God's cure for gays lost in sin

[__Kratos__]

Former residents say separation contracts, a ban on physical contact and teachings by an 'ex-gay' are part of Mercy Ministry's attempts to stamp out lesbianism in its flock, reports Ruth Pollard.

WHEN Mercy Ministries says it helps young women with "life-controlling issues", it means in part that it aims to teach them not to be lesbians.

In line with the Hillsong Church's strict doctrines teaching that homosexuality is an affliction that can be cured, Mercy Ministries is keen to ensure there is no lesbianism under its roof. It issues "separation contracts" to young women who make friends with each other and prevents any form of physical contact between residents.

"While I was there, we received much teaching on the evils of gay and lesbian lifestyles," said Naomi Johnson, who spent nine months in the ministry's Sydney house.

As someone with no issues about her sexuality, she was perplexed by the ministry's continuing focus on the issue.

"In particular, there was an ongoing teaching video series by Sy Rogers an 'ex-gay' - now reformed - married Christian," she said.

Rogers - an American who conducts speaking tours on Christianity and sexuality- spoke at Hillsong Church's Sense and Sexuality Workshop in Sydney last September and is due to address its Colour Your World Conference next year.

"Sy will bless you with his insights into identity and the heart," the Hillsong website says.

"Happily, homosexuality can be turned around," Mr Rogers says in a clip of his show, Turnaround, on youtube.com. "Homosexuality is out of tune with religion; it is not what God planned for human sexuality."

On its application form, Mercy Ministries used to ask young women if they had been involved in lesbianism, next to the question on whether they had been involved in prostitution. They changed that in 2006 to ask "have you ever been involved in any form of same-sex relationships?".

Another former resident, who did not wish to be identified, said: "Girls were asked on the application form, as well as in a telephone interview, if they have ever had lesbian or bisexual relationships. They asked if I had

been involved in drug abuse, witchcraft, or lesbianism. They bunched them in together like that."

In the house, residents were prevented from having any form of physical contact - no comforting hugs, no shoulder to cry on - and even though there were three young women to each bedroom, they were not allowed to change clothes if another person was in the room, she said.

More of the article here: Link

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Such hatred and bigotry... One must wonder how they can treat their fellow brothers and sisters like that. The very notion that lesbians can't have self control or are automatically drug addicts is barking mad... And yet this is the type of thing that is pushed out by the church. Such views have no value in a 2008 society based on freedom and human decency.

Edited March 20, 2008 by __Kratos__

[Neognosis]

Man, you know what an environment like that fosters? The HOTTEST gay#####sex EVER.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Neognosis

[churchanddestroy]

Such hatred and bigotry... One must wonder how they can treat their fellow brothers and sisters like that. The very notion that lesbians can't have self control or are automatically drug addicts is barking mad... And yet this is the type of thing that is pushed out by the church. Such views have no value in a 2008 society based on freedom and human decency.

You'd wonder that stuff, but then you realize that this kind of mistreatment of our human brethren has gone on for years and years.

This is plain old unhealthy. Look at Fred Phelps: Thats a perfect example of a homosexual who is so repressed that he doesn't know what to do with himself. Fred needs to find himself a boyfriend.

Repressing your feelings is usually not a good idea.

[SQLserver]

Such hatred and bigotry... One must wonder how they can treat their fellow brothers and sisters like that. hmm.gif The very notion that lesbians can't have self control or are automatically drug addicts is barking mad... And yet this is the type of thing that is pushed out by the church. sad.gif Such views have no value in a 2008 society based on freedom and human decency.

These people are driven to such extremes by fear and hatred.

Almost anything is possible from them!

[Bella-Angelique]

Repressing your feelings is usually not a good idea.

I think repressing is great. We do not need more rapes, murders, thefts, beatings, and pedophilia.

However I just got off the phone from a huge argument with someone because they became enraged when I stated that Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed because of accepting homosexual practices and I could easily prove it. At that time in Sumeria the cult of Irini practiced bisexuality. The temple maidens even cut off one breast and dressed as males on one side of their body and females on the other side. This would have been homo-target central if wiping out homosexuality had been the objective.

It is clear in the bible story that the call for destruction was not because of acceptance of homosexuality, it was because of the acceptance of rape as normal behavior.

It would seem obvious that rape was still so commonly acceptable among all the classes as the centuries rolled by and Sumeria's cult was forgotten, that it was more comfortable for the masses of the guilty to swear that the cause was because of homosexuality. The behavior in the story of Lot's daughters after the destruction and easy acceptance of drunk men having sex with anyone should have also been a big clue to the clueless.

I do not think that homosexuality is healthy normal sexual behavior, but then neither do I consider it an outrageous abomination. It is simply another type of human imperfection to me, one that does not render the person from being a "saint" in all other ways, who should be held accountable for practicing good decent considerate community behavior as much as the next person and not treated as if they are mental defectives incapable of moral, ethical judgment and self-control.

I would rather live with a good homosexual than a bad Baptist for sure, and any fundamentalist who disagrees with me should start learning about their book of ancient history a little more as a historical text and less as an idol of God manifest in the paper (flesh). Idol worship always screws things up.

[Neognosis]

I think repressing is great. We do not need more rapes, murders, thefts, beatings, and pedophilia.

Repression helps cause those things. Not repressing something does not mean DOING what you are feeling. It means acknowledging the feeling and not pretending it doesn't exist. Emotions or urges that are ignored or pushed down instead of being acknowledged and dealt with someday bubble over.

What's unhealthy about homosexuality?

[churchanddestroy]

Repression helps cause those things. Not repressing something does not mean DOING what you are feeling. It means acknowledging the feeling and not pretending it doesn't exist. Emotions or urges that are ignored or pushed down instead of being acknowledged and dealt with someday bubble over.

What's unhealthy about homosexuality?

That it contradicts bronze age literature.

[Cradle of Fish]

It blows my mind that there are heterosexual(supposedly) men in this world who DONT want women to kiss each other.

[crtDzyn]

It blows my mind that there are heterosexual(supposedly) men in this world who DONT want women to kiss each other.

They must fear being called hypocrits.... which would be quite ironic.

[Bella-Angelique]

It blows my mind that there are heterosexual(supposedly) men in this world who DONT want women to kiss each other.

Lesbian does not mean **** for male voyeurs.

[darkmoonlady]

Chalk it up to a continued effort by certain churches to control people. I really do think that it comes down to control of others for not liking what they do. I don't see churches going after so called other sins of adultery, stealing with the same fervor as they do homosexuality. I think recent remarks by that Oklahoma Representative show that its a really warped idea of gays that is causing a lot of this. For some reason certain churches think that gays are out to convert the world to being gay and have this world conspiracy. It's paranoia fostered by certain churches because they need something to rail against. What better way of getting the flock all fired up and ready to cough up money than to have some global gay conspiracy to worry about. Its a sad ploy that unfortunatly leaves gays who want to worship their faith with a choice of never being true to themselves, faking their way through straight lives to be accepted by the church, or just leaving the church altogether. Either way it doesn't make christians look good, it makes them look unable to give the love and acceptance that supposedly Jesus taught.

[Guyver]

This place is evil.

[__Kratos__]

You'd wonder that stuff, but then you realize that this kind of mistreatment of our human brethren has gone on for years and years.

This is plain old unhealthy. Look at Fred Phelps: Thats a perfect example of a homosexual who is so repressed that he doesn't know what to do with himself. Fred needs to find himself a boyfriend.

Repressing your feelings is usually not a good idea.

Though it shouldn't be just toleranted as just another day thing, I think.

Yes, indeed.

I think repressing is great. We do not need more rapes, murders, thefts, beatings, and pedophilia.

In those cases, sure. That has nothing to do with lesbians though.

However I just got off the phone from a huge argument with someone because they became enraged when I stated that Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed because of accepting homosexual practices and I could easily prove it.

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Source - Biblegateway.com

[+Link of Hyrule]

Such hatred and bigotry... One must wonder how they can treat their fellow brothers and sisters like that. The very notion that lesbians can't have self control or are automatically drug addicts is barking mad... And yet this is the type of thing that is pushed out by the church. Such views have no value in a 2008 society based on freedom and human decency.

Just another reason I think Hillsong has it wrong. They are a Charismatic movement, and the pastor (Brian Houston) is an American who brought American-style mega-churches to Sydney. It's about the only mega-church we have in Sydney (and I think only one of two around Australia). Every Sunday is like a rock-concert, and I'd guess most of the people who go to church there go for the feeling (Charismatics are big on that sort of thing). Houston promotes a so-called "Prosperity doctrine" - the belief that the more money you give freely to the church, the more money God will reward you with later. All in all, as you might have guessed by now, I'm not a fan of Hillsong. Their sermons are shallow and have only the most cursory of relations to the Bible.

Many Christians in many other denominations would largely disagree with the view that you can "cure" homosexuals. Though the underlying theme still exists that most believe it is wrong to engage in homosexual acts, but that is not the same as thinking that it can be cured.

Just a few thoughts,

[+Link of Hyrule]

However I just got off the phone from a huge argument with someone because they became enraged when I stated that Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed because of accepting homosexual practices and I could easily prove it.

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Source - Biblegateway.com

"Sexual Immorality" - sex before marriage is sexual immorality. Prostitution is sexual immorality. Adultery is sexual immorality.

"Perversion" - worshipping other gods is perversion. Sexual immorality is perversion (see above for definition)

Yes, sexual immorality also applies to homosexuality as well, but there is absolutely NO INDICATION in this verse that it is homosexual sex, just "sexual immorality". And by its very nature, all sexual immorality is "perversion", as is worship of other gods.

Just something to chew over for a while,.......

Edited March 21, 2008 by Paranoid Android

[WalkingWithFire]

It blows my mind that there are heterosexual(supposedly) men in this world who DONT want women to kiss each other.

I believe this is morally wrong so I would rather not see it. I think men should be with women and anything physically intimate should occur when they're married.

Edited March 21, 2008 by WalkingWithFire

[+Link of Hyrule]

It blows my mind that there are heterosexual(supposedly) men in this world who DONT want women to kiss each other.

If two women who are not Christian (or two men who are not Christian) wish to kiss each other, I'm certainly not going to stand in their way. As a full-blooded male I can fully understand wanting to see women kiss each other. But at the same time, my own moralistic views (based on my belief in God) leads me to the understanding that I should avoid seeking it out and watching it happen. It's called restraint

[Belle.]

"In particular, there was an ongoing teaching video series by Sy Rogers an 'ex-gay' - now reformed - married Christian," she said."

I have to admit looking at the picture of Sy 'no longer gay' Rogers accompanying the article made me laugh. His wife must be one secure (or deluded) lady.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Belqis

[SilverCougar]

bah... so much making sex out to be something evil.

Sex is the best thing next to rum. Wheither you're doing it with a guy, gal, yourself, many partners, married, unmarried, in an elevator..

mmn... excuse me.. m'boy.. who I'm not married to.. just came home...

[Radian]

Another former resident, who did not wish to be identified, said: "Girls were asked on the application form, as well as in a telephone interview, if they have ever had lesbian or bisexual relationships. They asked if I had

been involved in drug abuse, witchcraft, or lesbianism. They bunched them in together like that."

In the house, residents were prevented from having any form of physical contact - no comforting hugs, no shoulder to cry on - and even though there were three young women to each bedroom, they were not allowed to change clothes if another person was in the room, she said.

So, you can physically force someone be right according to whoever/whatever defines what is right. Call it religion, call it a path to the heavenly father...

WHen will these idjuts realize they're doing much more harm than any good-

[Lt_Ripley]

and yet -

romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

John 8.15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man

Jesus affirmed a gay couple.

Michael Kelly wrote of Jesus' attitude towards a same-sex couple as described in Matthew 8:5-13: and Luke 7:2: "One day a Roman Centurion asked him to heal his dying servant. Scholars of both Scripture and Ancient History tell us that Roman Centurions, who were not permitted to marry while in service, regularly chose a favorite male slave to be their personal assistant and sexual servant. Such liaisons were common in the Greco-Roman world and it was not unusual for them to deepen into loving partnerships....Jesus offered to go to the servant, but the centurion asked him simply to speak a word of healing, since he was not worthy to welcome this itinerant Jewish teacher under his roof. Jesus responded by healing the servant and proclaiming that even in Israel he had never found faith like this! So, in the one Gospel story where Jesus encountered people sharing what we would call a 'gay relationship,' we see him simply concerned about — and deeply moved by — their faith and love."

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com/bibl...gay_couple.html

[churchanddestroy]

I believe this is morally wrong so I would rather not see it. I think men should be with women and anything physically intimate should occur when they're married.

I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm alone with my girlfriend

[+Link of Hyrule]

and yet -

romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Context, my friend. Read verses 1-8 and you will clearly see that Paul is referring to the argument about food laws. Some people because of their Faith in God ate only vegetables (as they did in Eden - it was not until after the Fall that meat became food for human consumption), and some were not comfortable deviating from the Jewish food laws from Leviticus (clean and unclean foods, plus foods sacrificed to idols), despite Jesus categorically saying that those laws were fulfilled and eating unclean foods was acceptable (Mark 7). And for these decisions to not eat certain foods, it appears taht some Christians were being persecuted by other Christians for this. Paul addresses all believers and urges them to be considerate. It is summed up nicely in verse 13 - Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. The word "therefore" in Greek is a very powerful word and is used to not only tie up the issue that came before it, but to signify the importance of the next statement. Paul is saying that if someone considers something unclean (food sacrificed to idols, for example), then for them it is unclean. But for Paul personally, he didn't see a big issue with it. But for the sake of those who believe, it is not a vital piece of doctrine, so if it strengthens their Faith to eat vegetables only, then so be it.

You cannot just quote this verse to justify that nothing is unclean unless you think it is.

John 8.15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man

Again, context. The Pharisees are accusing Jesus, saying that his claims of Messiah-ship have no basis because he is the one witnessing (blowing ones own trumpet would be a modern equivalent). But Jesus says "You have no idea where I am going, or where I have been. You are judging me by human standards. I judge no one. But if I do judge, then my judgement is right". He then goes on to expand on the human standards of judging and says that he is witnessing of himself, and the Father is also witnessing, this makes two witnesses, not just one. Clearly, this is not a coverall statement of all forms of judgement, and certainly cannot be applied to any form of sexual immorality. That said, the general principle ("Judge Not") does apply, and even though we may disagree with someone's actions, there should be no condemnation (some people do not see a difference between disagreement over actions and condemnation over actions - "Judge not" refers only to the latter, there is no mention of not being allowed to disagree).

Jesus affirmed a gay couple.

Michael Kelly wrote of Jesus' attitude towards a same-sex couple as described in Matthew 8:5-13: and Luke 7:2: "One day a Roman Centurion asked him to heal his dying servant. Scholars of both Scripture and Ancient History tell us that Roman Centurions, who were not permitted to marry while in service, regularly chose a favorite male slave to be their personal assistant and sexual servant. Such liaisons were common in the Greco-Roman world and it was not unusual for them to deepen into loving partnerships....Jesus offered to go to the servant, but the centurion asked him simply to speak a word of healing, since he was not worthy to welcome this itinerant Jewish teacher under his roof. Jesus responded by healing the servant and proclaiming that even in Israel he had never found faith like this! So, in the one Gospel story where Jesus encountered people sharing what we would call a 'gay relationship,' we see him simply concerned about — and deeply moved by — their faith and love."

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com/bibl...gay_couple.html

So we know with absolute certainty that the servant of this soldier was in a sexual relationship with him. Truth be told, I had not heard of this particular custom, but assuming it is true, it does not mean that ALL centurions had sex with their male slaves, nor does it mean that the relationship with this particular slave and Centurion was anything more than a completely innocent master/slave relationship.

Good try, though

~ PA

[AtlantisRises]

bah... so much making sex out to be something evil.

Sex is the best thing next to rum. Wheither you're doing it with a guy, gal, yourself, many partners, married, unmarried, in an elevator..

mmn... excuse me.. m'boy.. who I'm not married to.. just came home...

mhm. Sex and rum is even better lmao,

I must admit that I have never seen the point in people opposing Homosexuality. Indeed if aas seems likely Homosexuality is genetic then surely anti gay people should let it happen as the gene would eventually breed out if they were allowed to go unchecked.

[__Kratos__]

"Sexual Immorality" - sex before marriage is sexual immorality. Prostitution is sexual immorality. Adultery is sexual immorality.

"Perversion" - worshipping other gods is perversion. Sexual immorality is perversion (see above for definition)

Yes, sexual immorality also applies to homosexuality as well, but there is absolutely NO INDICATION in this verse that it is homosexual sex, just "sexual immorality". And by its very nature, all sexual immorality is "perversion", as is worship of other gods.

Just something to chew over for a while,.......

And it still includes homosexual relationships in it's meaning. Any sexual misconduct is a sin against god and is up for a good wrath of loving god time.