Lycans are not Werewolves

[Yorgmiester]

Hmmm i'm not sure why such a big deal is made over the differences between 2 fictional creatures.Lycans,Werewolves,Shapeshifters,the perfect ham sandwich,none of them are real,so theres no point arguing over what's what and what isn't what.

[EtuMalku]

Agent.Mulder is gonna kill me BUT!

Therians / Otherkin can only transmutate in the Astral Plane, not here on the physical (Malkuth). Much like the folklore of vampires, shape-shifting has little to do with the Hollywood / Mythology of Therians.

[Mattshark]

I swear that is going to wind up being the cure for everything...except cancer.

It is a good cure for thinking and for short term memory. Of course they are both kinda good things.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Mattshark

[+DieChecker]

Agent.Mulder is gonna kill me BUT!

Therians / Otherkin can only transmutate in the Astral Plane, not here on the physical (Malkuth). Much like the folklore of vampires, shape-shifting has little to do with the Hollywood / Mythology of Therians.

LOL. Good to see you have such a good sense of humor.

I too do not remember hearing about the term lycan until after Underworld. Didn't the angsty people used to call themselves Weres instead?

Is there anywhere in this thread for Wolfweres? Wolfweres are wolves that can change into humans to lure them off and eat them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfwere

[AdorablyDead]

It is a good cure for thinking and for short term memory. Of course they are both kinda good things.

Heyyyy, the last time I did that I found the cure for world hunger.......but I forgot.

XD

[thatgrimlife]

i have noticed alot of people comparing lycans to werewolves. there is only One comparison, both are fictional.

so it doesnt really matter that much when it comes to differences. unless youre speaking totally folklore.

lycanthropy is a mental illness where someone believes they are a certain animal. and the term 'lycan' was really only used in the Underworld movie (i think). so i reeeeeally hope youre not basing this whole thread off the movie. this better not be your 'evidence'

Whether or not they are fictional has very little to do with the point trying to be made. Barbie and Bratz are both toys and have very little to do with life, but they get compared too.

Response to Clovis.- I believe you've misunderstood what I was saying. I said that Lycan as a term for werewolf or a werewolf like creature wasn't used before the release of underworld. I'm not some daft slob on a computer making things up. I've done my share of research and am rather informed on this subject, thanks. The term lycanthropy is a medical term that been around for ages. I simply stated that the stem of said word wasn't used as the name of a creature before the release of that movie. Though it goes centuries back, it had a completely different meaning.

Incorrect. I saw the term used plenty before the release of the Underworld movies. In fact, I remember discussing the term with my father while my grandmother was still alive, and she died in 1999. Underworld just populized it. At which point my father made it a point to explain the difference between werewolves and lycanthropy.

youre right. one of them turns into an animal, the other turns into an animal....................wait?

but what they Really have in common, is theyre not real

No matter how many times you say it, you're not making a point here. This is a discussion about the differences between two things, not whether they are real or not. Shapeshifters do shift into an animal. But a werewolf shifts into a wolf sort of thing, which is far more specific.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Blind Atrocity

[EtuMalku]

Whether or not they are fictional has very little to do with the point trying to be made. Barbie and Bratz are both toys and have very little to do with life, but they get compared too.

Incorrect. I saw the term used plenty before the release of the Underworld movies. In fact, I remember discussing the term with my father while my grandmother was still alive, and she died in 1999. Underworld just populized it. At which point my father made it a point to explain the difference between werewolves and lycanthropy.

No matter how many times you say it, you're not making a point here. This is a discussion about the differences between two things, not whether they are real or not. Shapeshifters do shift into an animal. But a werewolf shifts into a wolf sort of thing, which is far more specific.

Blind Atrocity:You are wasting your time, they don't get it, it is in their DNA and comparative soul to skepticize everything and anything no matter what the topic actually is . . . thy skeptic motto = 'Prove it' !

[ShadowsAndDust]

Both aren't real so who really cares?

[EtuMalku]

Both aren't real so who really cares?

I can do that too!

"Of course they are real" <----- see? Useless remark that holds no insight or even stays within the topic.

[Yorgmiester]

I think the point he is trying to make,Etu,is that it doesn't really matter what the differences between werewolves and lycans are,because neither are real,so nobody will ever need to know the difference(unless they're attending a fantasy monster convention and want to win the monster flash cards competition ).It's ok to discuss it,and state what you think,but there's no use getting mad and arguing over it.It's pointless.

[Incorrigible1]

Is there anything one can't conveniently explain away with "it happens on the astral plane?"

A little known fact: Fairie dust sprinkles down upon us all, falling from the Astral Plane. It's true, and can't be proven incorrect. Convenience defined.

[itsnotoutthere]

i have noticed alot of people comparing lycans to werewolves. there is only One comparison, both are fictional.

so it doesnt really matter that much when it comes to differences. unless youre speaking totally folklore.

lycanthropy is a mental illness where someone believes they are a certain animal. and the term 'lycan' was really only used in the Underworld movie (i think). so i reeeeeally hope youre not basing this whole thread off the movie. this better not be your 'evidence'

Yup.....what he said.

[EtuMalku]

Nah, this is an old issue and one that the King Skeptics are fully aware of, I'm just having a little fun with them.

Blind Atrocity summed it up nicely

. . . "No matter how many times you say it, you're not making a point here. This is a discussion about the differences between two things, not whether they are real or not. Shapeshifters do shift into an animal. But a werewolf shifts into a wolf sort of thing, which is far more specific."

[Agent. Mulder]

Whether or not they are fictional has very little to do with the point trying to be made. Barbie and Bratz are both toys and have very little to do with life, but they get compared too.

the point trying to be made, is how Wood elves are different than High elves....wow....interesting

Incorrect. I saw the term used plenty before the release of the Underworld movies. In fact, I remember discussing the term with my father while my grandmother was still alive, and she died in 1999. Underworld just populized it. At which point my father made it a point to explain the difference between werewolves and lycanthropy.

correct, underworld Did make it a hell of alot more popular. and youre father hopefully told you the difference, that a werewolf is fictional, and lycanthropy (clinical) is where people are insane and believe themselves to be that animal.

No matter how many times you say it, you're not making a point here. This is a discussion about the differences between two things, not whether they are real or not. Shapeshifters do shift into an animal. But a werewolf shifts into a wolf sort of thing, which is far more specific.

yeop, sure. ill bet im not. except i keep getting you in here Commenting on my posts...why?

and yes, shapeshifters Can shapeshift into animals if they wish....thats kinda the point, behind there name...they can shapshift....

get it?

*edit* and could someone, like big old BA here, explain the point of this thread? no ones discussing the difference here. because someone Told us them at the start. and we thank them...so shouldnt this thread be finished for now?

Edited July 14, 2008 by Agent. Mulder

[EtuMalku]

Who here is familiar with this LP?

[Legendcop13]

If you are here to ruin the information needed for others than do not post on this forum please! This is for people who want to know about them as much as possible! It is rude and quite arrogant to post off topic replies. Keep on topic or keep off of this topic. It is here for people who are serious about it, not for people who are ignorant enough to ruin that oppurtunity.

~Jake Bassett

Legendcop13

[EtuMalku]

And here I thought someone would have gotten the joke? Yeeesh!

I'm here to discuss the difference between Lycanthropes and Werewolves (the OP!)

But so many here are just content in arguing that neither exist so why bother, and it doesn't matter what is said or who says anything 'they' keep up their tirade, but I guess that is ok with you Legendcop13?

My joke was aimed at the 'skeptics' but now I'm not sure where it's aimed . . lol.

Did you bother to read anything else that posted?

Edited July 14, 2008 by EtuMalku

[MaggieDruydess]

Werewolf/The Wendigo (also Windigo, Windago, Windiga, Witiko, Wihtikow, and numerous other variants) is a mythical creature appearing in the mythology of the Algonquin people. It is a malevolent cannibalistic spirit into which humans could transform, or which could possess humans. Those who indulged in cannibalism were at particular risk, and the legend appears to have reinforced this practice as taboo.

Windigo Psychosis is a culture-bound disorder which involves an intense craving for human flesh and the fear that one will turn into a cannibal. This once occurred frequently among Algonquian Indian cultures, though has declined with the Native American urbanization

Recently the Wendigo has also become a horror entity of contemporary literature and film, much like the vampire, werewolf, or zombie, although these fictional depictions often bear little resemblance to the original entity.

The Wendigo is part of the traditional belief systems of various Algonquian-speaking tribes in the northern United States and Canada, most notably the Ojibwa/Saulteaux, the Cree, and the Innu/Naskapi/Montagnais. Though descriptions varied somewhat, common to all these cultures was the conception of Wendigos as malevolent, cannibalistic supernatural beings (manitous) of great spiritual power. They were strongly associated with the Winter, the North, and coldness, as well as with famine and starvation.Basil Johnston, an Ojibwa teacher and scholar from Ontario, gives one description of how Wendigos were viewed:

“ The Weendigo was gaunt to the point of emaciation, its desiccated skin pulled tautly over its bones. With its bones pushing out against its skin, its complexion the ash gray of death, and its eyes pushed back deep into their sockets, the Weendigo looked like a gaunt skeleton recently disenterred from the grave. What lips it had were tattered and bloody [....] Unclean and suffering from suppurations of the flesh, the Weendigo gave off a strange and eerie odor of decay and decomposition, of death and corruption. ”

At the same time, Wendigos were embodiments of gluttony, greed, and excess; never satisfied after killing and consuming one person, they were constantly searching for new victims. In some traditions, humans who became overpowered by greed could turn into Wendigos; the Wendigo myth thus served as a method of encouraging cooperation and moderation.

Among the Ojibwa, Eastern Cree, Westmain Swampy Cree, and Innu/Naskapi/Montagnais, Wendigos were said to be giants, many times larger than human beings (a characteristic absent from the Wendigo myth in the other Algonquian cultures). Whenever a Wendigo ate another person, they would grow larger, in proportion to the meal they had just eaten, so that they could never be full.Wendigos were thus simultaneously constantly gorging themselves and emaciated from starvation.

All cultures in which the Wendigo myth appeared shared the belief that human beings could turn into Wendigos if they ever resorted to cannibalism or, alternately, become possessed by the demonic spirit of a Wendigo, often in a dream. Once transformed, a person would become violent and obsessed with eating human flesh. The most frequent cause of transformation into a Wendigo was if a person had resorted to cannibalism, consuming the body of another human in order to keep from starving to death during a time of extreme hardship or famine.

Among northern Algonquian cultures, cannibalism, even to save one's own life, was viewed as a serious taboo; the proper response to famine was suicide or resignation to death. On one level, the Wendigo myth thus worked as a deterrent and a warning against resorting to cannibalism; those who did would become Wendigo monsters themselves.

Wendigo ceremony

Among the Assiniboine, the Cree and the Ojibwa, a satirical ceremonial dance was originally performed during times of famine to reinforce the seriousness of the Wendigo taboo. The ceremonial dance, known as a wiindigookaanzhimowin in Ojibwe and today performed as part of the last day activities of the Sun dance, involves wearing a mask and dancing about the drum backwards. The last known Wendigo Ceremony conducted in the United States was at Windigo Lake of Star Island of Cass Lake, located within the Leech Lake Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota.

Windigo Psychosis

"Windigo Psychosis" (also spelled many other ways, including "Wendigo Psychosis" and "Witiko Psychosis") refers to a condition in which sufferers developed an insatiable desire to eat human flesh even when other food sources were readily available, often as a result of prior famine cannibalism; Windigo Psychosis is identified by Western psychologists as a culture-bound syndrome, though members of the aboriginal communities in which it existed believed cases literally involved individuals turning into Wendigos. Such individuals generally recognized these symptoms as meaning that they were turning into Wendigos, and often requested to be executed before they could harm others. The most common response when someone began suffering from Windigo Psychosis was curing attempts by traditional native healers or Western doctors. In the unusual cases when these attempts failed, and the Wendigo began either to threaten those around them or to act violently or anti-socially, they were then generally executed. Cases of Windigo Psychosis, though real, were relatively rare, and it was even rarer for them to actually culminate in the execution of the sufferer.

One of the more famous cases of Windigo Psychosis involved a Plains Cree trapper from Alberta, named Swift Runner. During the winter of 1878, Swift Runner and his family were starving, and his eldest son died. Within just 25 miles of emergency food supplies at a Hudson's Bay Company post, Swift Runner butchered and ate his wife and five remaining children. Given that he resorted to cannibalism so near to food supplies, and that he killed and consumed the remains of all those present, it was revealed that Swift Runner's was not a case of pure cannibalism as a last resort to avoid starvation, but rather a man suffering from Windigo Psychosis. He eventually confessed, and was executed by authorities at Fort Saskatchewan. Another well-known case involving Windigo Psychosis was that of Jack Fiddler, an Oji-Cree chief and shaman, known for his powers at defeating Wendigos. In some cases this entailed euthanizing people suffering from Windigo Psychosis; as a result, in 1907, Fiddler and his brother Joseph were arrested by the Canadian authorities for murder. Jack committed suicide, but Joseph was tried and put to death.

Fascination with Windigo Psychosis among Western ethnographers, psychologists, and anthropologists led to a hotly debated controversy in the 1980s over the historicity of this phenomenon. Some researchers argued that Windigo Psychosis was essentially a fabrication, the result of naive anthropologists taking stories related to them at face value. Others, however, pointed to a number of credible eyewitness accounts, both by Algonquians and by Westerners, as proof that Windigo Psychosis was a factual historical phenomenon.

The frequency of Windigo Psychosis cases decreased sharply in the 20th century as boreal Algonquian people came in to greater and greater contact with Western ideologies and more sedentary, less rural lifestyles. While there is substantive evidence to suggest that Windigo Psychosis did exist, a number of questions concerning the condition remain unanswered

~A Feild Guide to Demons, Fairies, Fallen Angels and other Subversive Spirits" Carol and Dinah Mack, (and ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendigo

[Agent. Mulder]

wee talking about lycanthropy and werewolves. not a cannibalistic spirit, taking control of people in the wild, without their control, and making them killers and cannibals.

[MaggieDruydess]

Just wanted to put more info out there. It also sort of shows more of the blurring between lines AND I wanted to point out the native americans beleived in 'wolf like' creatures before the spanish or english came. But who knows... The Norse were here thousands of years berofre Columbus and they had Fenris. Perhaps they told the natives those stories? My point was to show how all things are connected and evolve over time. I am sorry if i interupted or was unwelcome to comment.

[Agent. Mulder]

Just wanted to put more info out there. It also sort of shows more of the blurring between lines AND I wanted to point out the native americans beleived in 'wolf like' creatures before the spanish or english came. But who knows... The Norse were here thousands of years berofre Columbus and they had Fenris. Perhaps they told the natives those stories? My point was to show how all things are connected and evolve over time. I am sorry if i interupted or was unwelcome to comment.

not unwelcome at all. the wendigo is actually one of my favorite stories/legends. always get creeped out when i think about it in the woods. mainly cause im in canada too.

i just wasnt sure at first why it was brought up here, when talking about werewolves.

[EtuMalku]

Has anybody brought up the Beserkers?

Berserkers (or Berserks) were Norse warriors who wore coats of wolf or bear skin and who were commonly understood to have fought in an uncontrollable rage or trance of fury; the berserkergang, hence the modern word berserk.

The Úlfhéðnar (singular Úlfhéðinn) mentioned in the Vatnsdœla saga, Haraldskvæði and the Völsunga saga were said to wear the pelt of a wolf upon their heads when they entered battle. (For example: Bernhari, Haimric, Hlodwig, Theudberga, Warinhari, etc.) Úlfhéðnar are sometimes described as Odin's special warriors, with the pelt from a wolf and a spear as distinguishing feature.

Theories about what caused berserker behavior include ingestion of materials with psychoactive properties, psychological processes, and medical conditions.

According to a theory of spirit possession, the berserk rage was achieved through possession by the animal spirit of either a bear or a wolf. Berserkers would cultivate an ability to allow the animal's spirit to take over their body during a fight. This is seen as a somewhat peculiar application of animal totemism.

Botanists have suggested the behavior might be tied to ingestion of bog myrtle (Myrica gale syn: Gale palustris), a plant that was one of the main spices in alcoholic beverages in Scandinavia. The drawback is that it increases the hangover headache afterwards. Drinking alcoholic beverages spiced with bog myrtle the night before going to battle might have resulted in unusually aggressive behavior.

The notion that Nordic Vikings used the fly agaric mushroom to produce their berserker rages was first suggested by the Swedish professor Samuel Ödman in 1784. Ödman based his theory on reports about the use of fly agaric among Siberian shamans. The notion has become widespread since the 19th century, but no contemporary sources mention this use or anything similar in their description of berserkers. In addition, the injection of bufotenine from Bufo marinus toad skin into humans was shown to produce similar symptoms to the "Berserker" descriptions. These findings, first examined by Howard Fabing in 1956, were later linked to the induction of zombie characteristics by ethnobotanists in 1983.

[Incorrigible1]

Has anybody brought up the Beserkers?

Berserkers (or Berserks) were Norse warriors who wore coats of wolf or bear skin and who were commonly understood to have fought in an uncontrollable rage or trance of fury; the berserkergang, hence the modern word berserk.

The Úlfhéðnar (singular Úlfhéðinn) mentioned in the Vatnsdœla saga, Haraldskvæði and the Völsunga saga were said to wear the pelt of a wolf upon their heads when they entered battle. (For example: Bernhari, Haimric, Hlodwig, Theudberga, Warinhari, etc.) Úlfhéðnar are sometimes described as Odin's special warriors, with the pelt from a wolf and a spear as distinguishing feature.

Theories about what caused berserker behavior include ingestion of materials with psychoactive properties, psychological processes, and medical conditions.

According to a theory of spirit possession, the berserk rage was achieved through possession by the animal spirit of either a bear or a wolf. Berserkers would cultivate an ability to allow the animal's spirit to take over their body during a fight. This is seen as a somewhat peculiar application of animal totemism.

Botanists have suggested the behavior might be tied to ingestion of bog myrtle (Myrica gale syn: Gale palustris), a plant that was one of the main spices in alcoholic beverages in Scandinavia. The drawback is that it increases the hangover headache afterwards. Drinking alcoholic beverages spiced with bog myrtle the night before going to battle might have resulted in unusually aggressive behavior.

The notion that Nordic Vikings used the fly agaric mushroom to produce their berserker rages was first suggested by the Swedish professor Samuel Ödman in 1784. Ödman based his theory on reports about the use of fly agaric among Siberian shamans. The notion has become widespread since the 19th century, but no contemporary sources mention this use or anything similar in their description of berserkers. In addition, the injection of bufotenine from Bufo marinus toad skin into humans was shown to produce similar symptoms to the "Berserker" descriptions. These findings, first examined by Howard Fabing in 1956, were later linked to the induction of zombie characteristics by ethnobotanists in 1983.

Copying and pasting? Please provide a link, otherwise you might be guilty of plagiarism.

Link to EtuMalku's posting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

And here I thought someone would have gotten the joke? Yeeesh!

I'm here to discuss the difference between Lycanthropes and Werewolves (the OP!)

But so many here are just content in arguing that neither exist so why bother, and it doesn't matter what is said or who says anything 'they' keep up their tirade, but I guess that is ok with you Legendcop13?

My joke was aimed at the 'skeptics' but now I'm not sure where it's aimed . . lol.

Did you bother to read anything else that posted?

LMAO.

[MaggieDruydess]

I remember history channel has a show once that spoke of the farmers' rye freezing and causing chemical changes. When the rye was eaten it induced hallucinations. The people suffering were often accused of being werewolves and several were executed for such.