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Dutch MP posts Islam film on web


__Kratos__
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I think that Stardrive was trying to make a point (a correct one too) that islam is not a race:

Peruse:

Negro-Race

Caucasian-Race

Oriental-Race

There are others..

Christianity-Belief system

Islam-Belief system

Judaism-Belief system

Hindu-Belief system

Atheist-Belief system

Deist-Belief system

Informative post Pinky Floyd, although... I was under the impression, sometimes, Negro can be a belief system as well.

Evidence?

I rest me case, your honour. ;)

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Bill Bill Kill Bill...

The clock goes on the wall silly.

Now pick up your jeans and go tidy your room.

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Quite a few years ago when I was in Junior High school, my friends and I used to hang out with these two muslim students during lunch. Our conversations would usually go to spirituality and what each other believed and why. The two students were strictly raised devout muslims. One time my friend asked them about Jihad and if they would kill. They said yes, we would even kill you or any infidel if we were in a Jihad.

We were young then and didn't really take them seriously. Now seeing what happened in 2001 and seeing the world in better as an adult, this sends chills down my spine and makes me truely wonder

how many muslims in America and around the world under the surface truely believe this... Is this why there aren't huge outcries from Islam when people kill in the name of allah?

This is why we are cautious and want to truely understand the islamic belief system. Where are there loop holes for people to believe things like this?

In the bible during old testament times God did direct the slaughtering of whole societies for whatever reasons at the time, but it was never open ended.

We can't find a scripture in the bible that would allow christians to be directed to kill innocent people for heavenly gain.

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Here is a link to a website that I want to share with you: Muslim Youth beaten to death by Danish criminals.

You see what the movie + the cartoons have already done? Believe me, this won't be the last thing you will hear about it.

I have an english/arabic koran from CAIR (big time muslim rights group so I know it's a fair source) that's suppose to be the best translation out there. Also has some great footnotes and more reading to explain background info.
WOW... I could never have imagined that you had a copy of the Qur'an! Do you know why I say this? Every time when I discuss things with non-Muslims, they just go to an anti-Islamic website, copy what they want, and just paste it. Sometimes, they will not even take a second look at what they are doing. But you, you can read through the Book and see for yourself what you want. To be honest, this would be a much better way for people like you to really understand what has been written in the Qur'an, instead of relying on what other people think about it.

And I think that Islam considering me an idiot and a lesser being goes too far. I think you get my true feelings regarding such verses in this so you do know where I'm coming from. I'm not at all the type of person to just be completely tolerant of religion, I question and critize it from my own standpoint. (I'm an atheist, in case you were wondering).
First, I need to know a bit more about your background and your beliefs etc, because then it will be easier for both of us to discuss the important issues. For example, if you are Atheist, do you believe in the Evolution Theory?

Islam is very oppressive against women, other religions, homosexuals, and basic freedoms; Islam is quite violent as even Muhammad was a war leader himself and the jihadists that still fight today using fear and terrorism on the infidels of the world; well controlling would normally fall with opression I'd guess but it's nature as a all of a land would point to Islam controlling what goes on and what doesn't and that doesn't include basic human rights or freedoms for a modern world.
Very oppressive towards women, freedom etc.? Shall I give you some facts?

Here is one: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world!

You want another one? Most people converting to Islam are not male, but female!

And here is the biggest fact of them all: ISLAM IS THE WORLD'S LARGEST RELIGION!

Let me tell you something: Islam is the fastest growing religion in America, in Europe, In Africa, in Asia, in Australia etc! Was it spread by the sword? Was it spread using any force? Of course not! These people have read the Qur'an and were instantly bonded to it, that is how powerful our Book truly is. Regarding the number of women who willingly converted to Islam, the number is much higher than for men. Is this because women are 'oppressed' and even 'tortured' in Islam? Haha who would believe such a thing?! This shows how misguided most people are regarding women in Islam and also on other subjects.

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Quite a few years ago when I was in Junior High school, my friends and I used to hang out with these two muslim students during lunch. Our conversations would usually go to spirituality and what each other believed and why. The two students were strictly raised devout Muslims. One time my friend asked them about Jihad and if they would kill. They said yes, we would even kill you or any infidel if we were in a Jihad.
The only thing that I believe is true in what you just said is 'Quite a few years ago when I was in Junior High school'. The rest, I don't see any truth in it. How do you know that these 2 people were 'devout Muslims'? The way they looked? The things he told you? Let me make something clear for everyone: Killing innocent people is NOT allowed in Islam, and if someone says 'Yes it is' then he is lying! Don't listen to such people because they have no knowledge of Islam. For example, I am a devout Muslim, but I also love you :D. I would never fight with anyone for no reason, let alone kill them because they don't believe the way I believe. It is not impossible to be a Muslim and still love your friends and neighbors you know!

Noble Qur'an 5:32. Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all of mankind. And whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.

You can't just go and kill all the non-believers (Especially their fellow class-mates), because that would contradict with the Holy Qur'an! So don't even listen to those people who claim to be Muslims but do inhuman acts, because they are listening to Shaytaan (Devil). Human life is precious!

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Here is a link to a website that I want to share with you: Muslim Youth beaten to death by Danish criminals.

You see what the movie + the cartoons have already done? Believe me, this won't be the last thing you will hear about it.

So that means people shouldn't share facts because some people use violence?

WOW... I could never have imagined that you had a copy of the Qur'an! Do you know why I say this? Every time when I discuss things with non-Muslims, they just go to an anti-Islamic website, copy what they want, and just paste it. Sometimes, they will not even take a second look at what they are doing. But you, you can read through the Book and see for yourself what you want. To be honest, this would be a much better way for people like you to really understand what has been written in the Qur'an, instead of relying on what other people think about it.

I used to do that but it didn't get me very far when debating muslims, I had to get a koran then. I have seen what is in the koran and that is why I argue against it.

First, I need to know a bit more about your background and your beliefs etc, because then it will be easier for both of us to discuss the important issues. For example, if you are Atheist, do you believe in the Evolution Theory?

I do agree with evolution. Not sure at all how evolution can be part of this thread though. :blink:

Very oppressive towards women, freedom etc.? Shall I give you some facts?

Here is one: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world!

You want another one? Most people converting to Islam are not male, but female!

And here is the biggest fact of them all: ISLAM IS THE WORLD'S LARGEST RELIGION!

Let me tell you something: Islam is the fastest growing religion in America, in Europe, In Africa, in Asia, in Australia etc! Was it spread by the sword? Was it spread using any force? Of course not! These people have read the Qur'an and were instantly bonded to it, that is how powerful our Book truly is. Regarding the number of women who willingly converted to Islam, the number is much higher than for men. Is this because women are 'oppressed' and even 'tortured' in Islam? Haha who would believe such a thing?! This shows how misguided most people are regarding women in Islam and also on other subjects.

Surah 4:34 Men shall take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truely devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!

There you have it, that islam oppresses women and even allows them to be beaten.

I really don't care what other people do, the other 5 billion people on this rock could convert to islam this weekend and it wouldn't change the facts that come out of the koran in regards to opression, lack of freedom and human rights and the hatred it puts out. Numbers don't make a group right, only change and actual progress towards peace does. That's something I can't ever see happening for islam because you can't change the words of a god into something else because they believe god is all knowing and all powerful. So women will and are getting beaten, homosexuals are harassed and put to death, infidels are regarded as slime of the earth and are murdered, freedom to islam means putting out death threats on those who aren't within islamic rules and their families and of course the basic human rights that the West holds are cut short in the koran and reduced to nothing in the islamic world as they crack down on free thought.

Though Islam has of course used violence to get it's way. Muhammad himself was a terrorist in his own day for the religion he created up. And it is still using violence today for it's goals.

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I do agree with evolution. Not sure at all how evolution can be part of this thread though.
This is all I needed to know in order to let the discussion really start. If I prove to you that a God exists, then you will have no choice but to accept Islam, have you? Tell me what you think about this.

Surah 4:34 Men shall take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truely devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!

There you have it, that islam oppresses women and even allows them to be beaten.

Here is the same verse but a different translation is used:

Noble Qur'an 4:34. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Notice any difference? This is because I used Abdullah Yusuf Ali's Qur'an, which is the most authentic translation. You should read the translation from that Qur'an first, because that is the one most people refer to. Anyway, you should 'beat' your wife as a last resort only, after you have tried everything else first. And even then, it should not be exaggerated, but just hitting her lightly.

I really don't care what other people do, the other 5 billion people on this rock could convert to islam this weekend and it wouldn't change the facts that come out of the koran in regards to opression, lack of freedom and human rights and the hatred it puts out.
So imagine if all people became Hindus, wouldn't that even make you think about the possibility that Hinduism might be the true path? I am just using an example here, but you get the idea. I have told you before, and yet I will tell you again... Who on Earth is stupid enough to follow a religion which promotes Death to All, Convert or Die?! WHO? Can't you see what I mean with this? The problem is this: You get your information about the Qur'an and about Islam from the wrong source. Check with Islamic scholars and with Islamic websites any information you want. Don't use your own imagination (too much) and don't listen to people on Anti-Islamic websites. If you want to know more about a religion, you will NOT go to a website or read a book that is Anti-That-Religion are you? Try it, and see what will happen.

Though Islam has of course used violence to get it's way. Muhammad himself was a terrorist in his own day for the religion he created up. And it is still using violence today for it's goals.
Give me some time on this one and I will answer it shortly.
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This is all I needed to know in order to let the discussion really start. If I prove to you that a God exists, then you will have no choice but to accept Islam, have you? Tell me what you think about this.

I think it'd be a waste of your time. You haven't even considered the morality of islam against mine. My morality do not match up to islamic morality.

Here is the same verse but a different translation is used:

Noble Qur'an 4:34. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Notice any difference? This is because I used Abdullah Yusuf Ali's Qur'an, which is the most authentic translation. You should read the translation from that Qur'an first, because that is the one most people refer to. Anyway, you should 'beat' your wife as a last resort only, after you have tried everything else first. And even then, it should not be exaggerated, but just hitting her lightly.

I don't agree at all with beating a woman even if it's "lightly". Only pathetic scum of the earth have the need to beat a woman and they aren't even men. Least that's how most people including myself view wife beaters in the West. So even with your different translation there is still beating women and there is the strong idea that women are to serve men and aren't as equal.

My translation is by Muhammad Asad.

So imagine if all people became Hindus, wouldn't that even make you think about the possibility that Hinduism might be the true path? I am just using an example here, but you get the idea. I have told you before, and yet I will tell you again... Who on Earth is stupid enough to follow a religion which promotes Death to All, Convert or Die?! WHO? Can't you see what I mean with this? The problem is this: You get your information about the Qur'an and about Islam from the wrong source. Check with Islamic scholars and with Islamic websites any information you want. Don't use your own imagination (too much) and don't listen to people on Anti-Islamic websites. If you want to know more about a religion, you will NOT go to a website or read a book that is Anti-That-Religion are you? Try it, and see what will happen.

No, it wouldn't. Hinduism is just as bad as Islam to me. It's a primitive mythology lacking decency, rights, and freedom.

Your aguement is if everybody else is doing it, you should do it yourself... I would strongly disagree with that. I've been one to think for myself rather then let someone else tell me what to think and how to act.

Well "stupid" is a strong term but it's fitting I suppose and I would agree with the idea that many people just fall into a religion rather then use their brain. "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell

I get the bulk of my infomation checked with my own koran. I read other sites that critize islam and I check it against the book. I have read through the koran and checked it out... As I said earlier. Kind of hard to claim my koran isn't good either... Since of course I got my koran from a muslim rights group. ;)

Give me some time on this one and I will answer it shortly.

To start, try checking out the caravan raids against Mecca.

Edited by __Kratos__
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...Woman beating is still woman beating. Oppessive behaviour is still oppressive behaviour.

You can't candy coat it.

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Your aguement is if everybody else is doing it, you should do it yourself... I would strongly disagree with that. I've been one to think for myself rather then let someone else tell me what to think and how to act.
Imagine if you were born and raised by a pack of wolves... Would you be able to talk like a human after 10 years? 20 years? No, you need people to tell you what to do, what is right and what is not. Most people know that if they breathe, they will stay alive. There are no such people who will say, 'I don't want to do what everyone else does!'. The same thing can be said about food and water. What I am trying to say is that you should ALSO look at what other people think, and not ONLY what others think.

I get the bulk of my infomation checked with my own koran. I read other sites that critize islam and I check it against the book. I have read through the koran and checked it out... As I said earlier. Kind of hard to claim my koran isn't good either... Since of course I got my koran from a muslim rights group. ;)
I never said that your copy of the Qur'an is 'false' or 'not right'. If I tell you that apples are more beneficial for a human being than bananas are, does that mean that bananas should be banned? No, it just means that apples are better. You can still eat a banana, but there are other things which are more beneficial for you (apples :D).

To start, try checking out the caravan raids against Mecca.
Here is a link that will explain many things very clearly to you, but it is quite long, so I can't just copy and paste everything. http://www.historynet.com/muhammad-the-warrior-prophet.htm.

I also want to point out that how on Earth could Prophet Mohammad promote Islam without taking part in battles? You don't know how complicated the situation was back then. There were many tribes and many different and powerful armies around at that time!

There is a man called Michael H. Hart, and this man made a book called 'The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History'. The title tells you what it is about, but I will explain it a bit further. Hart decided to choose Muhammad (Peace be upon him) over Jesus or Moses (Peace be on both of them) despite the fact that Islam was not the largest religion and that it was from a distant part of the world from where he lived. Hart attributes this to the fact that Muhammad was successful in both the religious and political realms. He also writes that Muhammad's role in the development of Islam is far more influential than Jezus's collaboration in the development of Christianity.

In other words, throughout the whole of history, in every corner of the Earth, there was no better (influential) person than our Prophet Mohammad! (Peace be upon him). Compare your comments with Mr. Hart's, and then you will notice that you were the one who was mistaken (People make mistakes). If the person who you described as being Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) really was the way you said he was, do you really think he would be in that list of 100 most influential people? That person will not even reach rank 5,999,999! He would be the last person that you can call influential, but NO, he is #1! Here is a section of Michael Hart's book: 'Prophet of Islam: Conqueror of Arabia: Hart recognized that ranking Muhammad first might be controversial, but felt that, from a secular historian's perspective, this was the correct choice because Muhammad is the only man to have been both a founder of a major world religion and a major military/political leader.'

PS: I have a great animation movie on my PC that follows Prophet Mohammad's life (Peace be upon him) and it explains everything in great detail. It is called 'Muhammad: The Last Prophet', and I really recommend it to you, because it explains everything from the Caravan raids to the revelation of the Qur'an.

Edited by A-Fighter
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This is not mine i got it from pakistani group

Disclaimer : This is purely for fun :D;)

During discussion with muslims I always get these answers from them, I

made a list of the most popular ones if anyone has more please list

them.

1. Read the Qur'an with an open mind

2. You took the verse out of context

3. Read the following verse

4. Read the verse before that one

5. Christians kill too

6. That Hadith is false

7. That Hadith is suspicious

8. You must know arabic to understand the Qur'an

9. Must be an error in the translation

10. What's your religion?

11. Allah knows your actions before you are born but you have free will

12. Muhammed is the last prophet because the Qur'an says so

13. Qur'an is true because Muhammed said so

14. Enemies of Islam wrote that Hadith

15. Aysha was 22 when she got married

16. Girls in the desert mature more quickly

17. She was 6 but she consented to marry Muhamed

18. Everybody is born a muslim

19. Muhammed was the first muslim

20. Jesus and Abraham were muslim

21. Adam was the first muslim

22. You must recite the shahada to become a muslim

23. Those muslims that kill muslims are not muslims

24. The russian police killed those children

25. 9/11 was a jewish conspiracy

26. Killing innocents is forbidden in Islam

27. Katrina was Allah's punishment on the Kuffar

28. Jewish used to stone their women too

29. Christians killed unbelievers too

30. Jews have a Tsunami machine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Who created you?

2. Allah created science.

3. Allah created stars, can't he shoot Jinnis with it?

4. Israel kills in one day, more than hitler killed during the

Holocaust.

5. Why don't you talk about Bush's crimes?

6. Mohammed didn't marry them for sex.

7. Why are you very racist?

8. You're a sick man (after providing the hadith in which Mohammed

gets busy with Aisha when she's 9).

9. Girls in deserts grow quicker than people in cold countries.

10. Women,generally speaking grow faster than men, mentally and

physically.

11. Are you stupid?

12. where do you live? tell me if you were a man (I swear to god).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1) what is your religion?

2) you know nothing about islam.

3) you can't judge muhammad with your inferior manmade morality.

4) muhammad's wars were defensive.

5) muhammad only took back what belongs to Muslims.

6) marrying little girls was common those days.

7) muhammad didn't have sex with her until she reached puberty.

muhammad brought peace and tolerance in arabia.

9) the bible is very violent.

10) look at the crusades!

11) you have never been a Muslim before!

12) you are a jew!

13) you must respect our beliefs.

14 ) aren't you afraid of hellfire ? you will be roasted and i'll

laugh at you!

15) you are a traitor to your nation and to your people , shame on

you!

16) you chose darkness instead of light.

17) quotes from qur'an like "they have their religion , and you have

yours"

1 muhammad took sex slaves only for their protection.

19) islam teaches tolerance for people of the book .

20) the qur'an prophets weren't hebrews , nor jews , they were

muslims!

21)Apostates should be killed as that is treason. All countries kill

those who commit treason!

22)Koran is very scientific. Scientists have said so many times.

23)Islam always wins.

24)God accepts only islam!

25)its never our fault , its the fault of Americans /Jews /.Hindus /Women

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Imagine if you were born and raised by a pack of wolves... Would you be able to talk like a human after 10 years? 20 years? No, you need people to tell you what to do, what is right and what is not. Most people know that if they breathe, they will stay alive. There are no such people who will say, 'I don't want to do what everyone else does!'. The same thing can be said about food and water. What I am trying to say is that you should ALSO look at what other people think, and not ONLY what others think.

And I do listen to what other people say and think. I can merely think for myself for what is right and what isn't. Islam is in no way right for me in morality, issues, beliefs and practice. Mythology doesn't appeal to me at all.

I never said that your copy of the Qur'an is 'false' or 'not right'. If I tell you that apples are more beneficial for a human being than bananas are, does that mean that bananas should be banned? No, it just means that apples are better. You can still eat a banana, but there are other things which are more beneficial for you (apples :D).

Well my banana is pretty good and it's pretty on the head of the nail.

Here is a link that will explain many things very clearly to you, but it is quite long, so I can't just copy and paste everything. http://www.historynet.com/muhammad-the-warrior-prophet.htm.

I also want to point out that how on Earth could Prophet Mohammad promote Islam without taking part in battles? You don't know how complicated the situation was back then. There were many tribes and many different and powerful armies around at that time!

I'm not going to read 6+ pages of entire text. Feel free though to quote from the site the good stuff you want to bring up.

Battles did take place but terrorism through raids and hatred did take place as well.

Well if islam was truely real and truely was the work of allah, you'd think that allah could have made his own words more convincing since he is supposely all knowing and all powerful? Plus you know allah could just reveal to everybody the message of the koran rather then just let a war leader of the time spout off about it. Just a few flaws in that line of thought.

There is a man called Michael H. Hart, and this man made a book called 'The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History'. The title tells you what it is about, but I will explain it a bit further. Hart decided to choose Muhammad (Peace be upon him) over Jesus or Moses (Peace be on both of them) despite the fact that Islam was not the largest religion and that it was from a distant part of the world from where he lived. Hart attributes this to the fact that Muhammad was successful in both the religious and political realms. He also writes that Muhammad's role in the development of Islam is far more influential than Jezus's collaboration in the development of Christianity.

In other words, throughout the whole of history, in every corner of the Earth, there was no better (influential) person than our Prophet Mohammad! (Peace be upon him). Compare your comments with Mr. Hart's, and then you will notice that you were the one who was mistaken (People make mistakes). If the person who you described as being Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) really was the way you said he was, do you really think he would be in that list of 100 most influential people? That person will not even reach rank 5,999,999! He would be the last person that you can call influential, but NO, he is #1! Here is a section of Michael Hart's book: 'Prophet of Islam: Conqueror of Arabia: Hart recognized that ranking Muhammad first might be controversial, but felt that, from a secular historian's perspective, this was the correct choice because Muhammad is the only man to have been both a founder of a major world religion and a major military/political leader.'

That doesn't prove anything. He choose people based on their impact in history, now if they were good or bad. If you look at the list, Hitler is on there as well. You can't tell me that Hitler was a stand up fellow.

PS: I have a great animation movie on my PC that follows Prophet Mohammad's life (Peace be upon him) and it explains everything in great detail. It is called 'Muhammad: The Last Prophet', and I really recommend it to you, because it explains everything from the Caravan raids to the revelation of the Qur'an.[/font]

An animation? Didn't the last people that made a drawing of Muhammad almost get murdered along with their families? :unsure2:

And the caravan raids are terrorism to everybody else that isn't muslim. They was an unprovoked attacks on innocents that has paved the way for jihadists to do the same up to today's world.

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Well, I am going to bed now, but tomorrow evening you can expect an answer to this:

Well if islam was truely real and truely was the work of allah, you'd think that allah could have made his own words more convincing since he is supposely all knowing and all powerful? Plus you know allah could just reveal to everybody the message of the koran rather then just let a war leader of the time spout off about it. Just a few flaws in that line of thought.

I will also try to reply to Prisha's post lol.

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The only thing that I believe is true in what you just said is 'Quite a few years ago when I was in Junior High school'. The rest, I don't see any truth in it. How do you know that these 2 people were 'devout Muslims'? The way they looked? The things he told you? Let me make something clear for everyone: Killing innocent people is NOT allowed in Islam, and if someone says 'Yes it is' then he is lying! Don't listen to such people because they have no knowledge of Islam. For example, I am a devout Muslim, but I also love you :D. I would never fight with anyone for no reason, let alone kill them because they don't believe the way I believe. It is not impossible to be a Muslim and still love your friends and neighbors you know!

Noble Qur'an 5:32. Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all of mankind. And whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.

You can't just go and kill all the non-believers (Especially their fellow class-mates), because that would contradict with the Holy Qur'an! So don't even listen to those people who claim to be Muslims but do inhuman acts, because they are listening to Shaytaan (Devil). Human life is precious!

Here we are trying to have a serious conversation on seriuos issues and I mention a fact and have no reason to lie about it and you claim 90% of what I said was false? Why should I even have a conversation on a forum online if EVERYTHING I say is going to be considered false just because its inconvenient for you? What I said was true and if you don't believe it, then forget about it and go somewhere else. I knew these two, and saw them quite often at school. So don't tell me what I say I false!

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Noble Qur'an 5:32. Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all of mankind. And whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.

You can't just go and kill all the non-believers (Especially their fellow class-mates), because that would contradict with the Holy Qur'an! So don't even listen to those people who claim to be Muslims but do inhuman acts, because they are listening to Shaytaan (Devil). Human life is precious![/font]

Well, a noble verse indeed A-Fighter, and very comforting.

Untill we look at the FULL version of the verse, which is...

5:32: "For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. "

Notice the difference ? Killing IS sanctioned in the case of manslaughter, or "corruption in the earth". So what is 'corruption in the earth' ? Well...in a nutshell.. it means NOT beleiving in Mohammed/Allah, and defying the spread of Islam.

In other words... you are allowed to kill murderers and non-believers.

Meow Purr.

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In other words... you are allowed to kill murderers and non-believers.

Meow Purr.

Cunning...very cunning, like a get out clause.

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Cunning...very cunning, like a get out clause.

...Cat APPOVES of get-out Claws's :P

Meow Purr.

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Muslim leaders around the world have condemned the film, yet have urged people to "not be provoked".
They said not to be provoked because it would show how truly miserable their religion would be to be provoked about the words that come straight from the koran and their religious leaders! LOL! Of course they don't want muslims to get provoked. It would expose them for what they are :D Do you truly not see this?

Just think how STUPID it would be if Christians all over the world began killing muslims just because a muslim journalist published a video showing christian leaders reading passages from the bible! ROTFLMFAO!!!

The fact is - all it takes to incite a true muslim to violence is to draw a picture of that dude from a long time ago that raped little girls and founded that religion of peace that demands murder on a horrific scale.

Are you muslim and angry about that last paragraph? If so, tell me what it was I wrote that isn't taken directly from the koran or recent history.

Later peaceful dudes!

Well, a noble verse indeed A-Fighter, and very comforting.

Untill we look at the FULL version of the verse, which is...

5:32: "For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. "

Notice the difference ? Killing IS sanctioned in the case of manslaughter, or "corruption in the earth". So what is 'corruption in the earth' ? Well...in a nutshell.. it means NOT beleiving in Mohammed/Allah, and defying the spread of Islam.

In other words... you are allowed to kill murderers and non-believers.

He had to have already known that. What sort of idjit would dare to take a quote whose context is unknown and post it to a public message board?!?!?!?

Since I don't think he is an idjit, then he must have know the true evil purpose of that quote and is one of the many terrorist supporters whose main job seems to be trying to keep the true meaning of islam hidden from westerners.

Because if we finally woke up to the magnitude of the evil then we might very well see the first nuking of civilian population centers in over half a century.

Edited by Repoman
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Anyway, you should 'beat' your wife as a last resort only, after you have tried everything else first.
I am guessing that by "try everything else first" you mean "talking".

Let's say you ask your wife not to go with her male co-workers to a work-related event and she refuses.

So you step it up a notch.

Now you TELL her not to go.

No luck?

YELL AT HER AND TELL HER NOT TO GO!

Oooops, last resort time! Time to take off your belt and whip her like a dog.

Nice little peaceful religion! Sanctioned domestic violence.

Edited by Repoman
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the days when Christainity was a thuggish teenager pushing others around (such as during the crusades
You do know that the crusades were launched in response to the MUSLIMS INVADING PALESTINE - don't you?
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Well, a noble verse indeed A-Fighter, and very comforting.

Untill we look at the FULL version of the verse, which is...

5:32: "For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. "

Notice the difference ? Killing IS sanctioned in the case of manslaughter, or "corruption in the earth". So what is 'corruption in the earth' ? Well...in a nutshell.. it means NOT beleiving in Mohammed/Allah, and defying the spread of Islam.

In other words... you are allowed to kill murderers and non-believers.

Meow Purr.

Good work on bringing out the full verse. I am amazed that A-fighter would literally pick half a verse, then you brought out the rest of it that actually exemplifies what this world is up against when fighting this war on terror. It is the open ended nature of that phrase "or corruption in the earth" that gives birth to what we see today. "corruption on the earth" could mean anything, and be taught in mosques with little defense because how do you prove against a verse like that? It's high time we open our eyes to this.

We here on the civilian front have a job in this war too. That is to make known the dangers of what verses like the one above can breed and open peoples eyes to this so called "peaceful" religion while not resorting to unnecessary violence ourselves we will leave that to the troops fighing overseas so hopefully we don't have to fight on American, European soil or wherever.

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They said not to be provoked because it would show how truly miserable their religion would be to be provoked about the words that come straight from the koran and their religious leaders! LOL! Of course they don't want muslims to get provoked. It would expose them for what they are :D Do you truly not see this?

Just think how STUPID it would be if Christians all over the world began killing muslims just because a muslim journalist published a video showing christian leaders reading passages from the bible! ROTFLMFAO!!!

The fact is - all it takes to incite a true muslim to violence is to draw a picture of that dude from a long time ago that raped little girls and founded that religion of peace that demands murder on a horrific scale.

Nope not a muslim, and nope not angry.

But your logic makes no sense. By your logic there is no way that muslims could act to appease you.

Had religious leaders ordered muslims to be provoked by the video you would have taken it as evidence of their culture's primitiveness and proneness to violence.

Now that they did not, you have taken is as evidence of them trying to hide their culture's primitiveness.

So the way I see it: You've already made up your mind that muslims are violent, and now anything they do will support your perception of muslims' violence.

And your comments about a mohammed being a child rapist etc. are just silly and unnecessary.

The part I bolded was also incoherent to me. I'm not aware of any event where muslims have done what you seem to imply. In other words: I'm not aware of muslims all over the world killing Christians just because a Christian journalist published a video showing Christian leaders reading out passages from the Koran.

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Before I reply to your 'comments', I just want to tell you something. You cannot just come to this discussion, post some rude and provocative things, and expect anyone to believe you. If you have read through the thread, then you might have noticed that it is (quite) peaceful here. We ask questions and we reply to each other. Do you really think that someone wants to reply to the nonsense you just posted? Do you?

Just think how STUPID it would be if Christians all over the world began killing muslims just because a muslim journalist published a video showing christian leaders reading passages from the bible! ROTFLMFAO!!!
What do you mean with this? When did any Muslim kill a Christian because the Christian published a video of an Imam giving a lecture? What are you talking about? If you are a Christian, then I want to tell you this: You don't care if Jesus (Peace be upon him) is being portrayed in a very bad way, if people make fun of him etc. We Muslims have got more respect for him than Christians themselves have! And Prophet Mohammad is even more important to us, so how can some cartoonists (Who clearly need some art lessons :D) make drawings of him? We are not like Christians, who have no problems with foolish cartoonists make fun of their God! No, nobody has the right to do such things. And why do you laugh? Because of what you said was funny? Or because you want it to be funny? Just to provoke Muslim anger, and not much else? Next time, be serious and think about what you are posting.

The fact is - all it takes to incite a true muslim to violence is to draw a picture of that dude from a long time ago that raped little girls and founded that religion of peace that demands murder on a horrific scale.
True Muslims huh? So there are true Muslims and un-true (fake?) Muslims? Every Muslim would be angry if he or she saw what the cartoons contained. Read this Hadith:

"None of you becomes a believer until I am dearer to him than his children, his parents and all mankind." (Bukhari and Muslim).

How can we love him more than our parents, our brothers, our everything, and yet stand by and do nothing when fools make fun of him?! When the cartoons were published, did you notice any new wars starting? Me neither, because we will never just 'demand murder on a horrific scale'. Instead, the Muslim countries decided to boycott Denmark and its products, making its markets cripple. Yes, there were quite a lot of protests, but most of them were peaceful, and with hundreds of millions of Muslims world-wide, you cannot just hope that nobody will act in such a manner. And stop talking about our Prophet (Peace be upon him) like that, for you have no knowledge about him! Who are you to say such things? Go read some books or look trough some websites. If you don't know a lot about our religion, then ask, instead of going into attack-mode the moment you post here!

Are you muslim and angry about that last paragraph? If so, tell me what it was I wrote that isn't taken directly from the koran or recent history.
Everything. Seriously... How can you invite people to reply to such a thing?! Here is a verse from the Qur'an that describes people like you perfectly.

Noble Qur'an 15:6. And they say. O you (Muhammad) to whom the Dhikr (the Qur’an) has been sent down: ‘Verily you are a mad man (Possessed)'.

What can I tell you people that will make you wake up and notice for the first time that you are the ones that are mistaken, and you are the ones who are deceived! Listen to what I tell you for I have more knowledge about these things. For example, if you want to know more about a football team (Let's say Manchester United), are you going to ask the manager of that club or are you going to ask a doctor? Yes, you can ask both of them, but the manager will know much more of course. So please pay attention to what I am telling you and you might learn something new.

He had to have already known that. What sort of idjit would dare to take a quote whose context is unknown and post it to a public message board?!?!?!? Since I don't think he is an idjit, then he must have know the true evil purpose of that quote and is one of the many terrorist supporters whose main job seems to be trying to keep the true meaning of islam hidden from westerners.
OK, I misquoted it a little bit, so come here and torture me! Don't be stupid... I just wanted to show you the main principles, but I see that some of you actually research for themselves. Well done, Ships-cat, for finding the true translation of the verse, but as you can see it does not make much difference. I have no time to explain this further, but tomorrow I will make this point clearer.
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