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Korbus

Does TAPS Fake Their Evidence?

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chewlip

I've been thinking about all of this... It's strange that a TV show causes so many differences of opinion.

Anyway, referring to the links given by the OP... I can take the points raised. Maybe those certains bits of evidence ARE faked, maybe they are mistakes, or maybe they are real, who knows?

It's strange how you've picked on those clips to post. Well, not strange, but considering GH is a paranormal show... Pretty much ALL the evidence they have captured could be faked. One event that springs to mind is when they investigate the lighthouse (in Florida?) and catch shadows at the top of the stairs, moving about, and speeding from one point to another. We are told that no-one is up there, and there's nothing that would cause such an effect. Or the Eastern State Penetentiary episode, when the soundman's bag hits him in the face and he falls. These things could EASILY be faked, either by someone there at the time, or in post-production (it is the SCI FI as in science fiction channel after all), yet we are told there was no one around, or there is nothing that would cause that effect, and we believe it.

I, personally, don't think they are faking anything, I think Sci Fi is just very elective in what they does and doesn't make the final cut.

I would also wager that TAPS also are limited about what they can reveal to the public due to legally-binding contracts.

My point is that, if you are going to "pick" evidence to analyse, analyse ALL of it. You can't trust them on some things and not on others. The fact is , NO ONE can trust paranormal footage from ANY source unless you were personally there, and can vouch for the authenticity.

It's such a prominant group that I'm sure they're aware that the footage IS going to be analysed, and I don't see why they would bother deliberately faking things, although that doesn't resolve Sci Fi's "creative" editing.

As for science... I don't think investigating the paranormal is an exact science. Because no one really knows what ghosts are, or if they even exist, groups, through experience, and trial and error, learn what works and what doesn't. After all, ghosts are just a theory, with many off-shoots of theories, and there is no way that ghosts can be prooven to exist, and likewise it can't be proven that they don't, because you can't proove a negative. There are also many different types of groups. Compared to groups whom use psychics, Ghost Hunters IS scientific.

It appears that this thread has caused some tension between different groups. I don't think it's appropriate to argue, after all, you're all working towards the same goal. To start saying "my groups is better than yours" or "my group is better than TAPS" is childish (before you have a go at me, those things were NOT said, but it's the tone I get from some posters). Like I just said, every group is different. It's like sitting next to a know-all when watching some show and that person picking out everything they do "wrong", when it's not really, it's just different to how you do it.

That's all, now I'm going to eat some tasty toast.

Edited by chewlip

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Korbus
I've been thinking about all of this... It's strange that a TV show causes so many differences of opinion.

Anyway, referring to the links given by the OP... I can take the points raised. Maybe those certains bits of evidence ARE faked, maybe they are mistakes, or maybe they are real, who knows?

It's strange how you've picked on those clips to post. Well, not strange, but considering GH is a paranormal show... Pretty much ALL the evidence they have captured could be faked. One event that springs to mind is when they investigate the lighthouse (in Florida?) and catch shadows at the top of the stairs, moving about, and speeding from one point to another. We are told that no-one is up there, and there's nothing that would cause such an effect. Or the Eastern State Penetentiary episode, when the soundman's bag hits him in the face and he falls. These things could EASILY be faked, either by someone there at the time, or in post-production (it is the SCI FI as in science fiction channel after all), yet we are told there was no one around, or there is nothing that would cause that effect, and we believe it.

I, personally, don't think they are faking anything, I think Sci Fi is just very elective in what they does and doesn't make the final cut.

I would also wager that TAPS also are limited about what they can reveal to the public due to legally-binding contracts.

My point is that, if you are going to "pick" evidence to analyse, analyse ALL of it. You can't trust them on some things and not on others. The fact is , NO ONE can trust paranormal footage from ANY source unless you were personally there, and can vouch for the authenticity.

It's such a prominant group that I'm sure they're aware that the footage IS going to be analysed, and I don't see why they would bother deliberately faking things, although that doesn't resolve Sci Fi's "creative" editing.

As for science... I don't think investigating the paranormal is an exact science. Because no one really knows what ghosts are, or if they even exist, groups, through experience, and trial and error, learn what works and what doesn't. After all, ghosts are just a theory, with many off-shoots of theories, and there is no way that ghosts can be prooven to exist, and likewise it can't be proven that they don't, because you can't proove a negative. There are also many different types of groups. Compared to groups whom use psychics, Ghost Hunters IS scientific.

It appears that this thread has caused some tension between different groups. I don't think it's appropriate to argue, after all, you're all working towards the same goal. To start saying "my groups is better than yours" or "my group is better than TAPS" is childish (before you have a go at me, those things were NOT said, but it's the tone I get from some posters). Like I just said, every group is different. It's like sitting next to a know-all when watching some show and that person picking out everything they do "wrong", when it's not really, it's just different to how you do it.

That's all, now I'm going to eat some tasty toast.

Chewlip, Im disappointed. I like your intelligence, but I really feel like you aren't reading my posts, but just assuming what it's going to say. I know this thread has gone on a while, but if you read what I've written, you'll find that we basically agree. I put those 3 clips up on the OP just to show a sample of what I was talking about. I wanted to give an example of my overall point. And I believe I have stated, also, that there really is no way to know what really happened through TV. You had to have been there to truly know. So, again, we agree.

I would like to correct you on one thing though. I know you weren't quoting, and instead just going by tone....but I would like to say for the record that I DO NOT feel my group is better than TAPS. They have much more experience than me, better equipment, more funding, etc....I am NOT more knowledgeable on the paranormal than Jay or Grant, etc. I won't claim to be, and I really don't think I ever created the tone that I was. I have referenced my own group at times to make a point, but I've never intimated I'm better. Because, simply put, I'm not. We are working toward the same goal, though. You were right about that. But just because I'm in a paranormal group of my own doesn't negate me from being able to question others. That's foolishness.

There, I hope I've settled that.

Edited by Jason KB

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LIGhostChick

I never understood why someone would go out of their way to bash people. It's like the have nothing better to do so they have to pick on others to make themselves feel better & more important. If you think TAPS is faking evidence, then DONT WATCH THE SHOW!!!

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Blazar

I read through ten pages on this topic.... Its a TV show and you wern't there when these events occured so its pointless to bicker about it. Maybe its faked? Maybe its not? You don't like it or think its doctored? Don't watch! Here's an idea.. go out and do your own ghost hunting. The only way to verify it is seeing it with your own eyes. Other wise its second hand.

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The Paranormal Skeptic
I never understood why someone would go out of their way to bash people. It's like the have nothing better to do so they have to pick on others to make themselves feel better & more important. If you think TAPS is faking evidence, then DONT WATCH THE SHOW!!!

I am not bashing anyone, I am saying some of there evidence is questionable why is that such a sin to say? Plus I have never said TAPS is faking anything people need to take time and read these posts. If you dont like what we are discussing why bash it? Dont post in the thread then.

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Korbus
I read through ten pages on this topic.... Its a TV show and you wern't there when these events occured so its pointless to bicker about it. Maybe its faked? Maybe its not? You don't like it or think its doctored? Don't watch! Here's an idea.. go out and do your own ghost hunting. The only way to verify it is seeing it with your own eyes. Other wise its second hand.

You've read through ten pages but apparently have not understood what you've read. At least, not from me. If you re-read what I've written you'll see me say a few times that I am a fan of TAPS and think they are a great group. My argument from the beginning has been that in order for TAPS to maintain credibility (which is what I want) then they need to respond to the increasing number of skeptical accusations against them. Otherwise, they become like Paranormal State and Most Haunted. And yes, those are shows I do not watch.

I agree with you that you basically have to be there to truly know if something happened. Again, you'll see I've made the same argument. And I do ghost hunt with a team called Black Swamp Paranormal. Check out my avatar. Read my UM profile.

And seriously, if you feel like it's pointless to debate or bicker, than what are you doing here debating and bickering?

Good day!

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JustNormal
The show shrinks on my schedule like water on a hot sidewalk. I agree with JN (regarding the provoking, and trying something new). The show is stale already. What happened to the fear element that gripped us when it premiered? I can almost see the scripted dialogue passing in their minds before they speak. And the dialogue itself is predictable. For petes sake...give me fright...give me night terrors...give me Hooters Girls or SOMETHING!

Nice to see you all. I'm in the middle of storm season. BBS. ~Jackal

((((((((((((((((Jackal)))))))))))) There you are my friend..SO nice to see you again. JN :yes:

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Lady_Boleyn
I've been thinking about all of this... It's strange that a TV show causes so many differences of opinion.

Anyway, referring to the links given by the OP... I can take the points raised. Maybe those certains bits of evidence ARE faked, maybe they are mistakes, or maybe they are real, who knows?

It's strange how you've picked on those clips to post. Well, not strange, but considering GH is a paranormal show... Pretty much ALL the evidence they have captured could be faked. One event that springs to mind is when they investigate the lighthouse (in Florida?) and catch shadows at the top of the stairs, moving about, and speeding from one point to another. We are told that no-one is up there, and there's nothing that would cause such an effect. Or the Eastern State Penetentiary episode, when the soundman's bag hits him in the face and he falls. These things could EASILY be faked, either by someone there at the time, or in post-production (it is the SCI FI as in science fiction channel after all), yet we are told there was no one around, or there is nothing that would cause that effect, and we believe it.

I, personally, don't think they are faking anything, I think Sci Fi is just very elective in what they does and doesn't make the final cut.

I would also wager that TAPS also are limited about what they can reveal to the public due to legally-binding contracts.

My point is that, if you are going to "pick" evidence to analyse, analyse ALL of it. You can't trust them on some things and not on others. The fact is , NO ONE can trust paranormal footage from ANY source unless you were personally there, and can vouch for the authenticity.

It's such a prominant group that I'm sure they're aware that the footage IS going to be analysed, and I don't see why they would bother deliberately faking things, although that doesn't resolve Sci Fi's "creative" editing.

As for science... I don't think investigating the paranormal is an exact science. Because no one really knows what ghosts are, or if they even exist, groups, through experience, and trial and error, learn what works and what doesn't. After all, ghosts are just a theory, with many off-shoots of theories, and there is no way that ghosts can be prooven to exist, and likewise it can't be proven that they don't, because you can't proove a negative. There are also many different types of groups. Compared to groups whom use psychics, Ghost Hunters IS scientific.

It appears that this thread has caused some tension between different groups. I don't think it's appropriate to argue, after all, you're all working towards the same goal. To start saying "my groups is better than yours" or "my group is better than TAPS" is childish (before you have a go at me, those things were NOT said, but it's the tone I get from some posters). Like I just said, every group is different. It's like sitting next to a know-all when watching some show and that person picking out everything they do "wrong", when it's not really, it's just different to how you do it.

I couldn't agree with you more, chewlip.

Basically, this is everyone's opinion. And your not going to get the person who thinks the evidence is "faked" to believe that it's real, and vise versa.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

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MasterPo
Why shouldn't the credibility of TAPS and shows like it be questioned?

For the simple reason that you can't and shouldn't judge a person or a group by a TV show.

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S2F

Its just a TV show, one among many in fake "reality" shows. (sorry if i'm bursting anyones bubble here) The events are scripted as well as the evidence. Its all about more viewers=more money, and apperantly their formula is working. :D It's kinda like someone believing that Gilligan and crew were actually stranded on an island hehe.

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LadyHay
For the simple reason that you can't and shouldn't judge a person or a group by a TV show.

Explain please. Cant judge a person or a group by a TV show? Well we can certainly implement peer review on the group. I will agree (if that's what you are saying) that the TV show and the group TAPS are different entities. But why can we not question the validity of this show? Many do of Most Haunted and others like it. So why not this one?

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S2F

One more thing, it's on the Sci-Fi channel. Science Fiction, meaning not real. I suppose they could show something real on that network, but it would be more plausible if it were on Discovery or something, although I still wouldn't necessarily believe it.

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LadyHay
One more thing, it's on the Sci-Fi channel. Science Fiction, meaning not real. I suppose they could show something real on that network, but it would be more plausible if it were on Discovery or something, although I still wouldn't necessarily believe it.

GOOD POINT

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chewlip
Chewlip, Im disappointed. I like your intelligence, but I really feel like you aren't reading my posts, but just assuming what it's going to say. I know this thread has gone on a while, but if you read what I've written, you'll find that we basically agree. I put those 3 clips up on the OP just to show a sample of what I was talking about. I wanted to give an example of my overall point. And I believe I have stated, also, that there really is no way to know what really happened through TV. You had to have been there to truly know. So, again, we agree.

I would like to correct you on one thing though. I know you weren't quoting, and instead just going by tone....but I would like to say for the record that I DO NOT feel my group is better than TAPS. They have much more experience than me, better equipment, more funding, etc....I am NOT more knowledgeable on the paranormal than Jay or Grant, etc. I won't claim to be, and I really don't think I ever created the tone that I was. I have referenced my own group at times to make a point, but I've never intimated I'm better. Because, simply put, I'm not. We are working toward the same goal, though. You were right about that. But just because I'm in a paranormal group of my own doesn't negate me from being able to question others. That's foolishness.

There, I hope I've settled that.

I apologise, Jason KB. That wasn't aimed at you, more paranormal groups in general. Some people approach the subject in a more religious, spiritual way, and others in more scientific ways. People have different beliefs and theories, and some people get very passionate about it, which in itself is not a bad thing, but when they thrust their beliefs on others and get annoyed when it is questioned, it's very frustrating. Again, I'm not accusing you, personally, of this.

I have read your posts, and followed this whole thread closely, and I don't think you're out of order at all. It's created a lively and interesting debate.

The only paranormal show that is aired here is Most Haunted, and in comparison, Ghost Hunters seems a lot more real and interesting (I watch it on youtube) I think it's probably the best show of it's genre, and Jay and Grant are very likable guys, so I think a lot of people get quite defensive about it.

I was going to write more, but it's 4am here and my brain is asleep.

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Shakezulah
Its just a TV show, one among many in fake "reality" shows. (sorry if i'm bursting anyones bubble here) The events are scripted as well as the evidence. Its all about more viewers=more money, and apperantly their formula is working. :D It's kinda like someone believing that Gilligan and crew were actually stranded on an island hehe.

Way to present your opinion like it's a fact. Sorry, but it isn't. And no, it's absolutely nothing like that.

One more thing, it's on the Sci-Fi channel. Science Fiction, meaning not real. I suppose they could show something real on that network, but it would be more plausible if it were on Discovery or something, although I still wouldn't necessarily believe it.

GH is on Sci-Fi because it's more about the subject matter rather than the genre. I'm sick of people always making this argument.

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Korbus
I apologise, Jason KB. That wasn't aimed at you, more paranormal groups in general. Some people approach the subject in a more religious, spiritual way, and others in more scientific ways. People have different beliefs and theories, and some people get very passionate about it, which in itself is not a bad thing, but when they thrust their beliefs on others and get annoyed when it is questioned, it's very frustrating. Again, I'm not accusing you, personally, of this.

I have read your posts, and followed this whole thread closely, and I don't think you're out of order at all. It's created a lively and interesting debate.

The only paranormal show that is aired here is Most Haunted, and in comparison, Ghost Hunters seems a lot more real and interesting (I watch it on youtube) I think it's probably the best show of it's genre, and Jay and Grant are very likable guys, so I think a lot of people get quite defensive about it.

I was going to write more, but it's 4am here and my brain is asleep.

My apologies, friend. I honestly thought you were referencing me or my group. No offense taken, however. So, really, we're good.

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S2F
Way to present your opinion like it's a fact. Sorry, but it isn't. And no, it's absolutely nothing like that.

GH is on Sci-Fi because it's more about the subject matter rather than the genre. I'm sick of people always making this argument.

I'm not questioning paranormal activity here, just the show's authenticity, so chill a bit :D

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Shakezulah
I'm not questioning paranormal activity here, just the show's authenticity, so chill a bit :D

You said the entire show is scripted, as well as the evidence. That's pretty much questioning the paranormal activity. Is it really that hard to believe that they might actually find some evidence of paranormal activity in locations that really have a history of hauntings? Saying that they might stretch reality a bit is one thing, but saying that everything they find is fake is completely recockulous.

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S2F

I suppose i should have clarified, the evidence from the show is scripted, not ALL evidence. This show was made for entertainment purposes, and to believe otherwise seems to me as "recockulous"

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MasterPo
Explain please. Cant judge a person or a group by a TV show? Well we can certainly implement peer review on the group. I will agree (if that's what you are saying) that the TV show and the group TAPS are different entities. But why can we not question the validity of this show? Many do of Most Haunted and others like it. So why not this one?

Most Haunted has long since admitted that much of what they show are staged based on reports of others or re-enactments from other people's reports. I'm not going to do a this show vs. that show comparison. There is clear different approaches between the people shown on various shows. Some do try to find real answers in different ways and some are just going for the sensationalism.

To your first point, anyone can be made to look awesome or foolish on TV. Filming and editing can turn anyone's life on ear. We see that daily with public figures.

I think it's OK to point out flaws that are show and to debate them but you are way short changing a person and groupt o make a conclusion based on a 30 or 60 minute (really 22 or 42 minutes after commercials!) TV show once a week.

As I've pointed out numerous times on these forums, a group like TAPS can spend 14+ hours on site doing an investigation and all we see is maybe 30 minutes of it. When they review the evidence collected 60-70+ hours of video and audio is shown reviewed in a minute or two. And I know from personal conversations with Jason and Grant that many interesting things they did collect/happen on investigations the production company chose to edit out. Even they can't understand why sometimes!

ps- Regarding the peer review, anyone who's been here long enough knows I am 110% for it. But several things have to be considered, not the least of which is no one from those shows is here to answere the questions that are being raised.

Edited by MasterPo

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LadyHay
Most Haunted has long since admitted that much of what they show are staged based on reports of others or re-enactments from other people's reports. I'm not going to do a this show vs. that show comparison. There is clear different approaches between the people shown on various shows. Some do try to find real answers in different ways and some are just going for the sensationalism.

To your first point, anyone can be made to look awesome or foolish on TV. Filming and editing can turn anyone's life on ear. We see that daily with public figures.

I think it's OK to point out flaws that are show and to debate them but you are way short changing a person and groupt o make a conclusion based on a 30 or 60 minute (really 22 or 42 minutes after commercials!) TV show once a week.

As I've pointed out numerous times on these forums, a group like TAPS can spend 14+ hours on site doing an investigation and all we see is maybe 30 minutes of it. When they review the evidence collected 60-70+ hours of video and audio is shown reviewed in a minute or two. And I know from personal conversations with Jason and Grant that many interesting things they did collect/happen on investigations the production company chose to edit out. Even they can't understand why sometimes!

ps- Regarding the peer review, anyone who's been here long enough knows I am 110% for it. But several things have to be considered, not the least of which is no one from those shows is here to answere the questions that are being raised.

Thanks for clarifying. No, I certainly didn't want to do a comparison of shows. Just wanted to know why we could make remarks about the likes of Most Haunted and not Ghost Hunters.

It is no secret that even the most serious of shows have a tendency of being "sexed up". Even lame 10 minute interviews can be this way, speaking from first hand experience. So many of us are dubious that we are, in fact, getting honesty from these shows. Also I would like to point out that TAPs may have the same people involved, but they are not the same. Obviously, one is a show, and one is a real investigative team. Saying that, I hope that it makes it clear that I for one am only trying to discuss the show, and not TAPS. The show may be a problem for Grant and Jayson. They may be expected to play along with the networks decisions and not like it. This is another thing that none of us know.

Edited - I just realized I had only read half your post MasterPo and got distracted - sorry for sounding like I ignored your post (My last para)

The biggest diff is with TAPS, obviously Grant and Jayson call the shots. With Ghost Hunter, the network does. So, really, I am calling into question the network, or the TV show.

Edited by LadyHay

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S2F
I suppose i should have clarified, the evidence from the show is scripted, not ALL evidence. This show was made for entertainment purposes, and to believe otherwise seems to me as "recockulous"

perhaps i was being a little overzealous, maybe not all of the evidence from the show is scripted, in fact some of it might be real, however I still think this show was made purely for entertainment purposes. Thats as close as a retraction as you'll get from me. :D

P.S. sorry for quoting myself, i'm not really self absorbed, I just wanted everyone to know what i was referring to :D

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eqgumby
One more thing, it's on the Sci-Fi channel. Science Fiction, meaning not real. I suppose they could show something real on that network, but it would be more plausible if it were on Discovery or something, although I still wouldn't necessarily believe it.

I think that's a pointless idea. Ever see "A Haunting" on discovery channel? Does that mean it's all real?

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S2F

You are right, one shouldn't believe everything on Discovery either.

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LadyHay

Ah well, Jason, I must say you've been very mature about everything and it is really too bad no one chose to PM you with their little jabs. LOL :tu:

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