I created a new world religion

[DigitalSentinal]

IronGhost,

Now that you have created this religion and those who have joined are fully indoctrinated, if those who you created this for decide to slowly change this religion so, for example, the gifting/donation of monies is no longer frowned upon would you be happy you had no part to play in the taking advantage of the indoctrinated?

Good point. I'm sure scientists and engineers that played a part in designing and creating ultra high tech weapons aren't fully told what purposes their ideas and expertise are being used for either.

[IronGhost]

IronGhost,

Now that you have created this religion and those who have joined are fully indoctrinated, if those who you created this for decide to slowly change this religion so, for example, the gifting/donation of monies is no longer frowned upon would you be happy you had no part to play in the taking advantage of the indoctrinated?

If that happens, then it will become a religion not of my creating, but the creation of others who changed it, and therefore not my responsibility.

For example, should Jesus be held responsible for the precepts of the Mormom Church?

*******************

Now here’s an addendum to my comments above:

Irish claims that I employed “malevolent” Ouija entities to help create my new religion.

This statement is also manifestly false. In these forums and in my columns, I have published more than 100,000 words of the transcripts of the Quija entities in question.

They are MOMMY, THE LOVE BEINGS, KENTU, VANTU AND !QAXIXQ!.

All those here who have read the words of these wonderful entities can clearly see that none of them are “malevolent.” Rather, they are kind, intelligent, loving, helpful and interested in caring about and helping human beings. The comments of these beings demonstrate their benign and gentle nature.

It’s true that I have yet to introduce all here to !QAXIXQ! -- but I can guarantee everyone that this strange being is anything but malevolent.

!QAXIXQ! Identifies himself as a plant-based life form. Specifically, !QAXIXQ! Says that he a species of vegetable, and not a fruit, or root, or vine. !QAXIXQ! Says his species of plant last existed on the earth more than a million years ago -- and that his species achieve self-reflective consciousness millions of years before that, and then a very expanded form of consciousness.

Perhaps in my next column, I’ll publish a session with the amazing !QAXIXQ!

[DigitalSentinal]

Would he be the lost lost brother of RHSAJJSYU?

For example, should Jesus be held responsible for the precepts of the Mormom Church?

Of course, the main difference here is that Jesus never set out to start a religion. All the dude wanted to do was help people think and relate with those around them a little better. We nitwits are the ones who created 57,000 different religions around him.

Edited March 18, 2008 by DigitalSentinal

[InnerSpace]

Of course, the main difference here is that Jesus never set out to start a religion. All the dude wanted to do was help people think and relate with those around them a little better. We nitwits are the ones who created 57,000 different religions around him.

[IronGhost]

Would he be the lost lost brother of RHSAJJSYU?

Of course, the main difference here is that Jesus never set out to start a religion. All the dude wanted to do was help people think and relate with those around them a little better. We nitwits are the ones who created 57,000 different religions around him.

I think that's debatable. Jesus proclaimed himself to be God -- anyone doing that is creating a de factor religion.

Of course, Jesus claimed to be the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Old Testament and the Jewish tradition. He claimed to be the Messiah. So, in effect, he was couching his activities as the representative of the Jewish religion.

So even if we say he did not intend to create a religion -- he did intend to modify the the existing religion he was a member of -- and that's basically the same thing as creating a new religion. I think it's safe to say that this was his intent.

[Irish]

Ok for the record I am attacking the moral principle behind your project not your personal character. But I will take your advice and suspend myself for about two weeks come august.

Now let’s look at what you are saying here!

•No one has been harmed by my new religion

You have stated yourself that you have no idea why those people who hired you to write this wanted it for. How are you so sure it is not for malevolence purposes? Can you guarantee nobody will ever be harmed mentally, emotional or physically?

•No one CAN be harmed by new religion.

Tell that one to the followers of Jim Jones or Heaven Gate. I am sure they started out innocently enough!

•No one can be forced to join my new religion against his/her will.

Granted, but they can be deceived into accepting it as truth when you have admittedly made the whole thing up.

• No one is required to donate money to my new religion.

No one invests large amounts of money without expecting a return on their investment. Again you do not know the reason you were asked to write this story. So you do not know how they intend to use it.

• Donating money in my new religion is frowned upon.

Then your employer intends to get a return from book sales or services rendered. Again, No one invests large amounts of money without expecting a return on their investment.

• No one is required to obey religious authority figures.

Again you yourself cannot guarantee what these people will do with the info you provided, your part in the deception is completed and paid in full.

• My new religion has no hierarchy, or powerful people.

It seems to me that these people who can afford to fly you around the world and put you up in the finest hotels are very powerful people. Chances are you will never meet the person in charge of the initiative at the ground level.

* My religion makes no false claims.

I will let you answer that one with your own words!

•I have stated my new religion is based on bulls**t.

• Please note, unlike most other religions, my “bible” makes no grandiose claims.

You claim it is inspired by beings from the spirit world via a number of Ouija Board entity intelligences. That sounds a little grandiose to me.

I will not get into what the bible says here because it would derail your thread very fast. We are talking about your piece of work.

• My new religion is just another one thrown on the pile. The only thing that is going to happen when people adopt my new religion is that they will exchange their current religion for my new religion -- and in my opinion -- everyone who adopts the religion I created will probably have his/her life improved.

Other than Scientology which is also an admitted fraud by the author, Most were created because the founder truly believed he/her was spreading the truth and believed that what they were doing for the betterment of mankind. For this there can be forgiveness, as for purposely deceiving others that will become your personal legacy.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I am an agnostic, but even I think creating a religion is shady. Just my opinion.

[DigitalSentinal]

Put it this way Iron: create a religion that demands that scantily clad gorgeous women show up at my doorstep every day and I'll vouch for you.

[Ghost It Notes]

I am truly disturbed. I have to agree with Irish on this. I have enjoyed many of Iron's stories, but this is different. And I hadn't even considered yet what Digital Sentinal said. Whoa. If this is true, perhaps Iron is in a very bad spot. Those people may well want to make sure he keeps his silence. I also agree that even 1B isn't enough to make me do a similar thing. What does it profit a man to gain the world, yet to lose his own soul? ( I know I wrote that incorrectly, but you know what I mean) And yes, it can harm people....they are being drawn away from the real truth. I am very concerned about this. And all of the other "invented religions" out there as well. A lie is never truly harmless.

[IronGhost]

Put it this way Iron: create a religion that demands that scantily clad gorgeous women show up at my doorstep every day and I'll vouch for you.

Can you afford me fee?

[DigitalSentinal]

I'll have my literary agent contact yours. They can work out the details.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I am truly disturbed. I have to agree with Irish on this. I have enjoyed many of Iron's stories, but this is different. And I hadn't even considered yet what Digital Sentinal said. Whoa. If this is true, perhaps Iron is in a very bad spot. Those people may well want to make sure he keeps his silence. I also agree that even 1B isn't enough to make me do a similar thing. What does it profit a man to gain the world, yet to lose his own soul? ( I know I wrote that incorrectly, but you know what I mean) And yes, it can harm people....they are being drawn away from the real truth. I am very concerned about this. And all of the other "invented religions" out there as well. A lie is never truly harmless.

Exactly. Look at how scientology turns regular people into idiots.

[IronGhost]

But there's a distinction, Irish.

My claim of of getting help from Ouija entities certainly me seem grandiose to some -- however, the new religion I created does not make this claim.

Therefore, my new religion makes no grandiose claims.

[IronGhost]

Exactly. Look at how scientology turns regular people into idiots.

You grant me a great deal of power. If I could unleash such power on the world that turns thousands or people into idiots, I would not be an obscure writer ekeing out a middle class living with my keypad -- I'd be working for the Pentagon in Psy-Ops -- or for the CIA.

(Wait a minute -- maybe I was working for the CIA! --- or, gasp! the KGB!)

EDIT: The paranoia builds!

Edited March 18, 2008 by IronGhost

[DigitalSentinal]

Iron, just out of curiosity, did thoughts of "WTF are these jaw clicking [cenosred]holes asking me to do?!" ever pop into your head when you were with them? And BTW, was the chick hot? For a lizzie I mean?

[crtDzyn]

Who's to say other religions that exist in this world weren't established in a similar manner? I think this should make us think twice about what we choose to accept as truth.

I think this also shows religion for exactly what it is, a set of guidelines for life. There isn't necessarily anything supernatural about it.

I appreciate you sharing this with us, Ken.

edit: rethought my phrasing

Edited March 18, 2008 by crtbud

[jpjoe]

How is this online community any different from the followers of your religion?

With all due respect sir, I've lost trust on anything that you say... or write.

[IronGhost]

Iron, just out of curiosity, did thoughts of "WTF are these jaw clicking [cenosred]holes asking me to do?!" ever pop into your head when you were with them? And BTW, was the chick hot? For a lizzie I mean?

Yes, of course. My two primary theories have always been this:

1. This is some kind of Dungeons N Dragons type of role playing game.

2. These people are cultural anthropologists or sociologists conducting an elaborate experiement. Someone will probaby get their Ph.D. for tracing the origins of a religion from it's inception to its progression and growth.

[jpjoe]

Ive done social experiments, and all of them, at some point have to be revealed to the subject/s. If not, then it becomes unethical.

[Irish]

But there's a distinction, Irish.

My claim of of getting help from Ouija entities certainly me seem grandiose to some -- however, the new religion I created does not make this claim.

Therefore, my new religion makes no grandiose claims.

As a journalist you know that the pen is truly mightier than the sword, do you trust these entities enough to bet your children and grandchildren wellbeing, after all the banana wielding aliens may be back for you and you may not have the opportunity to tell them that it was all made up for laughs and money.

If they are willing to pay good money for deception don’t expect them to have the morals not to turn it against you. Remember you are the millstone of this religion and the only one who can expose them, better hope that they aren’t successful with it.

If they had asked you to come up with a recipe for a new drug that could be harmful and knowing full well that someone would be stupid enough to consume it would you accept the payment for the recipe.

Irish

[DigitalSentinal]

If they are willing to pay good money for deception don’t expect them to have the morals not to turn it against you. Remember you are the millstone of this religion and the only one who can expose them, better hope that they aren’t successful with it.

What I was thinking. Big money usually has big expectations - and an even bigger price.

[bee]

Well, personally, if you were really commissioned to create a religion, I doubt you would even be allowed to discuss it, since this forum post would be brought up eventually to connect you to it - and (LOL) you would most likely wind up with several thousand very p***ed off and disillusioned people on your hands.

Or maybe they'd think it was funny and have a jolly good laugh....from what Ironghost has said about

the religion....it makes no claims and people are encouraged to think for themselves. So there doesn't

seem like much excuse for getting all submissive and over-serious about it. (ie The religion that they

chose to 'get into'.)

Now that you have created this religion and those who have joined are fully indoctrinated,

From what has been said...it doesn't sound like any kind of indoctrination is involved....in fact, quite the

reverse..... a religion that encourages people to think for

themselves and accept no hierarchy.....is the opposite to indoctrnation, in my opinion.

Unless giving instructions to think for oneself could be called indoctrination...

Who's to say other religions that exist in this world weren't established in a similar manner? I think this should make us think twice about what we choose to accept as truth.

I appreciate you sharing this with us, Ken.

I agree with what's said above.....

[DigitalSentinal]

Well Iron, looks like another bee has joined the hive. Congratulations.

[IronGhost]

As a journalist you know that the pen is truly mightier than the sword, do you trust these entities enough to bet your children and grandchildren wellbeing, after all the banana wielding aliens may be back for you and you may not have the opportunity to tell them that it was all made up for laughs and money.

If they are willing to pay good money for deception don’t expect them to have the morals not to turn it against you. Remember you are the millstone of this religion and the only one who can expose them, better hope that they aren’t successful with it.

If they had asked you to come up with a recipe for a new drug that could be harmful and knowing full well that someone would be stupid enough to consume it would you accept the payment for the recipe.

Irish

But, and if I can say this respectfully, your comments are ridiculous, if not bordering on hysterical.

My detractors here are assuming I created some dark, eveil cult which is going to rob people of some kind of "vision of truth" which they supposedly already have.

Excuse me, but where are all these people all over the world who are shining with the ultimate truth abut everything? Are they Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Falun Gong?

The fact is, I could not be more pleased with the religion I created -- and in fact -- whenever I see the occasional news report about where a pocket of my religion is being practiced -- I am absolutely elated.

A while back, I was sent an article -- again, from a mysterious source with no return address -- about some people who had set up a practice in Indonesia, and another in Trinidad and Tobaggo -- I mean, it was a great feeling.

Many are thinking so negatively about this -- imagine if some religious fantatic suicide bombers exchange their radical, fundamentalist belief systems for my gentle, self-empowering technique -- certainly -- lives will be saved.

More than anything, that is the likely legacy of this religion -- it will turn people away from fundamentalist belief system -- even if it turns just a handful of people away from mind-control cults or harsh fundamentalist religions -- I'll consider this more than a success.

[IronGhost]

Well Iron, looks like another bee has joined the hive. Congratulations.

I know bee very well, and despite her name, she seems anything to me but a person with a hive mentality. She's a free thinker with an open mind, and does not have a fear-based mentality.

Edited March 18, 2008 by IronGhost