Could Atlantis be under Greenland's Ice?

[Raven1971]

Aren't the ice sheets on Greenland over one hundred thousand years old?

Yes, they are; they're over 120,000 years old, actually, according to core sampling.

[M.A.D CapeBretoner]

this is funny this is the 3rd one in a row on atlantis you guy must miss me.

i siad this before and here it is again may god our father bless you and all for it seems to me all and you are blind to the truth that has been put forth on this web site.

and that started in 06,jan 31 and when the time spane has reached 3 and a half you and all will know much ,much,more.

[jaylemurph]

this is funny this is the 3rd one in a row on atlantis you guy must miss me.

i siad this before and here it is again may god our father bless you and all for it seems to me all and you are blind to the truth that has been put forth on this web site.

and that started in 06,jan 31 and when the time spane has reached 3 and a half you and all will know much ,much,more.

...MAD, you go through a whole post without mentioning Cape Breton Island is Atlantis. Are you feeling okay?

--Jaylemurph

[M.A.D CapeBretoner]

i didn't have to you did and i thank you .

owe i feel good and you.

[jaylemurph]

i didn't have to you did and i thank you .

owe i feel good and you.

I will say that you've convinced me that if Atlantis is anywhere, it's Cape Breton.

--Jaylemurph

edit: grammar

Edited April 4, 2008 by jaylemurph

[The Puzzler]

I'll tell you where Atlantis is - I can't stand this anymore.

GEOGRAPHICALLY Atlantis is in the Crimea. If you follow history and all information you will come to that place yourself, once I did that, there is a lot of evidence that this is where it is. Kerch, to be exact on Mithridat Hill. You only have to look at the history of the Black Sea, that it was a lake, rising of the seawaters to a Sea, which the Black Sea has some unusual qualities from this event, the Strait that leads out of it, the Bosphorus is where the water flooded in. Now look at the shape of the Peninsular, if you look at the Black Sea as the main sea mentioned in Plato and the Straits of Hercules as the Bosphorus Strait, the island outside it would be Crimea. It is only joined by a narrow land bridge to Ukraine, it very well could have been a complete island at any time during these rising and falling waters when the Black Sea was born from a freshwater lake.

Evidence of people there since 8000BC and quite an advanced people too for the time, the Greeks called it Tauri.

I got there by following many clues of Tantalis (Atlantis acronym), Solon's visit with King Croesus in Lydia, (which is the moral as well as some description of the richness of the palaces)the flooding of the Black Sea, Tauri legend has it the first humans came from Tauri (Atlantis) , it makes sense when you read up on all these things. See, Plato has mixed a story of true events as he states, but hidden in a story that is parts of many stories, one being Solon's actual life, the virtuous, as well as moral lessons through Solon's life such as the story he told to Croesus, which humbled Croesus in the end after his defeat by the Persians.

PHILOSOPHICALLY I can find endless links to Plato's riddle of what makes us a wise and virtuous person through humbleness and redemption, parallels to many Bible stories, explanation of the 10 plagues of Egypt, the Flood and pretty much everything that is applicable to Atlantis, even down to the earliest men springing up from Tauri. You have to look at everything as a riddle. At the same time it does indeed seem to be a historic account of man from primordal beginnings. (from Atlantis) Tauri. But it's not just this story that makes up Plato's narrative.

Regarding 'what makes a man happy?' here's one I found: (because that's what Plato is asking us as well as other questions)

Let's look at this sentence by Plato: Tell us, said the other, the whole story, and how and from whom Solon heard this veritable tradition.

Let's look at what Solon told Croesus when asked who thehappiest man he ever knew was, (if it wasn't the rich and powerful King Croesus of Lydia)

Solon replied: "Yes, I have, and that was Tellus, a citizen of Athens. He was an honest man who left his children well provided for and with good will in the city. He lived to see grandchildren by his sons. Then he died gloriously, fighting for his country."

Tellus........is the happiest man..according to Solon - these clues are not in there by accident. I have a whole thread of these clues about Solon...

Afterwards, King Croesus was defeated by King Cyrus of Persia. Croesus lost his kingdom and was taken prisoner. He was tied to a stake, and was about to be burned alive for the amusement of Cyrus, when Croesus cried out Solon's name three times. Cyrus stopped the proceedings and asked Croesus whether this Solon was a man or one of the gods. Croesus answered: "He was one of the wise men of Greece, whom I invited to my palace. Not that I might learn anything, but so that he might witness my good fortune at that time. The loss of it now is more painful than its enjoyment was pleasant. My riches were really only words and opinion, and now they have brought me to be burned at the stake. Solon saw me in my foolish prosperity and foresaw my present misery. He warned me that I should consider the end of my life, and not boast on slippery ground, since no man is happy until he has died well." Cyrus saw the teaching of Solon confirmed by such a notable example. He released Croesus and kept him at his court as one of his most honored counselors.

HISTORICALLY The 'declination of the Heavens' can be explained by the melting of glaciers during the end of the Ice Age that once melted took enormous weight off the continental shelf (Europe) and it lifted or tilted up. The whole history of man is woven into the work from his Creation in Timaeus then man's primordal beginnings at Tauri.

The (Black) sea was navigable in those days....before the flood, that was when it became 'inhospitable'. History does show us that this is the place of Atlantis. Do the research and try to refute it, you can't.

Links to Wiki and Googling info can give all the information you just need to follow the history...Solon, Solon the Lawmaker is a brilliant reference, Herodotus histories are essential to read, matching Plato with historic events - Croesus, Lydia, Sardis, Georgia, Black Sea, Bosphorus Straits, Crimean history at Kerch, Greek Corinth and Peloponnese War, Persian War and of course, Plato's Timeaus and Critias.

Edited April 4, 2008 by weareallsuckers

[Egyptian-Illuminati]

GEOGRAPHICALLY Atlantis is in the Crimea.

No, where is your proof. Is there any relations at all from Plato that its in the black sea? It was stated "Atlantic Ocean", and therefore Atlantis and Atlanteans.

I do not for a second believe Atlantis is under the black sea...... i do however believe there are sunken cities.

[Raven1971]

No, where is your proof. Is there any relations at all from Plato that its in the black sea? It was stated "Atlantic Ocean", and therefore Atlantis and Atlanteans.

I do not for a second believe Atlantis is under the black sea...... i do however believe there are sunken cities.

Yes, actually, there is an account from Plato stating that it could be the Black Sea; however, one must observe the tale of Atlantis from an emic point of view (ie from within the cultural context of the ancient Greeks). To the Greeks, the "ocean" was a great river that encircled the world - in other words, the "known" world. So, to them, beyond the Dardenelles, the Black Sea was indeed in the "ocean" - and as the only "ocean" they knew was the one named after Atlas, the Black Sea was, indeed, the Atlantic - and it was beyond the Pillars of Hercules, no matter which way you sailed past them, the river would eventually come round.

Raven

[keithisco]

name='Raven1971' date='Apr 4 2008, 10:22 PM' post='2230196']

Yes, actually, there is an account from Plato stating that it could be the Black Sea;

Can you tell us where in Timaeus or Critias the black is mentioned as being the Atlantic?

however, one must observe the tale of Atlantis from an emic point of view (ie from within the cultural context of the ancient Greeks). To the Greeks, the "ocean" was a great river that encircled the world - in other words, the "known" world. So, to them, beyond the Dardenelles, the Black Sea was indeed in the "ocean" - and as the only "ocean" they knew was the one named after Atlas, the Black Sea was, indeed, the Atlantic - and it was beyond the Pillars of Hercules, no matter which way you sailed past them, the river would eventually come round.

So... are you saying that the Greeks were completely unaware of the Black Sea settlements, and that as such they were unaware of the Black Sea being landlocked?

[Raven1971]

Can you tell us where in Timaeus or Critias the black is mentioned as being the Atlantic?

So... are you saying that the Greeks were completely unaware of the Black Sea settlements, and that as such they were unaware of the Black Sea being landlocked?

I never said that it was directly mentioned; I simply implied that in his repetition of a story (Plato's isn't the original account, after all), he might have used the original context, rather than the conventional, from a time before the Greeks were aware of the Black Sea being landlocked - from a time when their "known world" might have considered the Black Sea as merely being the far extreme of the river that circled the world.

[jaylemurph]

Yes, actually, there is an account from Plato stating that it could be the Black Sea; however, one must observe the tale of Atlantis from an emic point of view (ie from within the cultural context of the ancient Greeks). To the Greeks, the "ocean" was a great river that encircled the world - in other words, the "known" world. So, to them, beyond the Dardenelles, the Black Sea was indeed in the "ocean" - and as the only "ocean" they knew was the one named after Atlas, the Black Sea was, indeed, the Atlantic - and it was beyond the Pillars of Hercules, no matter which way you sailed past them, the river would eventually come round.

Raven

You and WAAS should get together; it seems like your tortuous version of Greek knowledge would mesh well.

The Kingdoms of the Bosporus were early (6th/7th Century BCE) Greek colonies on the North Shore of the Black Sea. They would have known The Atlantic Ocean and the Black Sea didn't connect. In fact, we can read explicitly in Hecataeus of Miletus that the Greeks were aware of this.

This is map based on his writings; res ipsa loquitur.

--Jaylemurph

edit: Grammar

Edited April 4, 2008 by jaylemurph

[The Puzzler]

Yes, actually, there is an account from Plato stating that it could be the Black Sea; however, one must observe the tale of Atlantis from an emic point of view (ie from within the cultural context of the ancient Greeks). To the Greeks, the "ocean" was a great river that encircled the world - in other words, the "known" world. So, to them, beyond the Dardenelles, the Black Sea was indeed in the "ocean" - and as the only "ocean" they knew was the one named after Atlas, the Black Sea was, indeed, the Atlantic - and it was beyond the Pillars of Hercules, no matter which way you sailed past them, the river would eventually come round.

Raven

Absolutely Raven - it is the whole context thing. I'm glad you see it, follow what I said in my whole post and it becomes clear that it is where he is talking about. Let's look at Jason and the Argonauts too. he went to the Earth's end or World's end, his quest took him to the east edge of the Black Sea, it's everywhere, those who cannot accept this just are simply taking Plato's tale too literally.

[Raven1971]

Admittedly my knowledge of Greek history is limited; I work with living Amazon indians, not dead Greeks. However, I will state for a fact that I believe Atlantis to be a myth, not a real place. Sorry if that doesn't mesh with whatever it is you happen to believe. I was merely trying to refute that other bloke's questioning of a possibility of the Black Sea, at which I failed. My humble apologies; I shan't speak about the Greeks again (unless some idiot tries to claim that they were here in the Amazon building temples)...

Don't worry - your sacred soap box is not under threat (fdp)...

Raven

[The Puzzler]

You and WAAS should get together; it seems like your tortuous version of Greek knowledge would mesh well.

The Kingdoms of the Bosporus were early (6th/7th Century BCE) Greek colonies on the North Shore of the Black Sea. They would have known The Atlantic Ocean and the Black Sea didn't connect. In fact, we can read explicitly in Hecataeus of Miletus that the Greeks were aware of this.

This is map based on his writings; res ipsa loquitur.

--Jaylemurph

edit: Grammar

We should. And you have such great knowledge do you? lol I see you in Plato's tale......one of those who thinks they are so knowledgable but in reality, is not at all. A true Sophist. Come off your pedestal J, it will do you the world of good my friend.

The mediterranean is just the harbour spoken of - the Black Sea is the Atlantic Ocean in his tale. What the greeks thought they knew and what was legend is history told by the Egyptian priest could be 2 totally different things, see, it is spoken that the Greeks have lost the tale, again, you take it all too literally and try to connect it up with facts, which you don't even know are part of the time frame in the piece Plato is speaking.

Edited April 4, 2008 by weareallsuckers

[The Puzzler]

My humble apologies; I shan't speak about the Greeks again (unless some idiot tries to claim that they were here in the Amazon building temples)...

Don't worry - your sacred soap box is not under threat (fdp)...

Raven

Raven, don't do that, you must speak the truth if you feel it that way, don't give in to those who think they are so knowledgable but may indeed be completely ignorant, you have humbled yourself so are on the true path to wisdom. (If you are into Plato's philosophies).

[The Puzzler]

No, where is your proof. Is there any relations at all from Plato that its in the black sea? It was stated "Atlantic Ocean", and therefore Atlantis and Atlanteans.

I do not for a second believe Atlantis is under the black sea...... i do however believe there are sunken cities.

I gave my proofs in my long post that I had thought about. Where is yours that Atlantis is ACTUALLY in the Atlantic Ocean?

Here's some more reading: (Don't take it too seriously though, I'm just throwing in food for thought) The ancient Greeks called Crimea Tauri - lots of clues there. Tauri - Taurus - bull - bull people - Taurus is one of the oldest constellations, if not the oldest. There is evidence of advanced tools and more of Neanderthals, being excavated recently on Crimea. Look at the history of Neanderthals and bulls.......also we see in the sky Orion the Hunter next to Taurus the bull - hunting the bull or bull-people, the Neanderthal.........something there? maybe.

Edited April 5, 2008 by weareallsuckers

[keithisco]

name='weareallsuckers' date='Apr 5 2008, 12:54 AM' post='2230430']

We should. And you have such great knowledge do you? lol I see you in Plato's tale......one of those who thinks they are so knowledgable but in reality, is not at all. A true Sophist. Come off your pedestal J, it will do you the world of good my friend.

You may wish to mock J's knowledge, by inference the suggestion is that your own knowledge is far superior: I suggest you try a little humility yourself and then perhaps you will also find yourself on the true path to wisdom.

The mediterranean is just the harbour spoken of - the Black Sea is the Atlantic Ocean in his tale.

You make it excrutiatingly painful when you wantonly ignore the factual elements in Timaeus. Plato knew the difference between the Atlantic and the Black Sea.

What the greeks thought they knew and what was legend is history told by the Egyptian priest could be 2 totally different things

There is NO other record of this story from any Egyptian writings.

you take it all too literally and try to connect it up with facts, which you don't even know are part of the time frame in the piece Plato is speaking.

Plato gave specific locations in his tale, which were not subject to any equivocation (Such as the Pillars of Hercules, the Atlantic Ocean), and if we now say they were not real then, none of the rest of his tale can be considered to hold any veracity at all.

[The Puzzler]

You may wish to mock J's knowledge, by inference the suggestion is that your own knowledge is far superior: I suggest you try a little humility yourself and then perhaps you will also find yourself on the true path to wisdom.

lol, I am most humble, I assure you, J and I speak enough now for him to know how that is meant to be taken....he knows I am ignorant...and very sarcastic.

You make it excrutiatingly painful when you wantonly ignore the factual elements in Timaeus. Plato knew the difference between the Atlantic and the Black Sea.

I don't believe I said otherwise. His readings of Herodotus would have shown him that, even then, in Herodotus' writings the Atlantic Ocean is only briefly mentioned as being outside the Pillars. It was a place unknown apart from the West Coast of Africa that had 'possibly' been navigated at this time. You could look at it as 'unknown'.

Don't forget Plato was not writing a history book, he was writing a fictional tale telling of examples of virtue and wisdom being trying to be tempted by evil and immorality and how we should be aware of our ignorance, only when this happens to we become wise. Just like Plato's teacher Socrates learnt. It is based on known knowledge and mythology in the form of a riddle asking us a vital question...(pretty much like another story of this ilk, the Bible)It is a riddle, it is not a lesson in geography. It's about a war within ourselves. I have a whole thread of this stuff - my own theory about how Solon is the pinnacle of the story. He's not the story teller, he's the story. His life is the culmination of what Plato is looking for for a comparison.

As far as angels go, Psyche, Eros' consort, only gained her wings when she had 'earned the divinity by her devotion and perseverance.'

Angels are the devoted souls to a God (Originally a Goddess, Aphrodite). A dedication to love.

There is NO other record of this story from any Egyptian writings.

big suprise...

Plato gave specific locations in his tale, which were not subject to any equivocation (Such as the Pillars of Hercules, the Atlantic Ocean), and if we now say they were not real then, none of the rest of his tale can be considered to hold any veracity at all.

Pretty much sums it up........

You can add in Greek God myths all the way throughout it.

Example:

Athens vs Atlantis

Athena - virtuous and wise - vs Atlantis of which Poseidon was king

Do you know the story of how Athena became ruler of Athens? Because of her contest (battle) with Posiedon, who was the most immoral of all the Gods.

Athena - Goddess of wisdom and Athens, daughter of Zeus and Metis.

Poseidon - brother of Zeus who got the oceans in the Battle of the Titans.

That's the main background to it all.

If you looked at the work geographically the island he describes could be Azores when the water level was much lower, it's on a major fault line joining 3 plates. Has the features of what it looked like, Plato would have had no idea of it unless of some obscure mention of it somewhere, I don't believe from the way I see Plato write there is any island in the Atlantic that was Atlantis. If anything I believe he may be referring to eastwards towards the Indian Ocean and on to the Pacific when he mentions island divers and that you reach another continent via this direction. But that's just conjecture.

Having said that what I meant by the Crimean Peninsula is that all roads lead to there in many ways, some I mentioned in my post before. Jason and the Argonauts also crossed to the other side of the Black Sea in very ancient times or legendary times, that's where all the tzales of that story come from. The whole thing is very complex.

I do think that it contains reference to historical places and happenings but not in the way we know them as histories. Messages are all through it, whats the message in each event is what you need to concentrate on and how it compares to the war in us to achieve winning by virtue to achieve a 'perfect state' which in reality when you strip the whole lost city of Atlantis mumbo jumbo away is essentially what it's about.

As far as angels go, Psyche, Eros' consort, only gained her wings when she had 'earned the divinity by her devotion and perseverance.'

Angels are the devoted souls to a God (Originally a Goddess, Aphrodite). A dedication to love.

It ends when Zeus spake as follows: but there is nothing, why? because it is the Judgement - did we make the right choice? To live good and virtuous lives, educating ourselves and gaining the wisdom needed to go to Heaven or did the forces of evil take over our state and now we shall suffer in Hell. (Hades myth with Tantalus & Tartarus) Tantalus went to Hell after some impiety. He was then tantalised. Tantalis - rearrange the letters and what do you get?

Do you 'see the truth'?

Edited April 5, 2008 by weareallsuckers

[jaylemurph]

We should. And you have such great knowledge do you? lol I see you in Plato's tale......one of those who thinks they are so knowledgable but in reality, is not at all. A true Sophist. Come off your pedestal J, it will do you the world of good my friend.

I dunno. I stand by the work I did to get my degrees in historical studies. They reflect the fact that I actually do know what I'm talking about: you can tell by the way I use, you know, facts to back up my argument. There's a substantial difference between saying (for instance) "the Greeks knew the Euxine Sea and the Atlantic Ocean weren't the same thing" and then citing a Greek author who /says/ so and saying "Orion and Taurus were the same thing because my tortuous pet theory dictates they should be". Clearly it's not a difference you appreciate, but I think I'm not alone in recognizing it.

And before you say I'm not knowledgeable again, remember that I threw down a Greek myth you apparently didn't know about the birth of Orion that does more to support your odd little fancy than anything you were able to come up with.

--Jaylemurph

[The Puzzler]

I dunno. I stand by the work I did to get my degrees in historical studies. They reflect the fact that I actually do know what I'm talking about: you can tell by the way I use, you know, facts to back up my argument. There's a substantial difference between saying (for instance) "the Greeks knew the Euxine Sea and the Atlantic Ocean weren't the same thing" and then citing a Greek author who /says/ so and saying "Orion and Taurus were the same thing because my tortuous pet theory dictates they should be". Clearly it's not a difference you appreciate, but I think I'm not alone in recognizing it.

And before you say I'm not knowledgeable again, remember that I threw down a Greek myth you apparently didn't know about the birth of Orion that does more to support your odd little fancy than anything you were able to come up with.

--Jaylemurph

whatever.......like I said, this is all becoming tiresome....everyone is so serious. Didn't you see my answer to keithco.

I am so bored here I have to entertain myself with my own little pet theories.

So it's OK to mock my knowledge but me not to mock yours....typical.

[jaylemurph]

whatever.......like I said, this is all becoming tiresome....everyone is so serious. Didn't you see my answer to keithco.

I am so bored here I have to entertain myself with my own little pet theories.

So it's OK to mock my knowledge but me not to mock yours....typical.

Wait wait wait.

I'm not mocking knowledge. I'm not even mocking ignorance. What I'm pointing out are theories with nothing to back them up that try to claim parity with theories that do have something to back them up. It was you, I believe, that came out swinging about what I know and don't know. And I think it's a worthwhile challenge to prove, so it doesn't bother me if you ask things like that.

I've even said before that I don't have a problem with this kind of baseless, errant speculation if it keeps where it belongs (like the poorer kind of sci-fi). It's just when people want them to have equal dignity with actual historical work just because they're more interesting or just because someone personally like them, not because they answer questions or make sense of the information we have, that I speak out about them.

--Jaylemurph

Edited April 5, 2008 by jaylemurph

[The Puzzler]

Wait wait wait.

I'm not mocking knowledge. I'm not even mocking ignorance. What I'm pointing out are theories with nothing to back them up that try to claim parity with theories that do have something to back them up. It was you, I believe, that came out swinging about what I know and don't know. And I think it's a worthwhile challenge to prove, so it doesn't bother me if you ask things like that.

I've even said before that I don't have a problem with this kind of baseless, errant speculation if it keeps where it belongs (like the poorer kind of sci-fi). It's just when people want them to have equal dignity with actual historical work just because they're more interesting or just because someone personally like them, not because they answer questions or make sense of the information we have, that I speak out about them.

--Jaylemurph

OK, again, whatever. You will see my dig at you and your facts regarding your knowledge was a bit of a joke, I even lol in it, sorry you and keithisco saw it as serious, it really wasn't meant to be.....I am sarcastic, that's my warped humour.

Listen, that's all well and good to go by facts, I am a logical, factual person too believe it or not, many times I'm just exploring avenues of thought, tell me, how do you prove or make a fact that Atlantis is an anagram of tantalis(e)? That's my conclusion, that the tale of Atlantis is nothing more than a riddle on how we avoid being tempted (or tantalised into) going to Hell. It's along thse lines. With some upturned historical events, Solon's travels and myth thrown it. So, how do I prove this???

Edited April 6, 2008 by weareallsuckers

[bobxxx]

sorry not possible glaziers on greenland are,nt miles thick only metres and at the current rate of global warming will soon be cm

[jaylemurph]

OK, again, whatever. You will see my dig at you and your facts regarding your knowledge was a bit of a joke, I even lol in it, sorry you and keithisco saw it as serious, it really wasn't meant to be.....I am sarcastic, that's my warped humour.

Listen, that's all well and good to go by facts, I am a logical, factual person too believe it or not, many times I'm just exploring avenues of thought, tell me, how do you prove or make a fact that Atlantis is an anagram of tantalis(e)? That's my conclusion, that the tale of Atlantis is nothing more than a riddle on how we avoid being tempted (or tantalised into) going to Hell. It's along thse lines. With some upturned historical events, Solon's travels and myth thrown it. So, how do I prove this???

This is exactly what I mean, WAAS. You need to find out the facts before you spin them into an elaborate theory that's not going to stand to scrutiny.

The verb "to tantalise" (or -ize, whichever) doesn't exist in Greek. (Well, there is a verb for what it is, but it's not an eponym from Tanatalus...) In fact, it's not even a very old English word. It's from 1597 or so. And the name Tantalus doesn't have anything to do with Atlantis; it's from a common PIE word for "to bear" or "to carry".

So to answer your question, you /can't/ prove the connection between Atlantis and name Tantalus because it doesn't really exist.

sorry not possible glaziers on greenland are,nt miles thick only metres and at the current rate of global warming will soon be cm

No, the glaciers in Greenland are almost 2 kilometers deep. That's a mile and then some.

--Jaylemurph

[eckasha]

I would love to have the time to fully explain atlantis and it's two sinkings (28000BC&9558BC), but I don't right now.

Many of you are full of energy and thats good to see.

Other intersting things around Atlantis is how it sunk Lemuria 50000BC and how it has been the root of all major civilizations since then and the reason for 911 the war in Irac, the philly ex, pearl harbour/nagasaki-Hiroshima. as well as much more.

It may tantalize your atlantis tastebuds to nibble on the faCT THAT MAJOR PORTIONS OF THE aTLANTEAN MANTLE THAT WAS DESTROYED And fell benieth the ocean is no longer there. It is being held (against it's will) in a "Hybernation Zone" which physically resides in our atmosphere high above the earth, as well as within our crust in the "Aquifers" below surface.

You won't find this anywhere else. Especially not sourced from Cayce or the likes

It's time to awaken and see the whole.

me