Why? (THIS IS FOR SKEPTICS)

[M.M.J.R]

Ok. I personally am a believer in the paranormal, but i would like to here from some skeptics on the matter of ghosts, Why don't you believe in them? How can you explain alll the things that have happened? Do you really think 100% that there's nothing else out there? I just want to see how skeptics think. Thank You.

[Electra Rain]

Ok. I personally am a believer in the paranormal, but i would like to here from some skeptics on the matter of ghosts, Why don't you believe in them? How can you explain alll the things that have happened? Do you really think 100% that there's nothing else out there? I just want to see how skeptics think. Thank You.

I'm far from being a skeptic, but I can relate to how you feel about them...

[Leonardo]

I guess I qualify as a skeptic.

Personally I accept that 'ghosts' might exist. I do believe there is something in us that makes us who we are and we are not just the sum of the neuro-chemical reactions in our brains, so I accept that which makes us a 'person' (our soul if you will) may be able to continue after the death of our physical body.

As for other 'entities', I'm far from convinced these have any existence outside anyone's mind. Could they exist? Yes, but I have encountered no proof of such - with all due respect to those here who have stories to relate - that cannot be explained far more convincingly with psychology (and sometimes physiology). As my sig quote states, a 'miracle' should only be accepted if the mundane explanation is more remarkable than the miraculous one.

It seems that certain of these entities are a problem only to those who have a religious belief of some kind. This in itself seems to indicate the existence of these entities depends on belief and should therefore be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism. Our minds are very powerful and can 'create' a reality which might seem very evident to ourselves, but exists only within the boundaries of our own fear combined with imagination.

[Electra Rain]

I guess I qualify as a skeptic.

Personally I accept that 'ghosts' might exist. I do believe there is something in us that makes us who we are and we are not just the sum of the neuro-chemical reactions in our brains, so I accept that which makes us a 'person' (our soul if you will) may be able to continue after the death of our physical body.

As for other 'entities', I'm far from convinced these have any existence outside anyone's mind. Could they exist? Yes, but I have encountered no proof of such - with all due respect to those here who have stories to relate - that cannot be explained far more convincingly with psychology (and sometimes physiology). As my sig quote states, a 'miracle' should only be accepted if the mundane explanation is more remarkable than the miraculous one.

It seems that certain of these entities are a problem only to those who have a religious belief of some kind. This in itself seems to indicate the existence of these entities depends on belief and should therefore be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism. Our minds are very powerful and can 'create' a reality which might seem very evident to ourselves, but exists only within the boundaries of our own fear combined with imagination.

I feel your far from a skeptic Leonardo, just like the rest of us your on a quest for the truth....If my memoy serves me correcty I did watch a program that discussed how our minds could project a holagraphic image or images from the past or present, although I believe in ghost, which is to say I believe there is life after death, which leads me to believe in reincarnation and past memories, psychic communication and the power of the mind.

[Leonardo]

I would say I'm definitely a skeptic, Electra. Many on here do confuse skepticism with cynicism, however.

Nice to see you again, btw. Been a while.

[Electra Rain]

I would say I'm definitely a skeptic, Electra. Many on here do confuse skepticism with cynicism, however.

Nice to see you again, btw. Been a while.

Yes, I had been a busy bee, and it was a devoted fan to my post who had brought me back, but coming back was worth it:)

[LadyHay]

Many on here do confuse skepticism with cynicism, however.

I was going to say that also. It is also flung around here sometimes like a bad word. I like being sceptical. It makes me less gullible and a better critical thinker. I do believe in something after death, but I'm reluctant to call it ghosts. If we did not have sceptics, we wouldn't have these fascinating conversations on this here board!

Edited to add (dang these afterthoughts!):

Why don't you believe in them?

See above

How can you explain alll the things that have happened?

All the things that have happened. Wow, that is a vast subject. I will use the general phrase "paranormal events" just so were kind of on the same page.

I would say there are millions of explanations. Some "paranormal events" are easy to recreate. Some "paranormal events" are made up. Some are mistaken events. Some are assumed events. Some "paranormal events" are simply unexplainable (however, unexplained does not necessarily equal "paranormal" either).

Do you really think 100% that there's nothing else out there?

IMO, a good sceptic would not be closed to that possibility.

Edited April 4, 2008 by LadyHay

[M.M.J.R]

I was going to say that also. It is also flung around here sometimes like a bad word. I like being sceptical. It makes me less gullible and a better critical thinker. I do believe in something after death, but I'm reluctant to call it ghosts. If we did not have sceptics, we wouldn't have these fascinating conversations on this here board!

Edited to add (dang these afterthoughts!):

See above

All the things that have happened. Wow, that is a vast subject. I will use the general phrase "paranormal events" just so were kind of on the same page.

I would say there are millions of explanations. Some "paranormal events" are easy to recreate. Some "paranormal events" are made up. Some are mistaken events. Some are assumed events. Some "paranormal events" are simply unexplainable (however, unexplained does not necessarily equal "paranormal" either).

IMO, a good sceptic would not be closed to that possibility.

I'm not saying that every Strange thing that happens is realated to ghosts, there"s aliens to! JK. But I understand what your saying.

[Electra Rain]

I'm not saying that every Strange thing that happens is realated to ghosts, there"s aliens to! JK. But I understand what your saying.

How rude of us to leave out thoes little green /grey men ......LOL

[LadyHay]

I'm not saying that every Strange thing that happens is realated to ghosts, there"s aliens to! JK. But I understand what your saying.

No, no I didn't think you were. You were just trying to understand sceptics. Tis cool.

And yeah, the aliens, eh?

[M.M.J.R]

Yeah the little green guys that come from Flying Saucers! They're a huge part of the unexplained too!! They just don't get enough credit, it's sad really.

Edited April 4, 2008 by M.M.J.R

[Electra Rain]

Yeah the little green guys that come from Flying Saucers! They're a huge part of the unexplained too!! They just don't get enough credit, it's sad really.

your right M.M.J.R, there is so much dedicated to angels, demons and ghost that these poor green guys are getting left behind, I'll have to find a little ufo and hang it in my bedroom....LOL;)

[primordial]

- I do not believe in Ghosts/Demons/God and other Supernatural things because nobody on this planet has convinced me that they exist. The greatest mystery is still Death and what happens after, imo. I need something Paranormal in my life to transform my scepticism w/ Theism into belief and Hope. Ghost can't be true because I lack the mental capacity to understand it.

- All these things that happened is..explainable. Occam’s razor and the Anthropic principle is two useful old tools suggesting that there is something about the arrangement of this Universe forbids Supernatural Beings(excluding aliens/Life/Us).., then again, there could be another possible universe w/o this Supernatural-forbidding structure...gtg

- Yea, there is more out there. The Universe at the large n’ small is going to be a mystery forever. When u look up at the stars and the darkness, all that u will see is the Past. Our consciousness, the ghost in the skull, is always lagging behind reality(illusion provided) and we perceive backwards in Time. Ghosts aren’t real because the consciousness of the dead person did their Time and 4e gone from this Domain. I am here because I still have that bit of Mystery.. Anyone, send your demons this way.

The picture is of my son Aaron skateboarding and of my poor walls two days ago. There is a few clues there on why I am an sceptic.

[Electra Rain]

hey primordial, Is that smoke floating above your son's head and all around him, or am I seeing something else?...

[Asphodel]

Occam's Principle of Limited Imagination

I'm cynical by nature, and I mainly doubt the motives of those who make paranormal claims. I'm fairly sure most of them are seeking paranormal rather than rational explanations for their experiences, and that can be a bummer. I try to find rational causes for claims, but I am also very open minded about most paranormal phenomena. I believe in what I see and absolutely cannot explain by any natural means, so I don't believe in much. I think thats fine even though its not scientific. Scientific proof would be wonderful, but its not going to happen.

[bigwedgie]

I most definatley have a skeptic nature, this does not mean that I automaticaly reject the possibility of any supernatural or paranormal event, and I would never disbelieve someones true personal experience it simply means that I subject such claims to systematic investigation in order to arrive at a rational conclusion.

It is in mans nature to decieve, some practice to decieve others and some decieve themselves. At the core of deception usually lies a hunger for either fame, money, influence or popularity.

As a skeptic it does not mean that I don't want there to be a world of supernatural powers but I want it to be proved to be there and therefore I will always look beyond a rattling door to the draught coming from the open window.

[Undeadskeptic]

I am sick to death of these "Skeptics are opressive Bad Guys who don't believe in anything, and us weak minded, gullible people who believe in absolutely everything are the opressed good guys!" threads, they're like an infection. Skeptics are people who are skeptical of somthing. Maybe they're a bigfoot skeptic, or a ghost skeptic. They DO NOT think anything tyhey here related to the paranormal is flase. They just need proof. Believers believe everything they hear like children, and feel insulted when proved otherwise.

Humph.

Sorry for the angry post, but I am SOOOOOOOOO sick to death of these threads.

[RX-7]

I am sick to death of these "Skeptics are opressive Bad Guys who don't believe in anything, and us weak minded, gullible people who believe in absolutely everything are the opressed good guys!" threads, they're like an infection. Skeptics are people who are skeptical of somthing. Maybe they're a bigfoot skeptic, or a ghost skeptic. They DO NOT think anything tyhey here related to the paranormal is flase. They just need proof.

Humph.

well, why is it that skeptics are so quick to jump on the belief bandwagon that something like 'Sleep Paralysis' for example is indeed a sleeping disorder, or that Dejavu is definitely a memory lapse, even when there is no ABSOLUTE proof that it is. Talk about double standards eh?

Believers believe everything they hear like children, and feel insulted when proved otherwise.

another double standard that couldn't be further from the truth. I bet these believers are often as skeptic or maybe even more so than the so called skeptics on here due to their openness to ALL possiblities. They just choose which to be skeptical on and don't brag about it, unlike some

Sorry for the angry post, but I am SOOOOOOOOO sick to death of these threads.

I am too

[Electra Rain]

I beleve that Sleep Paralysis is a sleep disorder, and I'm not a skeptic. Skepetic's serve one purpose, they keep thoes who are open minded somewhat grounded to reality, not everything is paranormal, some things can be logically explained. Skeptics hand us that logical explaination to ponder over and we can either agree, or disagree, I always make it a rule of thumb to explore any explaination a skeptic gives me whether I like what they say or not, than I make my own conclusion.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Electra Rain

[RX-7]

I beleve that Sleep Paralysis is a sleep disorder, and I'm not a skeptic. Skepetic's serve one purpose, they keep thoes who are open minded somewhat grounded to reality, not everything is paranormal, some things can be logically explained. Skeptics hand us that logical explaination to ponder over and we can either agree, or disagree, I always make it a rule of thumb to explore any explaination a skeptic gives me whether I like what they say or not, than I make my own conclusion.

I believe it's a high possibility as well. But until researches can actually find a way to re-induce the feeling in a controlled lab environment, thus proving it is in fact a sleeping disorder, I will always be open to other possibilities. Hence, your argument only serves to fortify my above post.... believers don't always believe in everything as paranormal.

[Electra Rain]

I believe it's a high possibility as well. But until researches can actually find a way to re-induce the feeling in a controlled lab environment, thus proving it is in fact a sleeping disorder, I will always be open to other possibilities. Hence, your argument only serves to fortify my above post.... believers don't always believe in everything as paranormal.

I've done alot of research into sleep disorder, if you look below my post you'll find an article I wrote on dreaming and a website to read it on, my son suffered from sleep walking, and this encoungered me to look deeper into the issue, apprantly it is gentic, so I carry the factor, sleep paraylas is another form of lucid dreaming, but is a safe guard to keep you from acting out your dreams (sleep walking) sleep paraylas is not fatal, and the fear is there to wake you up, but sleep walking can be fatal depending on the actions of the dreamer... Sometimes logic has to be applied, and I perfer to look at both sides of the coin before assuming anything is paranormal.

[RX-7]

I've done alot of research into sleep disorder, if you look below my post you'll find an article I wrote on dreaming and a website to read it on, my son suffered from sleep walking, and this encoungered me to look deeper into the issue, apprantly it is gentic, so I carry the factor, sleep paraylas is another form of lucid dreaming, but is a safe guard to keep you from acting out your dreams (sleep walking) sleep paraylas is not fatal, and the fear is there to wake you up, but sleep walking can be fatal depending on the actions of the dreamer... Sometimes logic has to be applied, and I perfer to look at both sides of the coin before assuming anything is paranormal.

Logic without proof is ineffectual. Does the concept of the universe having a boundary or no boundaries make any sense according to logic? yet on or the other holds true right?

Although I believe SP is more of a sleeping disorder than anything else, I will continue to accept that it isn't unless there is hard proof (now you skeptics have an idea on what believers go through everyday )

[Electra Rain]

Logic without proof is ineffectual. Does the concept of the universe having a boundary or no boundaries make any sense according to logic? yet on or the other holds true right?

Although I believe SP is more of a sleeping disorder than anything else, I will continue to accept that it isn't unless there is hard proof (now you skeptics have an idea on what believers go through everyday )

I feel your pain....

[Procura]

Scientific proof would be wonderful, but its not going to happen.

Weeeell, didn't people also say that about lightning, Space, etc, etc... not too long ago? There's hope.

[gabolai]

I am open minded and I want to belive in paranormal, but it is a sad truth that People Lie!

I am not sceptical over the existance of the paranormal and little green guys. . . I am sceptical over the ability of people to always tell the whole truth and not try to make a story out of nothing for attention.

Not to say that everyone is a liar, just that we have to consider that some people are lying.