2+2=4 equates a certainty of god

[Marcus Aurelius]

this is a beautiful post and this philososphy shines through in all your posts... i concur the perosn you are also shines through and your fairness and grace and openess and tolerance speaks to me ..who cares the path you walk i can see you loud and clear and i am inspired by what i see.. ...(((HUGS)))

Thank you very much for the kind words; this truly means a lot to me. My worldview, simply put, is a very Buddhist one. Harmony, tolerance, these are the things of conscience that set us apart as a species, whether they originate from God or no is beside the point; because when we act contrary to this, be it in the name of self, or worse still, in the name of God, then we are out of alignment with Source. Its that simple.

Now, Omnaka, of course your first example, sadly, is commonplace. You know the debate rages between a 'secular' society vs. one of faith; but to me, its a moot point when both examples are morally bankrupt, and neither practice what they preach. In reality, it wouldn't matter either way if true values other than base material gain were brought on as the chief aim of a 'free' life. These people are fools, that you speak of here. I can't word it any other way. Knowledge begins with the surrender of attachment. I wish I could say I myself was better about this, but I'm GETTING better. Wiser to think that you own nothing, that it all belongs to God. If we only gratify animal needs of self, then we are no better than animals. But:

"happen to be honored to know just such people and not just a few...who quietly and humbly use thier lives for the greater good.. do not be fooled and confuse lack of god with lack of concern or compassion or proactiveness or humanitarianism.."

....I know a lot of these too. I am not exaggerating when I say I have seen many perfect atheists living more holy lives than religionists. In fact, a case can be made here, that in some senses, this almost more profound THAN being of a religion. You are doing these things JUST to be doing it, no hope of eternal reward or merit from it. I actually think this is one of the reasons for the atheist soul path, because, Omnaka, you can either be like that, clearing your karma with no faith at all, or....living those dark standards of which you pointed out. Actually to be in their position is a profound experience spirititually.

[+Sherapy]

Thank you very much for the kind words; this truly means a lot to me. My worldview, simply put, is a very Buddhist one. Harmony, tolerance, these are the things of conscience that set us apart as a species, whether they originate from God or no is beside the point; because when we act contrary to this, be it in the name of self, or worse still, in the name of God, then we are out of alignment with Source. Its that simple.

Now, Omnaka, of course your first example, sadly, is commonplace. You know the debate rages between a 'secular' society vs. one of faith; but to me, its a moot point when both examples are morally bankrupt, and neither practice what they preach. In reality, it wouldn't matter either way if true values other than base material gain were brought on as the chief aim of a 'free' life. These people are fools, that you speak of here. I can't word it any other way. Knowledge begins with the surrender of attachment. I wish I could say I myself was better about this, but I'm GETTING better. Wiser to think that you own nothing, that it all belongs to God. If we only gratify animal needs of self, then we are no better than animals. But:

"happen to be honored to know just such people and not just a few...who quietly and humbly use thier lives for the greater good.. do not be fooled and confuse lack of god with lack of concern or compassion or proactiveness or humanitarianism.."

....I know a lot of these too. I am not exaggerating when I say I have seen many perfect atheists living more holy lives than religionists. In fact, a case can be made here, that in some senses, this almost more profound THAN being of a religion. You are doing these things JUST to be doing it, no hope of eternal reward or merit from it. I actually think this is one of the reasons for the atheist soul path, because, Omnaka, you can either be like that, clearing your karma with no faith at all, or....living those dark standards of which you pointed out. Actually to be in their position is a profound experience spirititually.

i have to concur this is something that I notice alot with those that are not religious that i know , it was so amazing to me it got my attention.....

it was an athiest once upon a time that modeled what unconditonal love is all about just by example for all to see no words were needed his life spoke of who he was in the living of it..... ..it seems that any path can be an oppourtunity its all in how one lives it....

Edited August 28, 2008 by Tangerine Sheri

[Marcus Aurelius]

i have to concur this is something that I notice alot with those that are not religious that i know , it was so amazing to me it got my attention.....

it was an athiest once upon a time that modeled what unconditonal love is all about just by example for all to see no words were needed his life spoke of who he was in the living of it..... ..it seems that any path can be an oppourtunity its all in how one lives it....

Yeah, absolutely. These people that say otherwise actually frighten me, to be honnest. Because someone does not believe in YOUR version of God, or no God at all, they cannot be good people? What? They are all sinners? They are all hellbound? But what then, does that make you? If you claim to follow a religion of whom your founder says 'Judge not lest ye be judged', then in reality, you are not following this path at all, and in fact, are faaaaarrrrrr worse off than the one who has no belief at all. If anything, your faith should make you kinder and more accepting of others, not the reverse. But lets not blame the faith itself here, it is the fault of men who push their own brand OF faith, and indoctrinate their flock into it. Lol is it any wonder that most of these ministers are hardcore republicans? Lol I always joke with people that if you were truly a loving Christian, or whatever faith, you would be a democrat. These ministers with their republican, outdated and ultra conservative views would plunge us back into the dark ages haha.

[Dr. D]

Hi Jorel,

What you said is true, but You or anyone else will Not be saying I told you so, Or they will end up remorsfull for wanting to hurt those which are already remorsful, In essence, Right along side those who do not Believe and think it Ok to hate and hurt their eternal bro.

Love Omnaka

And are there not those who believe who also hate and hurt their brothers?

[Omnaka]

And are there not those who believe who also hate and hurt their brothers?

Yes that was My point, Jorell Believes in God, But what I said goes for anyone who Feels righteous enough to point the finger and say I told you so.

After this life.

There will be many bros and sisters who are sad at the way they lived their lives and have a hard time forgiving them self. If One points and says I told you so, The one pointing will imediatly (Pure Consciousness) recognise his mistake and feel as bad as the one who did not know betterWhile incarnate.

Love Omnaka

Edited September 2, 2008 by Omnaka

[devilmaycare]

Whatever. There are billions who do not prescribe to the major religious beliefs. No real point in trying to explain yours.

These are simply points of view and can change depending upon locale, language, upbringing, etc.

Edited September 2, 2008 by devilmaycare

[Omnaka]

Whatever. There are billions who do not prescribe to the major religious beliefs. No real point in trying to explain yours.

I agree, If you are interested , you can go back and put it all in context, By reading The script.

I probably should not have answered that Post, because I alreadt did.

I have no reason to explain anything to you,

[Dr. D]

Yes that was My point, Jorell Believes in God, But what I said goes for anyone who Feels righteous enough to point the finger and say I told you so.

After this life.

There will be many bros and sisters who are sad at the way they lived their lives and have a hard time forgiving them self. If One points and says I told you so, The one pointing will imediatly (Pure Consciousness) recognise his mistake and feel as bad as the one who did not know betterWhile incarnate.

Love Omnaka

Doesn't this imply that there is, after all, a universal code of behavior? That the substance of right and wrong concepts is really valid?

And in assuming that some will be sad for the content of their lives, is that not in itself a judgement? And in making judgements, are we not pointing fingers?

[HAJiME]

All Iamson is saying is he knows that god exist, like he knows that 2+2=4 or like the sky is blue.

I understand that belief to the extent of knowing something is (or certainly feels, which is what is important here) absolute, but this is the single most ...stupid... simile I have ever heard.

2+2=4 isn't absolute. I can tell you now that 2+2 does not always equal 4, but that is another argument. What is important here, is that you required demonstration at some point in your life of 2+2 to know that it equals 4. Such demonstration, sharing human knowledge, cannot be applied to knowing that God exists. Unless you really did mean that someone has demonstrated to you that God exists, and you simply accepted it without question. In which case, you aren't REALLY worth my time because you are stupid.

But I know that wasn't what was meant at all and that this really was just a terrible simile that makes little or no sense.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Doesn't this imply that there is, after all, a universal code of behavior? That the substance of right and wrong concepts is really valid?

And in assuming that some will be sad for the content of their lives, is that not in itself a judgement? And in making judgements, are we not pointing fingers?

Yes. And that is karma. We are on a spiritual path, our actions and reactions.....right and wrong are what create karma. So it is valid, valid insofar as we are on a journey of spiritual evolution; how we react to things, even how we think, creates the karma that follows us from life to life.

And yes, it is judgement, but far from this idea of a tyrant on an eternal throne saving some and damning others. Rather, as Omnaka says, in spirit we recognize the true nature of self, we are aware of our karma, and aware of our previous incarnations and mistakes. The veil is lifted upon leaving this plane. We do not point fingers at anyone but self, as this journey is a personal one. Granted, we choose our parents, and we also pick whom will influence us in life, soul mates and such, but this is because they are on a similar path, or close to us on the journey, thereby making it mutually beneficial to work together.....however, ultimately this process is in fact a solitary one, we judge self and self alone.....not that we will be lamenting in eternity or something, but to again try to work through what we have done. One learns from their mistakes, correct? And so it is in the spiritual plane.

[Jor-el]

Yes that was My point, Jorell Believes in God, But what I said goes for anyone who Feels righteous enough to point the finger and say I told you so.

After this life.

There will be many bros and sisters who are sad at the way they lived their lives and have a hard time forgiving them self. If One points and says I told you so, The one pointing will imediatly (Pure Consciousness) recognise his mistake and feel as bad as the one who did not know betterWhile incarnate.

Love Omnaka

Finger pointing is not my thing Omnaka, I do hope you realize what you are implying here...

[Ely]

And just exactly how were the Urantia papers written, do you know?

The Birth of a Divine Revelation by Ernest P. Moyer
SCIENTIFIC and Physical Evidences for the Existence of GOD (...) by me

Eli (Luis Marco, 26)

Mexico City

[Beckys_Mom]

The Birth of a Divine Revelation by Ernest P. Moyer
SCIENTIFIC and Physical Evidences for the Existence of GOD (...) by me

Eli (Luis Marco, 26)

Mexico City

You waited 2 long years to answer Jorels post? hmmm nice one lol

[Ely]

Ya, girl.. life is like that..

Eli

[Beckys_Mom]

Ya, girl.. life is like that..

Eli

Now quit skipping ahead of yourself there ....you can answer my previous post in 2012