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Pteriax

Spiritual warfare / Astral Combat

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TheResearcher
Okay, i'm sorry for the inflammatory remarks i made. I will keep it friendly.

I am sorry Louis, for any unkind words i may have said.

We are both adults, i'm sure we can discuss this further with more restraint.

I'm sure you wern't directing that at me since you said nothing bad to me ^^. Anyway, I think it's a good idea to make your mind up after experiencing a lucid dream. Just don't let it run away with you like it has for others. Just remember it's all in the mind ;)

I shall add 'IN MY OPINION' to keep everyone happy :o

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MaggieDruydess
Absence of proof is proof of nothing. It might not mean something isn't a reality, but the fact is any argument could be justified by that statement. AP has no evidence or proof, moreover it has been explained extremely well by science. Therefore, the logical and sensible response is that AP does not exist in the sense some people are saying on here.

I'd love to have my experience explained by science. I posted it, what was yout take on it?

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Resonance
I'd love to have my experience explained by science. I posted it, what was yout take on it?

Hehe, well my take on the matter.. and whole subject is..... people can 'try' and prove one thing or another, but it really just comes down to experience...

so, untill it happens to them... they won't understand.

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louis_last
Okay, i'm sorry for the inflammatory remarks i made. I will keep it friendly.

I am sorry Louis, for any unkind words i may have said.

We are both adults, i'm sure we can discuss this further with more restraint.

no apology necessary. I think ultimately this happens to everybody and for some people it's just a lucid dream but for other people it has to be something more. it's not a big deal.

who are you sponsored by?

Edited by louis_last

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NoTC
I'd love to have my experience explained by science. I posted it, what was yout take on it?

Herein lies the problem..... we only have your account of this. No evidence, no proof. Science has already explained what this phenomena is.

I can say that I flew yesterday. No one was around to see it. A controlled testing environment would prove if I was telling the truth.

Just because a group of people want very badly for something to exist doesn't mean it's going to.

: )

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Resonance
no apology necessary. I think ultimately this happens to everybody and for some people it's just a lucid dream but for other people it has to be something more. it's not a big deal.

who are you sponsored by?

Prestige.

Not a big company, sadly. Just a small one in Portland, OR.

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MaggieDruydess
Herein lies the problem..... we only have your account of this. No evidence, no proof. Science has already explained what this phenomena is.

I can say that I flew yesterday. No one was around to see it. A controlled testing environment would prove if I was telling the truth.

Just because a group of people want very badly for something to exist doesn't mean it's going to.

: )

what is it? thats what I was asking, and I was well prepared to be called a liar, so no offense taken. I also see little point in trying to get my mother to verify because she too would be called a liar, so, this is a no win situation for everyone involed. Thanks for being so diplomatic about it though.

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Resonance
QUOTE (NoTC @ Jan 28 2009, 11:45 AM)

Herein lies the problem..... we only have your account of this. No evidence, no proof. Science has already explained what this phenomena is.

I can say that I flew yesterday. No one was around to see it. A controlled testing environment would prove if I was telling the truth.

Just because a group of people want very badly for something to exist doesn't mean it's going to.

: )

Okay, how do you expect people to 'show' you.. ?

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NoTC
what is it? thats what I was asking, and I was well prepared to be called a liar, so no offense taken. I also see little point in trying to get my mother to verify because she too would be called a liar, so, this is a no win situation for everyone involed. Thanks for being so diplomatic about it though.

I didn't call you a liar. You were having a dream. You saw her in a dream doing something she was actually doing. It's similar in a way to deja vu. Many people have these types of experiences that seem to defy all logic. But it doesn't means the odds aren't going to be in our favor once in a while. I've had conversations with people and finished sentences for them. Doesn't mean I'm psychic, it means I simply had enough information to prepare what I was going to say before someone else has the chance to. Sometimes things like these happen. You just have to watch who you listen to when asking advice because people are going to tell you what AP is all about. I haven't met a car mechanic who knows how to do everything I want done to my car. Why would I trust someone to advice me on a blank subject?

Okay, how do you expect people to 'show' you.. ?

I've already tried to show myself. I have also tried to find proof through my roommates participating in the same experiments. I did my own tests with myself, and the help of some friends/roommates for about 3 years. I achieved what believers call astral projection, but found that I was only dreaming.

As I stated in another thread:

Despite all of the reading, experimenting, etc... one thing didn't catch my attention until recently that gave me a logical explanation of why these are dreams. You have imagination. You dream. In some cases people are able to control those dreams and create any world they'd like to live in. You can do this in your own mind, ALL of it. Your brain reorganizes information (think defrag) when you sleep. But one thing you cannot deny is how a brain processes information sent to it via the optic nerves. In order to truly be able to function in the astral plane, one would need a means by which to process basic sensory input. Without that, one could never see in the astral plane. And since we don't have eyes conveniently located outside of our bodies to bring along for the ride, with a really long optic nerve to carry information back to our brains, then how is it possible? Physics isn't going to change here on earth (where the "astral plane") is located, so that means light is not altered (as those claiming AP exists) have stated by saying they can see while being outside of the brain. No optical nerve, no brain processing the information, no leaving the body.

I also find it ironic that the government would scrap a program it spent money on that WOULD have been of great benefit. Although the program was an interesting thought, it did not yield results which would have been easy to see firsthand.

My belief on the subject stems from everything I've read/done over the years to find out through and by myself, and all of the information I've read over the years.

I'm going to bed now. Ambien kicks in hard.

Night all! : )

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DrawingPics
I didn't call you a liar. You were having a dream. You saw her in a dream doing something she was actually doing. It's similar in a way to deja vu. Many people have these types of experiences that seem to defy all logic. But it doesn't means the odds aren't going to be in our favor once in a while. I've had conversations with people and finished sentences for them. Doesn't mean I'm psychic, it means I simply had enough information to prepare what I was going to say before someone else has the chance to. Sometimes things like these happen. You just have to watch who you listen to when asking advice because people are going to tell you what AP is all about. I haven't met a car mechanic who knows how to do everything I want done to my car. Why would I trust someone to advice me on a blank subject?
So you are saying you know everything about the world? If you don't, why are you talking about non real when you don't know what it is?

I've already tried to show myself. I have also tried to find proof through my roommates participating in the same experiments. I did my own tests with myself, and the help of some friends/roommates for about 3 years. I achieved what believers call astral projection, but found that I was only dreaming.
Then it was dreaming. If you don't have astral projection, how can you compare?

As I stated in another thread:

Despite all of the reading, experimenting, etc... one thing didn't catch my attention until recently that gave me a logical explanation of why these are dreams. You have imagination. You dream. In some cases people are able to control those dreams and create any world they'd like to live in. You can do this in your own mind, ALL of it. Your brain reorganizes information (think defrag) when you sleep. But one thing you cannot deny is how a brain processes information sent to it via the optic nerves. In order to truly be able to function in the astral plane, one would need a means by which to process basic sensory input. Without that, one could never see in the astral plane. And since we don't have eyes conveniently located outside of our bodies to bring along for the ride, with a really long optic nerve to carry information back to our brains, then how is it possible? Physics isn't going to change here on earth (where the "astral plane") is located, so that means light is not altered (as those claiming AP exists) have stated by saying they can see while being outside of the brain. No optical nerve, no brain processing the information, no leaving the body.

Why was it logical?

I also find it ironic that the government would scrap a program it spent money on that WOULD have been of great benefit. Although the program was an interesting thought, it did not yield results which would have been easy to see firsthand.
I wonder if you have read why they had to stop or you just ignored it.

My belief on the subject stems from everything I've read/done over the years to find out through and by myself, and all of the information I've read over the years.
Ahh you are hardworking indeed.

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MaggieDruydess
I didn't call you a liar. You were having a dream. You saw her in a dream doing something she was actually doing. It's similar in a way to deja vu. Many people have these types of experiences that seem to defy all logic. But it doesn't means the odds aren't going to be in our favor once in a while.

Night all! : )

I did not dream my mother calling me and telling me she saw me in the mirror. So there is still mroe to be explained.

Good night.

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NoTC
So you are saying you know everything about the world? If you don't, why are you talking about non real when you don't know what it is?

Then it was dreaming. If you don't have astral projection, how can you compare?

Why was it logical?

I wonder if you have read why they had to stop or you just ignored it.

Ahh you are hardworking indeed.

I do know what it is. It's DREAMING. Dreaming is real. : )

Dreaming and astral projection are the same thing. : ) More on this one below!

Because logic is real. AP is dreaming : )

They stopped it because a 15% success rate on guessing where things were located is equal to that of guesswork they could have paid ANYONE to do. Oh, you must have ignored that part in your research. : )

I'm not just making up an opinion based on hearsay. : )

Here's what's really funny about all of this... I experienced it. The new age kids who WANT this to be real will tell me I have done astral projection when I explain my dreams. Having done it and KNOWING full well that it has absolutely nothing to do with leaving my body. Having said that part, once I cross that line and say I WAS DREAMING, all of the sudden it becomes, "Oh, you can't do it. You know nothing about it. How can you compare?" Classic! I can compare because it is the same thing. Apples to Apples. I find it even more ironic that some of the people who will argue this with me have not even tried this for themselves.

That's the difference here. I HAVE done it. So please spare me the "you don't know what you're talking about" garbage. The semantics have become absolutely lame. If you want to prove a point, show us all something tangible. Bye Bye : D

I did not dream my mother calling me and telling me she saw me in the mirror. So there is still mroe to be explained.

Good night.

How is it your optical nerve worked from miles away when you claim you were not in your body?

If you were able to do this once, you should be able to do it again in a controlled environment, being the only person ever to prove this whole thing to be true.

Edited by NoTC

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MaggieDruydess
How is it your optical nerve worked from miles away when you claim you were not in your body?

If you were able to do this once, you should be able to do it again in a controlled environment, being the only person ever to prove this whole thing to be true.

SO you are proposing what? I spend money I do not have to go somewhere strange and lay around and trust a bunch of strangers while I do something to satisfy you?

What tools will be used to measure, and observe?

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John from Lowell

In my view, it is our conditioning that determines our perceptions. There is the reality perception about the existance of unseen things and there is the experience of those who work with the unseen. I tend to respect all perceptions as valid. I see each person as a creator God. What they have been conditioned to think and feel is what they will perceive and thus create.

This actually ties into the OP's conclusions about spiritual warfare and astral combat. My experience and perceptions are quite different. Everything is about love and the forming of harmony between different perceptions of reality. With me there is no danger or need to protect myself from different aspects of myself. I see everything as connected and an aspect of me.

John

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eight bits
I very much thought the same way until I 'dreamed' one night of standing behind my mother (who lives 5 miles away) watching her put make up on and getting ready to go out to dinner with my dad. Nothing seemed strange about it except that my mother called me and woke me to tell me she 'saw' me in her mirror.

That's very interesting, Maggie. That's an outright bilocation report.

How long ago was this? Did you and your mother make any kind of independent record of your respective experiences?

You mention your father. Was he in your mother's house at the time? Did he see or hear anything relevant?

Herein lies the problem..... we only have your account of this. No evidence, no proof.

Yes, and yet here we are on a discussion board, where there is never any proof, and there's never going to be. And yet, unaccountably, many of us stick around.

If you were able to do this once, you should be able to do it again...

Why? You claim that "this" doesn't exist, and yet you also claim to know when it works. Which is it?

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MaggieDruydess
That's very interesting, Maggie. That's an outright bilocation report.

How long ago was this? Did you and your mother make any kind of independent record of your respective experiences?

You mention your father. Was he in your mother's house at the time? Did he see or hear anything relevant?

It was about a year and a half ago right around christmas time. I do not think my mother made a journal or anything to keep track of the even, strange things are always happening in our homes and with eachother. Yes, my father was home, he was in the living room waiting on my mom to finish getting ready so they could leave. He saw nothing but heard my mom when she turned around saying my name thinking I had come over and came into the bathroom behind her without her hearing.

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eight bits

Thank you for answering, Maggie. That's very interesting. Including what your father adds to the overall picture of the incident, a witness of the naturalness of your mother's spontaneous reaction.

You must convince your mother to take up journaling!

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NoTC
SO you are proposing what? I spend money I do not have to go somewhere strange and lay around and trust a bunch of strangers while I do something to satisfy you?

What tools will be used to measure, and observe?

Strangers? I did the experiments with friends/roommates. Didn't cost me anything. You wouldn't be satisfying me. You'd be satisfying this for all who believe who for some reason always come up empty handed.

In my view, it is our conditioning that determines our perceptions. There is the reality perception about the existance of unseen things and there is the experience of those who work with the unseen. I tend to respect all perceptions as valid. I see each person as a creator God. What they have been conditioned to think and feel is what they will perceive and thus create.

This actually ties into the OP's conclusions about spiritual warfare and astral combat. My experience and perceptions are quite different. Everything is about love and the forming of harmony between different perceptions of reality. With me there is no danger or need to protect myself from different aspects of myself. I see everything as connected and an aspect of me.

John

The brain tumor my grandmother had before she died made her believe she was living in the 50's. Does that perception change reality?

Why? You claim that "this" doesn't exist, and yet you also claim to know when it works. Which is it?

If one makes a claim, he or she should prove it. I know for a fact if I had X-men powers, I'd have 3 video recorders rolling at all times, and I'd be posting videos all over the internet.

But.......... it isn't going to happen. As this has been requested time and again with zero results.

Naptime! Ambien rocks.

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eight bits
If one makes a claim, he or she should prove it.

I disagree. This is a discussion board. If someone makes a claim, then she should discuss it, and answer questions about it.

Maggie did answer my questions. She has met her burden.

You, in contrast, didn't answer my question about your statement, which was based on your claimed expertise. An utterly unsubstantiated claim, I hasten to add.

Further, to compare her report to something involving X-men powers is inflammatory and hostile.

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MaggieDruydess
Strangers? I did the experiments with friends/roommates. Didn't cost me anything. You wouldn't be satisfying me. You'd be satisfying this for all who believe who for some reason always come up empty handed.

You would not beleive the word of my friends anymore then you so my own. I could have friends come here and post their experiences from my workings for them, and my remote observations of situations with them. You would then require video evidence or medical data, in the end it would all be moot.

If I am going to do an experiment for you then it should be done scientifically, by trained people who have no relation to me (Under the supervision of someone I trust, or someone I trust being there). Even then any 'evidence' could be written off as anomolies just as al the results from Twin stidues have been. (I am a twin by the way).

I admire skeptics for their logical thought porcesses most times, but some requests can never be satisfied because no matter how hard the evidence it can always be dismissed because most of us are not spiritually advanced enough to understand the results.

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John from Lowell
The brain tumor my grandmother had before she died made her believe she was living in the 50's. Does that perception change reality?

Yes that perception was Her reality just as surly as your perception is Your reality. That was exactly my point.

In you mind and in my mind and in the mind of every human is a perception of reality. That reality is real to each of us. We have been conditioned to have a perception in one way or another. Your grandmother had a brain tumor. Each of us has various factors that determine our reality perceptions.

When you study history you could realize that as each 100 years or so goes by the collective reality perceptions change. Most of humanity is not conscious that perceptions are always evolving.

John

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NoTC
I disagree. This is a discussion board. If someone makes a claim, then she should discuss it, and answer questions about it.

Maggie did answer my questions. She has met her burden.

You, in contrast, didn't answer my question about your statement, which was based on your claimed expertise. An utterly unsubstantiated claim, I hasten to add.

Further, to compare her report to something involving X-men powers is inflammatory and hostile.

I did answer. BEFORE you asked, in contrast. I hasten to add, you didn't bother reading. Please read before asking questions that have already been answered... MULTIPLE TIMES.

It is not inflammatory and hostile. It's a comparison. Your perception is not everyone else's reality.

You would not beleive the word of my friends anymore then you so my own. I could have friends come here and post their experiences from my workings for them, and my remote observations of situations with them. You would then require video evidence or medical data, in the end it would all be moot.

If I am going to do an experiment for you then it should be done scientifically, by trained people who have no relation to me (Under the supervision of someone I trust, or someone I trust being there). Even then any 'evidence' could be written off as anomolies just as al the results from Twin stidues have been. (I am a twin by the way).

I admire skeptics for their logical thought porcesses most times, but some requests can never be satisfied because no matter how hard the evidence it can always be dismissed because most of us are not spiritually advanced enough to understand the results.

But there is no evidence or proof. There are only the scientific explanations which are the logical, satisfactory answer. People merely want more, so they pretend there is more.

Yes that perception was Her reality just as surly as your perception is Your reality. That was exactly my point.

In you mind and in my mind and in the mind of every human is a perception of reality. That reality is real to each of us. We have been conditioned to have a perception in one way or another. Your grandmother had a brain tumor. Each of us has various factors that determine our reality perceptions.

When you study history you could realize that as each 100 years or so goes by the collective reality perceptions change. Most of humanity is not conscious that perceptions are always evolving.

John

You just proved my point. Perception does not make anything real. Just because someone perceives something to be there, it doesn't make it real. We do not live in the Matrix.

Each 100 years? History has shown me there have been technological achievements which change the way we go about living life. Technology has taken the place of spirituality in that fewer people depend on religion or God, rather a doctor per say, can take care of their problems, so on and so forth.

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MaggieDruydess

Whats the point in pretending when there is something real happening?

Whats the point in lieing when the truth simply is?

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eight bits
I did answer. BEFORE you asked, in contrast.

My question was posed in post # 140 of this thread.

You claim that "this" doesn't exist, and yet you also claim to know when it works. Which is it?

asking you to clarify a remark that you made in post #137. You made no post between 137 and 140.

So, you did not answer my question. And you still haven't answered my question.

I read just fine.

Your perception is not everyone else's reality.

Nor is yours.

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DrawingPics

Ok just read the links

It is not inflammatory and hostile. It's a comparison.

http://www.happierabroad.com/Debunking_Ske...ments/Page4.htm

But there is no evidence or proof. There are only the scientific explanations which are the logical, satisfactory answer. People merely want more, so they pretend there is more.

http://www.happierabroad.com/Debunking_Ske...ments/Page1.htm

Edited by AGoodWriter

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