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The Paranormal Skeptic

Attn: Ghost hunters /Paranormal Investigator

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The Paranormal Skeptic

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334738,00.html

This article made me laugh then I got insanely mad. I hope to God people are not really paying this group 20 dollars and hour. I really feel like these are the people that need to be exposed because they are the ones who make this field look bad.

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NoahJaymes

Yeah, that is insane. However, they were dissed on Saturday Night Live a few weeks ago, or at least on the episode I watched. "Weekend update with Amy Poehler and Seth whatever his face"

Edited by CryWolf

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TRPS-TECH1

Wow , that is rediclous . I can't beleive they charge to do an investigation . If they are in it for profit they really need to be stopped . These are the type of people that will charge you $200 per night , and go make false evidence just to make themselves look good so they can make more money off of some poor sucker that falls for it . GRRRR

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Pluto-x

There are many groups out there doing the wrong thing and in it for the wrong reasons. They definitely need to be weeded out and banned from the field.

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NoahJaymes

Well, can't say they can be banned....Not exactly like we have a network and pay taxes or whatever.

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The Paranormal Skeptic

I just hope people do there research before calling someone that charges $20.00 an hour. Not only that but they got the idea to do this by watching Paranormal State, wtf???? That means one thing to me, they have no experience.

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Guardian Angel of Fire

omg....cant believe a groups charging people who claim their having experiences to go investigate and show them what they want to see and want to hear, then they get disapointed when you find nothing...wow..it should b free

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Aanica
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334738,00.html

This article made me laugh then I got insanely mad. I hope to God people are not really paying this group 20 dollars and hour. I really feel like these are the people that need to be exposed because they are the ones who make this field look bad.

You are right to bring this to attention because the media will make us all suffer they will generalize and and we will get the old"birds of a feather flock togeather" thing.

hopefully they wont be around long..

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Nile_Shaman
I just hope people do there research before calling someone that charges $20.00 an hour.

OK, I will play devil's advocate. Let me throw some contrary ideas and thoughts out to you guys, for discussion.

While I agree that if one is investigating for their own information and learning, or performing what they see as a volunteer service for people, it is better to not be charging, I have wondered how long the PI field can NOT charge when we begin seeing calls for liability insurance and bonding for investigators as I have seen in some threads. (and this is wise, actually, if you are tromping about someone's house in the dark, even if you KNOW everyone with you won't pick up a valuable if they see it, or you get blamed for breaking something by the homeowner).

I saw in one where it was suggested that if the homeowner wasn't advised that a phenomenon was actually a possible electrical fault, not a ghost, and the home burned down later, that the PI should be accountable, for example. I didn't agree on that thread, and if it is the accepted idea that it IS the PI's job to be an expert in such things beyond the scope of paranormal, who is going to pay for that training or evaluation? In another thread it was suggested to get soil samples tested from paranormal locations. Who will pay for that?

If one is adamant to only depend on scientific measurements and testing, and zero psychic or similar involvement, those things cost someone.

I don't like the thought of charging people either, but unless this is to become the forte of the moneyed, it may come the time, especially with gas prices soaring, to contemplate and debate the issue and perhaps there are options with would be ethically acceptable to the community.

For example, a poster here said that the group which came to her asked for the gas cost to get to her. That struck me as fair, especially if it is in another town. Maybe a twenty buck charge for an investigation to go toward bonding would be acceptible to some if the client asks for them to come out, versus voluntary investigations done by the group for their own training and experience. Being paid hourly stinks to me, it encourages longer investigations or the homeowner fearing calling back if problems worsen and they cannot afford more. But gas charges once, or a one time fee to help cover insurance and bonding fees might be more acceptible. I don't know.

I don't charge, but I might have to if I went with some of these more progressive ideas. Time IS money and real expertise has value.

Or does it?

Or maybe you really do feel that zero fee is ever acceptible and this should remain as an expensive hobby, basically.

Ay what point does your group cross the line from being able to easily do it for free and when does it become too much and need some support? Do you get it by selling books of your investigations? Charging membership dues for the costs? Asking a per investigation fee? Getting your own extra part-time job?

And as for these guys' expertise being questioned, define trained well and experienced in this field. Who sets the standard? Can we set standards? What should they be?

Let's talk about it, seriously.

JMO

NS

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The Paranormal Skeptic

The way I see it, if you’re called to do an investigation in another town or city you converse with your team members and plan a budget to pay your own way to get there. If you decide it is too far then find a team closer to them that may be willing to help. I don’t think you should charge for anything, if they want to throw you a couple extra bucks for the trip that is different, but I will always be against charging in this field, until we can scientifically prove evidence. For instance my team last week was contacted by a family in Tennessee we called a meeting and decided that us being in Ohio couldn’t realistically make this drive, so we contacted a teams located in there area and as of now we are waiting to here back from the family and team. To me this field isn’t a race its about helping people, not about charging people an insane amount of money for evidence that cant be proved. That’s just my opinion.

In my opinion if you can afford DVR systems, EMF meters, and IR cameras but claim you can’t afford gas??? Something is wrong, I am not rich I work 40 hours a week at a decent job, I have a wife, bills, and a daughter on the way and I fund almost my entire group. I will never ask a dime from a client, ever, not for gas not for investigations not for anything.

Another thing is people are worried this hobby may be to expensive I suggest they may find a new way to spend there time and money. This is a very expensive hobby but I find it rewarding in other ways, not by charging people.

Edited by Black_Swamp_Paranormal

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Pluto-x

IMO...

Scientists are funded by their universities or given grants by the government. If we could ever get to the point where our government can recognize our field as a standard or main stream science, I think that we should be treated like scientists by our government. We should have the rights and be able to request government grants and funding. ( If we ever got certified by the government for what we do ). We will ALWAYS be held accountable for investigations & our clients. People sometimes do not realize how much responsibility is involved. God forbid if your client has a meltdown due to distress of Paranormal Activity. You have to make sure you ALWAYS do right by your client. There's a huge stronghold on a client psychologically. HONESTY is best on how you treat your client. A client can turn around and sue anyone of our investigators in the field for a serious situation such as property getting damaged, psychological distress, emotional distress, the list can go on and on. I would recommend if you can afford it to get yourself insurance. It can't hurt. You can recover equipment if damaged, or pay for someone's injury if hurt on a hunt.

There's a lot of things to take into consideration that a lot of Paranormal enthusiasts over look. There's a ton of responsibility and accountability.

That is why I take things very seriously on how our field is looked upon. Professionalism is very important. If you have all of this fighting, bickering, bad mouthing, and over jealous teams out there giving our field a bad reputation, I just don't think it will happen for our community to be taken that serious by the government to fund us or grant us certification. That's why its so important for everyone to work together, share evidence, and more opportunities will be given to us for studying and research. As much as you might dislike another group or person, I always said we are stronger in numbers and will get a lot further working together instead of against each other.

I know I'll get some smart remarks with my opinion here because I have stated my opinion about PRS, but I have my own personal reasons. My approach might be in poor taste and tiresome regarding PRS, but I'm also entitled to my own opinions. The people that are out there charging clients is just the wrong approach.

Edited by Pluto-x

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Meik

Capitalism works. If there are none who are willing to do a job for free then what is the problem with someone that charges? Likewise, if there are people who will do it for free, then why would the client pay someone else?

I see no problem with people charging fees.

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Nile_Shaman
so we contacted a teams located in there area and as of now we are waiting to here back from the family and team. To me this field isn’t a race its about helping people, not about charging people an insane amount of money for evidence that cant be proved. That’s just my opinion.

So, how do you know who you refer them to is qualified or even safe? Are you liable if the homeowner agrees and these folks turn out to be less than honorable? Is it time for some sort of standard, however simple to be set?

Where does the budget money come from? Members? I reckon that is fine if you get a dozen calls per year, or more if you have a larger group. But, when it is a dozen a month?

20 bucks an hour for a PROFESSIONAL, insured and bonded team who knows what they are doing and can fix the problem isn't insane to me if I had a problem I couldn't fix myself. But, for a couple hobbyists or enthusiasts wanting cool pictures and evps, yeah.

If you do it for free who owns the pictures and evps and all rights to them? I have read a dispute over that very issue recently here. No contracts spelling out the agreements, nothing, and the threats of legal action. You ok with possibly losing your house in a civil suit?

Just thoughts.

NS

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The Paranormal Skeptic
So, how do you know who you refer them to is qualified or even safe? Are you liable if the homeowner agrees and these folks turn out to be less than honorable? Is it time for some sort of standard, however simple to be set?

Where does the budget money come from? Members? I reckon that is fine if you get a dozen calls per year, or more if you have a larger group. But, when it is a dozen a month?

20 bucks an hour for a PROFESSIONAL, insured and bonded team who knows what they are doing and can fix the problem isn't insane to me if I had a problem I couldn't fix myself. But, for a couple hobbyists or enthusiasts wanting cool pictures and evps, yeah.

If you do it for free who owns the pictures and evps and all rights to them? I have read a dispute over that very issue recently here. No contracts spelling out the agreements, nothing, and the threats of legal action. You ok with possibly losing your house in a civil suit?

Just thoughts.

NS

What does charging someone have to do with the possibility of being sued? People can honestly sue you for anything. Also you know nothing about my group, or other groups we associate with. If you would like to know what insurance agency we go through PM me, if you would like to know the names and numbers of our two lawyers once again PM me. If you would like to know where our money comes from, I already told you, my job. It isn’t my problem if other groups I don’t know do not have these things, if you’re not willing to spend the money don’t come into this field, plain and simple. My point is I do not think people should charge anyone that can not be proved.

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Veliska
So, how do you know who you refer them to is qualified or even safe? Are you liable if the homeowner agrees and these folks turn out to be less than honorable? Is it time for some sort of standard, however simple to be set?

Where does the budget money come from? Members? I reckon that is fine if you get a dozen calls per year, or more if you have a larger group. But, when it is a dozen a month?

20 bucks an hour for a PROFESSIONAL, insured and bonded team who knows what they are doing and can fix the problem isn't insane to me if I had a problem I couldn't fix myself. But, for a couple hobbyists or enthusiasts wanting cool pictures and evps, yeah.

If you do it for free who owns the pictures and evps and all rights to them? I have read a dispute over that very issue recently here. No contracts spelling out the agreements, nothing, and the threats of legal action. You ok with possibly losing your house in a civil suit?

Just thoughts.

NS

Whoa I never thought of it that way.

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MasterPo

No one and I mean no one can command the paranormal to happen Johnny-on-the-spot.

So how can you justify charging for an investigation that may not get anything?

Clearly IMO a conflict of interest. Not too many people are going to pay $$$ for nothing. But if you show dust orbs and recordings normal house sounds and normal EMF levels in a modern house at best you're tell the client what they want to hear; At worse your feeding thier paranoia!

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Nile_Shaman
What does charging someone have to do with the possibility of being sued? People can honestly sue you for anything. Also you know nothing about my group, or other groups we associate with. If you would like to know what insurance agency we go through PM me, if you would like to know the names and numbers of our two lawyers once again PM me. If you would like to know where our money comes from, I already told you, my job. It isn’t my problem if other groups I don’t know do not have these things, if you’re not willing to spend the money don’t come into this field, plain and simple. My point is I do not think people should charge anyone that can not be proved.

Look, dude, I was discussing your topic with you. Sorry if all you wanted was self validation and agreement.

NS

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The Paranormal Skeptic
Look, dude, I was discussing your topic with you. Sorry if all you wanted was self validation and agreement.

NS

Your are right and I apologize, lets stick to the topic. I got a little carried away, again I apologize. I think someone who charges would actually be more apt to being sued rather than someone who wasn’t charging wouldn’t you think?

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Pluto-x

What about the idea of Government Grants? Or Universities funding P.I.'s? If our kind could get some certification, would that be considered possible?

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The Paranormal Skeptic

Well i know if you are registered as a real non profit organization it is possible.

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JustNormal
No one and I mean no one can command the paranormal to happen Johnny-on-the-spot.

So how can you justify charging for an investigation that may not get anything?

Clearly IMO a conflict of interest. Not too many people are going to pay $$$ for nothing. But if you show dust orbs and recordings normal house sounds and normal EMF levels in a modern house at best you're tell the client what they want to hear; At worse your feeding thier paranoia!

I agree, What about Better Business Bureau, IF there are problems after the fact? JN

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Pluto-x
Well i know if you are registered as a real non profit organization it is possible.

My team is registered through New York State. :D

( Non Profit )

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Veliska
That is cool...I mean in away if you think about it...the client is somewhat doing the team a favor by letting them investiagate.

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Mabon

Hello everyone.

To charge or not to charge? That is the question.

If a paranormal investigation team would charge it would be the same reason that anyone else in any other field or endeavor charges; 1. for their time 2. for their knowledge on the subject 3. for their expenses.

Two of these can be proven, time and expense. Knowledge, though subjective, can also be proven but it will be determined by what type of investigation the group intends to conduct.

I do not say this to insult but as a matter of fact. There are no regulations in the field, there are no guidelines and there is no concrete definition of what a PI is or what role they play in an investigation.

In my mind it goes something like this to start formulating a agency or network of interested participants.

1. What a PI is, what role they play has to be established first.

2. After that a Constitution or frame work established by the body of investigators, The investigators may or may not be a part of the same team. In fact it would be better if they were not. So that there is a sense of impartiality.

3. Then from that core body a list of subjects for study can be determined. So that a unified standard is set.

4. Groups that wish to belong to the 'parent' group, must comply with the Constitution and the subjects chosen. AKA good housekeeping seal for PI's.

Information sharing would be a benefit as well as knowing that a group in another state should have the same SOP as your own group. That way you can recommend them without hesitation.

These are just some thoughts considering it's Saturday and I'm out of here for the day. :P

Regards,

Mabon.

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NoahJaymes

We are in the process of getting a grant, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get one. Just have to be registered as a non-profit organization and file for a grant....pretty easy

We never charge for an investigation, or for anything. However we have fundraising, raffles, and the likes which brings in a lot of money. We work with radio shows to promote the team, to put us out there and we give them a certain percentage of our donations.

We are actually the main focus for a radio show for this summer out of Dayton, Ohio...You just have to TRY to make things happen and things start happening on their own.

We have enough public references to become a TAPS family member, they just said wait till October then its done, must have a year of service.

Not to be conceited, but if you are a well driven organization everything comes easy.

Someone said something about 12 cases a month....NO TEAM, NO MATTER WHAT should ever pick up that many...NOBODY. Not Taps, Not PRS, not my team, not Black Swamp, nobody.. Sometimes 4 gets to be too much.

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