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The coming back of Jesus (Issa) PBUH


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Disclaimer. I dont claim to know the facts in this thread

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The animations on the top and bottom visualise the different treatments of time in the Newtonian and the relativistic descriptions. At heart of these differences are the Galilean and Lorentz transformations applicable in the Newtonian and relativistic theories, respectively.

In both figures, the vertical direction indicates time. The horizontal direction indicates distance (only one spatial dimension is taken into account), and the thick dashed curve is the spacetime trajectory ("world line") of the observer. The small dots indicate specific (past and future) events in spacetime.

The slope of the world line (deviation from being vertical) gives the relative velocity to the observer. Note how in both pictures the view of spacetime changes when the observer accelerates.

In the Newtonian description these changes are such that time is absolute: the movements of the observer do not influence whether an event occurs in the 'now' (i.e. whether an event passes the horizontal line through the observer).

However, in the relativistic description the observability of events is absolute: the movements of the observer influences whether an event passes the light cone of the observer. Notice that with the change from a Newtonian to a relativistic description, the concept of absolute time is no longer applicable: events move up-and-down in the figure depending on the acceleration of the observer.

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Is shortest distance between 2 points a straight line?

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or

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Exactly one hundred years ago, in 1895, H. G. Wells classic story The Time Machine was first published in book form. As befits the subject matter, that was the minus tenth anniversary of the first publication, in 1905, of Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity. It was Einstein, as every schoolchild knows, who first described time as "the fourth dimension" -- and every schoolchild is wrong. It was actually Wells who wrote, in The Time Machine, that "there is no difference between Time and any of the three dimensions of Space, except that our consciousness moves along it".

Two Russian mathematicians have suggested that the giant atom-smasher being built at the European centre for nuclear research, Cern, near Geneva, could create the conditions where it might be possible to travel backwards or forwards in time. In essence, Irina Aref'eva and Igor Volovich believe that the Large Hadron Collider at Cern, which is due to be switched on this year for the first time, might create tiny "wormholes" in space which could allow some form of limited time travel.

If true, this would mark the first time in human history that a time machine has been created. If travelling back in time is possible at all, it should in theory be only possible to travel back to the point when the first time machine was created and so this would mean that time travellers from the future would be able to visit us. As an article in this week's New Scientist suggests, this year – 2008 – could become "year zero" for time travel.

Why did I post all the above???

Here is Ayat al Kursi (The verse of the throne) from the Quran Surat al-Baqarah, Ayah 255

There is no god but He,

The Living, the Everlasting,

Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep,

To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth.

Who is there that can intercede with His, except by His leave?

He knows what lies before them and what is after them,

And they comprehend not anything of His Knowledge save as He wills.

His throne comprises the heavens and the earth,

The preserving of them fatigues Him not,

And He is the All-High, All-Glorious.

Here are few verses in Quran on Jesus

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

004.157-158

And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

043.061

God has power over time and space.

Is it possible Jesus has been made to to time travel and will actually appear ahead in time. ??????????????????

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This is really interesting. I've never seen time travel being applied to the second coming.
I have found that the underlying hum; his forgiveness. It means. All are welcome. It is the hum that makes the world turn.
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Suban allah . All praises to Lord Allah, Lord of The Universe.

Yes Its true and He will be back when in the world Islam will have no meaning in near future. He will come to preach Islam all over again........................ here are Verses of Quran , where Almighty God Allah says :-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QURAN

Muslims do believe that Isa (Peace be upon him) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (Peace be upon him), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (Peace be upon him), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (Peace be upon him) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.

What the Holy Qur'an says about Jesus:

They slew him not, nor did they crucify him but it was made dubious to them.

(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157)

Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) himself told of the coming of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). In the Bible, Jesus (Peace be upon him) says,

If you love me, Keep my commandments. And I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever. (Bible, John 14-15/16)

But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me, and he also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. (Bible, John 15-26/27)

I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the spirit of Truth will come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall speak not of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and he shall show it unto you. (Bible, John 16-12/14)

Ulema (learned scholars in Islam) have said that the person who is described by Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) to come after him - in the above verse - does not comply with any other person but Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

In this case, the "comforter" he mentions is none other than Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his laws and way of life (Shariah) and Book (Holy Qur'an) are those that Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) asks his followers to abide by.

The "person" whom Jesus (Peace be upon him) prophecised will come after him, is called Pargaleeta in the Bible . This word was deleted by interpreters and translators and changed at times to "Spirit of Truth" and at other times, to "comforter" and sometimes "Holy Spirit." The original Greek and its meaning is "one whom people praise exceedingly." The sense of the word, then, is applicable to the word Muhammad in Arabic, since Muhammad means "the praised one."

Jesus (Peace be upon him) also says in the Bible,

... and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father. (Bible, John 16:16)

... and the Holy Qur'an says,

And surely they slew him not. But Allah (God) raised him unto Himself.

(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157-158)

As such, Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) was raised to heaven. According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) mentioned, "During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come." In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) mentioned to the Jews that, " Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement)."

II. Hadhrat Isa's (Peace be upon him) Descension The Physical Features of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)

He will resemble the famous Sahabi (Peace be upon him) Hadhrat Urwa bin Masoodi.

He will be of average height and red and white in colour. His hair spread to the shoulders, straight, neat and shining as after a bath. On bending his head, it will seem as if pearls are falling. He will have an armour on his body. He will be wearing two pieces of cloth light yellow in color.

His Descension

He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against Dajjal (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and Imam Mahdi will be the Amir (leader). From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (Peace be upon him). Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa (Peace be upon him) will descend. When descending, Isa (Peace be upon him)'s hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will descend on the eastern side near the Minaret in Damascus (or in Baitul-Muqaddus by Imam Mahdi). At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the Fajr Salaat. The Iqamat of the Salaat would have been said (already recited) and Imam Mahdi will call Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) for Imamat (to lead the prayer), but he (Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the Iqamat of that Salaat has already been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer, and Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will follow him. After the ruku, he will make this statement: "Allah has killed Dajjal and the Muslims have appeared."

The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims

After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.

Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.

III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (Peace be upon him)

1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.

2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.

3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.

4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).

5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).

6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).

7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.

8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.

9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.

10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.

11 Jihad will be stopped.

12 No Khiraaj will be taken.

13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)

14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).

15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).

16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.

17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).

18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him)'s stay in the world.

19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.

20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.

21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.

22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.

23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.

24 Will animals will not harm anyone.

25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.

26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.

27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.

28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.

29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.

30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (Peace be upon him).

His Marriage, Death and Deputies

After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him net to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)

hope it helps

asif

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Suban allah . All praises to Lord Allah, Lord of The Universe.

Yes Its true and He will be back when in the world Islam will have no meaning in near future. He will come to preach Islam all over again........................ here are Verses of Quran , where Almighty God Allah says :-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QURAN

Muslims do believe that Isa (Peace be upon him) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (Peace be upon him), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (Peace be upon him), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (Peace be upon him) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.

What the Holy Qur'an says about Jesus:

They slew him not, nor did they crucify him but it was made dubious to them.

(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157)

Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) himself told of the coming of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). In the Bible, Jesus (Peace be upon him) says,

If you love me, Keep my commandments. And I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever. (Bible, John 14-15/16)

But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me, and he also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. (Bible, John 15-26/27)

I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the spirit of Truth will come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall speak not of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and he shall show it unto you. (Bible, John 16-12/14)

Ulema (learned scholars in Islam) have said that the person who is described by Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) to come after him - in the above verse - does not comply with any other person but Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

In this case, the "comforter" he mentions is none other than Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his laws and way of life (Shariah) and Book (Holy Qur'an) are those that Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) asks his followers to abide by.

The "person" whom Jesus (Peace be upon him) prophecised will come after him, is called Pargaleeta in the Bible . This word was deleted by interpreters and translators and changed at times to "Spirit of Truth" and at other times, to "comforter" and sometimes "Holy Spirit." The original Greek and its meaning is "one whom people praise exceedingly." The sense of the word, then, is applicable to the word Muhammad in Arabic, since Muhammad means "the praised one."

Jesus (Peace be upon him) also says in the Bible,

... and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father. (Bible, John 16:16)

... and the Holy Qur'an says,

And surely they slew him not. But Allah (God) raised him unto Himself.

(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157-158)

As such, Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) was raised to heaven. According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) mentioned, "During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come." In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) mentioned to the Jews that, " Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement)."

II. Hadhrat Isa's (Peace be upon him) Descension The Physical Features of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)

He will resemble the famous Sahabi (Peace be upon him) Hadhrat Urwa bin Masoodi.

He will be of average height and red and white in colour. His hair spread to the shoulders, straight, neat and shining as after a bath. On bending his head, it will seem as if pearls are falling. He will have an armour on his body. He will be wearing two pieces of cloth light yellow in color.

His Descension

He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against Dajjal (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and Imam Mahdi will be the Amir (leader). From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (Peace be upon him). Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa (Peace be upon him) will descend. When descending, Isa (Peace be upon him)'s hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will descend on the eastern side near the Minaret in Damascus (or in Baitul-Muqaddus by Imam Mahdi). At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the Fajr Salaat. The Iqamat of the Salaat would have been said (already recited) and Imam Mahdi will call Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) for Imamat (to lead the prayer), but he (Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the Iqamat of that Salaat has already been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer, and Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will follow him. After the ruku, he will make this statement: "Allah has killed Dajjal and the Muslims have appeared."

The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims

After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.

Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.

III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (Peace be upon him)

1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.

2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.

3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.

4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).

5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).

6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).

7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.

8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.

9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.

10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.

11 Jihad will be stopped.

12 No Khiraaj will be taken.

13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)

14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).

15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).

16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.

17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).

18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him)'s stay in the world.

19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.

20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.

21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.

22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.

23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.

24 Will animals will not harm anyone.

25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.

26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.

27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.

28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.

29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.

30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (Peace be upon him).

His Marriage, Death and Deputies

After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him net to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)

hope it helps

asif

I would like to draw a spiritual line: not of division, but of connection. Revelation Chapter 19:1-4 they shall be singing Alleluia unto God. Verse 5: voice that comes out of the throne saying, praise our God. Verse 6: and I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude. And as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings saying Alleluia: our sovereign God reigns.(Symbolic of Revelation Chapter 10, versus 1-3: the promised Angel with 1 foot on the sea, and his left foot on the earth: and cried with a loud for voice as when a lion roars. When he had cried seven thunders uttered their voices) Chapter 19 verse 7, let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to him for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready. Verse 9: Blessed are they which are called in to the marriage supper of the Lamb. Verse 10: and I fell at his feet to worship him and he said to me see that you do it not. I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Chapter 11, and I saw heaven open and behold a white horse and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and in righteousness. He does Judge and make war. Verse17: And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven gather into the supper of the great God.

Chapter 6: 1-2 : and I saw the Lamb opened one of the seals and I heard as it were the sound of thunder, one of the four beasts saying come and see. And I saw and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him at a bow; and the Crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering and to conquer

Genesis 21 Verses:18-20, rise and lift up Ishmael and hold him in thine hand, for I will make him a great nation and God opened her eyes and she saw well of water and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave to Ishmael to drink. And God was with Ishmael, and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness and became an archer. Chapter 17 Verses: 18-20: and Abraham said unto God. Oh that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son; and you shall call his name Isaac(he who laughs) and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant. And with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael. I have heard thee: behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; 12 princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. Chapter 22 Verses 1-2: and it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said behold, here I am. And he said, take thy son, thine only son(isaac: he who laughs), whom thou love and get you into the land of Moriah: and offer him there a burnt offering upon one of the mountains, which I will tell thee of.

Revelation Chapter 17 Verses 16-18: and the 10 horns which thou saw upon the beast these shall hate the whore and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eat her flesh and burner with fire. For God has put in their hearts to fulfill his will and to agree and give their kingdom unto the beast until the words of God shall be fulfilled and the woman which you saw is that great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth. Chapter 13 Verse: 10-13, he that leads into captivity shall go into captivity. He that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and he spake as a dragon. And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast whose deadly wound was healed.

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Ahmemm ..... I was clearing my throat not endorsing the above diatribe.

Trying to get back to the point of the thread you ask "could the invention of a time machine bring back Jesus" well, Einstein's laws of physics suggest that time travel is only possible into the past and only as far back as the point when the first time machine was invented.

The new particle accelerator housed at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) and which is due to recreate conditions found in the first billionth of a second after the "Big Bang'" created everything is unliley to have the capacity to create a wormhole the energy mass must me massive in order to distort time itself.

And if Einstein was correct even if it works time travel is only possible in one direction .....backwards and only backwards to the point where the first wormhole is created and that "may" be when they turn on this or some other future particle accellerator.

So current thinking is ......no, people who are dead prior to the invention of the machine cannot be transported from their zone to the future but people can trave from their zone into the past but only as far as the day the machine is invented.

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Muslims do believe that Isa (Peace be upon him) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (Peace be upon him), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead

If so, then why, when writing in the English language, do you use an honorific which, in the English language, is reserved for the dead?

It would seem to me to be in your own interest, to say nothing of the interest of Christians that a central tenet of their faith be respectfully discussed, to testify accurately about your faith.

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If so, then why, when writing in the English language, do you use an honorific which, in the English language, is reserved for the dead?

It would seem to me to be in your own interest, to say nothing of the interest of Christians that a central tenet of their faith be respectfully discussed, to testify accurately about your faith.

Every beginning must have an end Lord of the rings

Every living thing must taste death. Such is Gods law.

Jesus was present during a period in the past.

Jesus is not around us during the present.

However Jesus will be there for a period of time during the future.

What honorific do you suggest should be used instead?

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Suban allah . All praises to Lord Allah, Lord of The Universe.

Yes Its true and He will be back when in the world Islam will have no meaning in near future. He will come to preach Islam all over again........................ here are Verses of Quran , where Almighty God Allah says :-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe you missed it, but he teached Christianity...Not Islam. But, whatsoever you call it..... LOVE and Understanding.

At least you believe he will return as do I.... Lets agree on that.

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What honorific do you suggest should be used instead?

There are discussions about this in another thread. It may be a matter of "adding to," rather than "instead." I am also sensitive to the possibility that the difficulty might not arise in other languages besides English.

If the matter were peripheral, or something that Christians themselves are divided on (whether or not Adam warrants the honorific pbuh, for instance), then perhaps it would be best set aside. But this is Nicene Creed material, and so definitional of what Christianity is for most versions of the faith.

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Humanity must remember these before they meet the happenings

III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (Peace be upon him)

1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.

2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.

3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.

4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).

5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).

6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).

7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.

8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.

9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.

10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.

11 Jihad will be stopped.

12 No Khiraaj will be taken.

13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)

14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).

15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).

16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.

17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).

18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him)'s stay in the world.

19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.

20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.

21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.

22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.

23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.

24 Will animals will not harm anyone.

25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.

26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.

27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.

28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.

29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.

30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (Peace be upon him).

His Marriage, Death and Deputies

After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him net to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)

May God mercy on us

Thanks

AF

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If so, then why, when writing in the English language, do you use an honorific which, in the English language, is reserved for the dead?

It would seem to me to be in your own interest, to say nothing of the interest of Christians that a central tenet of their faith be respectfully discussed, to testify accurately about your faith.

Regardless of what language it is, its also a part of islamic faith, to wish peace and blessing of allah upon all his messengers, including Issa,(jesus)

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Regardless of what language it is, its also a part of islamic faith, to wish peace and blessing of allah upon all his messengers, including Issa,(jesus)

It is an excellent thing to respect people of acheivement, living or dead. That is not the issue.

When you write in English, the form of your respectful remark implies that the honoree is dead. It is central to many of your readers' belief that he is not dead.

Unless you intend to insult your readers, then you will fix that. I have, as noted, suggested no change in the form itself, merely to add a deferential note to those who, seeing that you write to them in English, will take you to mean what the words you wrote in English mean.

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It is an excellent thing to respect people of acheivement, living or dead. That is not the issue.

When you write in English, the form of your respectful remark implies that the honoree is dead. It is central to many of your readers' belief that he is not dead.

Unless you intend to insult your readers, then you will fix that. I have, as noted, suggested no change in the form itself, merely to add a deferential note to those who, seeing that you write to them in English, will take you to mean what the words you wrote in English mean.

No we dont need to fix anything, thats like saying, christians should not say jesus is Son of god, because thats the ulitmate blasphemy in islam and they should be sensitive to the readers. Also because there is no capitals in hebrew, tehy should write it as son of god, the same way implied for all other prophets in the bible.

We say our respects, not because they are dead, but because they are not present, so one wishes the best on them, and we do the same for the dead. its about understanding and tolerance, we are rasing the status of jesus by sincerly wishing for god blessing on him, so we can have it too.

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No we dont need to fix anything

That of course, is your choice. You don't "need" to do anything.

In researching the issue, however, I have found that many adherents of Islam pay their respects to Jesus by the abbreviation AS based on the transliteration, rather than a translation, of the Arabic phrase Aleyhi salaam.

Since this could not possibly confused for any English phrase, it would not be misunderstood as a comment on your theological difference of opinion with another faith.

I have never said that you are unfree to express your theological opinions with whatever zeal you wish. All that I have suggested is that the decorum with which you do so is a bona fide consideration when evaluating a complaint that Islamic views have been shown disrespect. Such complaints have arisen, and I can easily imagine that they will again.

Since you have the choice, if you decline to be sensitive to others' faith, then you can hardly complain if others are insensitive to yours in their turn.

Edited by eight bits
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In researching the issue, however, I have found that many adherents of Islam pay their respects to Jesus by the abbreviation AS based on the transliteration, rather than a translation, of the Arabic phrase Aleyhi salaam.

That is just blatant laziness. On an Islamic forum I am apart of it is against the rules to reduce compulsory phrases to abbreviations. Like PBUH, SAWS, AS, RA, AA, WAS, AAWrWb, SWT..etc.

I honestly do not see the problem here. Actually, I've never heard the phrase peace be upon him referring to the dead in Arabic or English. Rather, I have heard "May Allah have Mercy on him." or "God rest his soul."

Should we just stick with the Arabic? Then again, that will offend people because we're speaking a language they don't understand on a primarily English speaking website. It seems to be a no win situation either way we go.

It really seems like a non-issue to me. Our intent is not malice, but sticking by our mandatory religious traditions. If someone misunderstands, all it takes is a simple explanation which is not hard to do.

Edited by EmpressStarXVII
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If so, then why, when writing in the English language, do you use an honorific which, in the English language, is reserved for the dead?

It would seem to me to be in your own interest, to say nothing of the interest of Christians that a central tenet of their faith be respectfully discussed, to testify accurately about your faith.

Maybe he didn't know that ? Or maybe he shouldn't be writing in English .. is that what you mean ? There are so many languages out there , but you already know that eight bits ? I must say , i am quite puzzled by your post..

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There are several different accounts of the life death an resurrection of Christ, from people who saw it first hand. Why should we believe a "prophet" who was born several hundred years later, who tried to twist the story? Especialy in light of his resume?

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Suban allah . All praises to Lord Allah, Lord of The Universe.

Yes Its true and He will be back when in the world Islam will have no meaning in near future. He will come to preach Islam all over again........................ here are Verses of Quran , where Almighty God Allah says :-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QURAN

Muslims do believe that Isa (Peace be upon him) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (Peace be upon him), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (Peace be upon him), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (Peace be upon him) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.

What the Holy Qur'an says about Jesus:

They slew him not, nor did they crucify him but it was made dubious to them.

(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157)

Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) himself told of the coming of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). In the Bible, Jesus (Peace be upon him) says,

If you love me, Keep my commandments. And I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever. (Bible, John 14-15/16)

But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me, and he also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. (Bible, John 15-26/27)

I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the spirit of Truth will come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall speak not of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and he shall show it unto you. (Bible, John 16-12/14)

Ulema (learned scholars in Islam) have said that the person who is described by Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) to come after him - in the above verse - does not comply with any other person but Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

In this case, the "comforter" he mentions is none other than Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his laws and way of life (Shariah) and Book (Holy Qur'an) are those that Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) asks his followers to abide by.

The "person" whom Jesus (Peace be upon him) prophecised will come after him, is called Pargaleeta in the Bible . This word was deleted by interpreters and translators and changed at times to "Spirit of Truth" and at other times, to "comforter" and sometimes "Holy Spirit." The original Greek and its meaning is "one whom people praise exceedingly." The sense of the word, then, is applicable to the word Muhammad in Arabic, since Muhammad means "the praised one."

Jesus (Peace be upon him) also says in the Bible,

... and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father. (Bible, John 16:16)

... and the Holy Qur'an says,

And surely they slew him not. But Allah (God) raised him unto Himself.

(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157-158)

As such, Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) was raised to heaven. According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) mentioned, "During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come." In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) mentioned to the Jews that, " Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement)."

II. Hadhrat Isa's (Peace be upon him) Descension The Physical Features of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)

He will resemble the famous Sahabi (Peace be upon him) Hadhrat Urwa bin Masoodi.

He will be of average height and red and white in colour. His hair spread to the shoulders, straight, neat and shining as after a bath. On bending his head, it will seem as if pearls are falling. He will have an armour on his body. He will be wearing two pieces of cloth light yellow in color.

His Descension

He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against Dajjal (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and Imam Mahdi will be the Amir (leader). From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (Peace be upon him). Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa (Peace be upon him) will descend. When descending, Isa (Peace be upon him)'s hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will descend on the eastern side near the Minaret in Damascus (or in Baitul-Muqaddus by Imam Mahdi). At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the Fajr Salaat. The Iqamat of the Salaat would have been said (already recited) and Imam Mahdi will call Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) for Imamat (to lead the prayer), but he (Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the Iqamat of that Salaat has already been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer, and Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will follow him. After the ruku, he will make this statement: "Allah has killed Dajjal and the Muslims have appeared."

The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims

After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.

Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Peace be upon him) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.

III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (Peace be upon him)

1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.

2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.

3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.

4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).

5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).

6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).

7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.

8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.

9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.

10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.

11 Jihad will be stopped.

12 No Khiraaj will be taken.

13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)

14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).

15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).

16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.

17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).

18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him)'s stay in the world.

19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.

20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.

21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.

22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.

23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.

24 Will animals will not harm anyone.

25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.

26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.

27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.

28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.

29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.

30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (Peace be upon him).

His Marriage, Death and Deputies

After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (Peace be upon him) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him net to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)

hope it helps

asif

If I had not already shaved my head I would of pulled it all out already................... :wacko:

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Hey, Sama. Good to see you again. This conversation is divided over several threads, so perhaps that accounts for its lack of transparency.

My position is not that Moslems must "change their ways," but simply to point out that if they refuse to take make a minimal concession to Christian sensibilities, then they ought to refrain from complaining when others speak their mind directly about elements of the Islamic religion.

Either way is fine with me: say something which, in English, does not imply that Jesus is dead (which contradicts the Nicene Creed, as close to a definition of Christian faith as exists), or else accept without complaint that insensitive remarks will sometimes be made in debate.

And by "without complaint" I do not mean letting the content of remarks pass unchallenged, but to refrain from alleging that the poster harbors some malice towards Islam.

There is precedent for my rising to speak. There were complaints hereabouts, for example, that a poster's nickname formerly incorporated the word "zombie" along with the name of Jesus. That is an imperfect parallel since a zombie is alive, but, the issue is similar. An avowed atheist could see the issue, and responded appropriately. It is not that obscure.

I have also skipped over other objections which Christians have made to the Islamic practice, which turn on less central doctrinal concerns, or on matters about which Christians themselves disagree. Discussions of these are easily found on the web.

Empress, the English language allows the bodily incoporation of short foreign phrases whose literal translation would be misleading or offensive. There is no issue of posting in a foreign language. I also agree with you that there is a controversy among Moslems about abbreviating the honorifics, however, some people here already use PBUH, for example in the title of this very thread, so no new difficulty attaches.

Many Moslems are insistent that the Qur'an itself must be transmitted in Seventh Century CE Arabic, lest something be lost in translation. Something is being lost in translating this phrase, assuming of course that everyone's intentions are as they say they are, which I do.

Edited by eight bits
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Wait...is this about Jesus or science?

This is a long one...I know...but stick with me here...I'm going to open up a FEW cans of worms and I only ask that you receive it well and pick out the tastiest worms! ;)

Either way...Jesus would have died a long time ago. He was the descendant to the throne of King David and rightfully would have been king. He was a massive threat to the Romans and given divinity by the court of Constantine. I won't go in to details but basically, he was an awesome dood. (pm me if you want to learn more about the history of Christianity and modern religion)

As for time travel, the Philadelphia Experiment maaaaay have been the first unfortunate episode of time-travel back in 1943 and the stories are gruesome!! WouldTHAT perhaps be ground-zero for time travel? Here's a bigger issue: Einstein's theories are sh**-full of holes. Why do the myriad galaxies (over 500 billion known) accelerate away from each other in the vacuum of space? Their rate should remain constant. How does our own galaxy even hold together? There's not actually enough mass to keep it in gravitational orbit with itself. We should go spiraling out into the vastness of space unless DARK MATTER exists (nearly works out mathematically) or gravity is relative and changing (even stranger) which would negate Newton's laws!!

Okay..enough about physics...here's my philosophy:

Time travel should be possible from the very beginning to the very end. Why? Because all that has happened and ever will happen exists simultaneously and harmoniously. Every possibility exists in the multi-verse.

Transporting through time is easy because the very effects of your time-travel are the end result of a singular multi-verse. I'll sight the "grandfather theory wherein you travel back in time and kill your grandfather. This would create a paradox and you would (or should) cease to exist. However, in THAT PARTICULAR MULTI-VERSE, YOU DID COME FROM A DIFFERENT MULTI-VERSE AND KILL YOUR GRANDFATHER...so you'll still live. (wrap your head around THAT one! lol)

Now let's pretend there's only ONE universe (which has been disproved already. Scientifically we can explain at least 11 universes existing harmoniously) and ONE time-line...who's to say we're ALONE out there? Who's to say "others" haven't been time-traveling for thousands or even MILLIONS of years? So wouldn't we be able to transport to a specific time in the continuum if that were the case? Considering Jesus was alive only a little over 2000 years ago, a blink-of-the-eye by ANY standard, wouldn't it be fairly simple for him to travel back to that era if he were actually a "time-traveler"?

Now let's take that one step further:

Consider the belief that Jesus was the "son of GOD"...

We (2000 years ago) would have considered ANY extraterrestrial being of higher intelligence/capability "god" or "angelic". What if Jesus was a "hybrid"? What if Jesus was put here by ET's to enlighten the human species (maybe we are even a product of their own genetic manipulation), then "ascended" back to the freakin' mother ship only to time-travel BACK here a few thousand years later?

I don't believe Jesus is actually coming back. I believe a new Messiah is already here and working feverishly.

I believe this Messiah is NOT here by time-travel, but by intelligent design, implanted with necessary technologies and genetic capabilities that allow him the ability to inspire and enlighten all those who wish to follow him into the future much like Jesus was.

Well...I'm going to finish this delicious wine and wait for the flood of angry and confused responses.

I adore all religion and all forms of spirituality. I think they're beautiful and important and would never wish to take anything from them nor the people who subscribe to them.

My reality is that none of them are wrong, none are correct. We are all exactly the same and when we die we all go to the exact same place..the ethereal. We share our experiences with the collective consciousness that is God or Allah or whatever you wish to call it.

Love all, worship ALL, because you ARE all!

Live in balance~

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There are several different accounts of the life death an resurrection of Christ, from people who saw it first hand. Why should we believe a "prophet" who was born several hundred years later, who tried to twist the story? Especialy in light of his resume?

There are several ambigious accounts of christs crucifixtion and ressurection, from people who saw it first hand i dont think so, all his companions fled when he needed them most. The rason you should believe, the words of a prophet who came later, is because its the same one who was prophecised by jesus in your bible and he came with a miracle of miracles, the quran, the final testament. The bible you read today, is full of fabrications and errors, what you follow is conjecture and what is the cornerstone who christian belief is the death and ressurection of christ, which is built on flimsy evidence and mainly conjecture.

If I had not already shaved my head I would of pulled it all out already................... :wacko:

That was constructive.

Hey, Sama. Good to see you again. This conversation is divided over several threads, so perhaps that accounts for its lack of transparency.

My position is not that Moslems must "change their ways," but simply to point out that if they refuse to take make a minimal concession to Christian sensibilities, then they ought to refrain from complaining when others speak their mind directly about elements of the Islamic religion.

Either way is fine with me: say something which, in English, does not imply that Jesus is dead (which contradicts the Nicene Creed, as close to a definition of Christian faith as exists), or else accept without complaint that insensitive remarks will sometimes be made in debate.

And by "without complaint" I do not mean letting the content of remarks pass unchallenged, but to refrain from alleging that the poster harbors some malice towards Islam.

There is precedent for my rising to speak. There were complaints hereabouts, for example, that a poster's nickname formerly incorporated the word "zombie" along with the name of Jesus. That is an imperfect parallel since a zombie is alive, but, the issue is similar. An avowed atheist could see the issue, and responded appropriately. It is not that obscure.

I have also skipped over other objections which Christians have made to the Islamic practice, which turn on less central doctrinal concerns, or on matters about which Christians themselves disagree. Discussions of these are easily found on the web.

Empress, the English language allows the bodily incoporation of short foreign phrases whose literal translation would be misleading or offensive. There is no issue of posting in a foreign language. I also agree with you that there is a controversy among Moslems about abbreviating the honorifics, however, some people here already use PBUH, for example in the title of this very thread, so no new difficulty attaches.

Many Moslems are insistent that the Qur'an itself must be transmitted in Seventh Century CE Arabic, lest something be lost in translation. Something is being lost in translating this phrase, assuming of course that everyone's intentions are as they say they are, which I do.

Look i think your making a big issue out of nothing, infact your the only one, and no other christian has brought it up, we pay our respects to jesus, what doi the christians do, nothing, they just utter his name.

You can AS or PBUH, abbreviated so those who want to say it, say it, those who dont, ignore it. Look at you for example, using the word moslem, if you knew what an insult it was to muslims would you continue using it, when it should be muslim. Moslem, is the offensive term coined by the jews, to insult muslims, and adopted largely in america, when refering to muslims.

Like i said, in reference to jesus, we wish peace on him, we dont say god rest his soul, or rest in peace. We wish, what he deserves upon him, its respect regardless of the faith.

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Look i think your making a big issue out of nothing, infact your the only one, and no other christian has brought it up

That's too bad you feel that way. I am a member here, and I call them as I see them. Others do likewise. There is enough to rebut in your posts that some division of labor is to be expected.

Look at you for example, using the word moslem, if you knew what an insult it was to muslims would you continue using it, when it should be muslim. Moslem, is the offensive term coined by the jews, to insult muslims, and adopted largely in america, when refering to muslims.

Muslim, alas, in American English connotes a particular sect of Islamic faith. If the other M word offends you, then (1) you have my sincere apology for writing it, and (2) my assurance that I shall never use it again in correspondence with you.

There, see how simple it is to respect another's religion?

Substituting two vowels with their near neighbors, in a well attested English word with no sacriligeous effect, was enough to elicit a complaint from you. You do complain that you are discriminated against, and you do refuse to make the least accommodation to the sensitivities of others.

BTW, speaking of respect for another's religion, and of course we all know that any suggestion that adherents of Islam might have any antipathy towards Jews is stereotyping, but what's your evidence that a common American word was coined by Jews, and that their intention in doing so was to insult you?

Edited by eight bits
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There are several ambigious accounts of christs crucifixtion and ressurection, from people who saw it first hand i dont think so, all his companions fled when he needed them most. The rason you should believe, the words of a prophet who came later, is because its the same one who was prophecised by jesus in your bible and he came with a miracle of miracles, the quran, the final testament. The bible you read today, is full of fabrications and errors, what you follow is conjecture and what is the cornerstone who christian belief is the death and ressurection of christ, which is built on flimsy evidence and mainly conjecture.

Christ never made a prophecy regarding Muhammad. If you read it in full context you will clearly see he was speaking of the Holy Spirit. Why would you believe it, even if its said in the bible, you clearly think its tainted. He did Prophecied that his words would one day reach the entire world, and they have, through the bible. Why would God who we both agree sent Jesus, send him only to let billions go astray through him? Why should we take the words of a man who killed thousands of Christians and Jews, married a 6 year old girl, Married a divorced women, stole lands, and stole peoples possetions. I dont mean this as disrespect, but these are the facts on the ground.

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Since you have the choice, if you decline to be sensitive to others' faith, then you can hardly complain if others are insensitive to yours in their turn.

see i dont know what your faith is

the reason for starting this thread was to explore

possibility that second coming of Jesus could be time travel

see he will be the same age when he somes back wont he???

ill appreciate your take/belief/faith/opinion on this particular point

if you have other issues that need discussion maybe you can start your own thread ;)

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