Does TAPS Fake Their Evidence?

[bankai26]

Yea but watching the episode is completely different than seeing the actual evidence that you can listen to the original... then we would be able to check up on there evidence. I mean if we formulated the same conclusion that taps did that would make them all the more credible. Unless sci-fi is playing it up that when we watched it, taps rep. would plummet! i mean yes its tv and all, but the whole point that we were making is that evidence is getting pushed that should not be! the only reason you wouldn't show your own evidence is that it doesn't match your findings. Yes there are anonimity issues and stuff like that but if your showing it on tv, the evidence should be fair game. What a good way to get people involved. But, the show would be boring, sci-fi doesn't want that now do they!

[The Paranormal Skeptic]

Yea but watching the episode is completely different than seeing the actual evidence that you can listen to the original... then we would be able to check up on there evidence. I mean if we formulated the same conclusion that taps did that would make them all the more credible. Unless sci-fi is playing it up that when we watched it, taps rep. would plummet! i mean yes its tv and all, but the whole point that we were making is that evidence is getting pushed that should not be! the only reason you wouldn't show your own evidence is that it doesn't match your findings. Yes there are anonimity issues and stuff like that but if your showing it on tv, the evidence should be fair game. What a good way to get people involved. But, the show would be boring, sci-fi doesn't want that now do they!

D**n right

[chewlip]

Yea but watching the episode is completely different than seeing the actual evidence that you can listen to the original... then we would be able to check up on there evidence. I mean if we formulated the same conclusion that taps did that would make them all the more credible. Unless sci-fi is playing it up that when we watched it, taps rep. would plummet! i mean yes its tv and all, but the whole point that we were making is that evidence is getting pushed that should not be! the only reason you wouldn't show your own evidence is that it doesn't match your findings. Yes there are anonimity issues and stuff like that but if your showing it on tv, the evidence should be fair game. What a good way to get people involved. But, the show would be boring, sci-fi doesn't want that now do they!

Exactly, it is television. I wouldn't be surprised if TAPS signed a contract saying that they would not share their evidence with others, and that it's copyright of Sci Fi, otherwise, any show could use the footage, and as we all know money makes the world go round. Sci Fi would NEVER release footage for FREE. I mean, what if TAPS captured a 100% REAL ghost... the press would be all over it and Sci Fi would make an absolute fortune.

I do understand the fact that people think it's because they have something to hide, which could very well be the case, but, as i've said a million times, it's showbiz, it's about money, not integrity.

[bankai26]

So lets petition the science channel to do a investigation type show and we can be super objective. people watching that channel prob. wouldn't mind not catching anything. build up a good rep. and then if you found something good it might be looked at as credible. I mean youll always have your people that would debunk it no matter what, but that is just the way it is! then i would post all evidence so anyone could listen and formulate there own conclusion. But it would be cool to have a show with nothing to hide!

[Korbus]

I thing GH should do a tag along program! take sceptics or anyone for that matter and bring them on investigations. like a diferent person each time and they are responsable for there own costs. i don't think they would do that! maybee they wouldn't cause they have things to hide?

Good idea! I had thought before about a TAPS Watchdog type group. That'll never happen though. Despite all the people on this board talking about this and the hundreds of thousands of skeptics, there is no real pressure to do such a thing. Their ratings are higher than they've ever been. They're making more money. They're getting more publicity. Why wreck a good thing by taking the chance of someone catching on to them live and in person?

[Korbus]

oh yea, I can remember when they used to show evidence on there web page, but that to has been taken down.

Yes sir. They used to have the evidence on their own web page. But even then, it was just the clip we would see on television anyway. For true analysis, all of their footage should be reviewed by a fair minded skeptical group. Only then can we say what was really going on. Because, as we know, hours upon hours of footage gets cut down to 44 minutes for broadcast.

Oh, and yes, I'm sure Sci-Fi and Pilgrim Films have all rights to said footage. So, forget the open analysis idea. Ain't gonna happen.

[Korbus]

You hit the nail. THAT'S one of the key differences between real research and an entertainment product!

Real scientists put it all out there for peer review. If they have a dataset, they upload it (or should, anyway) to a consortium such as ICPSR so that others can examine the raw data. In physics, there are online prepublication archives. It is all very open. That's scientific research, darn it.

When somebody controls who can and can't see it, and what portions they can and can't see, it's not scientific research!

Gary Schwartz and Ciaran O'Keefe are scientists who are publishing research, and they have another foot solidly in the popular, mass-market media. It can be done. I don't think TAPS is doing it, certainly not through that show.

Awesome. Well said. And thanks for the info on Gary Schwartz and Ciaran O'Keefe. I'm going to look into them further now.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Jason KB

[primordial]

[chewlip]

Most Haunted is still on. Ofcom actually ruled that it was NOT scientific, and was only entertainment. It is proof of nothing, and the show continues to air under that proviso.

As for the video you linked to... i don't recall that... Did they actually include that in the reveal? Or was it jusr viewers who pointed it out? Speaking specifically of that video, It doesn't look like a manequin to me at all, there is not shadow behind it, and comparing it to the other shot comparing it, I don't see a manequin in there :s. However, it doesn't look like a ghost to me either, just the light reflecting off the wall, and if those are glass bottles, they may cause some strange light effects.

[MasterPo]

I doubt they knowingly fake evidence. I've had many conversations with Jason and Grant, not in a groupie/autograph setting. IMO they are sincere in their quest for the paranormal.

But as previously stated Sci-Fi channel and the production company are in command. They know what the audience wants to see. Let's face it: The reality of paranormal investigation is pretty boring. 80% of the time is spent just standing/sitting and waiting. Better than 90% of the time nothing happens. The vast majority of any evidence you collect is found much later on audio or video. That wouldn't make for very interesting weekly shows. The producers must know what they are doing - the show has been on for 5 years.

I did read a comment on another site that events shown are sometimes re-enactments of things experienced on the investigation but not directly caught on film when they happend. Can't confirm that.

[Pythia]

But as previously stated Sci-Fi channel and the production company are in command. They know what the audience wants to see. Let's face it: The reality of paranormal investigation is pretty boring. 80% of the time is spent just standing/sitting and waiting. Better than 90% of the time nothing happens. The vast majority of any evidence you collect is found much later on audio or video. That wouldn't make for very interesting weekly shows. The producers must know what they are doing - the show has been on for 5 years.

I agree. Funny thing, a while back, I was reading a thread here, about how GH didn't find enough evidence and didn't find every place they visited haunted and people were aggravated about it. (Some of the same people who have posted here) Now that they are finding evidence at every turn and every place is haunted, people are still aggravated about it. There's just no pleasing!

I think it's highly possible that Sci-Fi keeps an eye on it's own forum and adjusts to try to appease the masses.

I think they may have made a mistake this time. I love the show and think that Jay and Grant started off in the right direction, I can only hope that they get it back on track and that Sci-Fi gives them the leeway to do so.

[Aanica]

I'm not sure if this topic has come up before. My apologies if it's been played out. However, it is something I'm interested in discussing and hearing opinions on if anyone is willing.

My question is simply this: Is TAPS faking evidence? Or perhaps it isn't TAPS, but Sci Fi and the production team themselves, I don't know. What I do know, however, is that there is something strange going on.

Look at this site here to see a claim that doctored FLIR footage was used on the "Manson Murders" epsiode: http://www.skepticalviewer.com/doctored-manson-flir/

Look at this page to see how it's likely someone (possibly Grant) faked a moving lamp: http://www.skepticalviewer.com/the-incredi...ving-lamp-cord/

Or look here at evident from the Crescent Hotel that more than likely should be have been tossed. You remember the military man, with cap and the number 2 emblazened on him, right? It was Grant!!: http://www.ultimatetechlinks.com/CrescentHotelAnalysis.html

I know the show Ghost Hunters and TAPS have a pretty good reputation and criticizing them can be like hocking a loogie on the Pope, but c'mon. Take a look at this stuff and let us know your thoughts. Is it TAPS faking evidence? Is it Sci Fi's editting only that is arousing suspicion? Is something strange indeed going on here?

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

I am not sure about them faking so much but with all tv shows there has got to be an audiance pleaser, if its faked or enhanced I would bet its done by the studio..you can ask them at this link

http://beyondrealityevents.com/forums/index.php

[Phx]

The only reply I can make to that is....we all seem to understand that just because a place might be haunted doesn't mean anything will happen the night you go to investigate, right? I mean, my team has gone to private homes and had stuff go on one night, then the next time we go nothing happens. And vice versa.

What makes it suspcious to me is why is it that TAPS seems to capture this amazing evidence in their first time everywhere?

This may have been covered but I missed it.

When you go to their live events such as the recent night at the Stanley Hotel, they actually give a seminar about what goes into each of these investigations. Many episodes are the result of several nights of monitoring and investigating. I believe SciFi edits (and overdubs music) poorly, but have a strong amount of faith in the work that the investigative team does. Some of their techniques are difficult to dispute, and now that the show has gotten a strong foothold (and stronger budget) they have been invited out to "more serious" locations including government facilities.

[cpjason]

Yes its like I said people seem to think Jason and Grant run the show, when truth is they dont, they are the one's getting told what to do.

Do you know this for sure? I have heard them speak publically and they said that one of the things they made sure to get straight with Sci Fi before they started the show was that they had creative control. Either they were lying, or you are just guessing. I don't think they fake anything. I also think they discover many of their errors after the shows are taped, but by then it is too late because the episode has already aired.

They are on a site for 3-4 days, and that is all the time they have to consider evidence and make an announcement on what they feel is geniuine and what is not. It would challenge anyone to stay up all night for 2 days, taping and examining the evidence on the 3rd day, try to debunk it, and then present that evidence to the owner of the property. It's easy to sit back and use the brainpower of the millions of people on the Internet who are analyzing these shows for months and months after they air and find the mistakes that TAPS make. If you were them taping a show for a few days, travelling to the next location and doing it all over again I doubt you would do as well as they.

They tape a whole season in large chunks where they go to several sites in a row and then they get some time off. The show makes you believe these guys are sitting around at home being plumbers waiting for that phonecall for a new case. This isn't true at all. They already have the whole season planned before you ever see the first episode. They know where they are going, and they travel for months at a time to get the whole season taped.

They make mistakes, but THEY DO NOT FAKE ANYTHING.

[Regency]

I agree. Funny thing, a while back, I was reading a thread here, about how GH didn't find enough evidence and didn't find every place they visited haunted and people were aggravated about it. (Some of the same people who have posted here) Now that they are finding evidence at every turn and every place is haunted, people are still aggravated about it. There's just no pleasing!

I think it's highly possible that Sci-Fi keeps an eye on it's own forum and adjusts to try to appease the masses.

I think they may have made a mistake this time. I love the show and think that Jay and Grant started off in the right direction, I can only hope that they get it back on track and that Sci-Fi gives them the leeway to do so.

Good post Jennie, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

[eqgumby]

I think maybe another "group" is just being negative about it.

TAPS actually still debunks a lot of their own stuff, plain and simple. What they show as "evidence" is just the stuff they can't explain. If THEY are being fooled, as they were on the Queen Mary, it's hard to fault them.

I honestly do not think that they intentionally fake evidence. As for the plumbing scenes...duh. Of course it's loosely scripted.

Brian was a dip-stick that lied, screwed up, and thought every bump or mote of dust was paranormal. Good riddance.

Why does it seem the Black Swamp guys are on their case?

[bankai26]

If you were reading the whole thread you would have seen that me, swamp, and kb all like ghost hunters. it was just the sudden leap forward in the amount and quality of the evidence. at the beginning they were objective like crazy and now more stuff is going trough. we were not on there cases. i have watched every episode many times and it is definitely different now. true GH lovers would agree i think!

[eqgumby]

If you were reading the whole thread you would have seen that me, swamp, and kb all like ghost hunters. it was just the sudden leap forward in the amount and quality of the evidence. at the beginning they were objective like crazy and now more stuff is going trough. we were not on there cases. i have watched every episode many times and it is definitely different now. true GH lovers would agree i think!

I did take the time to read the whole thread. I just don't see it that way.

I think they do lean towards being objective to this day.

I agree, they may very well be fooled by themselves quite often, like the form in the locker incident. That may be Grant as has been speculated. I just don't think they are intentionally faking evidence as has been implied or asked here in this thread.

[Lady_Boleyn]

Do you know this for sure? I have heard them speak publically and they said that one of the things they made sure to get straight with Sci Fi before they started the show was that they had creative control. Either they were lying, or you are just guessing. I don't think they fake anything. I also think they discover many of their errors after the shows are taped, but by then it is too late because the episode has already aired.

They are on a site for 3-4 days, and that is all the time they have to consider evidence and make an announcement on what they feel is geniuine and what is not. It would challenge anyone to stay up all night for 2 days, taping and examining the evidence on the 3rd day, try to debunk it, and then present that evidence to the owner of the property. It's easy to sit back and use the brainpower of the millions of people on the Internet who are analyzing these shows for months and months after they air and find the mistakes that TAPS make. If you were them taping a show for a few days, travelling to the next location and doing it all over again I doubt you would do as well as they.

They tape a whole season in large chunks where they go to several sites in a row and then they get some time off. The show makes you believe these guys are sitting around at home being plumbers waiting for that phonecall for a new case. This isn't true at all. They already have the whole season planned before you ever see the first episode. They know where they are going, and they travel for months at a time to get the whole season taped.

They make mistakes, but THEY DO NOT FAKE ANYTHING.

I agree. Funny thing, a while back, I was reading a thread here, about how GH didn't find enough evidence and didn't find every place they visited haunted and people were aggravated about it. (Some of the same people who have posted here) Now that they are finding evidence at every turn and every place is haunted, people are still aggravated about it. rofl.gif There's just no pleasing!

I think it's highly possible that Sci-Fi keeps an eye on it's own forum and adjusts to try to appease the masses.

I think they may have made a mistake this time. I love the show and think that Jay and Grant started off in the right direction, I can only hope that they get it back on track and that Sci-Fi gives them the leeway to do so.

Good post Jennie, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

You guys are absolutely right. You just hit the nail on the head.

[Korbus]

I think maybe another "group" is just being negative about it.

TAPS actually still debunks a lot of their own stuff, plain and simple. What they show as "evidence" is just the stuff they can't explain. If THEY are being fooled, as they were on the Queen Mary, it's hard to fault them.

I honestly do not think that they intentionally fake evidence. As for the plumbing scenes...duh. Of course it's loosely scripted.

Brian was a dip-stick that lied, screwed up, and thought every bump or mote of dust was paranormal. Good riddance.

Why does it seem the Black Swamp guys are on their case?

I see you're referring to me here. Let me go over your response here, line by line:

As you would have seen had you truly read and understood my prior posts, I have mentioned how Taps does a good job debunking most things. Ive stated that they do debunk as any paranormal investigative group should. So, yes, all credit to TAPS okay? Calm down.

I never have stated anything about the plumbing scenes. I know it's a "docu-drama." and meant to be entertaining. I also never said Brian shouldn't have been removed from TAPS. I would have kicked him out, too. If you're going to throw that stuff in there, at least have the decency to quote and reply to those specific people who did mention the plumbing scenes or Brian. You've made it look here like it was me who mentioned these things when I did not. Please, a little courtesy, okay?

Actually, your entire post is filled with stuff that doesn't much relate to the things I've said. I mean, you even take exception with me saying they've faked evidence...and I don't believe I've said that either. Look back at the posts I've made. I've included it as a possibility, but I also said it's likely it is Sci Fi and/or the production company tampering or editing scenes poorly.

I HAVE, however, said that TAPS is not being as analytical as they should be in debunking or throwing out evidence. And I DID say that the number of inconsistencies in their evidence and the allegations of tampering deserve a response; if not from TAPS, then from Sci-Fi. When Jason Hawes says on Beyond Reality Radio that "Sci Fi sees what Sci Fi wants you to see," that isn't a response. In fact, it's almost an admission that what we are seeing isn't real. All I'm asking for is the issue to be cleared up.

See, you are forgetting that I am a fan of the show. I've been watching for years. I'll continue to watch. I'll continue to listen to Beyond Reality Radio. I think TAPS does great work in the field of paranormal research and investigation. HOWEVER, if they don't nip these allegations and suspicions in the bud soon, it's only going to continue to mount. And they'll just end up as another show, like Paranormal State and Most Haunted, that is pointed and laughed at by the hard-line skeptics of the world who are denying the paranormal exists.

Why you are calling me or my team out is beyond me. Because we've committed the sin of questioning TAPS? Oh my! If that's all we've done wrong, then I'd ask why you are defending them so passionately. You see, Eggumby, this is a forum. People are here to exchange ideas and maybe even engage in a lively debate. If you can't handle that, don't respond. I have no problem with your difference in opinion, I just wish you would more accurately respond to MY argument if you're going to try and call me out again.

Thank you for your time. Many blessings to you and yours.

[Korbus]

You guys are absolutely right. You just hit the nail on the head.

I think they went for the nail, but hit their own thumbs.

I'll agree Taps has made mistakes. We all do. We're human. But my argument is that they're making repeated analytical mistakes that people with over 15 years experience shouldn't make. There are people posting the same argument in this forum that don't have 1/3rd of the experience Jay and Grant do, yet they are being more analytical. Wouldn't you agree there's something wrong with that?

If they have 3-4 days on site, that's still 2 or 3 days more than the groups without the benefit of a television audience and large crew have. If anything, it gives them MORE time to be analytical and find reasonable doubt in their audio and video footage.

As far as this "damned if they do, damned if they don't" stuff by those you quoted...I think that's just being lazy. I know we all want to believe nothing strange is going on. Some of us, it seems, want to believe more strongly than others. So strongly, in fact, that it is clouding their sense of reason. Look, I wish there wasn't anything strange going on either. But if you remain open minded to the possibility, then look at the amount of inconsistencies which are piling up, you may start to see it too.

Thank you for your time and attention.

[SJB]

This is my point, the first couple season they maybe claimed 2 to 3 places haunted. Now every episode the places are haunted, with minimal evidence. Jason went from having to see a ghost to claim something haunted to claiming a haunting from nothing more then a below standard EVP. Something isn’t right, I don’t blame TAPS I think it’s the network.

I agree with you that the network is behind it.

[Drayno]

I didn't feel like reading a couple of pages, so here is my simple reply.

No duh? It is a TELEVISION show. Entertainment purposes only, and sometimes prone to cheesy catch phrases. Even if it was "Reality Television"...it would not be suitable to be called that. As there is a camera, the way they act would change drastically as they would wish to present themselves in a more "fashionable" manner. The evidence is fake, as the show is. Saying it is not set up would be like saying "The Hills" is as true as George W. Bush being moderately intelligent. It would be factual yes...to a degree. That is only because that the events that took place, did, in fact...take place, regardless of being set up or not. TAPS may have been a real Investigating team...but when you get your own TV show....say goodbye to plausible probability that the evidence is genuine.

[Pythia]

As far as this "damned if they do, damned if they don't" stuff by those you quoted...I think that's just being lazy. I know we all want to believe nothing strange is going on. Some of us, it seems, want to believe more strongly than others. So strongly, in fact, that it is clouding their sense of reason. Look, I wish there wasn't anything strange going on either. But if you remain open minded to the possibility, then look at the amount of inconsistencies which are piling up, you may start to see it too.

Thank you for your time and attention.

I've heard all about the inconsistencies on the TAPS forum. I don't find it all that strange, but that's probably because my life doesn't hinge on what GH finds. It's a television show and a very interesting one.

I was only pointing out that people are never satisfied with......nevermind, I'm too lazy to type it. See you were right!

[Korbus]

I've heard all about the inconsistencies on the TAPS forum. I don't find it all that strange, but that's probably because my life doesn't hinge on what GH finds. It's a television show and a very interesting one.

I was only pointing out that people are never satisfied with......nevermind, I'm too lazy to type it. See you were right!

Over 1600 posts on this board and that's what you were too lazy to type? Seriously, I would be interested in your point. I won't even infer you have no life if you respond, okay?