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Dutch MP posts Islam film on web


__Kratos__
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A message from the host site:

On the 28th of March LiveLeak.com was left with no other choice but to remove the film "fitna" from our servers following serious threats to our staff and their families. Since that time we have worked constantly on upgrading all security measures thus offering better protection for our staff and families. With these measures in place we have decided to once more make this video live on our site. We will not be pressured into censoring material which is legal and within our rules. We apologise for the removal and the delay in getting it back, but when you run a website you don't consider that some people would be insecure enough to threaten our lives simply because they do not like the content of a video we neither produced nor endorsed but merely hosted.

--

Most awesome :tu:

And now that I know about him... Pat Condell has a new video out on youtube! :D

Glad they were able to put the video back up.

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I don't think the Quran is really the culprit. Hell, I don't think that even the Muslim religion is at fault. I think there is more than enough evidence in the Christian Bible -- for example -- of that religion's god authorizing/condoning/ordering lots of bad things to happen to non-believers and promoting the expansion of that religion over all others.

Where I find the Fitna film -- and the message in general -- to be important or relevant to how I think of Muslims or the problem as a whole, is that just like any other animal on the planet, evolution is at work and we need to understand that some people just are not evolving at the same velocity.

For whatever reason, be it bad luck, lack of a centralized leadership, political aspirations of religious hierarchy, etc., Islam hasn't progressed to a point where it's followers are capable of interpreting their religion on an intelligent level (some are, but not enough to make their religion a non-threat to the rest of the world).

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Oh, completely, I know I have smote the necks of a few Muslims after the desecration of Christian Churches in Kosovo.  The relics of many Holy Saints reside their, they are all Holy sites to us.  1999 and 2004 were a couple of good years for me and my broadsword.   :rolleyes:   Oh, and by the way, I am not Serbian, so don't try and throw that at me.

Also, since I live in a Christian majority nation, so clearly, Muslims should have no rights, I gunned down an Imam and his three assistants (a la Father Ragheed Ganni and his deacons) after a service, also I abducted and murdered another Imam (in Archbishop Paulos Faraj Rahho fashion), and lastly, in one further act of cowardice, I will shoot an Imam in the back while he is in prayer (like what happened to Father Andrea Santoro) and promptly yell "Jesus is Lord!" before fleeing.

This is unbelievable.  There have been many attacks in the diaspora where members from outside the Middle East or even those who were domestically born carried it out.  

I don't see how this topic is racist.  There are Muslims of all races, it would be like saying someone who insults Christianity is a racist.  Last time I checked, a Bosniak didn't look Pakistani to me, nor Arabic.

I don't see how wealth makes things justifiable.  There are Muslims who have gone to Western nations, prospered, become professionals (doctors and whatnot), started families, yet still harbour such resentment to Western ideals that they support or even take part in such attacks.  So there must be more to it...

You mean like a Christian or Jew in a Muslim nation?  Last time I checked, the killing of Muslims in Western nations for the sole reason that they were Muslim, is very, very rare.  Let alone their rights being severely limited.  The West, unfortunately, is all too willing to bend over backwards to appease Muslims who appear in our nations, I don't see similar concessions being made in various Muslim nations.

Oh, completely, I know I have smote the necks of a few Muslims after the desecration of Christian Churches in Kosovo. The relics of many Holy Saints reside their, they are all Holy sites to us. 1999 and 2004 were a couple of good years for me and my broadsword. :rolleyes: Oh, and by the way, I am not Serbian, so don't try and throw that at me.

Also, since I live in a Christian majority nation, so clearly, Muslims should have no rights, I gunned down an Imam and his three assistants (a la Father Ragheed Ganni and his deacons) after a service, also I abducted and murdered another Imam (in Archbishop Paulos Faraj Rahho fashion), and lastly, in one further act of cowardice, I will shoot an Imam in the back while he is in prayer (like what happened to Father Andrea Santoro) and promptly yell "Jesus is Lord!" before fleeing.

I am sure you did, now go back to sleep.

Edited by odas
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Hi there, I am a Muslim and as you may have guessed, I strongly disagree with many posts made here (and with the movie itself). But, what you have to remember is that this Geert Wilders is a racist, a man sent with a mission by Isreal, and he will do anything to complete what he has been ordered to do by his leaders.

The movie itself is quite stupid, because although he had many months to make this movie, he had made some terrible mistakes... and I am not even starting about the false ideas that he is spreading about the Holy Qur'an.

Noble Qur'an 17:81. And say: 'Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish'.

First of all, look at this picture: http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z112/cilvaringz/SalahEdin-MohamedB.jpg

You may not see anything unusual, but these two men are completely different from each other (though they DO look the same). The man in the bigger picture is a man called 'Salah Edin'. This man is a well-known rapper in Holland, the country of Geert Wilders. The man in the smaller picture is called 'Mohammed B.' and he is the one that killed Theo van Gogh a couple of years ago (because he had the same ideology as Geert Wilders - maybe even worse). So you saw the picture, and both men look like each other, but it still is quite easy to distinguish between them, isn't it? And guess what Geert Wilders does? He takes the picture of the rapper (Salah Edin) and puts that in his movie! Besides his picture, he says something like 'This man killed Theo van Gogh, he is a terrorist, fundamentalist etc.'

Imagine if you were that man! What would you do? He decided to sue Geert Wilders and take him to court etc. (And worst of all, Wilders did not even bother to apologize to him!).

The second mistake is funny (in my opinion). Geert Wilders used one of the cartoons that insulted our Prophet (Peace be upon him) without the permission of the guy that drew them (You know, the Danish man that caused riots etc.) The cartoon had Copyright, and Wilders did not even ASK first if he could put that in his movie.... so you can guess what the cartoonist did next.... Yep, he went to court!

Imagine, these two people were once partners-in-crime, and now they have to battle it out in court!

As you can see, there has come nothing good out of this movie, on the contrary, he will soon be humiliated (more than he already has been), because of the bad name he has given to his own country! If you people are not convinced yet that this man is a total fraud, then I will go on to the next stage, which is to try and refute the movie itself. Thank you for your understanding.

Noble Qur’an 3:54. And they plotted and planned and Allah too planned, but the best of planners is Allah.

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Lots good came from it... Millions of views by people around the globe seeing the truth of what islam is.

He isn't a racist either, he simply very strongly disagrees with the hatred, opression, violence and terrorism that islam puts out onto the world. He values freedom and free thought.

If anybody is a racist here it is you, A-Fighter. I strongly doubt that Israel created a conspiracy with Geert Wilders in it. :rolleyes:

Edited by __Kratos__
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Hi there, I am a Muslim and as you may have guessed, I strongly disagree with many posts made here (and with the movie itself). But, what you have to remember is that this Geert Wilders is a racist, a man sent with a mission by Isreal, and he will do anything to complete what he has been ordered to do by his leaders.

The movie itself is quite stupid, because although he had many months to make this movie, he had made some terrible mistakes... and I am not even starting about the false ideas that he is spreading about the Holy Qur'an.

Noble Qur'an 17:81. And say: 'Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish'.

First of all, look at this picture: http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z112/cilvaringz/SalahEdin-MohamedB.jpg

You may not see anything unusual, but these two men are completely different from each other (though they DO look the same). The man in the bigger picture is a man called 'Salah Edin'. This man is a well-known rapper in Holland, the country of Geert Wilders. The man in the smaller picture is called 'Mohammed B.' and he is the one that killed Theo van Gogh a couple of years ago (because he had the same ideology as Geert Wilders - maybe even worse). So you saw the picture, and both men look like each other, but it still is quite easy to distinguish between them, isn't it? And guess what Geert Wilders does? He takes the picture of the rapper (Salah Edin) and puts that in his movie! Besides his picture, he says something like 'This man killed Theo van Gogh, he is a terrorist, fundamentalist etc.'

Imagine if you were that man! What would you do? He decided to sue Geert Wilders and take him to court etc. (And worst of all, Wilders did not even bother to apologize to him!).

The second mistake is funny (in my opinion). Geert Wilders used one of the cartoons that insulted our Prophet (Peace be upon him) without the permission of the guy that drew them (You know, the Danish man that caused riots etc.) The cartoon had Copyright, and Wilders did not even ASK first if he could put that in his movie.... so you can guess what the cartoonist did next.... Yep, he went to court!

Imagine, these two people were once partners-in-crime, and now they have to battle it out in court!

As you can see, there has come nothing good out of this movie, on the contrary, he will soon be humiliated (more than he already has been), because of the bad name he has given to his own country! If you people are not convinced yet that this man is a total fraud, then I will go on to the next stage, which is to try and refute the movie itself. Thank you for your understanding.

Noble Qur’an 3:54. And they plotted and planned and Allah too planned, but the best of planners is Allah.

Selam

There is a difference between the author of the cartoon and Geert Hitler.

The cartoonist was trying to make aware of radicalism within Islam and not Islam and moslems in genreal. B*tthead Geert on the other side is just trying to provoke moslems and shows a huge hatered towards Islam and moslems ( no matter radical, moderate or non practising ) in general.

Yes, Geert Wilders is a racist.

Radicalism of any kind and from any group is not acceptable.

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Well firstly here, Geert has been a critic of Hitler for a while now and even tried to get his book banned because it doesn't hold the values we hold today.

If you had taken the time to watch the video you would see that it's clips of muslims and their actions with quotes from the koran almost entirely. At the end he asks that muslims rip out the hateful and primitive pages of the koran for freedom.

If asking muslims to act like decent human beings is racist, well sign me up! :rolleyes:

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I will post something later, because I am very busy at the moment.

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Well firstly here, Geert has been a critic of Hitler for a while now...
I wonder if this is because of the hatred Hitler had towards the Jews...?

I strongly doubt that Israel created a conspiracy with Geert Wilders in it.
Hmmm... if you don't believe me, then who do you believe? Maybe Geert Wilders himself? Here is a section from Wikipedia about him:

In the past twenty five years Geert Wilders has visited Israel about forty times, where he has met Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert personally. He claims to have tight connections with the Mossad. He started to love Israel, or as he states it in his own words in 2003: "The past years I have visited many interesting countries, from Tunisia to Turkey and from Cyprus to Iran, but nowhere I have that special feeling of solidarity that I always get if I set foot on the Israeli Ben Gurion Airport." Wilders has, in the eight years he has served in the Dutch Parliament, always supported Israel and attacked countries he perceives as enemies of Israel. More than a few members of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy suspect Wilders of taking guidance from the Israeli Embassy in the Netherlands (which is only a few meters away from the Dutch Parliament) in order to question Dutch ministers.

These are not my words, but Wikipedia's, and it even contains a quote from Wilders himself. There is a far more darker side of Wilders that you (and I) have got no idea about, but trust me, that man is no ordinary person, for he is a racist, a liar and much more!

If anybody is a racist here it is you, A-Fighter.
How can you say such a thing?! So after you've read everything I said, you have come to the conclusion that I am the racist? Read carefully what I said, and also use your common sense to help you with understanding it, for I am not a racist, and I would never say the things that Wilders said. I also want to know what makes you think I am racist and that Wilders is not.
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I wonder if this is because of the hatred Hitler had towards the Jews...?

That and because nazism isn't freedom nor is it moral for a progressive society.

Hmmm... if you don't believe me, then who do you believe? Maybe Geert Wilders himself? Here is a section from Wikipedia about him:

In the past twenty five years Geert Wilders has visited Israel about forty times, where he has met Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert personally. He claims to have tight connections with the Mossad. He started to love Israel, or as he states it in his own words in 2003: "The past years I have visited many interesting countries, from Tunisia to Turkey and from Cyprus to Iran, but nowhere I have that special feeling of solidarity that I always get if I set foot on the Israeli Ben Gurion Airport." Wilders has, in the eight years he has served in the Dutch Parliament, always supported Israel and attacked countries he perceives as enemies of Israel. More than a few members of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy suspect Wilders of taking guidance from the Israeli Embassy in the Netherlands (which is only a few meters away from the Dutch Parliament) in order to question Dutch ministers.

These are not my words, but Wikipedia's, and it even contains a quote from Wilders himself. There is a far more darker side of Wilders that you (and I) have got no idea about, but trust me, that man is no ordinary person, for he is a racist, a liar and much more!

So because he likes Israel and supports them, Israel set up a conspiracy against the muslims using Geert? :lol:

Curious however since this 'conspiracy' used only facts to support it's claims.

How can you say such a thing?! So after you've read everything I said, you have come to the conclusion that I am the racist? Read carefully what I said, and also use your common sense to help you with understanding it, for I am not a racist, and I would never say the things that Wilders said. I also want to know what makes you think I am racist and that Wilders is not.

This:

Hi there, I am a Muslim and as you may have guessed, I strongly disagree with many posts made here (and with the movie itself). But, what you have to remember is that this Geert Wilders is a racist, a man sent with a mission by Isreal, and he will do anything to complete what he has been ordered to do by his leaders.

Those pesty jews, eh? :rolleyes:

And in this post you brought up the jews...

I wonder if this is because of the hatred Hitler had towards the Jews...?

All you've done here is attack Geert instead of the facts he presented, guess facts are hard to refute so you've got to resort to attacking the man. :tu:

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That and because nazism isn't freedom nor is it moral for a progressive society.
I don't care what Nazism stands for or what it wants to achieve, but he is not the only person in the world that is 'against' Hitler. Who does this man think he is? He compared the Holy Qur'an to Hitler’s Mein Kampf! Does that make him racist? Yes or No?

If someone speaks about the holocaust in a bad way (for example the Jewish death toll was not 6,000,000 but something like 10,000) then you will spend years in jail, did you know that? If you even try to research about things like that, you will get arrested in Western country. My point is, who are the Europeans to protect the Jews in such a way? The Americans are kneeling before Israel, but like I said before, you have NO knowledge of that.

So because he likes Israel and supports them, Israel set up a conspiracy against the Muslims using Geert?
No need to laugh about these things. Now you have to make up your mind. First you say he has nothing to do with Israel, then I gave you the info, and now you make fun of it? Don't call it a conspiracy, because it is a well-known fact to many people in Holland, even his fellow politicians. This man did not say 'I don't want any African people in my country' or 'I don't want any Asian people in my country'. He said the following: 'I don't want ANY Muslims in my country'. So yes, he is a racist towards Muslims, and not just the 'fundamentalists', but every single one. I had previously lived in Holland for 7 years and I had NEVER EVER heard of this man before. Then he made this movie and all of a sudden he is leading the war against Muslims (world-wide).

Curious however since this 'conspiracy' used only facts to support it's claims.
Who are you to tell us Muslims what has been written in our Book?! We can read for ourselves and if we encountered some verses which spoke about killing our own friends and neighbors, then do you (really) think that 1.5 billion people would follow that religion? I don't think so... And do you know how many people know the Holy Qur'an by heart? More than 10 Million people! (This means that they read those verses daily).

Now, I ask you to read my replies carefully and think carefully about how you want to reply. I don't want to repeat myself, because that will confuse both of us. Thanks.

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I want to make a new topic in the 'Spirituality vs Skepticism' section of this forum, because then there will be more people that can join the debate. And for me the more people = the better the discussion. (The subject will stay the same). Is that alright with you Kratos? Or do you want to keep it 1 on 1?
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I don't care what Nazism stands for or what it wants to achieve, but he is not the only person in the world that is 'against' Hitler. Who does this man think he is? He compared the Holy Qur'an to Hitler’s Mein Kampf! Does that make him racist? Yes or No?

If someone speaks about the holocaust in a bad way (for example the Jewish death toll was not 6,000,000 but something like 10,000) then you will spend years in jail, did you know that? If you even try to research about things like that, you will get arrested in Western country. My point is, who are the Europeans to protect the Jews in such a way? The Americans are kneeling before Israel, but like I said before, you have NO knowledge of that.

No, it does not make him a racist. It is the truth. The koran is a blood thirsty and hateful book.

And if you knew anything about me, you'd know that I've made a number of posts here against that idea of locking someone up for their opinion. I believe in free speech and the freedom to disagree as well.

Though I should really point out that this thread has zero things to do with Israel, the jews or the holocaust. It was you that brought them up.

No need to laugh about these things. Now you have to make up your mind. First you say he has nothing to do with Israel, then I gave you the info, and now you make fun of it? Don't call it a conspiracy, because it is a well-known fact to many people in Holland, even his fellow politicians. This man did not say 'I don't want any African people in my country' or 'I don't want any Asian people in my country'. He said the following: 'I don't want ANY Muslims in my country'. So yes, he is a racist towards Muslims, and not just the 'fundamentalists', but every single one. I had previously lived in Holland for 7 years and I had NEVER EVER heard of this man before. Then he made this movie and all of a sudden he is leading the war against Muslims (world-wide).

Because the entire idea that Israel is behind Geert's movie is laughable. Israel has nothing to do with this film as far as I can tell.

You should check your sources then...

"I don't hate Muslims. I hate Islam." -Geert Wilders

Source

And why should he not be against Islam? It's hateful, oppressive, violent and controlling.

Who are you to tell us Muslims what has been written in our Book?! We can read for ourselves and if we encountered some verses which spoke about killing our own friends and neighbors, then do you (really) think that 1.5 billion people would follow that religion? I don't think so... And do you know how many people know the Holy Qur'an by heart? More than 10 Million people! (This means that they read those verses daily).

Now, I ask you to read my replies carefully and think carefully about how you want to reply. I don't want to repeat myself, because that will confuse both of us. Thanks.

Well shockingly enough I can read as well.

Funny, because I do think you have read those hateful verses...

"Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their reason." Surah 8:22

That one always makes my infidel heart all warm and fuzzy inside. (that's sarcasm)

2:193 Hence, fight against them until there is no more opprossion and all worship is devoted to God alone but if they desist then all hostillity shall cease, save against those who willfully do wrong.

I used this line on purpose because it's meaning is that muslims to practice their faith how they want to do it freely, without outside influence and to justify to it's believers that their faith is better then everybody else and to kill them at the first sign of trouble for the freedom of islam to flourish.

I want to make a new topic in the 'Spirituality vs Skepticism' section of this forum, because then there will be more people that can join the debate. And for me the more people = the better the discussion. (The subject will stay the same). Is that alright with you Kratos? Or do you want to keep it 1 on 1?

There is already a topic there. There's no point to starting another topic anyways.

Edited by __Kratos__
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I will answer your questions about the verses that you just gave me (That is what I am here for), but remember, I am not a Scholar! I am 16 years old and can't speak Arabic (Language of the Qur'an), but give me some time and I will look trough the web to get some answers for you.

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This man did not say 'I don't want any African people in my country' or 'I don't want any Asian people in my country'. He said the following: 'I don't want ANY Muslims in my country'. So yes, he is a racist towards Muslims, and not just the 'fundamentalists', but every single one.

Hey A-Fighter, welcome to the forum. I just wanted to point out that being of the Islamic faith does not mean the Islamic race. Muslims are of many different races as Christians, Jews, etc. are. In other words, there is no such thing as an Islamic race. It would be the same as me saying being anti-american is racist.

It's true about Holland, they opened up their doors, gave them money if they couldnt find work, housing, freedom, security, did everything in thier power to welcome them. Now the door has slammed shut. We know why, do you?

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In a way, it is unfair for you just to give me a verse from the Qur'an, because I did some research and did not find anything 'unusual' about these two verses. Yes, they may look 'vicious etc.' to you, but can you speak Arabic? No? Me neither, but I have no doubt that the hundreds of millions of people who can speak Arabic fluently will have no problem with these verses. I did get to know that Qur'an 8:22 is talking about the Quraish (Tribe of Jews). These were the people at the time of Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him). I can not tell you much else, and I am sorry for that, but I will try to answer your other questions as fairly as possible.

That one always makes my infidel heart all warm and fuzzy inside. (that's sarcasm)
For you to just give me a verse like that and expect me to give you a clear answer is (a bit) over the top, but then making your own comments about our Holy Book really goes too far. What are you here for? You want to know the truth, just like me, but you are really not helping me by being sarcastic. I mean, what do I get out of this discussion? Only hate from you! (Exaggerating here lol).

The koran is a blood thirsty and hateful book ... And why should he not be against Islam? It's hateful, oppressive, violent and controlling.
Can you please stop using such words? I don't know if you have noticed it, but you are really hurting my feelings. You may believe whatever you want, but you can use different, more 'normal' words, because I really hate it when someone speaks like that. Thank you for your understanding.

So as you can see I tried to answer some of your questions but it was very hard for me. Let's leave all the Wilders-Israel talk behind, and concentrate on the real issues, which is the movie Fitna lol. Did you know that Wilders wanted to rip out pages from the Qur'an instead of the phone-book? (Have you seen the movie yet?) The whole government of Holland (including his own party) was very angry at him because of stupid mistakes like this that he made haha. Anyway, good luck in your research and everything and I will post something back tomorrow evening (UK time). Please take note of what I told you and there won't be any problems like racism or off-topic talk. Thanks.

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Hey A-Fighter, welcome to the forum. I just wanted to point out that being of the Islamic faith does not mean the Islamic race. Muslims are of many different races as Christians, Jews, etc. are. In other words, there is no such thing as an Islamic race. It would be the same as me saying being anti-american is racist.
Thank you. Can you please explain even further what you mean? I don't really get it, and if I try to answer your question now, I might not have understood you properly and give you a very different answer! Thanks again.
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In a way, it is unfair for you just to give me a verse from the Qur'an, because I did some research and did not find anything 'unusual' about these two verses. Yes, they may look 'vicious etc.' to you, but can you speak Arabic? No? Me neither, but I have no doubt that the hundreds of millions of people who can speak Arabic fluently will have no problem with these verses. I did get to know that Qur'an 8:22 is talking about the Quraish (Tribe of Jews). These were the people at the time of Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him). I can not tell you much else, and I am sorry for that, but I will try to answer your other questions as fairly as possible.

I have an english/arabic koran from CAIR (big time muslim rights group so I know it's a fair source) that's suppose to be the best translation out there. Also has some great footnotes and more reading to explain background info.

8:22 is for the jews but my footnotes from history say this: "...relates to all people who have come to know and understand the message of the Qur'an, but pay no heed to it."

For you to just give me a verse like that and expect me to give you a clear answer is (a bit) over the top, but then making your own comments about our Holy Book really goes too far. What are you here for? You want to know the truth, just like me, but you are really not helping me by being sarcastic. I mean, what do I get out of this discussion? Only hate from you! (Exaggerating here lol).

And I think that Islam considering me an idiot and a lesser being goes too far.

I think you get my true feelings regarding such verses in this so you do know where I'm coming from. I'm not at all the type of person to just be completely tolerant of religion, I question and critize it from my own standpoint. (I'm an atheist, in case you were wondering).

Can you please stop using such words? I don't know if you have noticed it, but you are really hurting my feelings. You may believe whatever you want, but you can use different, more 'normal' words, because I really hate it when someone speaks like that. Thank you for your understanding.

So as you can see I tried to answer some of your questions but it was very hard for me. Let's leave all the Wilders-Israel talk behind, and concentrate on the real issues, which is the movie Fitna lol. Did you know that Wilders wanted to rip out pages from the Qur'an instead of the phone-book? (Have you seen the movie yet?) The whole government of Holland (including his own party) was very angry at him because of stupid mistakes like this that he made haha. Anyway, good luck in your research and everything and I will post something back tomorrow evening (UK time). Please take note of what I told you and there won't be any problems like racism or off-topic talk. Thanks.

It is not my intent to hurt your feelings. It is my intent to show my feelings regarding Islam. As well as using facts to back up my postition. Islam is hateful against infidels and those items/ideas that aren't islamic in nature; Islam is very oppressive against women, other religions, homosexuals, and basic freedoms; Islam is quite violent as even Muhammad was a war leader himself and the jihadists that still fight today using fear and terrorism on the infidels of the world; well controlling would normally fall with opression I'd guess but it's nature as a all of a land would point to Islam controlling what goes on and what doesn't and that doesn't include basic human rights or freedoms for a modern world.

I have seen the movie more then a few times already. I have my own downloaded copy of the film as well. I don't blame him for wanting to tear out the pages of the koran, if you understood his message he has constantly said that he wants muslims to rip out the parts of the koran that are violent, oppressive and against the values of Holland.

It is never a mistake to use freedom to voice your opinion. The Dutch government didn't want to see more threats or boycotts against them. They also have ties to islamic countries that they have relations with. One should not need the approval of a government or a higher authority to use freedom of speech.

Edited by __Kratos__
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I will reply to this tomorrow evening (UK time). Goodnight.
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Thank you. Can you please explain even further what you mean? I don't really get it, and if I try to answer your question now, I might not have understood you properly and give you a very different answer! Thanks again.

I think that Stardrive was trying to make a point (a correct one too) that islam is not a race:

Peruse:

Negro-Race

Caucasian-Race

Oriental-Race

There are others..

Christianity-Belief system

Islam-Belief system

Judaism-Belief system

Hindu-Belief system

Atheist-Belief system

Deist-Belief system

One list is a list of physical attributes that describe typical characteristics of each race.

The other list is a list of Beliefs..

Huge difference in the two...But the term 'racist' is used lately (and incorrectly) by those to vilify those that have criticized islam...Trying to give criticism of a repressive idea system a negative image.. The word 'irony' come to mind here.

Making people of a certain color sit in the back of the bus was racism. Not letting your daughter or son date someone because of their color is racism. Giving people of different color different rights is racism. Not giving someone a job because of their skin color is racism...etc..

Criticizing islam and mohammed is just that..Criticism...not 'religism' (closest thing I could think of that would actually describe prejudice towards a specific religion..)

Being able to handle the criticism of a backwards set of beliefs (using only islams own words and phrases btw) without demanding censorship and having a raging riot...That's called joining the 21st century..

Edited by Pinky Floyd
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Hey A-Fighter, welcome to the forum. I just wanted to point out that being of the Islamic faith does not mean the Islamic race. Muslims are of many different races as Christians, Jews, etc. are. In other words, there is no such thing as an Islamic race. It would be the same as me saying being anti-american is racist.

You're right, racism generally refers only to prejudice, oppression or discrimination based on race. However, I think that this is irrelevant. By this definition antisemitism isn't racism. If it's not racism, it's something damn near to it. I think A-Fighter was referring to something close to antisemitism, or indeed Islamophobia (a term which many people on this board seem to dislike immensely).

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A Muslim guy owns the local paper shop near me.

He's a nice guy... but I never let my guard drop, to the fact that he could be a PJT

Potential Jihadist Terrorist.

The other day... I bought some milk, only to realise once I got home, it was twos day past the expiry date!

Now, I'm not saying he was deliberately trying to poison me- but, the potential exists, that this was in actual fact his intention.

Either way, I wasted my money... I definitely felt jihad....if you know what I mean?

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jihad you over. :lol: get it ji had you over a barrel :lol: get it? <_< ...........yeah thats right i did ^_^

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jihad you over. :lol: get it ji had you over a barrel :lol: get it? <_< ...........yeah thats right i did ^_^

Yep, think I'll go and make myself, a cheese and mohammed sandwich..

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Thank you. Can you please explain even further what you mean? I don't really get it, and if I try to answer your question now, I might not have understood you properly and give you a very different answer! Thanks again.

That’s ok, you got the most important part [welcome to the forum]. :) See Pinky Floyds post.

And thanks Pinky for clarifying my post in my absence.

You're right, racism generally refers only to prejudice, oppression or discrimination based on race. However, I think that this is irrelevant. By this definition antisemitism isn't racism. If it's not racism, it's something damn near to it. I think A-Fighter was referring to something close to antisemitism, or indeed Islamophobia (a term which many people on this board seem to dislike immensely).

Interesting point Dusty. Looks like we are going to have to invent a new word that describes discrimination against religions. There’s racism, why not religionism? While we’re at it, we need to invent a word for discrimination against a nationality. Dang, nationalism is already taken.. :lol:

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