Why doesn't God help?

[momentarylapseofreason]

God is a parent.

Well yes, according to the bible he is. Now we are getting somewhere.

[danielost]

How can I blame god when I'm not even sure if he exists ?

But in case he does, yes, i blame him for not helping where/when he could have.

According to YOU- he can help without a doubt.

These passages from God's word tell us there can be no question that God wants us to pray and that He promises to answer our prayers.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." (John 14:13-14)

"And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you." (John 16:23)

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." (Romans 10:12)

"For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Ephesians 2:18)

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:16)

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus. . (Hebrews 10:19)

"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14-15)

But the answer to our prayer may not be what we ask for. For instance the 3 year old may have been better off dieing not living I don't know do you.

The United States has the ability to feed the whole world if it wants to. How many farmers are paid not to grow any crops.

[TheDreamer]

Okay, before I read the rest of this thread and die of disappointment, I would like to say something.

Free will.

Choice...God gave you that...or you would be mindless and without thought. A robot. I'd much rather have the ability to act and think on my own.

So do all human beings. Not all of them are good human beings, most are bad. God tried to help us again and again and again. But he needed to know what we were going through, what it meant to be human. So he came to earth as a little baby, with no advantages to life as God himself, He is the word made flesh.

You may be reading that thinking to yourself "Oh no, here's another bible thumper! Oh boy, not again", but please understand that God knows pain, suffering, and extreme injustice. But what kind of God, or "Father" would he be if he did everything for us? Sometimes we must learn.

God gave us life, love, beauty, splendor, and free will. What do we do? We spit in his face when something bad happens. Bad things come from bad decisions which comes from us, and God gave us one last chance yet we are still spitting in his face.

All I ask is that all of you think before you outright hate God because of what an idiot has done.

Be thankful for what you have and not for what you don't have, for there are people who have felt greater suffering.

J

Edited June 6, 2008 by TheDreamer

[momentarylapseofreason]

Okay, before I read the rest of this thread and die of disappointment, I would like to say something.

Free will.

Choice...God gave you that...or you would be mindless and without thought. A robot. I'd much rather have the ability to act and think on my own.

So do all human beings. Not all of them are good human beings, most are bad. God tried to help us again and again and again. But he needed to know what we were going through, what it meant to be human. So he came to earth as a little baby, with no advantages to life as God himself, He is the word made flesh.

You may be reading that thinking to yourself "Oh no, here's another bible thumper! Oh boy, not again", but please understand that God knows pain, suffering, and extreme injustice. But what kind of God, or "Father" would he be if he did everything for us? Sometimes we must learn.

God gave us life, love, beauty, splendor, and free will. What do we do? We spit in his face when something bad happens. Bad things come from bad decisions which comes from us, and God gave us one last chance yet we are still spitting in his face.

All I ask is that all of you think before you outright hate God because of what an idiot has done.

Be thankful for what you have and not for what you don't have, for there are people who have felt greater suffering.

J

Oh the "free will' argument ?

Now explain to me where the free will helps the victim? Namely the child ?

[momentarylapseofreason]

But the answer to our prayer may not be what we ask for. For instance the 3 year old may have been better off dieing not living I don't know do you.

The United States has the ability to feed the whole world if it wants to. How many farmers are paid not to grow any crops.

What do crops have to do with3 yr. old's dying ?

How many kids are still living who may have been better off dead ? As in brain dead or "locked in syndrome " ?

[danielost]

Oh the "free will' argument ?

Now explain to me where the free will helps the victim? Namely the child ?

The child is going to heaven period. She didn't get a chance to exercise her free will.

[momentarylapseofreason]

The child is going to heaven period. She didn't get a chance to exercise her free will.

I wish I could believe that and maybe you are correct, but it still didn't HAVE TO HAPPEN. What about the poor parents left behind ?

Like i said, NEEDLESS SUFFERING.

Glad that you found light in the darkness.

I feel it is not a progressive view, but if it gives you comfort, I understand.

[MissMelsWell]

Oh please . Do parents need to play god now too ? You know darn well that a parent can't hover like a helicopter 24/7, besides it's not healthy.

Last time i checked god is god, and all that this entails.

Terrible things happen in the best of families, not just those that follow god's example of neglect.

What good is the "free will" card to the parent that lost his child through no fault of his own ?

I was speaking to this case specifically... that childs mother watched her daughter being beathen to death and did nothing.

I of ALL people know we can't watch our children 24/7, and I never have... probably watched my kid less than most parents all things considered.

If something had happened to her... blaming god would not be something I'd do (it would be nonsensical). But I explained why earlier in this thread.

I think like most of the atheists around here... stuff happens, bad stuff sometimes, sometimes there are responsible parties, sometimes not. But, like I've always said... I don't think God dips his divine hand down to physically help anyone, I don't believe in miracles either. Yet, I still believe.

**braces self for the next comments of "then you're a bad christian" or "you're not a real believer"** that's usually the next turn in these conversations.

[danielost]

I will say it again. All miracles can be explained if not today then tomorrow but the timing cannot.

Edited June 6, 2008 by danielost

[Karlis]

Here is some more "coarse" language. Enjoy.................

Want some more ?

Hhmmm ... which web-site did you search to find these ... Skepticsannotatedbible.com, was it not?

Apart from proving you can copy-paste without giving your source, what else did you show us about you?

Ah yes -- you show us that you do not know the context in which these Scriptures were used.

Not that I really think you are interested in knowing the context, but these descriptive words and phrases were used to show how far into immoral idolatry Israel had fallen; and to inform Israel of the severe punishment God was going to mete out upon those people.

Regards,

Karlis

Edited June 6, 2008 by Karlis

[momentarylapseofreason]

Hhmmm ... which web-site did you search to find these ... Skepticsannotatedbible.com, was it not?

Apart from proving you can copy-paste without giving your source, what else did you show us about you?

Ah yes -- you show us that you do not know the context in which these Scriptures were used.

Not that I really think you are interested in knowing the context, but these descriptive words and phrases were used to show how far into immoral idolatry Israel had fallen; and to inform Israel of the severe punishment God was going to mete out upon those people.

Regards,

Karlis

That was an honest mistake lady

What does it say about me ? I think it says that I ask ALOT of questions

You can play the out of context game all you want , FACT IS THAT YOUR BOOK is full of COARSE LANGUAGE

Yeah yeah immoral idolatry whatever............it's in there baby and it's nasty. It surely needs a warning label .....large donkey bits and all

lets get back on topic

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/don...gan/vulgar.html

Edited June 7, 2008 by momentarylapseofreason

[momentarylapseofreason]

I was speaking to this case specifically... that childs mother watched her daughter being beathen to death and did nothing.

I of ALL people know we can't watch our children 24/7, and I never have... probably watched my kid less than most parents all things considered.

If something had happened to her... blaming god would not be something I'd do (it would be nonsensical). But I explained why earlier in this thread.

I think like most of the atheists around here... stuff happens, bad stuff sometimes, sometimes there are responsible parties, sometimes not. But, like I've always said... I don't think God dips his divine hand down to physically help anyone, I don't believe in miracles either. Yet, I still believe.

**braces self for the next comments of "then you're a bad christian" or "you're not a real believer"** that's usually the next turn in these conversations.

Thanks for clarifying . At least you make sense & I can understand.

[ShaunZero]

I look at this and see tragedy. It is sad, and I was shocked and horrified when I read it. Did it make me question myself? Yes. Did it make me question humanity? Most definitely yes. Did it make me question God? That would depend on what you mean by that - if it's meant in the sense that I question his goodness, then no, but there are still things to work out with God.

I have said this alread, but considering it's such a large thread, it's easy to miss a post or two, so I'll rephrase what I said before. In my worldview, Jesus' death was necessary for the salvation of humanity. Jesus was the most perfect, most sinless being ever, and he not only went through 45 minutes of suffering, but hours and hours. Granted, Jesus' death was for a purpose, and this child's death may not be, but the very clear and simple point is this - if Jesus, who not only was innocent of the crime he was crucified for, but innocent of everything, was not exempt from suffering, then what makes anyone else, even a child, exempt from suffering? My only conclusion so far has been "nothing"!

Truly it is a sad and tragic event. But pain and suffering, though not necessarily desirable, are a (I believe) necessary part of life. And sometimes these things happen, sad as they may be.

But Jesus had a choice. You're making Jesus sound a bit selfish. As if he's saying "If I suffered(He didn't HAVE to) to my death, why shouldn't you?".

[+Link of Hyrule]

But Jesus had a choice. You're making Jesus sound a bit selfish. As if he's saying "If I suffered(He didn't HAVE to) to my death, why shouldn't you?".

Not exactly what I mean, Shaun. I'm not putting words in Jesus' mouth, saying in a Jesus voice "I suffered, so you should suffer". That's more like tit-for-tat or petty revenge. Rather, I'm simply pointing out that Jesus' death involved pain and suffering, and as such the existence of pain and suffering is a reality, and most of us will experience this at some stage (to varying degrees, of course - we won't all be tortured and murdered). I'm not speaking for Jesus, rather I'm speaking about Jesus.

I think the distinction is a fairly subtle one, but an important one nevertheless.

[Rosewin]

And because Jesus suffered, because God chose to become a human and experience suffering and temptation, He is then in a place to truly empathize with us, help us get through our own suffering and temptations. This is the Christian view.

[TheDreamer]

Oh the "free will' argument ?

Now explain to me where the free will helps the victim? Namely the child ?

That's up to humanity. God does miracles. I've seen it. There was a young girl about 4 in my church who had meningitis(of the spine). It is very deadly and kills most children. But she was prayed for to Jesus Christ. The doctors don't have any explanation as why she completely recovered.

We live in a cruel world full of sick people, with a loving God who gave us free will. Pray to God and he won't steer you wrong, as long as you stick to his plan for you...to become more like him.

So, why are there victims? Because we screwed up and now thanks to us there is injustice and pain.

Thanks to us, not God.

J

[momentarylapseofreason]

That's up to humanity. God does miracles. I've seen it. There was a young girl about 4 in my church who had meningitis(of the spine). It is very deadly and kills most children. But she was prayed for to Jesus Christ. The doctors don't have any explanation as why she completely recovered.

We live in a cruel world full of sick people, with a loving God who gave us free will. Pray to God and he won't steer you wrong, as long as you stick to his plan for you...to become more like him.

So, why are there victims? Because we screwed up and now thanks to us there is injustice and pain.

Thanks to us, not God.

J

I could start the "Why god doesn't heal amputees" bit but I'll spare those that have heard it.

If you have answer as to why god can't make limbs grow back let me know.

Edited June 7, 2008 by momentarylapseofreason

[momentarylapseofreason]

That's up to humanity. God does miracles. I've seen it. There was a young girl about 4 in my church who had meningitis(of the spine). It is very deadly and kills most children. But she was prayed for to Jesus Christ. The doctors don't have any explanation as why she completely recovered.

We live in a cruel world full of sick people, with a loving God who gave us free will. Pray to God and he won't steer you wrong, as long as you stick to his plan for you...to become more like him.

So, why are there victims? Because we screwed up and now thanks to us there is injustice and pain.

Thanks to us, not God.

J

Oh by the way, my cousins daughter had the deadly meningitis and she survived it. My german family are Atheist/Agnostic.

[Cadetak]

That's up to humanity. God does miracles. I've seen it. There was a young girl about 4 in my church who had meningitis(of the spine). It is very deadly and kills most children. But she was prayed for to Jesus Christ. The doctors don't have any explanation as why she completely recovered.

We live in a cruel world full of sick people, with a loving God who gave us free will. Pray to God and he won't steer you wrong, as long as you stick to his plan for you...to become more like him.

So, why are there victims? Because we screwed up and now thanks to us there is injustice and pain.

Thanks to us, not God.

J

God does miracles for one child but not another although they both suffer without either of them doing a wrong.

I once read a report about a rape outside of an apartment building. Residents looked out there windows at the crime taking place but did nothing to prevent it, nothing to help...they just watched. I still wonder what was more wrong the rapist or the residents doing nothing. God watched as this girl was tortured and then died...I fail to see how an all good, all loving, all merciful god can justify this. If she had to die by God's plan or human free will or what have you I would at least expect God to remove her pain while she died.

No its still thanks to God because God created us screwed up.

[TheDreamer]

Oh by the way, my cousins daughter had the deadly meningitis and she survived it. My german family are Atheist/Agnostic.

Well good for them. I really hope that someday you'll listen to your heart rather than your head. I know you can feel something tugging there.

Jordan

[TheDreamer]

God does miracles for one child but not another although they both suffer without either of them doing a wrong.

I once read a report about a rape outside of an apartment building. Residents looked out there windows at the crime taking place but did nothing to prevent it, nothing to help...they just watched. I still wonder what was more wrong the rapist or the residents doing nothing. God watched as this girl was tortured and then died...I fail to see how an all good, all loving, all merciful god can justify this. If she had to die by God's plan or human free will or what have you I would at least expect God to remove her pain while she died.

No its still thanks to God because God created us screwed up.

God created us, gave us free will(I hope you know what that means), and yes, bad people do bad things. BECAUSE OF FREE WILL.

Please don't skip over the rest of the sentences.

J

[danielost]

God does miracles for one child but not another although they both suffer without either of them doing a wrong.

I once read a report about a rape outside of an apartment building. Residents looked out there windows at the crime taking place but did nothing to prevent it, nothing to help...they just watched. I still wonder what was more wrong the rapist or the residents doing nothing. God watched as this girl was tortured and then died...I fail to see how an all good, all loving, all merciful god can justify this. If she had to die by God's plan or human free will or what have you I would at least expect God to remove her pain while she died.

No its still thanks to God because God created us screwed up.

This may sound bad of me, but the girl in the rape case may have suffered a lot but it was only momentary compared to forever. The watchers were just wrong and evil as the rapist was in my opinion.

[momentarylapseofreason]

Well good for them. I really hope that someday you'll listen to your heart rather than your head. I know you can feel something tugging there.

Jordan

Well, , my feelings originate from my head not my heart . My heart pumps blood

And of course I have feelings. I am more intuitive than anyone I have ever known, actually (so far)

Kind regards

Edited June 7, 2008 by momentarylapseofreason

[danielost]

A marine this morning said he hoped his son would follow in his footsteps.

I told him I hope by the time his son is old enough to join the military we wouldn't need armies anymore. He agreed.

[danielost]

Well, , my feelings originate from my head not my heart . My heart pumps blood

Kind regards

emotions don't originate from the head only survival instincts.