Does TAPS Fake Their Evidence?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I don't think they deliberately fake anything. They have built their reputation on DEBUNKING hauntings primarily, and have almost singlehandedly caused a paradigm shift in paranormal research. All the orb chasers look like a bunch of idiots now because of them. I think the evps they catch are the most convincing of the phenomena they capture. I always perk up when they say they got something on audio. If anything, they probably misinterpret a few things, which is natural....not purposefully fake things. They probably film all their investigations, and for ratings sake, typically choose to air the ones that have some kind of evidence, along with a few that don't to mix it up.

[eqgumby]

I see you're referring to me here. Let me go over your response here, line by line:

As you would have seen had you truly read and understood my prior posts, I have mentioned how Taps does a good job debunking most things. Ive stated that they do debunk as any paranormal investigative group should. So, yes, all credit to TAPS okay? Calm down.

I never have stated anything about the plumbing scenes. I know it's a "docu-drama." and meant to be entertaining. I also never said Brian shouldn't have been removed from TAPS. I would have kicked him out, too. If you're going to throw that stuff in there, at least have the decency to quote and reply to those specific people who did mention the plumbing scenes or Brian. You've made it look here like it was me who mentioned these things when I did not. Please, a little courtesy, okay?

Actually, your entire post is filled with stuff that doesn't much relate to the things I've said. I mean, you even take exception with me saying they've faked evidence...and I don't believe I've said that either. Look back at the posts I've made. I've included it as a possibility, but I also said it's likely it is Sci Fi and/or the production company tampering or editing scenes poorly.

I HAVE, however, said that TAPS is not being as analytical as they should be in debunking or throwing out evidence. And I DID say that the number of inconsistencies in their evidence and the allegations of tampering deserve a response; if not from TAPS, then from Sci-Fi. When Jason Hawes says on Beyond Reality Radio that "Sci Fi sees what Sci Fi wants you to see," that isn't a response. In fact, it's almost an admission that what we are seeing isn't real. All I'm asking for is the issue to be cleared up.

See, you are forgetting that I am a fan of the show. I've been watching for years. I'll continue to watch. I'll continue to listen to Beyond Reality Radio. I think TAPS does great work in the field of paranormal research and investigation. HOWEVER, if they don't nip these allegations and suspicions in the bud soon, it's only going to continue to mount. And they'll just end up as another show, like Paranormal State and Most Haunted, that is pointed and laughed at by the hard-line skeptics of the world who are denying the paranormal exists.

Why you are calling me or my team out is beyond me. Because we've committed the sin of questioning TAPS? Oh my! If that's all we've done wrong, then I'd ask why you are defending them so passionately. You see, Eggumby, this is a forum. People are here to exchange ideas and maybe even engage in a lively debate. If you can't handle that, don't respond. I have no problem with your difference in opinion, I just wish you would more accurately respond to MY argument if you're going to try and call me out again.

Thank you for your time. Many blessings to you and yours.

Actually, I wasn't calling you out, and my comments were not directed at or explicitly in reference to you or your posts.

Please refrain from baiting or flaming in the future. I don't think it's necessary. IF I was replying directly to you, it would go like this:

As you would have seen had you truly read and understood my prior posts, I have mentioned how Taps does a good job debunking most things. Ive stated that they do debunk as any paranormal investigative group should. So, yes, all credit to TAPS okay? Calm down.

I did read all the posts, and I am calm, thanks.

I never have stated anything about the plumbing scenes. I know it's a "docu-drama." and meant to be entertaining. I also never said Brian shouldn't have been removed from TAPS. I would have kicked him out, too. If you're going to throw that stuff in there, at least have the decency to quote and reply to those specific people who did mention the plumbing scenes or Brian. You've made it look here like it was me who mentioned these things when I did not. Please, a little courtesy, okay?

I wasn't referring to you talking about plumbing scenes. I never claimed you said anything about Brian. I didn't make it look like anything, I just didn't cut and paste specific replies to specific people. That's why I never used names or misquoted anyone. It was a reply to the thread in general. Hence, the absence of quotes.

I HAVE, however, said that TAPS is not being as analytical as they should be in debunking or throwing out evidence. And I DID say that the number of inconsistencies in their evidence and the allegations of tampering deserve a response; if not from TAPS, then from Sci-Fi. When Jason Hawes says on Beyond Reality Radio that "Sci Fi sees what Sci Fi wants you to see," that isn't a response. In fact, it's almost an admission that what we are seeing isn't real. All I'm asking for is the issue to be cleared up.

See, you are forgetting that I am a fan of the show. I've been watching for years. I'll continue to watch. I'll continue to listen to Beyond Reality Radio. I think TAPS does great work in the field of paranormal research and investigation. HOWEVER, if they don't nip these allegations and suspicions in the bud soon, it's only going to continue to mount. And they'll just end up as another show, like Paranormal State and Most Haunted, that is pointed and laughed at by the hard-line skeptics of the world who are denying the paranormal exists.

I agree, I think he should clear it up too. I would hate to see GH wind up pure trash TV too, like the other shows you mentioned.

Why you are calling me or my team out is beyond me. Because we've committed the sin of questioning TAPS? Oh my! If that's all we've done wrong, then I'd ask why you are defending them so passionately. You see, Eggumby, this is a forum. People are here to exchange ideas and maybe even engage in a lively debate. If you can't handle that, don't respond. I have no problem with your difference in opinion, I just wish you would more accurately respond to MY argument if you're going to try and call me out again.

Again, I wasn't calling you or your team out. I just see two members of your team (that I know of) kind of drumming up some negativity.

I really didn't feel all that passionate.Maybe you saw exclamation marks where there were none.

You see Jason, this is a forum. I was exchanging ideas (and opinions) that are clearly my own. That's why I said:

I think they do lean towards being objective to this day.

I agree, they may very well be fooled by themselves quite often, like the form in the locker incident. That may be Grant as has been speculated. I just don't think they are intentionally faking evidence as has been implied or asked here in this thread.

Is all this a little more accurate?

Thank you for your time. Many blessings to you and yours.

Back atcha!

[Korbus]

Actually, I wasn't calling you out, and my comments were not directed at or explicitly in reference to you or your posts.

Please refrain from baiting or flaming in the future. I don't think it's necessary. IF I was replying directly to you, it would go like this:

I did read all the posts, and I am calm, thanks.

I wasn't referring to you talking about plumbing scenes. I never claimed you said anything about Brian. I didn't make it look like anything, I just didn't cut and paste specific replies to specific people. That's why I never used names or misquoted anyone. It was a reply to the thread in general. Hence, the absence of quotes.

I agree, I think he should clear it up too. I would hate to see GH wind up pure trash TV too, like the other shows you mentioned.

Again, I wasn't calling you or your team out. I just see two members of your team (that I know of) kind of drumming up some negativity.

I really didn't feel all that passionate.Maybe you saw exclamation marks where there were none.

You see Jason, this is a forum. I was exchanging ideas (and opinions) that are clearly my own. That's why I said:

Is all this a little more accurate?

Back atcha!

If you weren't calling me or my team out, why did you use words and phrases something like "groups here are being negative" and "Black Swamp guys" ?? What other conclusion could reasonably drawn from that? That's baiting, friend. I was just responding to you, remember.

And if you say you agree that TAPS and Sci Fi should clear it all up too, then what negativity are you complaining about? This is the exact argument I was making. How am I drumming up negativity when you agree with the very things I keep saying? Makes no sense...

And honestly, I don't think exclamation points = passion. I'm being passionate right now and throughout this thread. I don't need anything other than my words alone to express myself, usually. Heck, you have a quote from MLK on your profile here. Wouldn't you agree he was a pretty passionate orator? I don't believe he needed exclamation points in his speeches, or needed to scream to get his point across, do you? Passion isn't a bad thing, but it can certainly be expressed in ways outside of punctuation.

Anyway, I've said my piece. You've said yours, I guess. So yes, I accept your apology/explanation...I just don't think it completely makes sense or is entirely forthright. There is no ill will towards you. Peace be with you, brother.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Jason KB

[Korbus]

Oh, and I dont want to litter the board with any more of this stuff if possible. If you, Eqgumby, or anyone else wants a personal reply or to discuss something more directly, please feel free to PM me. You'll find me quite friendly and open to that form of communication as well.

Thank you, friends!

[NoahJaymes]

This stuff is making my eyes bleed lol...I typed something out but it is no longer relevant

[Korbus]

This stuff is making my eyes bleed lol...I typed something out but it is no longer relevant

Haha yeah, but I kinda enjoy it at the same time. I wanted to make a thread that would get people talking and get an exchange of ideas going.

[eqgumby]

If you weren't calling me or my team out, why did you use words and phrases something like "groups here are being negative" and "Black Swamp guys" ?? What other conclusion could reasonably drawn from that? That's baiting, friend. I was just responding to you, remember.

And if you say you agree that TAPS and Sci Fi should clear it all up too, then what negativity are you complaining about? This is the exact argument I was making. How am I drumming up negativity when you agree with the very things I keep saying? Makes no sense...

And honestly, I don't think exclamation points = passion. I'm being passionate right now and throughout this thread. I don't need anything other than my words alone to express myself, usually. Heck, you have a quote from MLK on your profile here. Wouldn't you agree he was a pretty passionate orator? I don't believe he needed exclamation points in his speeches, or needed to scream to get his point across, do you? Passion isn't a bad thing, but it can certainly be expressed in ways outside of punctuation.

Anyway, I've said my piece. You've said yours, I guess. So yes, I accept your apology/explanation...I just don't think it completely makes sense or is entirely forthright. There is no ill will towards you. Peace be with you, brother.

Because it seemed to me that you and another of your team members were being negative. That's why. Below are all quotes from you guys, not even all of them, but a sampling of two people from the same organization bashing another organization. Calling them liars, out-right frauds and fakes, questioning their integrity and motivations.

And when I question your motivations, you start on ME about my quote, and claim I make no sense.

Sorry, I saw you and your partners attack on the TAPS guys as negativity. And while agree that they and the show they are in are not perfect, I think it takes a lot of gall to claim they are frauds and lying about evidence outright.

What motivates YOU to call them out?

What I do know, however, is that there is something strange going on.

I think you are both right. They don't try hard enough to throw stuff out. Let's face it...ratings are higher when every place they go is "haunted," right?

What makes it suspcious to me is why is it that TAPS seems to capture this amazing evidence in their first time everywhere?

All I'm truly saying is that SOMETHING awful damn suspicious is going on, and it deserves a direct response from TAPS or Sci Fi.

And they said basically, "Okay, what can we do to get ratings higher?" The answer...less objectivity in evidence.

THe Crescent Hill apparition alone is a farce. If I would have captured that, the second I seen the #2 on the locker I would have wanted to throw it out. I mean, cmon....are they not thinking rationally?

And I want to believe in it so bad. But then I think about all the other stuff and I wonder, "Well, hey, I dont know...did someone add that voice in later?

Oh, and by the way....where the heck are all the angry loudmouths I was hoping to see show up on this thread defending everything TAPS does?

I believe the stuff is faked, I have heard with my own ears Jason say "Sci-Fi lets you see what sci-fi wants you to see" that is from the mouth of the founder/lead investigator. That tells me one thing, the network is faking stuff.

I find it very convenient they are there the day something paranormal happens. Hauntings don't work when you want them to, but they seem to work when TAPS wants them to.

Now every episode the places are haunted, with minimal evidence. Jason went from having to see a ghost to claim something haunted to claiming a haunting from nothing more then a below standard EVP. Something isn’t right, I don’t blame TAPS I think it’s the network.

Well, prepare to be devastated.

Yes its like I said people seem to think Jason and Grant run the show, when truth is they dont, ...

As far as their reactions being genuine, let me just say this: "Take 2." Ya know what I mean?

Something strange is going on. If you aren't seeing it, it's because you're trying too hard not to.

They're either purposely passing off bad evidence as legitimate, or they are being completely irresponsible.

Because of the Sci Fi network, they don’t care about authentic evidence they care about money and ratings.

[Moon Demon]

yes it is all staged , along with a script mixed with some ad lib

not to mention some really bad acting

Edited May 23, 2008 by Moon Demon

[Korbus]

Because it seemed to me that you and another of your team members were being negative. That's why. Below are all quotes from you guys, not even all of them, but a sampling of two people from the same organization bashing another organization. Calling them liars, out-right frauds and fakes, questioning their integrity and motivations.

And when I question your motivations, you start on ME about my quote, and claim I make no sense.

Sorry, I saw you and your partners attack on the TAPS guys as negativity. And while agree that they and the show they are in are not perfect, I think it takes a lot of gall to claim they are frauds and lying about evidence outright.

What motivates YOU to call them out?

Well, like I've said over and over and over throughout this thread...something weird is going on. I haven't flat out accused TAPS of being anything other than less analytical than is desirable for a team with over 15 years experience. I have the right to say that not as a person who investigates the paranormal, but as a fan of their show. I don't want to see it become like Paranormal State or Most Haunted because I respect TAPS way more than that. You yourself have said you also would like to see them respond to the inconsistencies. If you feel I'm rude by writing something on a message board which is based in fact, then I'm sorry.

I don't believe I have personally said TAPS themselves have faked anything. You keep making that accusation. You found a lot of quotes out of context, but I'm not seeing the one where I said TAPS fakes their evidence. I've said certain pieces of evidence were suspicious. More than likely, Pilgrim Films and Sci Fi would be responsible if evidence was indeed being faked. Which, again, I have not stated it is. But read over those quotes you found, you'll see I have not stated it is TAPS themselves, but likely the network or a contracted production company. That should be the end of your accusation that I am saying TAPS are fakers.

I know you keep saying you have read all my posts. I honestly just don't know if you understood them all. I can go ahead and take the blame for that, if you'd like. Maybe I wasn't clear enough or something, though I honestly felt I've been very clear. But you keep acting like I attacked you out of nowhere. Remember a few posts ago when you tried to tell me you never called me or my team out? That your post had nothing to do with me or my team? Now you basically admit to doing just that. Remember, I responded to YOU originally when YOU called me out.. It's not the other way around as much as you keep trying to make it sound like it is.

I'll say one other thing again...hopefully for the last time: I really and truly don't want to litter this thread anymore with back and forth stuff between you and I. That's why earlier today I posted on here that if you or anyone else wanted to discuss things personally and more directly, to simply PM me. I am very open to talking with you or anyone else through PM. Feel free to send me a message anytime. I'd be happy to hear from you. Other than you and I, this thread is slowly fading away. If interest in the topic isn't there anymore, I don't want to keep it around artificially by just responding to you or vice versa.

But anyway, you asked me what motivates me to call them out. I said it earlier: I'm a fan. I don't want the show, or TAPS' good name, to be degraded anymore. But for that to happen, they have to respond to the growing number of people who are beginning to question either them or the network. If they do not sometime soon, suspicion will remain. And that will be a true shame. Because a lot of people, myself included, still believe in them.

Again, thanks for your time and consideration. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss this further.

[The Paranormal Skeptic]

Sorry, I saw you and your partners attack on the TAPS guys as negativity. And while agree that they and the show they are in are not perfect, I think it takes a lot of gall to claim they are frauds and lying about evidence outright.

What motivates YOU to call them out?

So what you are trying to say is that if a friend and I see something wrong with the show and agree upon it, we can't say something about it? First of all this has nothing to do with our group, and to be perfectly fair there have been a couple posts way more rude than mine or Jason’s that I don’t even know, but you don’t feel the need to call them out by name. I don’t think I have been negative at all, I believe I have stated legitimate claims upon another ghost hunting group. Is that not allowed, what is it like Blasphemy to call out something I see wrong? Yet for the record once again for the 100th time I never said TAPS is faking anything I have said I believe it is the network, how much more clear can I get.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Black_Swamp_Paranormal

[chewlip]

So what you are trying to say is that if a friend and I see something wrong with the show and agree upon it, we can't say something about it? First of all this has nothing to do with our group, and to be perfectly fair there have been a couple posts way more rude than mine or Jason’s that I don’t even know, but you don’t feel the need to call them out by name. I don’t think I have been negative at all, I believe I have stated legitimate claims upon another ghost hunting group. Is that not allowed, what is it like Blasphemy to call out something I see wrong? Yet for the record once again for the 100th time I never said TAPS is faking anything I have said I believe it is the network, how much more clear can I get.

Wait, why are you guys arguing?

I think most people agree some of the evidence on Ghost Hunters is dubious.

And about 90% of people seem to think it's not directly TAPS' fault, rather the production company and Sci Fi.

What you are arguing now seems a bit more personal, and it's probably best kept private.

Less of the bickering.

[The Paranormal Skeptic]

Wait, why are you guys arguing?

I think most people agree some of the evidence on Ghost Hunters is dubious.

And about 90% of people seem to think it's not directly TAPS' fault, rather the production company and Sci Fi.

What you are arguing now seems a bit more personal, and it's probably best kept private.

Less of the bickering.

you are right, so from now on if you want to continue to argue this point PM me.

[Hamlyn]

Here is the problem with TAPS and Ghost Hunters.

They say they are scientifically doing science. They aren't.

J and Grant are not trained as scientists. I don't see any trained scientists on camera. So it's no surprise that TAPS's methods, procedures, and reasoning do not resemble those used in science.

If they were laypersons who were actually doing science, then they could say, "this is science." Their utter lack of credentials would open them to criticism, and their lack of training would make them error-prone. But at least they would be doing science.

They aren't. They are just ghost-hunting. Which is fine. Just don't tell people it's science.

The problem with an absence of scientific protocols is that it opens the way for all kinds of deception. It can take the form of observer bias, halo effect, sampling error, outright fraud, and more.

J and Grant might be the most honest guys on the planet, and they can and will still fool themselves. That is why scientific protocols exist.

And even if they are honest guys, how are we supposed to know that? Are we supposed to just believe them?

So their unscientific approach opens them to all kinds of criticism. Even impeccably-credentialed scientists who abide by exacting protocols have to deal with such criticism. But because of TAPS's methods, TAPS has no defense.

If they want to say, here are the adventures we have while hunting ghosts, then that's fine. But they call it science, and it isn't. They've doomed themselves.

I want to take them aside and say, look, you want plumbing done, you hire a plumber. You want science done, you hire a scientist. So hire a scientist and let him do the science. Otherwise, what we have here is an epic fail.

[LadyHay]

Here is the problem with TAPS and Ghost Hunters.

They say they are scientifically doing science. They aren't.

J and Grant are not trained as scientists. I don't see any trained scientists on camera. So it's no surprise that TAPS's methods, procedures, and reasoning do not resemble those used in science.

If they were laypersons who were actually doing science, then they could say, "this is science." Their utter lack of credentials would open them to criticism, and their lack of training would make them error-prone. But at least they would be doing science.

They aren't. They are just ghost-hunting. Which is fine. Just don't tell people it's science.

The problem with an absence of scientific protocols is that it opens the way for all kinds of deception. It can take the form of observer bias, halo effect, sampling error, outright fraud, and more.

J and Grant might be the most honest guys on the planet, and they can and will still fool themselves. That is why scientific protocols exist.

And even if they are honest guys, how are we supposed to know that? Are we supposed to just believe them?

So their unscientific approach opens them to all kinds of criticism. Even impeccably-credentialed scientists who abide by exacting protocols have to deal with such criticism. But because of TAPS's methods, TAPS has no defense.

If they want to say, here are the adventures we have while hunting ghosts, then that's fine. But they call it science, and it isn't. They've doomed themselves.

I want to take them aside and say, look, you want plumbing done, you hire a plumber. You want science done, you hire a scientist. So hire a scientist and let him do the science. Otherwise, what we have here is an epic fail.

Best post on this thread, IMO. Agreed 100%.

[eqgumby]

Sorry guys, but what has been implied is that TAPS are liars and in it for the buck. Do I really need to dig again for quotes?

Sorry I dared to question a budding paranormal groups motivation in attacking the most famous group out there.

I won't defend myself, as I have done NOTHING other than ask a few questions of the ATTACKER. YOU called out TAPS essentially, and I asked why.

Oh, and by the way....where the heck are all the angry loudmouths I was hoping to see show up on this thread defending everything TAPS does?

THIS quote clearly shows what you were HOPING to get.

I believe the stuff is faked, I have heard with my own ears Jason say "Sci-Fi lets you see what sci-fi wants you to see" that is from the mouth of the founder/lead investigator. That tells me one thing, the network is faking stuff.

THIS clearly shows you think at least some of their evidence is fraudulent.

Because of the Sci Fi network, they don’t care about authentic evidence they care about money and ratings.

THIS clearly shows you believe they are complicit and aware of the fraud.

When I ask why you believe this all I get is, "Come on...it's obvious" type responses. Stop attacking ME for questioning your opinion and motivations.

[Wootloops]

Here is the problem with TAPS and Ghost Hunters.

They say they are scientifically doing science. They aren't.

J and Grant are not trained as scientists. I don't see any trained scientists on camera. So it's no surprise that TAPS's methods, procedures, and reasoning do not resemble those used in science.

If they were laypersons who were actually doing science, then they could say, "this is science." Their utter lack of credentials would open them to criticism, and their lack of training would make them error-prone. But at least they would be doing science.

They aren't. They are just ghost-hunting. Which is fine. Just don't tell people it's science.

The problem with an absence of scientific protocols is that it opens the way for all kinds of deception. It can take the form of observer bias, halo effect, sampling error, outright fraud, and more.

J and Grant might be the most honest guys on the planet, and they can and will still fool themselves. That is why scientific protocols exist.

And even if they are honest guys, how are we supposed to know that? Are we supposed to just believe them?

So their unscientific approach opens them to all kinds of criticism. Even impeccably-credentialed scientists who abide by exacting protocols have to deal with such criticism. But because of TAPS's methods, TAPS has no defense.

If they want to say, here are the adventures we have while hunting ghosts, then that's fine. But they call it science, and it isn't. They've doomed themselves.

I want to take them aside and say, look, you want plumbing done, you hire a plumber. You want science done, you hire a scientist. So hire a scientist and let him do the science. Otherwise, what we have here is an epic fail.

I don't think they've ever claimed to be scientists or to be doing science. What they do say is that they try and be scientific about their investigations. They try and be rational.

[LadyHay]

Why shouldn't the credibility of TAPS and shows like it be questioned? We (here on UM and anywhere in the field) often perform "peer review" of other groups within the study. Keeps us honest and we hold discussions to learn.

Check this out. Thwarting the Study by Withholding the Evidence...http://seminars.torontoghosts.org/blog/index.php?cat=19

Any group who decides to go into the spotlight is subject to peer review. Just the way it is. I applaud Jason and BSP for having the guts to attempt this, at the risk of offending those who perhaps revere TAPS. It is well known that the media loves to sex this type of stuff up. Why would TAPS be any different?

Why would anyone take it personally that Jason and BSP call into question TAPS (actually Ghost Hunters) and also the production company.

Edited May 23, 2008 by LadyHay

[bankai26]

thank you.... thats what i am saying... i know this thread is long but some of these sentences are being taken out of context also. there was a lot of serious disscusion about this....we like taps. were just not comfortable with the evidence recently! it seems like ratings go up so does evidence.. we were saying it to be sci-fi letting it through or forcing it through for ratings..... lets like flip this and yall tell me what evidence that taps has found that without a question is beleived to be fact... i mean there was some interesting evidence. but without being able to look at the evidence it is not fact to me. then i think its still interpretation!

Edited May 23, 2008 by bankai26

[Emily Luke]

TAPS tries their very harest to go into their investigation with a skeptic mind and disprove the things they find. So to think they fake their evidence is just a silly thought. There's absolutely no reason for them to fake there evidence. besides I have seen times when they have found where people have messed with their evidence and TAPS caught it. If they were faking their evidence y would they bother to show that someone faked it if they were gonna fake it anyways.

[LadyHay]

TAPS tries their very harest to go into their investigation with a skeptic mind and disprove the things they find. So to think they fake their evidence is just a silly thought. There's absolutely no reason for them to fake there evidence. besides I have seen times when they have found where people have messed with their evidence and TAPS caught it. If they were faking their evidence y would they bother to show that someone faked it if they were gonna fake it anyways.

Its not a silly thought. The pressure is on for these guys to supply evidence (this is a good reason!). If not faking, embellishing. Maybe more of you would be more comfortable with that word. Anyway, my point is, if these guys don't produce, their job is on the line. isn't that reason?

You said that people have messed with their evidence. WOW. What kind of a team do they have that people have done this. Furthermore, how do we know this wasn't planted to ensure that Grant and Jason look good? Honestly, if you believe everything you watch on TV...

[Ignus Fatuus]

So many people say it's not science. Yes, you cannot measure the things that they are investigating, yet anecdotal notes and records is scientific ... so can it be science??

I am sitting on one of the largest gravesites (at least in this small area) and one of the oldest pratically in the world. This whole area is basically "bewitched" and "paranormal" I really wish TAPS would come down here and debunk these things ... People here would laugh them off of the planet.

[The Paranormal Skeptic]

I mean look people who think they are so honest, they fabricate the stupid plumbing story. I don’t care to hear “that’s just a little white lie,” if they lie about that why couldn’t they lie, exaggerate or fabricate evidence? People seem to forget that this is television, it is not reality.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Black_Swamp_Paranormal

[JustNormal]

I mean look people who think they are so honest, they fabricate the stupid plumbing story. I don’t care to hear “that’s just a little white lie,” if they lie about that why couldn’t they lie, exaggerate or fabricate evidence? People seem to forget that this is television, it is not reality.

I agree BWP..Another thing I question. My son worked for Roto Rooter for 2 years, as a plumbers apprentice NOT a plumber, even though he had years of training.The only areas he had to have a licensed plumber along is if had to do with gas issues. Other than that he was on his own. They dont get paid weekly, they get paid by the job. Basically they can repair fixtures, snake out a line, repair broken pipes located anywhere,also hot water heaters etc. Rotor Rooter does not install new bathrooms or kitchen,or mess with gas. Last I knew, they would hire plumbers, but the payments are depending on the job. I wonder if they ARE licensed plumbers, because they dont make that much money. I would think if they were licensed, they would either start their own company, or work for a credible Commercial and residential Plumbing and Heating company. JN

[Korbus]

Sorry guys, but what has been implied is that TAPS are liars and in it for the buck. Do I really need to dig again for quotes?

Sorry I dared to question a budding paranormal groups motivation in attacking the most famous group out there.

I won't defend myself, as I have done NOTHING other than ask a few questions of the ATTACKER. YOU called out TAPS essentially, and I asked why.

THIS quote clearly shows what you were HOPING to get.

THIS clearly shows you think at least some of their evidence is fraudulent.

THIS clearly shows you believe they are complicit and aware of the fraud.

When I ask why you believe this all I get is, "Come on...it's obvious" type responses. Stop attacking ME for questioning your opinion and motivations.

I feel like replying to all this stuff publicly again, because I would once again dismantle your arguments. But I'm not going to. I've already responded several times to these same accusations. Ive asked you to help me in not littering the board with bickering by PM'ing me. You are obviously not going to do that since you've ignored that request twice now. I'm going to PM you instead.

Sorry everybody for the continuous back and forth stuff. I hope you'll still participate and enjoy the thread without all the nonsense.

[Shakezulah]

I mean look people who think they are so honest, they fabricate the stupid plumbing story. I don’t care to hear “that’s just a little white lie,” if they lie about that why couldn’t they lie, exaggerate or fabricate evidence? People seem to forget that this is television, it is not reality.

Re-creating the plumbing sequences and creating or faking evidence are not even in the same league with eachother. I think pretty much everyone knows that they aren't plumbers anymore. Those scenes are pretty obviously being acted out (and quite poorly, I might add). They just use those scenes to carry the show along. They aren't trying to fool anyone. Using that as an excuse to say they are faking their evidence is just plain stupid. Come on, now. Just because it's on TV doesn not automatically make it 100% fake. I have no doubt that Sci-Fi may stretch out the reality of certain things they come across, but I have no reason to believe that TAPS would ever purposely decieve their audience or their clients.