Verifiable Evidence of Survival

[Nile_Shaman]

I was thinking about the EVPs and rare full body photos or manifestations of phenomenon, and why they bother me.

When we know who died in a given haunted location, and have relatives around or available, do they recognize the voices captured? Do the faces ever match up with known pictures when alive? I've not heard of this being checked or ever verified, and would like to know some cases where it has been.

If a spirit can say something like "why don't they want us here?", why can it not say "I am Mary Jane and died in Tucson" ?

That something(s) is there we can't quite see or determine, I am reasonably sure of. But, what it really is eludes me.

Does anyone else wonder about this? What ideas have you had about it? Do you know of cases that have been verified as at least accurate to the deceased?

And what about these spurious entities who seem to just set up shop in a building they had no link to before? What do they even need houses for anyway? If they want people to stay away, why aren't they out roaming wastelands or something?

I collect data, but the logic eludes me. I just really have trouble believing in longterm Dead roaming the planet, and would like to know how others deal with these questions.

Thanks,

NS

[JustNormal]

Hi NS, Good questions, unfortunately I dont think there are any true answers. The biggest issue is, we dont know the consciousness of a spirit. Do they think, cry, or even care about their life they once lived, or are they in a state of limbo just wandering around. My theory is, they are ALL around us, and some of us sense, see, or hear from them, but we cannot have a 2 way conversation with them, which leaves us to wonder. Even EVP's we can hear a spirit talking, but who are they talking to and about and what exactly do they mean? I just go on the theory that they are out there, come and go, and there is no way we will ever be assured as to why, who, and where, till we join them..JN

[Nile_Shaman]

Even EVP's we can hear a spirit talking, but who are they talking to and about and what exactly do they mean?

Hey JN, thanks for posting

I think it was in the second visit of TAPS to St Augustine where in one part they figured out that the hearing of a female voice saying "help me" was not directed at them, but to the other entities there when they got to chasing it up the steps in the first visit.

I hear over and over, PIs assuring ghosts they mean them no harm and bring toys for kid ghosts and stuff, but what is even up with that? Why would a dead human being fear living ones? We cannot touch them, grab them, injure them.

I have heard EVPs of ghosts complaining to be left alone, or saying things like "why don't they leave us alone?". If they'd ever been human, they'd know the curiosity and wondering, I'd think.

I *have* seen deceased friends and relatives, rarely. They say their piece, they look like they did in life except for a degree of transparency. They go. They don't haunt or knock to let me know a durn thing. I have never gotten an orb in any picture I can recall. I don't comprehend that if a deceased person came back, they'd have to be a ball of light, despite the fact some others seem to be partial full body.

It just doesn't add up. Maybe it is more than one thing, and perhaps we're very wrong to believe we're chasing dead people. Perhaps some are, perhaps something else is going on too. I mean, we have a ton of other life forms in our world here. What if there are tons of them in that dimension, too?

Or what if the dead of many worlds can mingle freely? Do they look alike, if so, or not?

And why do they never look or sound like they did in life, in all this evidence?

Sorry for the rant, it just all bothers me

Barring visits shortly after Death, I think I do not believe in ghosts at all, anymore, if I ever really did. *thinks hard on the past for a minute* OK, my great Uncle Bill never did show up to my knowledge after his death, until he came one night to my dorm room when I was in the military. That would be *counts fingers* in 1982, about 6 years after he died. It was totally him there, and he came expressly to tell me something that relieved a terrible sense of guilt I'd been carrying for some years over something I'd inheritted from him and lost. Very specific, very very real, and then he was gone. I woke the next morning and believed it was a true message, however, I also assumed it was actually a dream, until my roomie, Liz, asked me who the man was I'd had in the room last night and had been talking with.

I about fell out and actually have no recall of me talking. I heard what he said, the brief message about it, a few sentences at most, and then he was gone. She said no, she woke up and I was talking to this very tall, big man, who seemed mostly a dark shadow to her in the dark and dim light, and she just rolled back over and went to sleep again. That was my last Great Uncle, big, tall, always in black or nearly black excellently tailored suits and formal elegant clothing. He'd been a success in a previous age, when elegance and class was the way of success. That he'd come in a dream was fine with me. That he'd actually been there and been seen by Liz rather blo9ws me away to this day. But, Uncle Bill had a history and if anyone could come back and know such a thing as my worry and sense of guilt - it would be him.

I also saw my partner, Al, the night after his funeral, but have told that tale here before. He and I spoke for just a few exchanges, to the point of an issue between us, and then he was gone. I have seen a few souls at their death location while investigating, but not that many. Maybe, oh, at a third of the scenes. The rest, no soul was around.

That is it.

With all my heart, JN, I agree that we cannot know much in facts about this field. In the end, all we know is what we personally KNOW. This is some of what I know as regards the Dead. Perhaps we read here to find out what others KNOW, in hopes of filling in some blanks for ourselves....

NS

[Radian]

Does anyone else wonder about this? What ideas have you had about it? Do you know of cases that have been verified as at least accurate to the deceased?

I'll have to dig it up but I remember there was one case, in particular, where a man in England was taking pics in a park, an older woman (spook) appeared in the background. Come to find out, when the pic was shown on the local news, some people came forward and stated that that pic was of their grandmother/mother who either drowned in the pond, or was very attached to the area... I can't remember the exact details.. but it does somewhat answer your question.

and I remember that the pic of the guys mother in question did look like the old lady that appeared in that pic..

[Nile_Shaman]

I remember that the pic of the guys mother in question did look like the old lady that appeared in that pic..

Most excellent! Thanks, Sunni .

NS

[Radian]

I hear over and over, PIs assuring ghosts they mean them no harm and bring toys for kid ghosts and stuff, but what is even up with that? Why would a dead human being fear living ones? We cannot touch them, grab them, injure them.

I don't buy into that 'give them a toy business..' They wouldn't have any reason or so I would think to want a toy.. They have escaped that plain of existence and wouldn't feel the need to associate with such objects any longer.. imo

As far as these things sharing our existence, and mingling with us.. wanting their privacy.. I feel they walk or roam in the same terrain as we do, but as many of us are not aware of their presence, they are not aware of ours..

& regarding capturing these statements on tape & the question of why aren't they answering our questions more direct.. We've only gotten to the tip of such things as far as EVPs are concerned. For all we know, they are corresponding back and forth with us, we just haven't met the technical criteria to capture such things in detail.. just a thought..

[Radian]

Most excellent! Thanks, Sunni .

NS

LOL, do YOU remember that??

I'll try to dig it up..

[Radian]

Here's the link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/southerncounties/comm.../florence.shtml

When Chris Petty and his brother visited Sheffield Park and took the photo, in which they claim to have captured a ghostly image, they had no idea what they had started. We have uncovered a tragic tale which may shed some light on the controversial picture. (cont)

Edited June 22, 2008 by Shankpin

[JustNormal]

Hey JN, thanks for posting

I think it was in the second visit of TAPS to St Augustine where in one part they figured out that the hearing of a female voice saying "help me" was not directed at them, but to the other entities there when they got to chasing it up the steps in the first visit.

I hear over and over, PIs assuring ghosts they mean them no harm and bring toys for kid ghosts and stuff, but what is even up with that? Why would a dead human being fear living ones? We cannot touch them, grab them, injure them.

I have heard EVPs of ghosts complaining to be left alone, or saying things like "why don't they leave us alone?". If they'd ever been human, they'd know the curiosity and wondering, I'd think.

I *have* seen deceased friends and relatives, rarely. They say their piece, they look like they did in life except for a degree of transparency. They go. They don't haunt or knock to let me know a durn thing. I have never gotten an orb in any picture I can recall. I don't comprehend that if a deceased person came back, they'd have to be a ball of light, despite the fact some others seem to be partial full body.

It just doesn't add up. Maybe it is more than one thing, and perhaps we're very wrong to believe we're chasing dead people. Perhaps some are, perhaps something else is going on too. I mean, we have a ton of other life forms in our world here. What if there are tons of them in that dimension, too?

Or what if the dead of many worlds can mingle freely? Do they look alike, if so, or not?

And why do they never look or sound like they did in life, in all this evidence?

Sorry for the rant, it just all bothers me

Barring visits shortly after Death, I think I do not believe in ghosts at all, anymore, if I ever really did. *thinks hard on the past for a minute* OK, my great Uncle Bill never did show up to my knowledge after his death, until he came one night to my dorm room when I was in the military. That would be *counts fingers* in 1982, about 6 years after he died. It was totally him there, and he came expressly to tell me something that relieved a terrible sense of guilt I'd been carrying for some years over something I'd inheritted from him and lost. Very specific, very very real, and then he was gone. I woke the next morning and believed it was a true message, however, I also assumed it was actually a dream, until my roomie, Liz, asked me who the man was I'd had in the room last night and had been talking with.

I about fell out and actually have no recall of me talking. I heard what he said, the brief message about it, a few sentences at most, and then he was gone. She said no, she woke up and I was talking to this very tall, big man, who seemed mostly a dark shadow to her in the dark and dim light, and she just rolled back over and went to sleep again. That was my last Great Uncle, big, tall, always in black or nearly black excellently tailored suits and formal elegant clothing. He'd been a success in a previous age, when elegance and class was the way of success. That he'd come in a dream was fine with me. That he'd actually been there and been seen by Liz rather blo9ws me away to this day. But, Uncle Bill had a history and if anyone could come back and know such a thing as my worry and sense of guilt - it would be him.

I also saw my partner, Al, the night after his funeral, but have told that tale here before. He and I spoke for just a few exchanges, to the point of an issue between us, and then he was gone. I have seen a few souls at their death location while investigating, but not that many. Maybe, oh, at a third of the scenes. The rest, no soul was around.

That is it.

With all my heart, JN, I agree that we cannot know much in facts about this field. In the end, all we know is what we personally KNOW. This is some of what I know as regards the Dead. Perhaps we read here to find out what others KNOW, in hopes of filling in some blanks for ourselves....

NS

Gosh I wish I could give you an answer. For example, last week I had a young girl spirit around me, whose name is Ashley, but I dont know what she wanted, or who she belongs to, its frustrating. She was 5 or 6 and died of Cancer. I DO know if we are sensitive we attract spirits from all over, but sadly, who are they and what do they want? The thought of our souls wandering aimlessly lost, is very unsettling to put it mildly. But I absolutely believe because I've lived it, seen it, done it. I would love to think we pass on and rest in peace, and maybe we do, but we have the ability to visit loved ones, psychics, or just show ourselves for a reason. I know what you mean about chasing them around, which seems rather cruel, however there is a reason for everything and if they dont want to surface, they dont. I just think there is another dimension, where they reside, and do whatever they choose, when they choose. What has bothered me the most is, why dont they show up on photos? I mean some have, but not enough considering the amount of accounts, then again maybe they are transparent and we cannot see them? The possibilities are endless..I have always wanted to see my deceased brother, but NOPE, just in dreams. We cannot make things happen, like ghost hunting, it just happens on their terms, and on their time. JN

[Nile_Shaman]

I don't buy into that 'give them a toy business..' They wouldn't have any reason or so I would think to want a toy.. They have escaped that plain of existence and wouldn't feel the need to associate with such objects any longer.. imo

It reminds me of those spontaneous little memorials that people do in front yards of violence or deaths beside the highway. About ten miles from my house is the home of a child who died by being hit by a car there years ago. To this day, the family maintains a big teddy bear (stuffed kind) hanging on their mailbox for some reason. Perhaps it is for feelings of the living more than any dead people. I know a Mambo who held the opinion that we do this sort of thing as a subconcious "treaty" with the Dead when we do it. Sort of a "here is a gift, now don't get me/do cooperate with me" kinda impetus. There might be something to that... might not be, but it sounds like it is the sort of thing that could lurk deep in our psyche.

& regarding capturing these statements on tape & the question of why aren't they answering our questions more direct.. We've only gotten to the tip of such things as far as EVPs are concerned. For all we know, they are corresponding back and forth with us, we just haven't met the technical criteria to capture such things in detail.. just a thought..

One thing I always thought was that they are much faster than us. It is like they vibrate at a much faster .... something. I have been interested in recent mentions now and then of EVPs being checked at faster speeds and some interesting finds. Can't quote anything, but I have seen a few mentions along those lines. I don't know that they are ghosts, but whatever it is, I think this may be true.

Thanks for your thoughts

NS

[JustNormal]

Here's the link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/southerncounties/comm.../florence.shtml

When Chris Petty and his brother visited Sheffield Park and took the photo, in which they claim to have captured a ghostly image, they had no idea what they had started. We have uncovered a tragic tale which may shed some light on the controversial picture. (cont)

WOW thats cool. So what some would call a camera issue, motion blur is truly a spirit..Thanks..JN

[Guardian Angel of Fire]

I was thinking about the EVPs and rare full body photos or manifestations of phenomenon, and why they bother me.

When we know who died in a given haunted location, and have relatives around or available, do they recognize the voices captured? Do the faces ever match up with known pictures when alive? I've not heard of this being checked or ever verified, and would like to know some cases where it has been.

If a spirit can say something like "why don't they want us here?", why can it not say "I am Mary Jane and died in Tucson" ?

That something(s) is there we can't quite see or determine, I am reasonably sure of. But, what it really is eludes me.

Does anyone else wonder about this? What ideas have you had about it? Do you know of cases that have been verified as at least accurate to the deceased?

And what about these spurious entities who seem to just set up shop in a building they had no link to before? What do they even need houses for anyway? If they want people to stay away, why aren't they out roaming wastelands or something?

I collect data, but the logic eludes me. I just really have trouble believing in longterm Dead roaming the planet, and would like to know how others deal with these questions.

Thanks,

NS

Ive had EVP's of strange things myself....the wierdest one that i had was when we were using the ouija board and talking to duke (who is a bad spirit but now on good terms), and basically at one point something said "Help" and another voice demanded this "Tell them to stop" now what gets me is how intellictual this EVP is, along with a few others that infact are quiet strange.

I think just like us in life we need a place in whch we can take shelter and call home, i think that they are the same way too, those that have no correlation to the house want somewhere to call home and they come to like the house, i think like ghosts the "Soul" has a personality in which like we feel emotions i believe they too feel emotions as well thus that they like the place they enter, maybe because how the home is designed, size, the people that live there....some that haunt the place and cause harm i believe were spirits who originate in the home it'self. Now a lot of people often say that a lot of hauntings start to happen after a house i remodeled or stuff is changed around, so thus they become more aware of their surroundings and when they notice it's not the way it once was it causes them to stir up and thus haunt the people because they become enraged in anger for the house being changed around, so i think that they have like personalities like we do living.

I saw an episode of Dr. Who about shadows in this library that eat the flesh of people, or anything that moves, and when this machine they are wearing that lets them speak to one another, when they are killed it's activated while they speak to outside their helmet, so soon enough they become dead and then are going through somthing called Ghosting which they dont relize where they are and why they cant see a single thing, so then they end up soon enough repeating themselves on this talking thing and so they become a risidual haunting, which makes me think, it's like a memory imprint around us, it prints into the world around us thus giving feelings to others and causing somethings that people think they see just cause they sense the emotion.

Thats just what i think.

[seax]

I was thinking about the EVPs and rare full body photos or manifestations of phenomenon, and why they bother me.

And what about these spurious entities who seem to just set up shop in a building they had no link to before? What do they even need houses for anyway? If they want people to stay away, why aren't they out roaming wastelands or something?

I collect data, but the logic eludes me. I just really have trouble believing in longterm Dead roaming the planet, and would like to know how others deal with these questions.

Thanks,

NS

Shaman I have wondered about the same thing. I would think the human spirit would be more than hanging around an old house and walking down a hallway everynight for eternity. I would think the spirit would be "worth more" than that. I saw an appartition once on the road 100 yards from my house. So far as I know no one was killed there. why was it there? An explanation given to me on another thread made some sense, maybe they aren't normal human spirits, maybe demons. Maybe something put here to remind us or to scare us of death and to create a question in our mind of what religion has taught us. Maybe, to give us doubt. Just a thought.

best regards,

seax

[Ginger]

I believe that these things will never be able to be explained with just one answer. It's been said that we are only at the tip of the iceberg in understanding all of these events. I believe that we are in the Arctic and we are just at the tip of one out of a hundred icebergs. Every time that someone has a theory about how this "other world" may work it can be shot down pretty quickly by a new theory that will seem to fit perfect. Then a little later another theory will come and knock that out of the playing field.

I believe that it is going to be a combination of multiple possibilities. Which one easy example is a residual haunting vs intelligent haunting. We can see how things can differentiate here and in either "haunting" we still truly have no idea what is going on. Also whenever we think we have all of the answers, someone is going to change the question. Then we are right at square one again. In our quest for knowledge we have to ask ourselves if we are going to accept the infinite or is there an answer for everything? Now with that, it normally leads into religion but this thread is not for that.

However, how can religion not be brought up when we have to ask whether or not ghosts,entities, or anything of that nature, if we ask whether or not these are former dead individuals? Is that not the reason we have religion? No I am not by any means questioning anyones belief on their religion at all. But if we are asking these types of questions, we have to ask ourself a question first and that question is, "Why am I asking this question?" If we can answer that question first then we can continue on our journey. Because once we know why we will know what to avoid to avoid making our research and thought process non-biased. If you are looking for a certain answer or you truly want a certain answer then you need to stop and take a break. You need to ready yourself to rid yourself of anything that may make your quest biased in anyway. No this does not mean that you have to rid yourself of emotion because we are human aren't we? But once you are ready to truly seek out an answer you will accept the right answer. And once you can accept the right answer, you can accept another right answer, and so on. If it is something that can not be solved with one answer, you need to be ready to accept all of the right answers. If you keep pure to yourself during your journey those answers will come to you. We have to crawl before we walk. And right now the majority of us are trying to do a triathlon when we haven't even come out of the womb yet.

[seax]

You're right Jaida,

we are an inquisitive species, and many questions we ask will probably not be answered here on this earth. Perhaps if we knew all the answers this life would have no meaning. Maybe, since death is part of life we have to make the whole journey.

best regards,

seax

Edited June 22, 2008 by seax

[someoldlady]

I have posted a picture of a raindrop with a face on the edge of it that looks just like my mother. I got dissed for it, of course, but I fully believe my mother showed up on a raindrop on purpose. She LOVED storms, and I was out on the porch watching the rain just like she would have done. One of the songs we played at her funeral was "Who'll Stop The Rain" by CCR.

[Nile_Shaman]

You miss my point, Jaida.

If one believes the religious (for me, Christian) viewpoint, then ghosts are not even possible and do not exist. You die, you experience sleep, and then wake up for the judgement, basically. Or go direct if hell is your endpoint. Lazarus asked, begged to go back to warn his brothers and God said nope, you've had every chance on Earth to hear and know the truth, and it's too late, now.

I am looking at the evidence presented out there, and the beliefs of many PI's and related folks and it does not add up to anything logical to me. This is not about spiritual questions at all for me, it is a logical deficiency, and I am asking the questions to see if anyone else has thought about it and found answers to some of the questions. Is it actually ghosts we perceive or record? Is it not? Is it maybe a mix of things and we haven't reached the point yet to know that?

No religion or spirituality about it, in this topic, for me. When I die, I expect that what happens will happen, and that's all. I am not worried about it. I do figure we think we know but like almost everything, we'll be off . Beyond maybe checking in with a few people I love, I have no intention of hanging around here if that is an option.

I am questioning the so-called facts and assumptions made about "ghosts".

That there are entities out there, I believe. I just am not convinced we have dead people floating about. I don't think we are asking the right questions in the pursuit of information on the assorted phenomenon usually assumed to be ghosts. So far in this thread I have seen two cases which would seem to confirm that there is verifiable cases of the Dead turning up. Versus hundreds I have read that do not, actually, prove anything of the sort verifiably. Not to me, anyway.

NS

[seax]

I have posted a picture of a raindrop with a face on the edge of it that looks just like my mother. I got dissed for it, of course, but I fully believe my mother showed up on a raindrop on purpose. She LOVED storms, and I was out on the porch watching the rain just like she would have done. One of the songs we played at her funeral was "Who'll Stop The Rain" by CCR.

I love to listen to CCR. Your mom must have been fine person.

best regards,

seax

[Radian]

I have posted a picture of a raindrop with a face on the edge of it that looks just like my mother. I got dissed for it, of course, but I fully believe my mother showed up on a raindrop on purpose. She LOVED storms, and I was out on the porch watching the rain just like she would have done. One of the songs we played at her funeral was "Who'll Stop The Rain" by CCR.

AH, I loved that photo!! and that song is probably one of my all time favorites, ever..

(it's the first song I learned to play on the bass)

Edited June 22, 2008 by Shankpin

[Nile_Shaman]

I have posted a picture of a raindrop with a face on the edge of it that looks just like my mother. I got dissed for it, of course, but I fully believe my mother showed up on a raindrop on purpose. She LOVED storms, and I was out on the porch watching the rain just like she would have done. One of the songs we played at her funeral was "Who'll Stop The Rain" by CCR.

I think I recall that thread, actually. That was a year or more ago, wasn't it?

To me, that would be "Oh, interesting, now what does it mean and how does it change or confirm what I thought was true before about the Dead?" if I'd gotten that picture. If you could see her face plainly, then it beats these hazes and mists being claimed as ghosts, to me. I just am not sure it is what we suppose in most cases.

Thanks for your reminder of that thread

NS

[Ginger]

Yea, NS I was just saying it's not going to be a simple answer. Because things will end up being broken down into numerous categories. Even verifiable evidence may not be verifiable is what I'm trying to say. What we think may be evidence of survival may or may not be. It will come down to the individual to truly know. And the only way to truly know is to know that you don't know.

[jonny b]

I recall where a fighter squadren of guys had there picture taken, and one of the men who had died and was not there for the photo showed up in it anyways.Thay all recocnized him and new that he was already dead at the time of the photo.I actually believe that there are spirits out there that tend to mimic perfectly what another human being was like in life and possibly after death.Right down to the thought patterns that a human who was once alive would have had,as well as there personality.

[Radian]

I'd like to see that one, Jonny..

*add

I remember another photo... It was of a fire or after a fire in a building, and inside the building it appears to look like a girl standing there looking out.. The story goes that the girl who was looking out had actually died in that fire ...

Edited June 22, 2008 by Shankpin

[JustNormal]

I have posted a picture of a raindrop with a face on the edge of it that looks just like my mother. I got dissed for it, of course, but I fully believe my mother showed up on a raindrop on purpose. She LOVED storms, and I was out on the porch watching the rain just like she would have done. One of the songs we played at her funeral was "Who'll Stop The Rain" by CCR.

Dont forget, Mom hangs out at my house quite often and gives me messages for you. Her presence has been validated. I love MOM..((SOL)) JN

[jonny b]

I'd like to see that one, Jonny..

*add

I remember another photo... It was of a fire or after a fire in a building, and inside the building it appears to look like a girl standing there looking out.. The story goes that the girl who was looking out had actually died in that fire ...

I guess I can try and spend some time looking for the photo,but, where I actually saw it was on tv, and I believe they were pilots from world war 2.They were all old at the time of the interview, but they were positive about what had happened, and in the photo, the person was almost as solid as they were, and he was a bit behind all of them as I remember it.Not in formation with the rest of them.Of coarse the photo was way before the computer age as it was an old photo from the 40's so I do not know how likely it was to have been a fake,but I like to take thier word for it, especially those that defended freedom and were in the biggest war the world has ever seen.I just believe that those old timers have a great deal of integrity, and I have alot of respect for those vetrans,as I do with all veterans actually.anyways the photo was cool, Ill see if I can track it down.