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sandee

Good versus evil

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Omnaka
Yoy all have seen the movies where the angels verses the demons, good versus evil here on earth. Well I have always wondered if this really does happen. I mean the people in the movies don't know it is going on so why would we. I know that is Hollywood but what if there are wars right here on earth and we just simply refuse to see it or don't want to or can't. Think about it, imagine if right under our noses the angels are defeating the demons or scary the other way around. If we were able to see this and it was happening would we have a part in the outcomes of these wars between good and evil, or would we want to be involved. If these things are happening maybe we do have a role in the outcome and just don't know it.

Just a thought.

Always a pleasure

There are good and Bad spirits, calling a relatively Bad one a demon is Just giving a spirit a name. Who one calls an Angel, may just be a spirit who has run thhe gammut of Existance, and learned by and through experience the diferance between Good and bad, choosing Good as its Life, or Way, only Through making mistakes and seeing Bad can one choose good, turning all his misdeeds in to learned lessons, which can help and benifit others and self.

Those who have done bad and chosen good can smell evil a Mile away, From experience.

This makes Judge not have alot of significance.

Love Omnaka

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Lt_Ripley

again ... God created evil as much as anything else ..... to serve a purpose.

Satan never fell. Satan is still an angel and can only do as God allows. lucifer is not Satan nor the devil. but reference to a couple of kings. one of which being the king of tyre.

anything else proves one doesn't know the bible but instead believes some myth that has been made up.

( like the bible itself)

Edited by Lt_Ripley

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Marcus Aurelius

"The Basis of Christianity's plagiarism of Zoroastrianism comes from the same dualistic notions of a good god fighting an evil dragon. Christianity simply changed the dragons name from Ahriman to Satan, but the same story of the final battle in Revelation is virtually identical to the Zoroastrian version. Great war in heaven, dragons and his angels fight the good angels, chief good angel defeats dragon, binds him and casts him in an abyss, after many years dragon escapes, fights again and then put into the lake of fire. Do you really think this is a coincidence? Zoroastrianism is much older, and the Jews returned from Babylon with many of its ideas."

........I am actually inclined to agree with Draconic Chronicler here. To me it is obvious this ancient religion did have an influence on the Israelites. They were obviously aware of it. It is the same region, after all. In 586 BCE it is clear they were living amidst the Persians, and because they no longer had their temple in exile, some of their practices changed. As he said, there are many parallells between the two religions. Looking at it in a broader sense, even, in the context of history AS A WHOLE, most cultures do become influenced by those that they are surrounded by. Cultural integration and infusion of beliefs and practices typically take place. I think it would be a gross insight to say there was no influence there.

Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a thousand faces:

"Persian belief was reorganized by the prophet Zarathushtra according to a strict dualism of good and evil principles, light and dark, angels and devils. This crisis profoundly affected not only the Persians, but also the subject Hebrew beliefs, and thereby (centuries later) Christianity."

To the OP I think there is a battle between angels and demons, but only as a sort of positive and negative influence on the material plane, AS IT PERTAINS TO US, i.e. that angels and demons, yes, can influence our actions. Think of how a parasite attaches itself to a host. Such is the same with the influence of demons. The parasite (demon) finds a host attracted to our own misdeeds, or, more accurately our karma. Karma created by negative action would attract and draw in more negative influences; demons. The reverse would be true of angels. I believe everyone has personal spirit guides, or guardian angels. They battle for YOUR SPIRIT. That is the battle, really. Not a literal war between the two. That war is already over, the Christ has ended that; and in no way is there a yin and yang dualist nature, or more relevantly, two equal gods, one good, the other bad. Yes, I believe in the Zoroastrian influence, but the Israelites knew where to draw the line. To me, it is idiotic to think of a good and evil god, because were that true, then essentially what you have is the chaos theory in a spiritual package. Thought is the force behind matter. And thought, in its essence is pure and good, as is the nature of God. So evil, then, merely is a by-product of what is good, an absence, a contrary position, largely the result of free will. Evil is not an entity unto itself, but rather, a turning away from what is good (God). Therefore, evil, cannnot, nor will ever, be able to defeat the First.

The battleground, then, is for the human soul, see? We can move towards or away from God.......and these entities are drawn to these movements. And you have to think of the various planes of existence in the form of layers. Layer one is the material plane, but surrounding it, enveloping it really, is the first or lowest of the spiritual realm. It is in this realm closest to the material plane that angels and demons wage war for the souls of man. It is also the plane where ghosts exist, and people who have had OBE's often see. It is the first realm we will see when we die. Angels and demons are not a part of it, but go to it, to be involved WITH US. Hence the Watchers and like concepts.

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John from Lowell
To the OP I think there is a battle between angels and demons, but only as a sort of positive and negative influence on the material plane, AS IT PERTAINS TO US, i.e. that angels and demons, yes, can influence our actions. Think of how a parasite attaches itself to a host. Such is the same with the influence of demons. The parasite (demon) finds a host attracted to our own misdeeds, or, more accurately our karma. Karma created by negative action would attract and draw in more negative influences; demons. The reverse would be true of angels. I believe everyone has personal spirit guides, or guardian angels. They battle for YOUR SPIRIT. That is the battle, really. Not a literal war between the two. That war is already over, the Christ has ended that; and in no way is there a yin and yang dualist nature, or more relevantly, two equal gods, one good, the other bad. Yes, I believe in the Zoroastrian influence, but the Israelites knew where to draw the line. To me, it is idiotic to think of a good and evil god, because were that true, then essentially what you have is the chaos theory in a spiritual package. Thought is the force behind matter. And thought, in its essence is pure and good, as is the nature of God. So evil, then, merely is a by-product of what is good, an absence, a contrary position, largely the result of free will. Evil is not an entity unto itself, but rather, a turning away from what is good (God). Therefore, evil, cannnot, nor will ever, be able to defeat the First.

The battleground, then, is for the human soul, see? We can move towards or away from God.......and these entities are drawn to these movements. And you have to think of the various planes of existence in the form of layers. Layer one is the material plane, but surrounding it, enveloping it really, is the first or lowest of the spiritual realm. It is in this realm closest to the material plane that angels and demons wage war for the souls of man. It is also the plane where ghosts exist, and people who have had OBE's often see. It is the first realm we will see when we die. Angels and demons are not a part of it, but go to it, to be involved WITH US. Hence the Watchers and like concepts.

The battle between good and evil has always been a subject of interest to me. I agree that there is a battle of sorts, however I do not see it as conflict that puts the eternal soul at risk.

The God of unconditional love does not set conditions for love. The human is either loved without condition or he/she is not. So if the war is not for the souls of man than what exactly is going on. The concept that evil is merely a by-product of somrthing good, a contrary position largely the result of free will, then this becomes close to what I see as the reality.

What if the battle is actually for the minds of man - their reality perceptions? What is life were kind of like an energy game for awareness potentials? The material plane is the human perception plane. When the essence of the human can be seen as divine, the game takes on another dimension of reality where human redemption was never necessary.

John

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