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"teleporting" in bible Scriptures


Karlis

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Also the word in Greek here used in the phrase "the spirit of the lord took Peter away" is "ηρπασεν"- eyrpasen. It means "to sieze" or "to take". It does not have to mean that Peter was literally 'taken'(wasnt that a movie? :) ). It's the same word used when they say Jesus' miracles and were "siezed with fear". Or we could say "my bordom took me to Disney Land", and it does not mean I was so board, that I teleported to Mickey ;)

Just some thoughts...

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translations and word meanings are always fascinating, and decidedly... difficult.

I work in software, software that is translated into over 180 different languages. Even modern day translation of very common words, for global use is very very difficult (this is why "localization" costs from .35 PER word and .75 PER word to accomplish--very expensive)

I can remember years ago, in a 25,000 page documentation set my group wrote, we wrote something like this in our manual:

"When running an Exchange server in a clusted environment the machines are replicated ... blah blah blah"

What we found was the word "Machine" had NO translation into several other languages, OR had a VERY different meaning from the way we intended it to be used. We had to scour through 25,000 pages of documentation and remove and rewrite all instances of the word Machine and replace it with "Computer". The word computer can be universally translated, the word machine cannot. And that's just an example of a problem that happens TODAY. LOL, in one language, I forget which one now, had we not changed the word machine, we'd have had a whole lot of system admins in some country taking apart their replication servers, because that's what the sentence would have said to them.

It really does mean something when someone attempts to translate a word from the Bible in its original context. But sometimes, it just can't be done accurately.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Interesting thread, Karlis. Just a thought, but the term "immediately" does not necessarily mean "right this very second, in the blink of an eye" as you suggest. It means to me that it just happened quickly. The most obvious example that hit out at me is the story of the fig-tree withering.

~ Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. - Matthew 21:19

~ Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.... In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!" - Mark 11:14, 21-22.

These are both dealing with the same event, but one says "immediately", in the other it takes a whole day. It's been brought up by others that "immediately" does not necessarily mean "right this very instant", I just thought I'd share an example of where this is clearly so.

All the best,

~ Regards, PA

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Interestingly, it appears that Teleportation appears in Jewish folklore, under the name of Kefitzat Haderech.

Edited by Tiggs
I really must learn how to spell "interestingly"properly.
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Beam me up Scotty!

(Bishops) And assoone as they were come out of the water, the spirite of ye Lorde caught away Philip, that the Eunuche sawe hym no more. And he went on his way reioycyng.

haha I think that is so awesome. I need me a copy.

When translating Bibles they have to pick between dynamic equivalence and formal equivalence or a happy medium between the two. The first attempts to get the message across in the eye's of the translator while the second is close to word per word translation. The problem with the first is the meaning can be changed by a translator, accident or not, and the second might not make sense because expression in one language do not easily translate.

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translations and word meanings are always fascinating, and decidedly... difficult.

I work in software, software that is translated into over 180 different languages. Even modern day translation of very common words, for global use is very very difficult (this is why "localization" costs from .35 PER word and .75 PER word to accomplish--very expensive)

I can remember years ago, in a 25,000 page documentation set my group wrote, we wrote something like this in our manual:

"When running an Exchange server in a clusted environment the machines are replicated ... blah blah blah"

What we found was the word "Machine" had NO translation into several other languages, OR had a VERY different meaning from the way we intended it to be used. We had to scour through 25,000 pages of documentation and remove and rewrite all instances of the word Machine and replace it with "Computer". The word computer can be universally translated, the word machine cannot. And that's just an example of a problem that happens TODAY. LOL, in one language, I forget which one now, had we not changed the word machine, we'd have had a whole lot of system admins in some country taking apart their replication servers, because that's what the sentence would have said to them.

It really does mean something when someone attempts to translate a word from the Bible in its original context. But sometimes, it just can't be done accurately.

That was very interesting. Thank you MissMelsWell.

PS to the thread. Could this teleportation phenomenon have anything to do with, or be a precursor to the millions and perhaps hundreds of millions of people that are going to go suddenly missing

when this whole "tribulation" thing starts? Something to think about.....

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Beam me up Scotty!

(Bishops) And assoone as they were come out of the water, the spirite of ye Lorde caught away Philip, that the Eunuche sawe hym no more. And he went on his way reioycyng.

haha I think that is so awesome. I need me a copy.

When translating Bibles they have to pick between dynamic equivalence and formal equivalence or a happy medium between the two. The first attempts to get the message across in the eye's of the translator while the second is close to word per word translation. The problem with the first is the meaning can be changed by a translator, accident or not, and the second might not make sense because expression in one language do not easily translate.

Yes. I have sum fun Inglaish translashuns of ye Baibil, don't I? :)

Edited by will_1835
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Interestingly, it appears that Teleportation appears in Jewish folklore, under the name of Kefitzat Haderech.

Ah! I remember this. But not because of my Jewish past. Because of Dune! (of course, I cought it, cus of my Jewishness at the time. But I first saw in Dune)

"The name Kwisatz Haderach from Dune universe (referred to as the "Shortening of the Way") is presumably derived from the term kefitzat haderech. The term "Haderach" is of Semitic origin: "ha" is a Hebrew prefix for "the," and "derech" means "way," "road" or "path." "Kwisatz" is related to "kfitzah", "the leap.""

For those who don't know, Dune is largely based off the Middle-East. The desert planet, with the Fremen living out in it. And there is a lot of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity in the story.

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translations and word meanings are always fascinating, and decidedly... difficult.

I work in software, software that is translated into over 180 different languages. Even modern day translation of very common words, for global use is very very difficult (this is why "localization" costs from .35 PER word and .75 PER word to accomplish--very expensive)

I can remember years ago, in a 25,000 page documentation set my group wrote, we wrote something like this in our manual:

"When running an Exchange server in a clusted environment the machines are replicated ... blah blah blah"

What we found was the word "Machine" had NO translation into several other languages, OR had a VERY different meaning from the way we intended it to be used. We had to scour through 25,000 pages of documentation and remove and rewrite all instances of the word Machine and replace it with "Computer". The word computer can be universally translated, the word machine cannot. And that's just an example of a problem that happens TODAY. LOL, in one language, I forget which one now, had we not changed the word machine, we'd have had a whole lot of system admins in some country taking apart their replication servers, because that's what the sentence would have said to them.

It really does mean something when someone attempts to translate a word from the Bible in its original context. But sometimes, it just can't be done accurately.

Indeed. And far too often, people will translate a word by simply lookingin a Lexicon, and picking which of the three to five English words sound good to them. And that absolutely cannot work. You need to have a full understanding of every single place that word is used. You have to know that the word may be translatable into 5 English words, but 95% of the time it means this. Sometimes it can be hard. There are parts where the Bible is not very clear. Usually because of a bad writing style in a particular passage, or the fact that some of the writers were not very good experts of the language they were writing in (If you read "John" in Greek, his conception of Greek is horrible! :) But it is simple and easy to read. Except the mistakes.)

This is very important. It is why I devote so much time to studying the Bible in the original languages each day. One word wrong can change so much. Language is very powerful and very important. Some people don't think it matters. But there is a passage that says "Jesus had compassion on him", that was miscopied. And some say "Jesus was infuriated at him". Big difference. I calculated it out once. And the word "Jesus", comprises only .001% of the Bible. In the NT it is .006% of occurance. That's 1/167th of 1%. Seems insignificant. Yet it would drastically change the Bible if the word "Jesus" was accidentally translated as "Buddha".

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Interestingly, it appears that Teleportation appears in Jewish folklore, under the name of Kefitzat Haderech.

Thanks Tiggs - you never cease to amaze with the stuff you bring in. This is mildly off-topic but in line with the Kefitzat Haderech. It's called the Hallal Hapanui. I had limited results with google. I first heard the word when a friend who had studied some Jewish mysticism mentioned it. It's not mentioned in the bible that I know of at least. My understanding of it (which could be incorrect) is like this. When God was ready to create the universe he needed to create a place where he "was not." Thus the Hallal Hapanui. I think it means a place of complete emptiness. If this is accurate is seems a very interesting concept to consider. Think about it....a place of complete "nothing" so he could begin creation! Maybe you or someone else would be interested in sharing thoughts/knowledge? Not to defray the topic of the thread, just an interesting diversion.

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Thanks Tiggs - you never cease to amaze with the stuff you bring in. This is mildly off-topic but in line with the Kefitzat Haderech. It's called the Hallal Hapanui. I had limited results with google. I first heard the word when a friend who had studied some Jewish mysticism mentioned it. It's not mentioned in the bible that I know of at least. My understanding of it (which could be incorrect) is like this. When God was ready to create the universe he needed to create a place where he "was not." Thus the Hallal Hapanui. I think it means a place of complete emptiness. If this is accurate is seems a very interesting concept to consider. Think about it....a place of complete "nothing" so he could begin creation! Maybe you or someone else would be interested in sharing thoughts/knowledge? Not to defray the topic of the thread, just an interesting diversion.

I'm guessing (cus transliteration is evil) that it is "חלל הפנוי"- "empty void". Both words are basically two different words on the lines of "empty" or nothingness (uh oh. here comes Atreyu and the Luck Dragon!)

Yes. Interesting. Thank you. Not Biblical. Jewish mysticism. But a lot of Jewish mysticism is cool.

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Oh I think I found an article for it and some of the concepts are very fascination. I especially like the paradox that Tzimtzum creates, it displays how God is all powerful and can be in one place and not be in one place, I always refer back to another paradox, that free will and destiny are both coexistent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzimtzum

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Interestingly, it appears that Teleportation appears in Jewish folklore, under the name of Kefitzat Haderech.
Thanks for the URL link, Tiggs. In a further link from there, here is an excerpt concerning "historic examples" of what could possibly be teleporting. It would be fascinating to know the real truth, would it not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation

Religious traditions

Accounts of miraculous teleportation occur in a number of religious traditions, such as Tay al-Ard ("folding of the earth") in Islam; Kefitzat Haderech ("the shortening of the way") in Judaism, Adhrusya sakthi (అదృశ్య శక్తి) in Hinduism. Teleportation is also known in Tibetan Buddhism. Maudgalyayana was most accomplished of all the Buddha's disciples in the various supernatural powers. These abilities included being able to move with a speed comparable to the speed of light.

One of the special powers or siddhi of many yogi was the Vayu Gaman Siddhi. Through this Siddhi a person can become capable of flying in the skies and traveling from one place to another in just a few seconds. In the Mahabharata Version the concept is called Prāpti: having unrestricted access to all places.

Alleged Examples of Teleportation

There have been many alleged accounts of teleportation, including Gil Perez, Sister Mary of Agreda, and the Moberly-Jourdain incident.

Gil Perez

On the evening of October 24, 1593, a Guardia Civil, Gil Perez, is said to have appeared suddenly in a confused state in the Plaza Mayor of Mexico City, wearing the uniform of a Philippine regiment. He claimed that moments before finding himself in Mexico he had been on sentry duty in Manila at the governor’s palace. He admitted that while he was aware that he was no longer in the Philippines, he had no idea where he was or how he came to be there. He said the governor, Don Gomez Perez Dasmariñas, had been assassinated in his wine cellar with an axe.

When it was explained to him that he was now in Mexico City, Perez refused to believe it saying that he had received his orders on the morning of October 23 in Manila Philippines and that it was therefore impossible for him to be in Mexico City on the evening of the 24th. The authorities placed Perez in jail, as a deserter and for the possibility that he may have been in the service of Satan. The Most Holy Tribunal of the Inquisition questioned the soldier, but all he could say in his defense was that he had traveled from Manila to Mexico "in less time than it takes a c*** to crow".

Two months later, news from the Philippines arrived by Manila Galleon, confirming the fact of the literal axing on October 23 of Dasmariñas in a mutiny of Chinese rowers, as well as other points of the mysterious soldier’s fantastic story. Witnesses confirmed that Gil Perez had indeed been on duty in Manila just before arriving in Mexico. Furthermore, one of the passengers on the ship recognized Perez and swore that he had seen him in the Philippines on October 23. Gil Perez eventually returned to the Philippines and took up his former position as a palace guard, living thenceforth an apparently uneventful life.

This account has received wide circulation, but historian Mike Dash notes [10] that there are some problems with the story which call its accuracy into question. Perhaps most importantly, he notes that the earliest extant accounts of Perez's mysterious disappearance date from more than a century after the supposed events. Though Perez was supposedly held for some time on suspicion of witchcraft, no records of his imprisonment or interrogation have been found.

Sister Mary of Agreda

Sister Mary of Agreda was a seventeenth-century Carmelite nun in Spain who claimed that, while deep in prayer at her convent, she was mysteriously transported to New Mexico, where she converted the Jumano Indians to Christianity. When Spanish missionaries reached the Jumano in 1622, they found that the Indians were already familiar with Christianity, which they claimed was brought to them by a "lady in blue."

The Moberly-Jourdain Incident

Charlotte Anne Moberly and Eleanor Jourdain were two English schoolteachers who visited Versailles Palace on August 10, 1901. While seeking the Petit Trianon, they claimed to have been transported back to the seventeenth century. They published their experience in a book called The Trianon Adventure.

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Interesting. I always wondered how Hernando Cortes landed on Mexico the exact day that Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent savior god, was prophesied to return. The Aztecs knew he was coming to tumble them and in addition they had omens, a three headed comet in the sky, a lady weeping by the lake, which later came to be known in legend as La Llorana.

Well stories of the Southwest of America and New Spain always excite me so I looked more into it. I wonder if the account is true or just Catholic propaganda. It seems dubious that the missionaries would question a tribe coming to their mission when there only reason to forged forward into new territory was to convert others. Still it is fantastic to think about it.

In these states of quiet prayer, María de Ágreda’s long-standing missionary zeal emerged in an unusual way. Inexplicably, she found herself in another land, encountering the very people she had longed to visit and evangelize, noting specific details of the terrain, weather, and a people she identified as the Jumanos. She said there was no language barrier between her and the Jumanos, and described a particular Jumano named Capitán Tuerto, a fearsome chieftain, so named because he was “one-eyed,” from the Spanish word “tuerto.”

On July 22, 1629, a band of fifty Jumanos arrived at the mission, to again make their request. Although Benavides had not yet left, Perea—as the new custodian—received them this time. Informed by the archbishop’s inquiry, he was now very intent on knowing what had prompted their repeated attempts. Why had they come, and at whose instruction? Perea asked them, in a combination of Spanish and sign language. For baptism, they replied similarly, at the urging of a woman in religious dress.

No doubt awash with excitement, Perea immediately sent for Benavides, and the two continued to engage the Jumanos. Capitán Tuerto led the Jumano delegation, along with eleven other Indian captains representing neighboring tribes and allies.

“We called them [in]to the convent,” Benavides wrote. “Gazing at a portrait of Mother Luisa, Capitán Tuerto said, ‘A woman in similar garb wanders among us . . . preaching’.”

The priests pointed to the same picture of the famous elderly nun wearing the blue cape of the Conceptionist nuns, and asked the Jumanos if that was the same woman. The Jumanos shook their heads and said their Lady in Blue was much younger and far more beautiful. When the priests asked why the Jumanos had not mentioned this before, they replied that they were not asked, and that they thought she was known at the mission.

“Immediately we decided to send . . . priests,” Benavides wrote. “With these same Indians as guides, they departed on their apostolic mission. After traveling more than one hundred leagues . . . to the east, they reached the Jumano nation, who came out to receive them in procession, carrying a large cross and garlands of flowers. They learned from the Indians that the same nun had instructed them as to how they should come out in procession to receive them, and she had helped them to decorate the cross.”

In 1699 elder Indians at Gia River, New Mexico, recalled for Captain Juan Mateo Mange and Padre Eusebio Kino the story of a beautiful white woman dressed in blue with a black covering on her head, who had spoken to them and went off through the air. They heard similar accounts of María de Ágreda’s apparitions from Indians in Sonoita, Arizona.

Between 1710-1740, Indians near present day Nacogdoches, Texas, asked the French explorer Louis St. Denise for blue cloth to bury their dead. When asked why, they said it was in memory of the Lady in Blue who came to them years ago, teaching baptism and the Christian ways.

http://www.cambridgeconnections.net/Maria_TradRevDec05.html

Edited by Clovis
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Hi B_Mom -- regarding "out of context nonsense" :P

Here is an example of how a simple statement from your above post can have a different interpretation, apart of the one you meant to convey. :devil:

You wrote: "I dont like to follow that bible".

A literal translation of that could picture a bible walking ahead of you -- and you -- refusing to follow behind it. :)

Ah, the power behind the meaning of words ... think about this, please. B)

Cheers,

Karlis

Well if I were to talk about the bible and say I don't like to follow it..people would know I meant to beleive in it..take in anything it says as truth....I seriously doubt anyone would think walking behind it LMAO..

If that were the case then those that followed the word of Jesus in the bible..must mean - they ran around following his every word?? or how about this -- he then said - go forth and spread the word of God = they went and took the word God and spread it on everything LOL

it goes to show you that the bible is nothing more than a book of metaphores..<--how anyone can find truth in it is beyond me....

example for you Karlis... - Star signs...- people who like to beleive in what their star sign says..may not like or understand what is written for that day, so instead, they take from it different context to SUIT THEMSELVES..and roll with it <--I used to do it myself LMAO...that's what people do with the bible non stop :P

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Well if I were to talk about the bible and say I don't like to follow it..people would know I meant to beleive in it..take in anything it says as truth....I seriously doubt anyone would think walking behind it LMAO..

If that were the case then those that followed the word of Jesus in the bible..must mean - they ran around following his every word?? or how about this -- he then said - go forth and spread the word of God = they went and took the word God and spread it on everything LOL

it goes to show you that the bible is nothing more than a book of metaphores..<--how anyone can find truth in it is beyond me....

example for you Karlis... - Star signs...- people who like to beleive in what their star sign says..may not like or understand what is written for that day, so instead, they take from it different context to SUIT THEMSELVES..and roll with it <--I used to do it myself LMAO...that's what people do with the bible non stop :P

Lol I agree this interpretation seems to appeal to male sci-fi fans.

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As many will say, "a fanatical believer will believe many myths", Yetihunter. :w00t:The tough question remains: "What is truth"?

You don't know what is actual truth, that is why you have chosen a faith to follow..in the hope it is the truth and therefore you believe it is truth

you call what catholics believe in myths?? if so then its a tad baised of you...when you have no way of disproving them...

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Lol I agree this interpretation seems to appeal to male sci-fi fans.

You will find that so many christians here love their sci-fi..one even said he was rushing off to go watch - stargate and will return to post afterwards ha ha ha :lol:

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Can miracles be explained rationally, through use of "power of mind over matter"? For example, could the numerous examples of "teleporting" in the Bible Scriptures be examples of psychic powers?

I think the best example of this is the Mary of Agreda story: http://clcpress.com/agreda/index.html

It was considered God's Work, way back then, more than anything else and Mary was considered a saint by the Church. I think it was Mary's psychic powers and her will to do God's Work that allowed these events to take place. I am inspired by this person and the power she demonstrated.

John

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Agreed. Acts 8:

39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

Seems to be via the Spirit of the Lord in this case.

The word spirit (L4151) means, “a current of air” and comes from a word (L4154) that means, “to breathe hard”

The word away (L726) means, “to seize, to catch up, take by force, pluck, pull”

It sounds like the classic Star Trek “beam me up Scotty!”

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