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Irak war is the Germans fault!


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US Officials Accuse German Intelligence of Pre-Iraq War Failures

Five years ago, US troops marched into Iraq, convinced they would find weapons of mass destruction. One threat seemed particularly palpable -- biological weapons produced in mobile facilities. US officials now say the assumption originated in part from bad intelligence out of Germany.

Five years after the US invasion of Iraq, intelligence agency failures in the run-up to the war are once again taking center stage. Germany's foreign intelligence agency, the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), provided the Bush administration with critical -- and questionable -- information regarding alleged mobile biological weapons laboratories, according to former US government officials.

Indeed, when then-US Secretary of State Colin Powell gave his infamous presentation to the United Nations Security Council in February 2003 during which he made the case that Iraq presented an immediate threat to global security, his comments about Saddam Hussein's alleged biological weapons program were based largely on information provided by the BND.

The information, as it famously turned out, was completely wrong -- and it came from one single source, codenamed "Curveball." An Iraqi engineer who came to Germany seeking asylum in the winter of 1999, "Curveball" was ultimately interviewed by BND agents more than 50 times by the summer of 2001 and provided them with detailed information about the alleged mobile biological weapons laboratories.

According to Lawrence Wilkerson, a close aide to Powell at the time, the BND "did not just send their information about Curveball as a chance operation. It was carefully considered what they sent to us, each and every word was weighed very carefully." He continues: "I can’t exclude the Germans completely here from their share of guilt."

Full story, source: Der Spiegel

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:no: the poor ****ing krauts are getting the blame, i dunno, what do you think Q, is your source reliable?
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:no: the poor ****ing krauts are getting the blame, i dunno, what do you think Q, is your source reliable?

Der Spiegel? I wish my people would be as reliable as those guys.

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Ladies and Gentlemen, its the time you were all waiting, the time when the family get 1st degree entreteniment, iiiiitttttsssss....THE BLAME TIME!!!! *Games TV program presentation music*

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i think seeing that the source is reliable, the Germans must be to blame. after all they did bomb our chippies,

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i think seeing that the source is reliable, the Germans must be to blame. after all they did bomb our chippies,

Yeh, but the story has a second part, Joschka Fischer, then German Foreign Minister, warned both Powell and Rumsfeld that the information from the BND is to be taking with a pinch of salt... they only listened to the part they liked.

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Yeh, but the story has a second part, Joschka Fischer, then German Foreign Minister, warned both Powell and Rumsfeld that the information from the BND is to be taking with a pinch of salt... they only listened to the part they liked.

thought that might be the case, :lol: at the end of the day the US or anyone else in the coalition cant blame another country...... we'd of ended up in Iraq one day in the future anyway, not many people know that Britain has fought in Afghanistan and Iraq in the past, (excluding people on UM your all too bright) and here we are donkeys years later back in the place, swings and roundabouts, http://www.britishbattles.com/

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thought that might be the case, :lol: at the end of the day the US or anyone else in the coalition cant blame another country...... we'd of ended up in Iraq one day in the future anyway, not many people know that Britain has fought in Afghanistan and Iraq in the past, (excluding people on UM your all too bright) and here we are donkeys years later back in the place, swings and roundabouts, http://www.britishbattles.com/

Afghanistan was (and still is) necessary...but you don't bugger off a battlefield at half battle to fight another war without a need. And that is what happened. They left enough soldiers to hunker down and show presence and went to Iraq instead of finding bin Laden and hanging him on the next lamppost (head down so it lasts longer).

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Afghanistan was (and still is) necessary...but you don't bugger off a battlefield at half battle to fight another war without a need. And that is what happened. They left enough soldiers to hunker down and show presence and went to Iraq instead of finding bin Laden and hanging him on the next lamppost (head down so it lasts longer).

cant argue with that, :)

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Note to self.....never give an operative the code name "Curveball" if you want honest info......

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I think this is a red herring . Other wise why would Powell and Rice both state in 2001 that Saddam was no threat - ??? it makes no sence .

Powell, 2001: "He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

Rice, 2001: "But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

( if you can read lips the better since picture and audio are off , but it is what they are saying)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsVKDY74C0g

not to forget the fact that Germany and France also wanted nothing to do with invading Iraq. Not because of Oil For Food since America had it's hands in that pie as well . but they knew better.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17891.htm

A Year after the War

The prevailing view in six of the nine countries surveyed is that the United Nations, not the U.S. and its allies, would do the best job in helping the Iraqi people form a stable government. Roughly eight-in-ten in Germany (84%), France (82%) and Great Britain (82%) express this view.

Fewer than one-in-five in any of the Muslim countries surveyed feel the U.S. and its allies are best able to help establish a stable government in Iraq. But in Jordan and Morocco, pluralities volunteer that neither the U.S. and its allies nor the U.N. can do best in helping Iraqis form a stable government (49% Jordan, 34% Morocco). This is consistent with the low regard people in both countries have for the U.N: 73% of Jordanians and 65% of Moroccans have an unfavorable opinion of the United Nations.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=796

so this doesn't make sense . Bush has also wanted to get into it with Iraq long before 911. ( of which again Saddam had nothing to do with)

Edited by Lt_Ripley
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this is complete bs

now that the u.s. government has admitted that they were wrong and that there were no wmds and that saddam was in no way linked to osama bin laden, theyre trying to pass the blame...

dont buy it

the current administration will do and say anything that would support their agenda...

president bush deserves a wmd far, far up his ***... (and dick cheney, a good part of the senate, the cabinet, and condoleeza rice(i know i spelled that wrong))

(edit)

and he only wanted to tussle with hussein because he tries way too much of a suck up to his daddy

Edited by the rebirth
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It's our fault because we allowed it to happen.

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It's our fault because we allowed it to happen.

Ain't my fault. I didn't do nothing... sniff...

Burp It's about personal responsibility...see.

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Ain't my fault. I didn't do nothing... sniff...

Burp It's about personal responsibility...see.

maybe thats exactly the problem. nobody did anything to stop what happened before it did. nobody questioned the government's authority or reasoning for getting us into a war. nobody double checked tentative intelligence and look where it lead us

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maybe thats exactly the problem. nobody did anything to stop what happened before it did. nobody questioned the government's authority or reasoning for getting us into a war. nobody double checked tentative intelligence and look where it lead us

I did, it's just no one seem to give a...**** well apart from the usual suspects.

Besides the anti-war protest crowd seemed to be made up of naive washed-out liberals,

wacky students (going through their leftie phase) and er suspected terrorists.

Evidence?

I rest my case...

linked-image

Stop the war march London

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Ain't my fault. I didn't do nothing... sniff...

Burp It's about personal responsibility...see.

Thats the point.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

American citizens fund and fight the war. The rest of the free world stand by us or watch as the events unfold.

One must take responsibility for their actions and their inactions.

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Sounds like someone in the government just playing the blame game :no: I hope we dont get german and our other allies into this mess.

Edited by ammy
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This reminds me of the old joke about the "four stages of project management", which goes something like;

  • [1] The Initial Enthusiasm

[2] The Dawn of Reality

[3] Panic

[4] Aftermath: the Blaming of the Innocent

Meow Purr.

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You are right Ships, has always, your feline wisdom is right.

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This reminds me of the old joke about the "four stages of project management", which goes something like;

  • [1] The Initial Enthusiasm

[2] The Dawn of Reality

[3] Panic

[4] Aftermath: the Blaming of the Innocent

Meow Purr.

So true. When all else fails, play the victim.

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And here comes the full story:

How German Intelligence Helped Justify the US Invasion of Iraq

By Erich Follath, John Goetz, Marcel Rosenbach and Holger Stark

Five years ago, the US government presented what it said was proof that Iraq harbored biological weapons. The information came from a source developed by German intelligence -- and it turned out to be disastrously wrong. But to this day, Germany denies any responsibility.

If you're looking to hide out from the rest of the world, the grayish white residential block in this southern German city would be a good place to be. Six families live here, most of them with children, and the building blends inconspicuously into the dull suburban skyline. A green toy tractor is parked out front, the bicycles have baby trailers, one of them complete with an American flag fluttering in the breeze. On a mailbox hanging outside the building's entrance, the name Rafed has been scrawled in pale green handwriting -- difficult to read, but decipherable from up close.

There are many the world over who would love a chance to chat with the man whose mail lands in this post box. The US Congress is desperately interested in him, and the White House once even expressed an interest in trotting him out on primetime television. A book has been written about him and Hollywood is currently working on a motion picture documenting his life.

The man's codename is "Curveball." And in an earlier life, he played a crucial role in the geo-politics at the beginning of this decade: He was the man who provided vital "evidence" that ultimately contributed to the invasion of Iraq by the United States and its allies. But that role has since turned into his greatest problem: Everything he claimed to know about Iraq's weapons program, all the proof he presented, was fabricated. His lifeline, though, has yet to be cut: Germany's foreign intelligence agency, the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), remains loyal to their source. They keep him under cover and protect him from uncomfortable questions -- here in southern Germany.

Blown Cover

At first, there are no signs of life from "Curveball's" ground-floor dwelling in the drab apartment building. The doorbell has a bad contact, the neighbors said; you have to hold the button down for a long time. Children’s shoes and men’s sandals are arrayed in front of the door; a German forest landscape hangs on the wall. And then, after a long wait, the door swings open. A stocky man with a full shock of black hair and a stubbly beard stands in the doorway. He is wearing an orange T-shirt and pajama bottoms. Still groggy from sleep, he blinks out at his unexpected visitor. “Rafed?” -- “Yeah, that’s me," he says. It is the moment when Rafed knows his cover has been blown.

In baseball, a curveball is pure deception. It spins quickly, and changes direction, making it very difficult for the batter to make contact. A curveball lures the batter to swing at a ball that is no longer there.

Rafed's deceptions unleashed their full power on Feb. 5, 2003 at the United Nations building in New York City. It was the day that US Secretary of State Colin Powell went before the UN Security Council in an effort to convince the world that an invasion of Iraq was an absolute necessity.

It was 10:30 a.m. local time, when Powell launched into his lecture, and it immediately became clear that he was playing to an audience larger than the UN representatives gathered before him. He was speaking to the world. “Every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources," he said. "These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” As Powell moved through his 76-minute-long presentation, a horror scenario unfolded. Baghdad, he said, was still in pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, including atomic, chemical and biological devices. That pursuit, Powell made clear, was in violation of UN sanctions.

The climax of the lecture came when he told his audience about the mobile biological weapons laboratories -- mini factories mounted on the back of trucks churning out some of the most dangerous diseases known to mankind. That was the "most dramatic" part of the presentation Powell says today.

But there was drama right from the beginning. Early on, the Secretary of State held up a small vial containing white powder -- meant to represent anthrax spores. Saddam Hussein, he said, “could have produced 25,000 liters” of the stuff. Saddam Hussein spins a “web of lies" Powell said and spoke of “one last chance” which Iraq had chosen not to take advantage of. The country harbors a "deadly network of terrorism," he said, and as a result, the world "must not shrink from whatever is ahead."

The rest of this very interesting story: Der Spiegel

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