Lt_Ripley Posted June 21, 2008 #1 Share Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) 5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep. Matthew 10:5-10 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24) Gentile - One who is not of the Jewish faith or is of a non-Jewish nation. then what are 'christians '? Not jews nor belonging to any lost sheep of Israel , but gentiles. So logically the ones that Jesus is speaking for are todays Messianic Jews. People who are Jewish and believe Jesus is the Messiah. if this is not so ...... then are the words above not Jesus's ? or other text not his ?? Edited June 21, 2008 by Lt_Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragohunter Posted June 21, 2008 #2 Share Posted June 21, 2008 The first book of the Bible, Genesis, says that God chose Abraham to make into a great nation The descendants of Abraham, the Jews, would establish the nation of Israel to become a people of God's own possession. Doesn't this preferential treatment contradict the benevolent nature of God? How can God be perfect and preferential at the same time? The common assumption of many skeptics is that God chose the Jews just to give them some sort of preferential treatment. In reality, the Bible says that the Jews were selected to be a blessing to all the nations of the world. In fact, the same passages that says that God chose the Jews also says that God does not show partiality and commands the Jews to love other peoples.The Old Testament indicates that the Jews were not prospered because of their righteousness, since they were "a stubborn people." However, the main way that the Jews were to be a blessing to all the peoples of the earth was that the Messiah was to be born through the line of David. Beginning with the third chapter of Genesis, the Old Testament tells how the Messiah was to come as the Savior of the world, These prophecies specifically state that the Messiah was to be God in human flesh, who would be the Son of God. The Messiah would establish the new covenant and would die as the ultimate sacrifice for the sins of all people. Being chosen as the people through whom God would send the Messiah was no walk in the park for the Jews. God expected His chosen people to strictly follow His moral laws and not follow the evil ways of their neighbors. Because they failed to be faithful to God, the Jews were scattered among the nations, where they "profaned the name of the Lord." However, after their 70 year exile in Babylon, the God gathered the Jews back to Israel in preparation for the coming Messiah. There is a number of skeptics complain that it is unfair for God to choose the Jews as His people over all others. Although it would be unfair for God to show partiality to one people group, this is not what was meant when the Bible said that God chose the Jewish people. The Bible indicates that God chose the Jewish people as the people through whom He would send the Messiah. Being chosen did not always bring great blessings, since the Jews were held to a higher level of accountability, and were judged for their failures. The Bible makes it clear that God does not show partiality, since He created all people. He commands His people to behave likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 21, 2008 #3 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Did Jesus only come for the Jews ?, seems so no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted June 21, 2008 #4 Share Posted June 21, 2008 5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep. Matthew 10:5-10 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24) Gentile - One who is not of the Jewish faith or is of a non-Jewish nation. then what are 'christians '? Not jews nor belonging to any lost sheep of Israel , but gentiles. So logically the ones that Jesus is speaking for are todays Messianic Jews. People who are Jewish and believe Jesus is the Messiah. if this is not so ...... then are the words above not Jesus's ? or other text not his ?? Let's say Jesus did come only to the Jews, does that change anything? As far as christian theology, Paul is a Jew, and in the OT the Jews are God's "light unto the nations". Thus, if Jesus comes to the Jews, and the Jews are a "light unto all nations", than Jesus came for everyone through the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainpoint Posted June 21, 2008 #5 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Let's say Jesus did come only to the Jews, does that change anything? As far as christian theology, Paul is a Jew, and in the OT the Jews are God's "light unto the nations". Thus, if Jesus comes to the Jews, and the Jews are a "light unto all nations", than Jesus came for everyone through the Jews. This is exactly wrong with the world today elevating some people to superior god like status than others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted June 21, 2008 #6 Share Posted June 21, 2008 This is exactly wrong with the world today elevating some people to superior god like status than others No one is elevating them. Being "chosen" doesn't mean they're better. Technically everyone is "chosen" for something. The Jews were chosen to be a light unto the nations because God gave the Torah to them. It is their job to spread the knowledge found in Torah. However, non-Jews also are "chosen" for specific purposes. They're just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted June 21, 2008 Author #7 Share Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) This is exactly wrong with the world today elevating some people to superior god like status than others exactly ... just like christianity tends to think it's the 'right ' religion . that people need a saviour. sad. very sad. just like any religion that thinks that. but again -------- I'm talking about the text of 'what jesus said' - clearly it demonstrates what he was preaching was not ment for gentiles . how does one get around those words ? ignore them ? make an excuse ? Edited June 21, 2008 by Lt_Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #8 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Christ had to follow the rules. The rules stated that well he was on Earth the only ones he could try to reach were the jews. Oh wait he broke that rule twice. It falls into the catagory of the the first shall be last, and the last shall be first. The Jews were the first to recieve and will be the last to accept him. although there have been some Jews from the beginning that have accepted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood1026 Posted June 22, 2008 #9 Share Posted June 22, 2008 The Jewish people believe that they are Gods chosen people so they believe that God did send Jesus to save them & them only. Unless your God I highly doubt that anyone knows for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #10 Share Posted June 22, 2008 The Jewish people believe that they are Gods chosen people so they believe that God did send Jesus to save them & them only. Unless your God I highly doubt that anyone knows for sure. Didn't you just argue with me that he wasn't the saver from the jewish point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted June 22, 2008 Author #11 Share Posted June 22, 2008 (edited) Christ had to follow the rules. The rules stated that well he was on Earth the only ones he could try to reach were the jews. Oh wait he broke that rule twice. It falls into the catagory of the the first shall be last, and the last shall be first. The Jews were the first to recieve and will be the last to accept him. although there have been some Jews from the beginning that have accepted him. where did you get that 'rule '?? get it or not jesus says he came only for the jews and tells the disiples to not preach to gentiles. I'm speaking of the 'text' of supposedly jesus 's own words in the original post...... true or not. jesus say them or not ? if Jesus didn't say them how can you be sure jesus said any of them ? that there was a man named jesus who said anything at all ? or do you dismiss what you don't like and keep the rest ? Edited June 22, 2008 by Lt_Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood1026 Posted June 22, 2008 #12 Share Posted June 22, 2008 (edited) Didn't you just argue with me that he wasn't the saver from the jewish point of view. I haven't been on a lot here latley so I'm not sure. But the Jews I do know believe that they are Gods Chosen people. They believe that God will save them first being that Jesus was a Jew himself. Edited June 22, 2008 by norwood1026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #13 Share Posted June 22, 2008 where did you get that 'rule '?? get it or not jesus says he came only for the jews and tells the disiples to not preach to gentiles. I'm speaking of the 'text' of supposedly jesus 's own words in the original post...... true or not. jesus say them or not ? if Jesus didn't say them how can you be sure jesus said any of them ? that there was a man named jesus who said anything at all ? or do you dismiss what you don't like and keep the rest ? I know what your talking about. Read my post one more time. The key is that according to the rules Christ and followers could only go to the Jews well he was on the Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted June 22, 2008 Author #14 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I know what your talking about. Read my post one more time. The key is that according to the rules Christ and followers could only go to the Jews well he was on the Earth. where did jesus say that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelly metal Posted June 22, 2008 #15 Share Posted June 22, 2008 jesus said 'love thy neighbour as thyself.' not 'love thy jew as thyself.' he was an example to all. he wasnt here to teach of or within religion he was here to teach everyone and anyone with ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #16 Share Posted June 22, 2008 where did jesus say that ? When the Samaritan lady came to him and asked him to heal her or her kid(i don't remember which). He told her that he was only here for the jews. She said that even a dog will lay under it's masters table hoping for scrapes. He said she was right and did as she had asked him. Then later when Paul was told in a dream that eating pork was ok if God said it was clean. jesus said 'love thy neighbour as thyself.' not 'love thy jew as thyself.' he was an example to all. he wasnt here to teach of or within religion he was here to teach everyone and anyone with ears. true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood1026 Posted June 22, 2008 #17 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Regardless with Jesus being a Jew it would make sence that they would be God's chosen people. I think a lot of Christian have trouble beliving that God would play favorites. Galatians read as though it takes about all races being children of God but then saying " If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." So it's not really clear the whole verse reads as follows. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:28-29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #18 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Regardless with Jesus being a Jew it would make sence that they would be God's chosen people. I think a lot of Christian have trouble beliving that God would play favorites. Galatians read as though it takes about all races being children of God but then saying " If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." So it's not really clear the whole verse reads as follows. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:28-29 Adoption. Also the chosen people were chosen to bring God's blessing(christ) to the whole world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood1026 Posted June 22, 2008 #19 Share Posted June 22, 2008 (edited) Adoption. Also the chosen people were chosen to bring God's blessing(christ) to the whole world. No offense but you not a mormon? Which by some people your not even a Christian which if I am not mistaken your bible reads VERy differently then the regular bible. I'm not saying that your bible or your beliefs are wrong just different. Edited June 22, 2008 by norwood1026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #20 Share Posted June 22, 2008 No offense but you not a mormon? Which by some people your not even a Christian which if I am not mistaken your bible reads VERy differently then the regular bible. I'm not saying that your bibke or your beliefs are wrong just different. We use the King James version of the Bible. We also use the Book of Mormon, if you like the bible for the new world. We also use the doctrine and convenient, The bible for the modern day. As I have said God hasn't stopped sending prophets to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood1026 Posted June 22, 2008 #21 Share Posted June 22, 2008 We use the King James version of the Bible. We also use the Book of Mormon, if you like the bible for the new world. We also use the doctrine and convenient, The bible for the modern day. As I have said God hasn't stopped sending prophets to the world. So how can you read two very different bibles & get the same thing out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #22 Share Posted June 22, 2008 So how can you read two very different bibles & get the same thing out of it? They tell the same story from two points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood1026 Posted June 22, 2008 #23 Share Posted June 22, 2008 They tell the same story from two points of view. UM maybe but I still do not see how they are the same from what I remember about Mormon belifes they are not even close to mainstream Christiany but that's another topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted June 22, 2008 #24 Share Posted June 22, 2008 UM maybe but I still do not see how they are the same from what I remember about Mormon belifes they are not even close to mainstream Christiany but that's another topic. Just because it is mainstream doesn't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood1026 Posted June 22, 2008 #25 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Just because it is mainstream doesn't make it right. There are a butt load of Christians out there who would disagree with you on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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