Lake City Florida End Timers

[Rosewin]

Hi Oriana it is a joy to post with you as you might tell by the time I put into this post even after I lost it all and had to write most of it all over again.

It is not really a case of not seeing eye to eye but rather in using completely different definitions. I define cult in sociological terms as being one of four religious groups. Ecclesia (aligned with the state), denominations (tolerates religious pluralism and ingrained into society), and sects (a group that has splintered from another larger group), being the other three.

The media and popular parlance usually assign negative connotations towards cults and sects and while not accurate is a natural result of cults being at odds with established beliefs and sects to a lesser degree.

These are some but not all of the characteristics of a cult: has new ideas at odds or at variance with already established religious ideas, has a charismatic leader, and usually has followers who themselves are economically marginalized from society (aka poorer people). There is nothing negative about any of these or other characteristics of a cult from a sociological standpoint but we can see how society at large views all these characteristics as suspicious.

An Eastern religion while in the East is part of established society but once those same ideas are transported to the West and a group forms it will then be considered a cult.

I can tell you view not only the word cult as negative but also ancient prophets and authors of ancient religious texts by the way you claim that they cannot be diagnosed even though you have seemingly diagnosed them. In the case of Judaism it was an established part of Israelite society so cannot be viewed as a cult until the diaspora. In the places they immigrated to their religious beliefs were at odds with the already established ones. Christianity definitely started off as a cult both at odds with Judaism and Roman religions but that changed to some degree though many Christian groups have not always agreed with the Catholic and Orthodox way of things such as Gnostics. So while some of the ancient prophets and authors of ancient religious texts could be viewed as cults it is not for the negative associations you have assumed upon them.

So to review you post the strange ideas you claim are merely a negative spin at unorthodox views. Not all cults commit crimes and some larger social groups, some not even religious, commit crimes as well but this is the exception and not the rule for both cults and larger social entities. Their ideas of God you seem to be adverse to strike me as intolerance though I could be wrongly assuming thus. Not all cults want to save the world, some understand the world and simply want to withdraw and be left alone, though by doing so it assuredly means they will not be left alone sadly. It seems larger groups and not cults want to save or control the world to their ways of thinking.

This post and the following might be informative though I understand it is not going to change the popular though misguided view of what cults and sects are nor is it intended to do so.

There has been strong criticism of some of the methods of allegedly employed by certain religious sects. In this reading, Barabra Hargrove considers whether these criticisms are justified.

...

They are said to show evidence of psychosis, of schizophrenia, of loss of creativity. They are described as exhibiting robot-like behavior or having a typical glassy-eyed "thousand-mile stare." They no longer engage in rational discussions, it is said, but keep using the jargon and advancing the ideology of the group...

It is assumed that this behavior is the product of a deliberate, sinister, and highly sophisticated plot to take over the minds and souls of young people and turn them into 'robots'.

...

All evidence points to the fact that the deprogramming cause has become at least as much a social movement as the groups it seeks to suppose.

One obvious question to ask is whether these young converts are simply that-converts-to a religious group which is labeled deviant by the society, or at least by the portion of society from which they have come.

...

For example, a number of conservative Christian groups have been so challenged...

...

To others who do not share their frame of reference...

...

The convert will not longer "listen to reason." Their attention is fixed elsewhere, so that, they may seem a thousand miles away, regardless of whether their eyes actually have a "thousand-miles state."

...

Harvey Cox has suggested that in all societies where new religious movements have attracted young people, their parents and others in the "establishment" will develop some "evil eye" theory, insisting that their children have been bewitched.

...

Brainwashing, in this case, may be seen as the evil eye theory appropriated to modern scientific culture. This kind of definition of conversion also fits our common tendency to define any deviance as illness. Conversion in this instance is simply a case of induced mental illness... There is in this "evil eye" theory no more place for rational decision making or personal freedom of choice than could be found in the old theories of witchcraft, sorcery, and possession.

...

Perhaps we have forgotten other explanations which might have carried with them more satisfactory methods of dealing with the situation.

A failure to recognize the importance of religion in society leads to overlooking those human needs which are most often served by religious involvement. In particular, a secular society which prides itself on being objectively rational in the scientific mode may offer little challenge or hope to a young person who longs to be fully involved in activity which is of value...

...

Time and time again, converts give as a their reason for joining the fact that here they had found a group of people who cared about one another, and who cared for them as persons.

...

An evil eye definition of conversion has both its source and its consequences in the willingness by members of the dominant society to avoid dealing with those weaknesses of the society that create needs which are met by new religious groups. Bewitchment or brainwashing must be the fault of the deceiver, not of those whose children are deceived nor of the society from which they come. No critical examination of other possible causes is thought necessary. And so no remedial action is required other than the exorcism of the evil influence.

...

These are the kinds of questions which conversations elicit, and which definitions like brainwashing allow us to ignore.

Robertson, Ian. "Sociology" Worth Publishers, 1981. p 432-433

So while we might quickly throw the word brainwashing around to instantly dismiss a group and its beliefs in which we do not know much about it is not accurately describing the group being maligned but rather indicative of the ignorance of society at large, not only of the maligned group but also their own societal deficiencies. In other words when someone points a finger at another there is usually three fingers being pointed back at them from their own hand.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rosewin

[Rosewin]

I forgot to add that some view all forms of religon as negative so even ecclesias and denominations which are more ingrained into society are negative to them...of course they will assign negative definitions to all of them. The media on the other hand just cares about selling more copy or advertisement so will use these words in a very sensationalist manner. Hearing any positive aspects of a cult or sect do not sell but bad news always sells and travels fast but this is of course a evolutionary trait they are exploiting and capitalizing on. Since I do not want to manipulated into what I should believe it is natural for me to be suspicious of the media.

[MysticOnion]

Hi Oriana it is a joy to post with you as you might tell by the time I put into this post even after I lost it all and had to write most of it all over again.

It is not really a case of not seeing eye to eye but rather in using completely different definitions. I define cult in sociological terms as being one of four religious groups. Ecclesia (aligned with the state), denominations (tolerates religious pluralism and ingrained into society), and sects (a group that has splintered from another larger group), being the other three.

The media and popular parlance usually assign negative connotations towards cults and sects and while not accurate is a natural result of cults being at odds with established beliefs and sects to a lesser degree.

These are some but not all of the characteristics of a cult: has new ideas at odds or at variance with already established religious ideas, has a charismatic leader, and usually has followers who themselves are economically marginalized from society (aka poorer people). There is nothing negative about any of these or other characteristics of a cult from a sociological standpoint but we can see how society at large views all these characteristics as suspicious.

An Eastern religion while in the East is part of established society but once those same ideas are transported to the West and a group forms it will then be considered a cult.

I can tell you view not only the word cult as negative but also ancient prophets and authors of ancient religious texts by the way you claim that they cannot be diagnosed even though you have seemingly diagnosed them. In the case of Judaism it was an established part of Israelite society so cannot be viewed as a cult until the diaspora. In the places they immigrated to their religious beliefs were at odds with the already established ones. Christianity definitely started off as a cult both at odds with Judaism and Roman religions but that changed to some degree though many Christian groups have not always agreed with the Catholic and Orthodox way of things such as Gnostics. So while some of the ancient prophets and authors of ancient religious texts could be viewed as cults it is not for the negative associations you have assumed upon them.

So to review you post the strange ideas you claim are merely a negative spin at unorthodox views. Not all cults commit crimes and some larger social groups, some not even religious, commit crimes as well but this is the exception and not the rule for both cults and larger social entities. Their ideas of God you seem to be adverse to strike me as intolerance though I could be wrongly assuming thus. Not all cults want to save the world, some understand the world and simply want to withdraw and be left alone, though by doing so it assuredly means they will not be left alone sadly. It seems larger groups and not cults want to save or control the world to their ways of thinking.

This post and the following might be informative though I understand it is not going to change the popular though misguided view of what cults and sects are nor is it intended to do so.

Robertson, Ian. "Sociology" Worth Publishers, 1981. p 432-433

So while we might quickly throw the word brainwashing around to instantly dismiss a group and its beliefs in which we do not know much about it is not accurately describing the group being maligned but rather indicative of the ignorance of society at large, not only of the maligned group but also their own societal deficiencies. In other words when someone points a finger at another there is usually three fingers being pointed back at them from their own hand.

Its not intolerance you're picking up on - its rational thinking. I can't stop people making or joining cults - society doesn't either but when cults start doing things to break the law like paedophilia, polygamy and so on - thats taking away something from humanity - and so society does something about it - not taking away free speech or changing opinions, just upholding the law in the interests of the secular society we live in.

[Rosewin]

No one might be able to stop others joining, they join for needs not met by other groups first and foremost, but it is quite easy for some to assume all cults engage in nefarious practices when that is simply not the case. My rational thinking leads me to conclude that some are just putting a negative spin on things because of their intolerance. In one instance you claim it is not intolerance on your part but mention illegal actives out the other side of your mouth which can only serve to create intolerance...

Polygamy is an accepted practice in other societies and just because it is not the norm here does not make our society better and others wrong. Other criminal activity is not exclusive to cults. Truly the only crime in my perspective in all of this is intolerance.

The OP was written in frenzied and sensationalist terms. Others have either implied or instantly assumed the Lake City group is engaging in criminal activity merely because their views are highly unorthodox. That is intolerance. Rational thinking would take a deeper look into these matters before judging too hasty. Rational thinking IMHO would lead to tolerance which little to none has been demonstrated within this thread but before we go on claiming rational thinking as our own monopoly and those who disagree must not be rationally thinking I will just leave it as different perspectives based on different information. The question that must be asked is where do you get your information?

As usual I am more concerned with discussing concepts rather than discussing people while the popular method usually judges people and then assumes the concept is based on that judgment. In summary cults are not a negative thing nor are they positive but a neutral word but neutrality does not sell press.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rosewin

[MysticOnion]

No one might be able to stop others joining, they join for needs not met by other groups first and foremost, but it is quite easy for some to assume all cults engage in nefarious practices when that is simply not the case. My rational thinking leads me to conclude that some are just putting a negative spin on things because of their intolerance. In one instance you claim it is not intolerance on your part but mention illegal actives out the other side of your mouth which can only serve to create intolerance...

Some popular cults include Jonestown, Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses and some Evangelist groups - and it is these groups who give Christianity a bad name, also leading followers to a "Different" Jesus as portrayed in the bible, using techniques such as brainwashing and emotional blackmail. A cult is defined as a religious sect whose members are "controlled" by a manipulative organization or individual.

Now I'm not a religious person but I have been in the past - very very much religious and I got out of it and I'm glad I did. You don't realise whats happening till you get out of it. There is a difference between intolerance and upholding the human rights everyone should have.

[Rosewin]

Some popular cults include Jonestown, Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses and some Evangelist groups - and it is these groups who give Christianity a bad name, also leading followers to a "Different" Jesus as portrayed in the bible, using techniques such as brainwashing and emotional blackmail. A cult is defined as a religious sect whose members are "controlled" by a manipulative organization or individual.

Now I'm not a religious person but I have been in the past - very very much religious and I got out of it and I'm glad I did. You don't realise whats happening till you get out of it. There is a difference between intolerance and upholding the human rights everyone should have.

Other cults are TM groups in the West as well as spiritualism but I can see how mentioning groups with negative connotations will add to your negative spin of cults.

Mormons began as a sect or cult and while some groups broke off into other sects the main church has become more established and cannot be considered a cult or sect. As more middle class members embrace cults or sects they change their composition and become more ingrained into society.

Cults tend to be even more at odds with established society than sects. Many cults demand that members not only accept their doctrine but embrace an entire lifestyle involving radical change in self-identity. For this reason, cults are sometimes accused of brainwashing new members. Research suggests, however, that most people who join cults suffer no psychological harm (Barker, 1981; Kilbourne, 1983).

Macionis, John J. "Society: The Basics" Prentice Hall, 1992. p 308

Of course as stated previously those who view all organized religion as negative will definitely cast cults as being so in their perspective. I myself trust the studies mentioned above rather than popular misconceptions. Also it is understandable that your view is the more popular view within society but that does not make it the most informed one.

EDIT: I edited my previous post so not sure if you reviewed in its final entirety Oriana. Also Jehova's Witnesses are an Adventist sect and not a cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovas_witnesses

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rosewin

[MysticOnion]

Other cults are TM groups in the West as well as spiritualism but I can see how mentioning groups with negative connotations will add to your negative spin of cults.

Mormons began as a sect or cult and while some groups broke off into other sects the main church has become more established and cannot be considered a cult or sect. As more middle class members embrace cults or sects they change their composition and become more ingrained into society.

Macionis, John J. "Society: The Basics" Prentice Hall, 1992. p 308

Of course as stated previously those who view all organized religion as negative will definitely cast cults as being so in their perspective. I myself trust the studies mentioned above rather than popular misconceptions. Also it is understandable that your view is the more popular view within society but that does not make it the most informed one.

EDIT: I edited my previous post so not sure if you reviewed in its final entirety Oriana. Also Jehova's Witnesses are an Adventist sect and not a cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovas_witnesses

Forgive my ignorance Rosewin if it is indeed that but - is your defensive stance in favor of cults for a reason - such as.... are you or have you ever been in one and are you suffering from a misguided sense of loyalty?

If I'm wrong in asking that question I apologise now - because although I disagree with cults in principle, I don't want to upset you as I find you to be a sensitive and caring individual with the well being of others at heart.

[Rosewin]

I have a neutral view of cults. It is not a negative or positive word. We can then further look at the members of certain cults and what you say holds true to them specifically but not across the board to all cults. I have no dog in the fight over whether cults are good or bad I believe the word is a neutral descriptor and I was just sharing my views.

I did grow up in a cult like church, an AMF (Apostolic Ministers Fellowship) church, that demanded control over the family but my parents were wise enough to leave it for something better by the time I was seven though I am sure United Pentecostal Church International is considered a cult by many. I no longer attend church but if I did it would be a UPCI one because that is where I feel most at home and I am aware of its inherent strengths and weaknesses but it is not a cult.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rosewin

[MysticOnion]

I have a neutral view of cults. It is not a negative or positive word. We can then further look at the members of certain cults and what you say holds true to them specifically but not across the board to all cults. I have no dog in the fight over whether cults are good or bad I believe the word is a neutral descriptor and I was just sharing my views.

I did grow up in a cult like church, an AMF (Apostolic Ministers Fellowship) church, that demanded control over the family but my parents were wise enough to leave it for something better by the time I was seven though I am sure United Pentecostal Church International is considered a cult by many. I no longer attend church but if I did it would be a UPCI one because that is where I feel most at home and I am aware of its inherent strengths and weaknesses but it is not a cult.

I like your siggy - that says who you really are.

[Rosewin]

A magical thinker which makes me a likely candidate for developing a mental illness. The only thing I am a skeptic of is reality and what people think is possible and impossible. I find that world too confining though I do appreciate order just not on that scale.

Thank you for every friendly word you have said to me it is most appreciated.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rosewin

[MysticOnion]

A magical thinker which makes me a likely candidate for developing a mental illness. The only thing I am a skeptic of is reality and what people think is possible and impossible. I find that world too confining though I do appreciate order just not on that scale.

Thank you for every friendly word you have said to me it is most appreciated.

I think mental illness is confusion - you're not mentally ill if you know who you are and in what direction your life is going in. As long as you aren't hurting anyone you should be allowed to do as you wish. If you are confused then people get hurt - whether its you yourself or those around you. As the Wiccans say "An if it harms none do what you will".

I have opinions - who doesn't - I'm skeptical of some things and not so skeptical of others and try to keep an open mind. Also sometimes you need to lighten the mood a bit and have a laugh - you can be serious all the time but life is also about laughter.

[Rosewin]

Aww I agree to an extent because I do not give mental illness the negative connotations. Many mentally ill people are certain they are not confused and have the world figured out though the rest of society disagrees IMHO

The following is from the wikipedia article on Magical thinking but the following is not a definition of magical thinking but just the portion regarding the correlation between magical thinking and mental illness. I think I got the first to covered a bit though depression no longer is my companion or my identity. We all have the ability to change even if some of the genetic, chemical, and environmental odds might be against us. I found myself humming for no reason earlier and I had not noticed that in years. My content self is back ^__^ and it was a magical moment.

Magical thinking is often intensified in mental illnesses such as obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), clinical depression or schizotypal personality disorder.[citation needed] In each it can take a different form peculiar to the particular illness. In OCD, it is often used in ritual fashion to ameliorate the dread and risk of various dangerous possibilities, regardless of whether it has real effects on the object of fear. It contributes more to peace of mind, in that the person now feels they can engage in a risky activity more safely.

This is not unlike magical thinking in non-afflicted individuals; lucky garments and activities are common in the sports world. It begins to interfere with life when those activities deemed risky are routine and everyday, such as meeting others, using a public toilet, crossing a busy intersection, or eating. It is important to note, however, that not all people with OCD engage in a strict form of magical thinking, as many are fully conscious that the rationalizations with which they justify their obsessions or compulsions to themselves and others are not 'reasonable' in an ordinary sense of that word.

There is a correlation between psychosis and magical thinking. It has been found that those who scored highest on magical thinking showed a predisposition to psychosis (Eckblad & Chapman, 1983). Research has also shown that paranormal beliefs, including magical thinking, are correlated with people experiencing psychosis from schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (e.g., Thalbourne and French, 1995).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rosewin

[Lt_Ripley]

and yet

[Omnaka]

This town is close to where I live and the "end timers'' are taking over the town, they believe that Lake City is the only place safe from the Apocalypse. While I do respect their right to their faith they have some far out beliefs that they misconstrue as from the bible. They seriously remind me of Waco. One lady who I was discussing the issue with said"" just don't drink their Kool-aid".

We were discussing here awhile ago about these cults who take over small towns, well it is happening here and it is serious say the residents.

How can we deter these cults from taking over our towns?

Always a pleasure

Hi Sandee,

Don't buy in to their religion, and don't move to that town, respect their right to believe as they wish, as you want to have your belief Respected.

Definatly don't drink the Koolaid!

Just an Idea, Maybe they don't need to be stopped at all,

How does one stop The christian Faith from Damning For God?

Just don't Buy in to it.

Love Omnaka

[Rosewin]

Hi Sandee,

Don't buy in to their religion, and don't move to that town, respect their right to believe as they wish, as you want to have your belief Respected.

Definatly don't drink the Koolaid!

Just an Idea, Maybe they don't need to be stopped at all,

How does one stop The christian Faith from Damning For God?

Just don't Buy in to it.

Love Omnaka

Indeed Omnaka that is sage advice my friend.

My thoughts on stopping the Christian faith from damning you simply ignore it. People have attacked us and our faith since its inception and we only keep growing....worldwide we are increasing though in first world nations religion as a whole is decreasing. We can analyze it all day but our Word is being published more and more. Attack us and you will have those insecure Christians attack back. Trying to point fingers of who started it first will not end the antagonism. Ignore the antagonists and peace will reign and for the most part that is exactly how people operate in the real world but here in forum land *ducks* let the stones fly but I have none in my hand because I am secure in the fact we are increasing because we work for many people and for those we do not work for good luck on your paths.

+ i know a good joke about jonestown but the punch line is too long

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rosewin

[applegrove]

Some popular cults include Jonestown, Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses and some Evangelist groups - and it is these groups who give Christianity a bad name, also leading followers to a "Different" Jesus as portrayed in the bible, using techniques such as brainwashing and emotional blackmail. A cult is defined as a religious sect whose members are "controlled" by a manipulative organization or individual.

Now I'm not a religious person but I have been in the past - very very much religious and I got out of it and I'm glad I did. You don't realise whats happening till you get out of it. There is a difference between intolerance and upholding the human rights everyone should have.

In all due respect please research the groups you are calling names you throw around the word CULT and say these groups are giving Christainity a bad name but what do you actually know about them?

I have been a Mormon for ten years now. I can guarantee you I am not being controled in any way and If you do some reasearch you will discover the tremedous amount of charity the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints does in the world today.

As far as the other groups I know a few Jehovahs Witnesses and although I don't belive the same way they do, I know they are not cult members.

The other groups you metioned I know nothing about. But I had to defend my church.

You are more than welcome to attend a meeting at a Latterday Saint Church near you, if you do you will discover that we are in general a Christ loving charitable group of people, and if you after one meeting, or I after years decide to stop that's alright to. I know this because I stoped attending for two years at one point.

Does that sound like a cult?

[Rosewin]

Some people need labels, even if incorrect, so they can hold on to their grievances, even when said grievances no longer apply. We always want to justify our biases it is rather natural and to know this helps us understand and accept others even while they are intolerant towards us. The same thing occurs in marriage. A real problem exists among many and when it is corrected the other partner will not notice and still hold the old problem against them. Forgiveness takes time but is most beneficial for those who do forgive. Forgiveness is about yourself because if you only forgive depending on if the other person changes that is not genuine forgiveness and all the benefits, including a healthier heart, will not be attained.

I am trying to learn to forgive and wonder if forgiving means I will never feel anger when someone makes callous remarks or if I will just learn to let them slip by so I do not become resentful. That is not good for the heart. My heart hurts over all the anger I have had within me. If I am changing it is not to save the world it is to save myself and preserve what full life I can live for my wife and family.

[widowxb]

Breaking news as of April 12, 2010 this was on First coast news of jacksonville

LAKE CITY, Fla. -- Charles Meade, the leader of what some call a cult in Lake City, has died.

Meade's son-in-law Charles Sparks confirmed to First Coast News Monday afternoon that his father-in-law passed away. When asked about when Meade died and how old he was, Sparks said he did not have the details.

Meade and 100 of his followers left the Midwest and moved to Lake City in 1984.

Meade's group, known as the Endtimers, has grown over the years. Its sprawling sanctuary seats more than 2,000.

The Endtimers are known for being elusive. They live near one another and most drive Cadillacs, the vehicle Meade drove.

Meade was known for his message to avoid medical attention because there was no need for his followers to be sick. He also preached that the Endtimers would be the only ones to survive God's wrath in the end times, prophesied in the Bible.

Joni Cutler, who was once part of the Endtimers which she she calls a cult, said she had not heard about Meade's death and wondered what will happen to the ministry now that Meade is gone.

Cutler, now a South Dakota lawmaker, left the group years ago after her daughter died of pneumonia when she was 4 days old. Cutler said she was not allowed to take her daughter to the doctor.

According to public records, Meade was 93.

[Star of the Sea]

Although the people of Lake City didn't realize it, what was happening to their town had happened before and would again: a religious sect migrating to a small community and reshaping its economy and its way of life.

It has happened in Schell City, Mo., with the Church of Israel; in Spindale, N.C., with the Word of Faith Fellowship; in Hildale, Utah, with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; in Abilene, Texas, with the House of Yahweh; in Bellevue, Wash., with the Life Tabernacle Church; in Grants Pass, Ore., with the Foundation of Human Understanding; in Attleboro, Mass., with The Body.

End Time women wore ankle-length dresses and never used makeup. (Meade cautioned them to beware of the "lipstick spirit.") The men didn't grow facial hair or wear digital wristwatches. (Mustaches, Meade said, were of the "homosexual spirit," and anything with a digital chip was evil.) Nobody ever saw an End Timer with a pet. (Animals, even pictures of animals, harbored demons, Meade told his followers.)As it turned out, there were quite a few objects of evil in the world of Meade: newspapers, TV, chewing gum, earrings, even Dr. Seuss books. Illness, Meade preached, was the work of the devil, best healed not by doctors but by faith. All holidays, including Christmas and Easter, were banned as pagan rituals..One home captures the attention of the neighborhood. It is the one with a privacy fence topped by three strands of barbed wire, an elaborate brick entryway framing its driveway, "no trespassing" signs and three rows of trees between which—say "normal' who monitored the landscaping— sharp sticks protrude from the ground. Across the street, the ground is bare in two spots where trucks park each night to watch the home, which has an appraised value of $104,864.

Some citizens of Lake City have come to call it "God's house." It is the home of Charles Meade, the 74-year-old founder of End Time Ministries, who says he has visited the evening star, walked with God along the Milky Way, healed the sick, revived the dead and "in the name of Jesus" commanded would-be robbers to drop their weapons.

End Time's purpose, as Meade told his followers in one of more than 60 tape-recorded sermons, is this:

"God's going to have a mighty army in this end time. The army that he spoke about in Joel. And you're some of the people. This generation here is the one that's going to bring Jesus back."

He talks about establishing a Society of "the greatest people that ever walked the face of the Earth." And he talks of himself, as someone doing something that has never been done.

He once told his followers that Jesus could "wash your clothes right on your own body, you don't even have to take them off. All you've got to do is believe God's word. "

Meade says he has seen evil spirits sitting on people's shoulders, whispering in their ears. One of Meade's preachers told of a person who became overweight after being operated on by an overweight doctor. The "fat spirit" left the doctor and entered the patient through the operation, said the End Time preacher

In addition to believing that Charles Meade has been called to establish God's Perfect community on Earth, they believe:Newspapers, radio and television are instruments of the devil. Animals—even images of animals —harbor demons, therefore End Timers don't have pets. (A former member says that she placed masking tape over pictures of teddy bears painted on her child's crib for fear that demons would leave the teddy bears and enter her child.) To say that you are tired is a sin, as God's people are to be empowered with supernatural stamina.

It is a sin to cry, for if you cry you have "lost your joy." Nor do End Timers believe in doctors. Members are encouraged to throw away their eyeglasses and false teeth and are told that sickness is the result of sin and "unbelief."

Since 1978, at least 12 babies belonging to End Time families have died from causes that medical officials say could have been prevented. The victims include 4 -day-old Michael Boehmer, who died in 1989 of internal bleeding, which doctors say could have been prevented with a vitamin K injection. It is the only infant death recorded among the group since the move to Lake City.

Meade's message that his followers are to deny worldly pleasures does not include refusing the world's money. In fact, he preaches that the End Time army, like the God-led Israelites leaving Egypt, should take "the enemy's" riches.

"When God sets you free," Meade preached on one tape, "you see what he did to them. He give them silver and gold and give them plenty, taken it right away from the enemy and give it to his people. I'm telling you the same thing can happen right now. Why should the enemy out here, the ungodly, the unbeliever be handling all the gold?"

Much of Lake City's "gold" is being handled by End Timers. Although they exclude themselves from virtually every other facet of community living, End Time Ministries is well represented in the business community. "Satan is still getting through and touching God's people and it has to be stopped in some way and you have to start training your mind and your thoughtsThe spirit of your mind, this is where things are getting through now.... There's an opening he has found in many and it's through the mind. This is where you've got to stop him.... God revealed it to me that Satan was getting through the mind to his people.... Many are deceived through the mind. Tell your mind even what to think."

"All churches, in his opinion, are of 'whoredom,'

From a Meade sermon: "Maybe some of you don't understand it, but we're doing greater works right now than even Jesus did when he was upon this Earth. I'm telling you, we're getting a people together in a time of trouble and darkness upon this Earth here like man has never assembled before together. And it's one of the hardest tasks a man has ever faced upon this Earth, is to bring a true people together in God, walking in the spirit, believing God's word, getting all healed up and set free and building up an army in this end time for the return of Jesus Christ. There's never been a man who had that task before upon this Earth. And I'm telling you; we're on our way now. We're on our way. We're on our way. He's on our side! He's on our side; I said He's on our side!"http://www.rickross.com/reference/endtimes/endtimes22.html

This town is close to where I live and the "end timers'' are taking over the town, they believe that Lake City is the only place safe from the Apocalypse. While I do respect their right to their faith they have some far out beliefs that they misconstrue as from the bible. They seriously remind me of Waco. One lady who I was discussing the issue with said"" just don't drink their Kool-aid".

We were discussing here awhile ago about these cults who take over small towns, well it is happening here and it is serious say the residents.

How can we deter these cults from taking over our towns?

Always a pleasure

Wow that's Gobsmacked me! What's going on over there?! I'm trying to visualise that happening over here in the UK! Blimey people take things way too seriously. I don't know what to say to advise you... jeepers do you have a local council? Somewhere you can voice your concerns? Local radio station? Local newspaper? Good luck