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Korbus

Does TAPS Fake Their Evidence?

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Wootloops

Before the end of this season, everybody loved TAPS, but as we can see now basically everyone has garnered some suspicion towards them.

Edited by Wootloops

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Korbus
Perfect picture, this clip of Grant was taken in the morgue, where they saw the "soldier with the hat" was caught. The similarities are to close to be considered evidence of the paranormal in my eyes. But hey that’s just my opinion.

YES! EXACTLY!

See, I remember they went back to the area they captured that piece of footage and tried to recreate it. They couldn't get it exactly right. But c'mon, just because something can't be perfectly recreated doesn't mean it's paranormal.

A possibly humorous example: Think of one of those squeaky padded chairs that when you sit down or get up, it sounds like you farted. Everyone looks at you and laughs thinking you cut the cheese. You swear you didn't and then try to recreate the noise by continuously sitting down and standing up. Well, it never seems to sound exactly the same. But I swear I didn't really fart. I mean, ya know...hypothetically speaking, heh heh heh.

But you see what I mean, I hope. Just because you can't recreate something doesn't mean it was paranormal, ya know? But TAPS should have approached that a little more skeptically and threw that out. There's really no excuse for it being considered evidence of an apparition.

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JustNormal
I'm not sure if this topic has come up before. My apologies if it's been played out. However, it is something I'm interested in discussing and hearing opinions on if anyone is willing.

My question is simply this: Is TAPS faking evidence? Or perhaps it isn't TAPS, but Sci Fi and the production team themselves, I don't know. What I do know, however, is that there is something strange going on.

Look at this site here to see a claim that doctored FLIR footage was used on the "Manson Murders" epsiode: http://www.skepticalviewer.com/doctored-manson-flir/

Look at this page to see how it's likely someone (possibly Grant) faked a moving lamp: http://www.skepticalviewer.com/the-incredi...ving-lamp-cord/

Or look here at evident from the Crescent Hotel that more than likely should be have been tossed. You remember the military man, with cap and the number 2 emblazened on him, right? It was Grant!!: http://www.ultimatetechlinks.com/CrescentHotelAnalysis.html

I know the show Ghost Hunters and TAPS have a pretty good reputation and criticizing them can be like hocking a loogie on the Pope, but c'mon. Take a look at this stuff and let us know your thoughts. Is it TAPS faking evidence? Is it Sci Fi's editting only that is arousing suspicion? Is something strange indeed going on here?

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

WOW Thanks for the information. I watch TAPS every week and enjoy it. However, when they started out they went week after week and couldnt even get a picture or EVP as evidence. It started to become boring. Then all the sudden they began to find evidence, and GHI was born. The one thing I have noticed, is many on here put Grant and Jay on a pedistal, and can do no wrong, and tend to believe everything they say as if God said it himself. Truth of the matter is, IMO is they are a couple of plumbers who decided to ghost hunt, and somehow got their own show, just like numerous reality shows. The thing I always remember is its TV and totally unaware of what happens behind the scenes, and that goes for every show, not just TAPS..This doesnt surprise me, anymore than PRS, or Most Haunted. The way I see it, its all about ratings, and seems most will go to any extreme to remain on the air. Its a shame they have to resort to that, but thats show biz..JMO...JN

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Sho_Sho
YES! EXACTLY!

See, I remember they went back to the area they captured that piece of footage and tried to recreate it. They couldn't get it exactly right. But c'mon, just because something can't be perfectly recreated doesn't mean it's paranormal.

A possibly humorous example: Think of one of those squeaky padded chairs that when you sit down or get up, it sounds like you farted. Everyone looks at you and laughs thinking you cut the cheese. You swear you didn't and then try to recreate the noise by continuously sitting down and standing up. Well, it never seems to sound exactly the same. But I swear I didn't really fart. I mean, ya know...hypothetically speaking, heh heh heh.

But you see what I mean, I hope. Just because you can't recreate something doesn't mean it was paranormal, ya know? But TAPS should have approached that a little more skeptically and threw that out. There's really no excuse for it being considered evidence of an apparition.

I have been noticing that they have been really giving that one guy (don’t know his name) a really hard time lately, he can’t seem to do anything right. They even went back to a location to spend another 2 nights to make sure no one "faked" evidence, did they do that to get everyone off the trail of thinking they are producing their own "haunting evidence”?

I just found it odd, how all of the sudden they are not trusting their own footage or evidence, and if they did before, they never let it be known to the audience until now? It was almost like they were hinting around that someone on the team faked it? and they had to go back for the Integrity of the team to make sure thats what they saw. It seemed a bit of a stretch to me.

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LIGhostChick

I think TAPS has to show whatever evidence Sci-Fi wants them to for ratings. Even if it something that may not be paranormal.

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The Paranormal Skeptic

Yes its like I said people seem to think Jason and Grant run the show, when truth is they dont, they are the one's getting told what to do.

Edited by Black_Swamp_Paranormal

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JustNormal
Yes its like I said people seem to think Jason and Grant run the show, when truth is they dont, they are the one's getting told what to.

I agree, and lets face it, we all have a boss..JN

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Gothgurl11

I personally like the show. It is good entertainment, and I think they have found things they can't explain. I don't care how good an "actor" some people think they are...sometimes their reactions look pretty genuine to me when they find something out of the ordinary. And I liked the fact that they have debunked things on the show. That is part of investigating is it not? And for all we know...they could go and investigate 30 places a week and Sci-Fi channel picks the ones they deem as "show worthy". If Jason and Grant have basically no input in the final decision that is.

My husband hates the show and he likes to refer to it as "Ghost Plumbers" and provokes me by saying things like "Oh what did they find this time? NOTHING!!" And he hated Brian lol.

I'll keep watching it, I like them and I like the team and they do visit some pretty cool places sometimes. But I do think that yes, occasionally they do find things not easily explained away. Isn't that what a lot of us have done? Or want to do?

But, when I watched the Manson murder site episode, I was real disappointed...esp with the meter that one of the victims, Jay Sebring was using to "talk" to them? I thought that was total BS and the owner of the house just rubbed me the wrong way. He was just a little too much you know? Too bad the original house was torn down...I would be more apt to believe in whatever they found if they were able to investigate that.

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supervike
I agree, and lets face it, we all have a boss..JN

True, but I never have to sell my integrity to please my boss.

I can't buy that excuse.

If they are happy with not being credible, and are content just making $$, then there is no problem. But i hope they don't want the best of both worlds.

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chewlip

Compared to Most Haunted and Paranormal State, Ghost Hunters is "scientific".

The clips of them plumbing are obviously staged. It's television, I think, initially they probably still did work as plumbers, and Sci Fi keeps including those scenes because it's their "winning formular". The way television works, everything is motivated towards ratings and money. Even "reality" television, such as big brother is edited, and the conventions used (i.e soundtrack) can turn one scene from funny to sinister (a humourous example is

)

My point is that through editing the director can produce anything he/she wants. It may not be a fair representation of the people in the show (for all we know Jay and Grant could be horrible horrible people, but all that gets edited out, so they are more likeable). They could be money grabbing fakers, or genuine nice guys who enjoy what they do. We just don't know. What I am saying is that Ghost Hunters is property of Sci Fi, I'm sure they don't really care about TAPS' credibility. Maybe Jay and Grant don't know, or go along with some things, in order to continue doing it (I'm guessing most of the equipment they use probably belongs to Sci Fi.)

As for the amount of footage they catch... maybe they investigate more places than are shown on TV. (I'm sure there are more than a few people out there who don't really want the interior of their homes broadcast internationally, and TAPS being such a well known group, probably get many requests.) Or they scrap the places that yield no results (after all, we've established they no longer work as plumbers - they have more time than ever) Also, I'm sure most paranormal groups don't have access to a lot of the equipment TAPS has, the cameras in each room, the handycams, the thermocams, the recorders, the laptops, the software, the cables, the truck etc must total thousands of pounds worth of equipment. Logically, they are more likely to capture something than a group with 2 cameras and a voice recorder.

Another point is human error. People mess up, no one is perfect, reading this board there are many many people who genuinely think they've had a paranormal experience, even though it may have a more mundane explaination. Maybe TAPS members overlook some things sometimes, and when they finally realise they were mistaken, Sci Fi ignores this fact - it makes for better TV.

Reading this back it looks like I am defending Ghost Hunters, but that's not my intention. I think TAPS as a group are credible, Jay and Grant likeable and trusworty, but I am also aware that it's television, purely entertainment, and should be taken as such.

To base all your beliefs (I'm a skeptic BTW) on a TELEVISION SHOW is ridiculous.

I would not be shocked if it is revealed Ghost Hunters is fake.

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Lady_Boleyn

I have watched Ghost Hunters since it first came on, and I watch it every week.

As for the amount of footage they catch, maybe they investigate tons of places

and weed out the ones that have no results, and only show the ones that do produce results.

Maybe, when they get footage, they try their best to debunk it, but the producers think that

the footage is good so they show it on T.V.

Another point is human error. People mess up, no one is perfect, reading this board there are many many people who genuinely think they've had a paranormal experience, even though it may have a more mundane explaination. Maybe TAPS members overlook some things sometimes, and when they finally realise they were mistaken, Sci Fi ignores this fact - it makes for better TV.

Reading this back it looks like I am defending Ghost Hunters, but that's not my intention. I think TAPS as a group are credible, Jay and Grant likeable and trusworty, but I am also aware that it's television, purely entertainment, and should be taken as such.

I agree with you.

I don't think they would purposly fake evidence.

If the evidence is faulty then they probably overlooked something and didn't know it.

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Korbus
I personally like the show. It is good entertainment, and I think they have found things they can't explain. I don't care how good an "actor" some people think they are...sometimes their reactions look pretty genuine to me when they find something out of the ordinary. And I liked the fact that they have debunked things on the show. That is part of investigating is it not? And for all we know...they could go and investigate 30 places a week and Sci-Fi channel picks the ones they deem as "show worthy". If Jason and Grant have basically no input in the final decision that is.

I like the show, too. I'm sure I'll end up watching the new episode next week. I believe they have found things that are quite possibly paranormal. I don't think it is ALL being faked or tampered with.

As far as their reactions being genuine, let me just say this: "Take 2." Ya know what I mean? Remember, this show is editted down from hours worth of footage into approximately 44 minutes. I'm not saying they are doing multiple takes, but that would explain a reaction that seems geniune. Along these same lines, I'm personally getting sick of them seeing things but the cameras aren't catching it. Jay sees a Shadowman kneel down and then fly out of the room. Grant sees a face in the underground confinement areas at Fort Mifflin. Can't Sci Fi spring for some helmet cams or something? Let's make it so that we can see what they see. If they witness an apparition, let's roll the tape.

And yes, it is certainly part of investigating that they debunk things. That's what my team does too, of course. Any team should. That doesn't make it any less likely they are tampering with or faking evidence however. Or, at the very least, not being analytical enough. Look at the facts. Stay open minded. Look at my original post when I started this thread and dig deeper yourself. Something strange is going on. If you aren't seeing it, it's because you're trying too hard not to.

I don't have much doubt they investigate places not aired on television. However, I sincerely doubt it's too many more. If it was, they wouldn't have time for all the appearances they make, all the ghost tours they're leading, their weekly radio show, their magazine, their families, etc. Let's face facts here. There simply aren't enough hours in a day or a week to do a helluva lot of investigations when you've got that much other stuff (and more) going on.

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Korbus
I have watched Ghost Hunters since it first came on, and I watch it every week.

As for the amount of footage they catch, maybe they investigate tons of places

and weed out the ones that have no results, and only show the ones that do produce results.

Maybe, when they get footage, they try their best to debunk it, but the producers think that

the footage is good so they show it on T.V.

I agree with you.

I don't think they would purposly fake evidence.

If the evidence is faulty then they probably overlooked something and didn't know it.

Well, as far as investigating tons of places and weeding out the locations with no results....just read the last post I just made. They've got too much going on every week to investigate that much. And it's a lot more difficult to capture evidence than it appears on television. You have to revisit the same location time and time again to gather information. It simply doesn't happen on cue.

And your second point, about them just overlooking everything...it's possible in a lot of cases. The quote you posted is correct. We're human, we all make mistakes. And I have no problem with them showing certain footage on tv. For instance, the FLIR footage of the Crescent Hotel military man with cap and #2 on his arm...that SHOULD have been showed on tv. But then it should have been debunked and not used in the reveal as evidence. If they missed that, something that was blatantly obvious to me (a paranormal investigator with far less experience than Jay and Grant) then they really should be ashamed of themselves.

Again, they're not just making typical human mistakes here. They're either purposely passing off bad evidence as legitimate, or they are being completely irresponsible.

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Plainbob13
I have been noticing that they have been really giving that one guy (don’t know his name) a really hard time lately, he can’t seem to do anything right. They even went back to a location to spend another 2 nights to make sure no one "faked" evidence, did they do that to get everyone off the trail of thinking they are producing their own "haunting evidence”?

I just found it odd, how all of the sudden they are not trusting their own footage or evidence, and if they did before, they never let it be known to the audience until now? It was almost like they were hinting around that someone on the team faked it? and they had to go back for the Integrity of the team to make sure thats what they saw. It seemed a bit of a stretch to me.

I think your talking about Brian. And yes, he was the BalFathers whipping boy. I really find it funny that Steve the king of freakouts, could do the same mistakes brian did and not get yelled at. But thats just me.

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bankai26

Yea helmet ir cams would be cool. Then they couldn't say i see a shadow when were looking at their line of sight. I mean u say u see something so were supose to believe it, No... why even say it on tv when you can't prove it? but there is definitely more evidence coming up progressively. any die hard gohst hunters fan will agree that the evidence has changed from the begining.

Edited by bankai26

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The Paranormal Skeptic

Another episode that should never have been aired was the staged K2 meter episode. That meter was so fake it blew my mind that they were showing this while I was watching it. This adds to the people who have years of experience how could they let this happen? Because of the Sci Fi network, they don’t care about authentic evidence they care about money and ratings. And someone made a comment about not selling your integrity, when you in a position to make tons of money and have your own TV show we can talk then, until that happens no one can say what they would or wouldn’t do. So like I said when you reach that status talk to me about integrity, because money talks. You also have to remember CONTRACTS, if they said no to something which there contract says they must its call a breach of contract and you will be sued and possibly loose everything you already worked so hard to get. As Jason Hawse said himself “YOU SEE WHAT SCI FI WANTS YOU TO SEE.”

Edited by Black_Swamp_Paranormal

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bankai26

I thing GH should do a tag along program! take sceptics or anyone for that matter and bring them on investigations. like a diferent person each time and they are responsable for there own costs. i don't think they would do that! maybee they wouldn't cause they have things to hide?

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chewlip

Another quick point is...

Anybody who presents something publically expects to be criticised. The fact that this is a paranormal show intensifies that.

ANY footage or photograph of something supposedly paranormal will get both people believing it, and others crying "FAKE" or, if they're being polite "you were mistaken" no matter how much proof you have. And rightly so. I don't believe there is ANY footage of a supposed ghost, which no one can debunk, and everybody believes is real. Otherwise, everyone would just accept ghosts exist, no question.

For believers there is overwhelming proof of ghosts, and for non believers there will never be enough proof.

Theoretically, if everything that was shown on ghost hunters was completely 100% real there would STILL be people saying it is all faked.

What you must remember above everything is that Ghost hunters is a TV show. It is entertainment, that is all. Integrity has been compromised by definition.

I think everyone has agreed that some footage that has appeared on Ghost Hunters is dubious, it seems the main debate now is "who's fault is it?"

My money is on Sci Fi, even though TAPS are by no means completely resolved of responsibility. It doesn't mean they are bad people.

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The Paranormal Skeptic

Here is another fact, none absolutely no evidence TAPS gets can be viewed by anyone except TAPS.

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Plainbob13
Here is another fact, none absolutely no evidence TAPS gets can be viewed by anyone except TAPS.

Now that is interesting.

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The Paranormal Skeptic
Another quick point is...

My money is on Sci Fi, even though TAPS are by no means completely resolved of responsibility. It doesn't mean they are bad people.

No one has stated TAPS are bad people, I am saying there may be some type of fake evidence being presented as real evidence. In my opinion it is not TAPS it is the network..

Edited by Black_Swamp_Paranormal

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The Paranormal Skeptic
Now that is interesting.

oh yea, I can remember when they used to show evidence on there web page, but that to has been taken down.

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bankai26

Can you imagine if we were able to view all their evidence... that would be a clear message that the objectivity is still there! but no its taken off, i wonder why?

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chewlip
Can you imagine if we were able to view all their evidence... that would be a clear message that the objectivity is still there! but no its taken off, i wonder why?

Copyright? Maybe it is property of Sci Fi?

If you look at youtube all the Ghost Hunters episodes are on there... with the collected evidence, to play and replay at your leisure. I think Sci Fi was very unhappy with this though, and I think a few members of youtube were banned, due to pressure on youtube by Sci Fi. Strangely, other users with Ghost Hunters uploaded were fine.

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Hamlyn
Can you imagine if we were able to view all their evidence... that would be a clear message that the objectivity is still there! but no its taken off, i wonder why?

You hit the nail. THAT'S one of the key differences between real research and an entertainment product!

Real scientists put it all out there for peer review. If they have a dataset, they upload it (or should, anyway) to a consortium such as ICPSR so that others can examine the raw data. In physics, there are online prepublication archives. It is all very open. That's scientific research, darn it.

When somebody controls who can and can't see it, and what portions they can and can't see, it's not scientific research!

Gary Schwartz and Ciaran O'Keefe are scientists who are publishing research, and they have another foot solidly in the popular, mass-market media. It can be done. I don't think TAPS is doing it, certainly not through that show.

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