Manned mission to mars?

[seax]

I think we have the technology to pull this off already. Remember when we lost the U-2 in Japan or China...

Hello reverb2000,

the U2 was shot down over Russia. But, yes our government have projects we know nothing about. That is why I think we need to wait to go to Mars when the technology can take us there faster and safer. Perhaps this is why we have not been back to the moon--officially.

best regards,

seax

[Sardukar]

the U2 was shot down over Russia. But, yes our government have projects we know nothing about. That is why I think we need to wait to go to Mars when the technology can take us there faster and safer. Perhaps this is why we have not been back to the moon--officially.

Why does it have to be faster and safer? Did any of the great explorers of the past sit there and think to themselves..."nahhh i think i'll wait to cross that ocean or that land until its safer and i can do it faster". NO, they did it as soon as they could to face and challenge that arises and achieve something totally awesome. We have had the technology to send humans to mars for the past two decades now but the funding and international cooperation has not existed to a point where we could achieve the mission goal.

At the current rate NASA is operating at (barring any new substantial technology upgrades) an ESA, RUSSIA, CHINA joint mission will make it to mars well before the americans.

[seax]

Why does it have to be faster and safer? Did any of the great explorers of the past sit there and think to themselves..."nahhh i think i'll wait to cross that ocean or that land until its safer and i can do it faster". NO, they did it as soon as they could to face and challenge that arises and achieve something totally awesome. We have had the technology to send humans to mars for the past two decades now but the funding and international cooperation has not existed to a point where we could achieve the mission goal.

At the current rate NASA is operating at (barring any new substantial technology upgrades) an ESA, RUSSIA, CHINA joint mission will make it to mars well before the americans.

I understand your enthusiasm, but you are comparing apples with oranges.

Let's look at Columbus. He had 3 ships, if one sank that left 2, if 2 sank that left 1. They didn't have to carry oxygen. If they ran out of food, they could find an island and get supplies if nothing but fish. If all the ships sank there is the possiblity of drifting to an island.

Lets look at space, you have 5 or 6 people in a tiny capsule. You must carry your oxygen. If somebody gets sick and dies they have to be disposed of. If something happens to the ship, you are

SOL because, there ain't gonna be another one and no rescue mission. When you get to Mars, something happens there you are on your own--and they ain't no berries or KFC there. People can't get along in an office environment for a week, how about closed quarters for Months?

Forgetting about the safety of humans look at the cost in money if it fails, because of time and safety.

Billions of dollars.

There are better ways to go there in due time. I say let's do it right. I would like to see what is there too.

best regards,

seax

[MID]

Hello MID,

You are thinking inside the box, you have to think outside the box. All these things you just mentioned are problems, but problems to current propulsion systems. New technology MID---nothing stays the same

makes complete sense.

best regards,

seax

No, no, no. Thinking outside the box is precisely how we accomplished a lunar mission, and how we will accomplish a Mars mission. Of course new technology is at the forefront of what we're doing, just as it was in the past.

However, you are indeed delving into realms of speculation here that are irrelevant to the actual situation at hand pertaining to Mars.

This country spends a lot of black money for projects, and they are not just to make current systems better, they are to create new ones. There is no doubt in my mind, we see these propulsion systems flying all the time, and some people call them UFO's. They are kept quite because a lot of money and work went into them. You don't want someone else to get it for free, and you don't want your opponents to know what you have.

I am going to give you a link, read it, it is an example of a technology I feel is a working system. A retiree from Groom Lake made the comment just a few years ago, the craft could go to the moon and back before lunch, if they left at 6:00 am and back at noon thats about 80 X10 3rd mph or 1333 mps

with a reduction in mass of 89%, some of the hardships you talked about would be nill.

http://www.mufonla.com/tr3b.htm

Black projects...of course. Black projects are black for a reason, to the extent that they actually exist. A Mars mission will not be a black project. It'll be completely white.

You link me to MUFON. That's not something in the realm that I wish to entertain. An interesting description of a major technological acchievement which is based upon speculative physics rergarding a craft which has no substantial evidence of it's existence, and of course there are those references to Edgar Fouche, who believes alot, but who has no credentials which support his beliefs, nor any proof that he ever worked at "Area 51".

NASA and the Air Force have of course, and still do engage in far reaching research, some in the realm of speculative physics. Dr. Robert Forward, who gets mention in the link you provided, was one of those visionaries who was involved in that type of research, and who in fact patented many of the pretty far out things we have today...however, associating him with MUFON and the TR-3B...which is nothing more than a fictional craft (by any reasonable definition), is a little over the top.

You may feel that the TR-3B employs a working system, and you may think we see such things flying all the time, and you're entitled to that, but it's speculative stuff which has no substantiation pertaining to its actual existence at this time.

Further, even IF it does exist, we're talking decades of reseach and development in order to produce a viable craft, which would undoubtedly be utilized for defensive and reconnaisance purposes prior to being fabricated for use in manned exploratory adventures. Such a thing would remain secret for the entire time.

Again...IF it exists, and of course, other than belief, there's nothing to substantiate that.

Even so, why wait?

[MID]

Hello reverb2000,

the U2 was shot down over Russia. But, yes our government have projects we know nothing about. That is why I think we need to wait to go to Mars when the technology can take us there faster and safer. Perhaps this is why we have not been back to the moon--officially.

best regards,

seax

We have not been back to the Moon for reasons which have been clearly delineated ad nauseam many times in the past right here on UM. It had nothing to do with black projects, or advanced tecnologies we were waiting on. It had to do with short-sighted leadership and a relatively typical American ability to become jaded to the extraordinary--as well as a profound propensity to engage in the ludicrous idea that there are more pressing problems we should be dealing with on the Earth rather than spending the money on space exploration...money which was, and still is a pittance compared with what the government spends on entitlements, let alone all the other government programs and institutions in existence.

For that matter, the space exploration budget has always been a pittance compared to what Americans spend on cosmetics, cigarrettes and beer in any given year. Our priorities are screwed...and in large part always have been.

Whatever: you may note that we will be finally, going back to the Moon, within the next dozen years or so--provided of course that we don't elect another short sighted government into office.

[seax]

I understand your enthusiasm, but you are comparing apples with oranges.

Let's look at Columbus. He had 3 ships, if one sank that left 2, if 2 sank that left 1. They didn't have to carry oxygen. If they ran out of food, they could find an island and get supplies if nothing but fish. If all the ships sank there is the possiblity of drifting to an island.

Lets look at space, you have 5 or 6 people in a tiny capsule. You must carry your oxygen. If somebody gets sick and dies they have to be disposed of. If something happens to the ship, you are

SOL because, there ain't gonna be another one and no rescue mission. When you get to Mars, something happens there you are on your own--and they ain't no berries or KFC there. People can't get along in an office environment for a week, how about closed quarters for Months?

Forgetting about the safety of humans look at the cost in money if it fails, because of time and safety.

Billions of dollars.

There are better ways to go there in due time. I say let's do it right. I would like to see what is there too.

best regards,

seax

Here are several reasons why.

I will not argue the point the TR3B may not be a working craft, but I also wouldn't argue it or some other propulsion system is not in a hangar somewhere getting the bugs out of it. A lot of people, report seeing a lot of things that are out of the norm. If they are real and they are not ET, then they are something that belongs to us. I just find it hard to believe everyone is still refining a rocket engine, when physics gives us so many other choices. Remember, a few years ago, stealth was impossible to some people.

best regards,

seax

[MID]

At the current rate NASA is operating at (barring any new substantial technology upgrades) an ESA, RUSSIA, CHINA joint mission will make it to mars well before the americans.

What do you mean, "at the current rate that NASA is operating?"

NASA is, as it was in the past, the crown jewel of space effort and effectiveness.

Their performance in the past 5 years has been spectacular.

Do you actually think that China will be partnering with anyone, and has the capability to do such a thing, at all? They've just orbited their first man in space, and they are not inclined to partner, at this point with anyone. No one has any manned experience outside of LEO save Americans. The ESA is highly capable, as is Russia, and Japan, and Canada for that matter.

I envision a cooperative effort on a Mars mission, but with China?

Don't look for that. Without America, I don't think you'll be seeing any Mars missions happen. No one has the booster capability, or the experience required to even attempt it.

One must learn to crawl before one can walk. Only America has crawled to date.

[seax]

Hey MID,

I agree with you on priorities of money, a lot is wasted in bottomless pit social programs and pet projects that could be spend much wiser on programs like we are talking about.

But, even so, a lot of scientist realize the danger and prospects of failure on such a mission. Just look at the unmanned missions that have failed. The explorer spirit is still alive and well, but I say lets use some common sense, and take a "calculated" risk. The smart thing to do would be to have a joint mission the europeans and russians and let them pay their share of the cost and risk. I have reservations about the chinese.

Mars is not going anywhere, lets develope "faster and safer" so we can succeed, believe me, it can be done. That explorer spirt you are talking about can conquer all these problems.

best regards,

seax

[MID]

Hey MID,

I agree with you on priorities of money, a lot is wasted in bottomless pit social programs and pet projects that could be spend much wiser on programs like we are talking about.

But, even so, a lot of scientist realize the danger and prospects of failure on such a mission. Just look at the unmanned missions that have failed. The explorer spirit is still alive and well, but I say lets use some common sense, and take a "calculated" risk. The smart thing to do would be to have a joint mission the europeans and russians and let them pay their share of the cost and risk. I have reservations about the chinese.

You know seax, I agree with you.

Believe me, the complexities of a Mars manned mission are exceedingly huge.. And, while any space mission involves risk, it is managed risk, and it will be in the future when we go to Mars. There are many unknowns to investigate and plan for, technologies to be developed, human systems, etc...this is not Apollo. It is something completely different.

I have always been of the opinion (well, in the past copuple decades anyway) that co-operation between our partners as they exist right now (Russia, Japan, Europe, and Canada) is the best way to go. Given what's been done on the ISS in the past couple of years is clearly illustrative of the fact that we are not greater individually than we are as a whole.

Personally, I think that the U.S. lunar effort in the next couple of decades, combined with continued ISS research and participation, will yield what we need to know in order to plan, and execute a Mars mission, jointly, in the decades to follow.

What's going to be done on orbit on the ISS in the years to follow will be undoubtedly astounding. Add that to the U.S.'s lunar landings and development there, and the formula is present for Mars.

I think that joint effort will serve not only the success of the endeavor, but will be beneficial to the planet as a whole.

best regards,

seax

Ditto!

[seax]

Hey MID.

Makes me feel good when great minds agree with me!

appreciate your post.

keep your fingers crossed, good things will happen in due time.

best regards,

seax

[MID]

Hey MID.

Makes me feel good when great minds agree with me!

appreciate your post.

keep your fingers crossed, good things will happen in due time.

best regards,

seax

You are far too kind!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[seax]

Hey,

we're on the same page! This is what it's about, livin and learnin.

take care

seax

[DONTEATUS]

If we could get just half of the earths population to agree on space eveloution and exploration,we would have no problems leaveing Earth and on to the stars.Its we have not yet learned to be at peace with one another yet.But its going to happen! Sooner would be better.Thats like Mid said we all need to get out there and vote for a strong government with far reaching goals,and dreams. Why we dont just start printing a whole new batch of money and Put NASA back in the Black!

[Incorrigible1]

If we could get just half of the earths population to agree on space eveloution and exploration,we would have no problems leaveing Earth and on to the stars.

Maybe if we could just get half the earth's population to pony up the necessary funds. As an American tax-payer who believes whole-heartedly in the space program, I guess I don't understand why space exploration depends upon the other half of the world's population.

[MID]

Maybe if we could just get half the earth's population to pony up the necessary funds. As an American tax-payer who believes whole-heartedly in the space program, I guess I don't understand why space exploration depends upon the other half of the world's population.

To be perfectly honest, Incorrigible, I don't think half the world's population actually knows about space exploration or would be inclined to care. I also don't think we need half the world in order to operate in space; just some realism among those countries who engage in the activity, and their people....specifically, America.

I honest loathe the financial arguments regarding the space program. Mostly because they're way off base and come from a skewed position regarding priorities and fiscal realities.

I mention that NASA's budget is, and always has been a pittance of the Federal budget. People hear something like 6 billion dollars for fiscal 2008 for space exploration programs and they're aghast (I think that's probably a high figure, actually).

It's going to cost a hundred billion dollars over the next 12 years to fund our manned lunar program. "Oh my God, we can't afford that!"

But the fact is, "Yes, we can, easily."

That amounts to less than $30.00 per year per American...less than 8 cents a day!

Know how much Apollo 11 cost an American citizen in 1969?

About $1.80.

That's it. One whale of a good ticket price for the actual Greatest Show on Earth...or, in space, as it were!

The entire Apollo program cost Americans 3 cents a day for the decade it took to accomplish it...in it's entirety.

Know what Americans spent on "Black Friday", 2007...the traditional start of the Christmas shopping season?

$16,400,000,000.00

One day...the entire NASA budget for a year...on Christmas! $55.00 per capita...in one day! 82% more, in one day, than it will require to fund Constellation for a YEAR!

It's difficult to argue space exploration costs when such things as that happen all the time in America.

Why we dont just start printing a whole new batch of money and Put NASA back in the Black!

D:

NASA does operate in the black. What they do with the little money they get is absoluetly astounding!

[DONTEATUS]

I hear you MId and still want more out of the American people and the other countries that are already contributing to the efforts in space exploration. Your numbers shameful to our American pride ,we should all step up to the plate and vote and write letters to our Senators,ect public officials,even a prayer or two. Just look at NASA history its like you have said Unriveled in the World! We are still the Greatest Country on this Rock Lets Get back to the bussiness of Leadeing. P.S. If you dont get a copy of when we left Earth I`ll send you mine asap .

[MID]

. P.S. If you dont get a copy of when we left Earth I`ll send you mine asap .

Thanks, D, but I'm sure I'll get one!