dry for control.

[questionmark]

oooh another shower of sh**, dont ya just love the way money rules the world, i mean, people say money doesnt make the world go around but it sure bloody helps if you have a few bob. i heard on the news the other day gold has gone up to $1,000 oz, someone was "panic" buying it, but i missed who it was,

But gold has not really gone up that much...except in dollars, take a look at how much it increased in euros or Sterling. Maybe a few percent... but hardly something to make an investor holding other currencies jump up and down.

The fact that many commodities are skyrocketing has only marginally anything to do with demand...more with some hedge funds trying to save their dollars before the whole thing yippe-kay-jeehs into the blue yonder.

[questionmark]

Many politicians have been on the top of major corporations.

For example Dick Cheney used to run Halliburton, isn't it funny how they got billions in no bid contracts and how Dicky boy will likely go back and work for them next year?

Everyone in the White House who started held high positions in various corporations mostly oil corporations.

They pick the candidates, govern elections, control the military, lie, cheat and bleed the US dry for control.

Cheney and Rice are more the exception than the rule for politicians... and only the second what I would call the first row...the other just was there because he had good ties to politics.

[AROCES]

...in China...yes....

Including China and other part of the world indeed.

Now why are you so bitter about the Chinese having jobs?

[AROCES]

I think with the dollar staying cheap like this, its just a metter of time before it hurts the gdp of the Euro. its funny how people blame the Iraq war for our debt, can someone please tell us how much debt the E.U. is in. LOL...its more then the U.S. debt vs GDP!!!!!!!! I would much rather live in America then Europe

You are correct that it's simply a matter of time that the weak dollar will benefit the USA as well.

Where do you think Tourist are headed now?

[keithisco]

I think with the dollar staying cheap like this, its just a metter of time before it hurts the gdp of the Euro. its funny how people blame the Iraq war for our debt, can someone please tell us how much debt the E.U. is in. LOL...its more then the U.S. debt vs GDP!!!!!!!! I would much rather live in America then Europe

Debt vs GDP is fixed at 3%, some countries run larger debts, about 3,4% (which strictly speaking is illegal under the terms of accession), but even so , considerably less than the USA debt vs GDP ration

[Caesar]

Debt vs GDP is fixed at 3%, some countries run larger debts, about 3,4% (which strictly speaking is illegal under the terms of accession), but even so , considerably less than the USA debt vs GDP ration

Yes, I'm aware of the rules for debt for the nations in the E.U. now can you please tell me what the debt % of GDP of the E.U. was for 2007?

Edited March 17, 2008 by Caesar

[Bill Hill]

heres a video of

Joao Manuel Baroso hes the sorry looking figure next to the tart,

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=7

and his commission

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=0

unbelievable.