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Guyver

Scientific Evidence of Creationism

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drakonwick

I say let Yeti follow his list and make his points.

He got bombarded before he could even begin, thats a bit unfair.

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Stellar
1. The Creation Itself

2. The Holy Bible

3. Problems with Abiogenesis

4. Problems with Evolution

5. Problems with the Fossil Record

6. Problems with Radiometeric Dating Methods

7. Unexplained Phenomenon

8. Personal Testimony

9. Miracles and Healings

10. Prophecies and Other Proofs

Interesting... wheres the heading "Evidence of creationism"? Showing problems with evolution and other theories does not constitute evidence of something else such as creationism.

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Doug1029
You're insane. And my momentary lapse of self control was not a point with the index finger. In any event, I leave you to your darkness. There is no such thing as a reasonable discussion with you. You didn't even allow me to make my points.

Guys! Kindly SHUT UP and let him make his posts! THEN you can pick him apart.

Doug

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BlindMessiah
I say let Yeti follow his list and make his points.

He got bombarded before he could even begin, thats a bit unfair.

All's fair in love and evolution/creation debates. :D

But I agree, he didn't even get to post anything before being attacked...

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SQLserver
But I agree, he didn't even get to post anything before being attacked...

A little sorry... But mainly I was posting on his Creation stuff. He said he had already finished that. That made it seem to me as though it was up for grabs.

-SQLserver

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BlindMessiah
Guys! Kindly SHUT UP and let him make his posts! THEN you can pick him apart.

Doug

No offense, but this is exactly what I'd expect from an Obama supporter. Only one of you guys would say, kindly shut up... such silliness. My friend, let me show you how to do things the conservative way.

Guys... SHUT UP... or else I'll make a preemptive strike. :gun:

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WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT

Yeti, Please continue... I for one would like to read your post!

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Stellar

Excuse me... but who made you the forum police? Complain all you want, people can post whenever the hell they want.

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SQLserver
Excuse me... but who made you the forum police? Complain all you want, people can post whenever the hell they want.

Nah, they do have some point. They aren't making you, they are justing suggesting we should be polite.

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Belle.
Nah, they do have some point. They aren't making you, they are justing suggesting we should be polite.

Cause otherwise there will be no creationists to fight discuss things with ^_^

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BlindMessiah
Excuse me... but who made you the forum police? Complain all you want, people can post whenever the hell they want.

:sigh: No they can't. They can post within the rules. With that said, following your logic, I can post whatever the hell I want, and what I want to post, is to tell you guys to give him a chance. So you've presented a self-defeating argument.

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BlindMessiah
Cause otherwise there will be no creationists to fight discuss things with ^_^

And there will be no one to bash inform.

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Tiggs

* Blinks *

Okay. We appear to have a bit of a train-wreck thread.

It would seem to me that this would probably work better as a series of blog entries, Yeti.

However - a year or so ago, the UM boards used to host debate tournaments. As an alternative - if Saru's receptive to the idea, maybe we could hold a series of formal debates on the big, re-occurring issues that seem to come up, time and again, on the S vs S board. That way, both sides of the debate could be heard without one side being drowned out by the other.

Anyone interested?

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Mattshark
* Blinks *

Okay. We appear to have a bit of a train-wreck thread.

It would seem to me that this would probably work better as a series of blog entries, Yeti.

However - a year or so ago, the UM boards used to host debate tournaments. As an alternative - if Saru's receptive to the idea, maybe we could hold a series of formal debates on the big, re-occurring issues that seem to come up, time and again, on the S vs S board. That way, both sides of the debate could be heard without one side being drowned out by the other.

Anyone interested?

I'd be more than happy to.

But Yeti, people may have jumped the gun a little but if you have real scientific evidence for creation you should be able to counter it.

I'm sorry to tell you though trying to provide (incorrect) evidence against evolution does not equate to providing evidence for creationism.

Edited by Mattshark

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Guyver

You can't see the wind. You can see the effects of the wind. You believe it's there. So it is with God but many of you can't see it. *edits remainder of this post*

There's no point because.....I'm at a loss. I give. I've tried - more than most. It's easy to see why no Creationists stay around to talk to you people. You lack the basic common decency to participate in discussion or debate. I actually had the idea of a debate before I decided to attempt this thread. There's no way I would do it now, after seeing what's going down and I don't know anyone else around here who'd be fool enough to try. The thought of standing around, in the center of a circle of cackling hyenas like we have here is just way too unappealing. Just don't talk trash about Creationists anymore because you had the chance to actually hear from one this time and you showed your true colors. I guess the whole part of human decency hasn't really "evolved" for some yet. Uuug! Bang some bones together caveman!!!

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Mattshark
You can't see the wind. You can see the effects of the wind. You believe it's there. So it is with God but many of you can't see it. *edits remainder of this post*

There's no point because.....I'm at a loss. I give. I've tried - more than most. It's easy to see why no Creationists stay around to talk to you people. You lack the basic common decency to participate in discussion or debate. I actually had the idea of a debate before I decided to attempt this thread. There's no way I would do it now, after seeing what's going down and I don't know anyone else around here who'd be fool enough to try. The thought of standing around, in the center of a circle of cackling hyenas like we have here is just way too unappealing. Just don't talk trash about Creationists anymore because you had the chance to actually hear from one this time and you showed your true colors. I guess the whole part of human decency hasn't really "evolved" for some yet. Uuug! Bang some bones together caveman!!!

C'mon Yeti, there is no need for that. I would be interested in talking to you about it and discussing it.

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Belle.

Yeti, you actually don't have to respond to every post.

Just take your time and post/respond to what you want to. Lots of us are actually interested in what you base your beliefs on.

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eqgumby
* Blinks *

Okay. We appear to have a bit of a train-wreck thread.

It would seem to me that this would probably work better as a series of blog entries, Yeti.

However - a year or so ago, the UM boards used to host debate tournaments. As an alternative - if Saru's receptive to the idea, maybe we could hold a series of formal debates on the big, re-occurring issues that seem to come up, time and again, on the S vs S board. That way, both sides of the debate could be heard without one side being drowned out by the other.

Anyone interested?

I'd be interested.

It's a shame that the yeti-man got trounced so fast. It really was a misunderstanding.

I'd suggest to yeti, that he create a new thread for each point. Maybe even write it up in MS word, cite sources, a nice big one-subject post. Then let the flames commence! :tu:

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Guyver
A little sorry... But mainly I was posting on his Creation stuff. He said he had already finished that. That made it seem to me as though it was up for grabs.

-SQLserver

NO YOU DIDN'T!!!!!! The truth of the matter is that you didn't even have a clue. You didn't even bother to fully read the OP. You saw what YOU THOUGHT was an opening, began to salivate and then jumped in with one of your ginormous (probably pre-fabbed) posts. You don't even express an original thought of your own. At least I make my points with MY OWN MIND! You just copy and paste all the crap that you've already used on these boards probably a dozen times or more. So whatever.

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SQLserver
NO YOU DIDN'T!!!!!! The truth of the matter is that you didn't even have a clue. You didn't even bother to fully read the OP. You saw what YOU THOUGHT was an opening, began to salivate and then jumped in with one of your ginormous (probably pre-fabbed) posts. You don't even express an original thought of your own. At least I make my points with MY OWN MIND! You just copy and paste all the crap that you've already used on these boards probably a dozen times or more. So whatever.

There are several points I would like to make here....

A. On what I've posted and how horrifically awful it is.

B. On why Copy and Paste arguments are 100% fine, and even better then original ones.

A. Lets look at each of my posts.

1st post- Perhaps this one was a little harsh. I hadn't realized you had more info. to come.

However, whether you had more info to come or not, most of that post was still relevant.

B. I reposted my questions for you even though you read them, you never replied to them.

C. I post some evidence for the age of the Earth. THIS IS RELEVANT to your 'radiometric dating' thread. It is obvious you were going to attack radiometric dating in an attempt to redefine the scientific age of the Earth. If anything, I made your life easier here. I explained it would be a waste of time.

D. 4-5 -- not much was said here, just replied to your outburst.

E. The Big Post. YOU said you were done with Creation. Generally, THAT means that your points are open for debate.

F. Simply posted an extremely relevant article to your Creation post. THAT was OK, was you were already done it.

G. Simply gave everyone some very useful links on the Evolution of Organs. It pertained to your Creation Post.

The other posts were just a bunch of non-argumentive 'oks' and 'sorrys' and 'I agrees'.

So. It seems to me the fault lies completely and utterly with you. If you wanted people to wait until you were done, you should have SAID SO.

Normally, when somebody finishes posting something it is up for debate. It is quite clear that you weren't clear at all about this.

Now for point B. IF you ask me, this point is rather more important then your lack of communication.

B.

You have accused me of 'copy and pasting'. OH NOES! The ironic part of this is your entire argument was a single copy and paste from Behe's essay.

I've been accused of this oh-so-evil crime a ridiculous number of times.

This is what it boils down to:

1. An argument is an argument. My given argument happened to tear yours apart. It doesn't matter who wrote it.

2. I'm not in this to prove I'm a better debater, or better at theology or Evolution or ANYTHING. I'm in this to explain that ALL of the evidence points towards an Old Earth, an Old Universe, and Evolution, and the rest of Science. I'm here to speculate over the Psychology driving Religion and fear. OK? So I'm not 'cheating' or anything when I copy and paste. I'm showing you how you are wrong.

3. You realize copy and paste is essentially how science works, right? Scientists are NOTHING by themselves; It is the vast accumulation of all of the observation, evidence, and experiments that creates Science. If scientists never copied from each other, then we'd all have to start from scratch.

I AM NOT A EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGIST. If an EXPERT(Believe it or not, they still exist, and they are smarter then you in their field!) has written and researched a beautiful essay, I'm not going to write 1 for you.

4. You realize the same arguments work over and over is because that CREATIONISTS HAVE NO ANSWERS, right? I mean, there are thousands of arguments and questions Creationists have no answers to, but there are a few REALLY good ones.

I hope those 4 points conclude that:

A. Copy and Paste is completely fine.

B. Borrowing material is how science works.

C. There is nothing wrong with using the same arguments over.

You don't even express an original thought of your own. At least I make my points with MY OWN MIND!

I've already explained:

I DON'T CARE.

I'm NOT HERE to prove I'm smarter then you, a better writer then you, a better philosopher then you, or a better debater then you.

STAY in your arrogant 'LOL I'm better lolz' position. I DON'T CARE. I already knew you were fairly arrogant(or prone to arrogance), or you wouldn't be a Fundamentalist Christian.

I hope that settles that. Either you can continue with your original plan, try and defend BEHE'S essay, or stop participating in your own thread.

Your pick.

-SQLserver

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Rosewin

Yetiman has more patience than me when it comes to ID and creationism that is for sure. The way others simply cannot even listen to another person's ideas about them and simply say NO YOU ARE WRONG ID IS THIS LALALALA totally puts me off from entering these threads. This does not include everyone though for a few have attempted to actually understand others and how they feel about ID. Some people though are just totally indoctrinated and are unable to entertain a thought. Pondering and getting into the mind of others to see things they way they do is what a few of us like to do though.

Aristotle said it best: It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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SQLserver
NO YOU ARE WRONG ID IS THIS LALALALA

I don't believe anyone is saying that. I think we are all agreeing that:

1. ID is NOT SCIENCE, as there is no evidence for it.

2. ID is most often used by Creationists to wedge their religion into schools.

I cannot believe anyone here believes that Creationism and ID are technically the same thing. They aren't. Just look at a definition of each.

ID is a more reasonable religious view then Creationism.

Still doesn't make it Science, truth, or supported. It is all complete guess work.

Cheers,

SQLserver

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Guyver

The only thing I have to say is that those who actually read my post and understood my intentions brought up a good point. I should have included a section specifically for scientific evidence for creationism - that point I would conceed. But anyway, now that I've cooled down I still think it's a waste of my time here. That's fine it doesn't really matter because all of the thought that I have put into these issues in the past couple of months has helped me to better organize my thoughts and I've learned alot. One thing though - I really don't see any other creationist here, and never have, seen anyone step up and be willing to discuss/debate as much as I have. I would have hoped to at least get some props or back up from my own side. I know they're out there but they dont say anything and I think that sucks. All the skeptics and whatever labels you want to put on yourselves sure do stick together. If I had it to do again and I wasn't the front-runner, at least I would prop up my bros. - so I hope someone out there hears that part. Regards to all.

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WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
* Blinks *

Okay. We appear to have a bit of a train-wreck thread.

It would seem to me that this would probably work better as a series of blog entries, Yeti.

However - a year or so ago, the UM boards used to host debate tournaments. As an alternative - if Saru's receptive to the idea, maybe we could hold a series of formal debates on the big, re-occurring issues that seem to come up, time and again, on the S vs S board. That way, both sides of the debate could be heard without one side being drowned out by the other.

Anyone interested?

Oh No!!!! Not the podiums!!!!

hee hee lol

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Rosewin
I don't believe anyone is saying that. I think we are all agreeing that:

1. ID is NOT SCIENCE, as there is no evidence for it.

2. ID is most often used by Creationists to wedge their religion into schools.

I cannot believe anyone here believes that Creationism and ID are technically the same thing. They aren't. Just look at a definition of each.

ID is a more reasonable religious view then Creationism.

Still doesn't make it Science, truth, or supported. It is all complete guess work.

Cheers,

SQLserver

I am more inclined to agree with your first point but throughly reject your second point. I can care less about Discover Institute's political agenda to get ID into class. Wasted effort. My interest and hope is that just a few brilliant minds investigate the question of ID similarly as they do quantum physics. And yes some people do believe ID and creationism are the same exact thing. Never considered you one of them though. But for those who say ID can never break out off the religious mold I can only say anything is possible in the future.

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