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Family Innocent in Jonbenet Ramsey Murder


Isis2200

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1) The note was most likely written by a female accomplice as a desperate attempt to dissuade her psychopathic male accomplice from killing JonBenet, which is what he had already been contemplating soon after JonBenet discovered the two intruders in the house.

2) Most likely, as the female accomplice was writing the ransom note, she was unaware that her male accomplice was murdering JonBenet.

3) The language of the note suggests a young, adult female attempting to sound like an actual kidnapper and overdoing it.

I can't make any sense of that scenario. Personally, I don't think the perp actually intended to kidnap JonBenet.

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This wasn't an intended kidnapping. This was an intended burglary. JonBenet was probably not taken from her bed; rather, she went downstairs on her own volition believing it was Santa Claus she heard stirring about downstairs, and that he had come pay her a special visit. JonBenet was killed because she knew at one of the two burglars who had entered the house that evening, and could identify them to police.

There was duct tape- used to cover the mouth, and cord- used in the garrotte and to tie the wrists which the perp apparently brought with him, and those are items used to subdue.

Edit: I agree it's likely that JonBenet was killed because she could recognize the perp.

Edited by regi
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1) The note was most likely written by a female accomplice as a desperate attempt to dissuade her psychopathic male accomplice from killing JonBenet, which is what he had already been contemplating soon after JonBenet discovered the two intruders in the house.

2) Most likely, as the female accomplice was writing the ransom note, she was unaware that her male accomplice was murdering JonBenet.

3) The language of the note suggests a young, adult female attempting to sound like an actual kidnapper and overdoing it.

I do see a possibility in what you are saying. I don't know how you came to identify the writer of the note as a woman but I dunno ~ Since you first brought up this thread with your theory I've gone back and did just a little catching up on later developments with the people involved in that house. I say involved in the house because whoever did this had to have known it. I was amazed when I found what had happened between Patti and the maid. I think the maid's actions and statements were some of the most odd. So I can at least look at her as being the possible female. I think she could have known JR's bonus amount, she was jealous of them and there ya go. She would have probably known Patti's repeated comment re. "your good old Southern common sense." Maybe her alcoholic husband the other ? After the lawsuit that went on between Patti and the maid, if I would have been LE, I would have certainly been questioning her a lot more.

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I can't make any sense of that scenario.

Actually, it is the only scenario that makes sense and fits the evidence.

Personally, I don't think the perp actually intended to kidnap JonBenet.

The degree of overkill presented strongly suggests that the male accomplice had no real intention of kidnapping JonBenet. To the contrary, he intended to make absolutely certain that she was dead so that she would never tell a living soul who it was she saw in the house that evening. The idea of kidnapping JonBenet was contrived by his female accomplice, likely as a desperate attempt to dissuade him from killing JonBenet, a little girl whom she knew well and liked.

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I do see a possibility in what you are saying. I don't know how you came to identify the writer of the note as a woman but I dunno ~ Since you first brought up this thread with your theory I've gone back and did just a little catching up on later developments with the people involved in that house. I say involved in the house because whoever did this had to have known it. I was amazed when I found what had happened between Patti and the maid. I think the maid's actions and statements were some of the most odd. So I can at least look at her as being the possible female. I think she could have known JR's bonus amount, she was jealous of them and there ya go. She would have probably known Patti's repeated comment re. "your good old Southern common sense." Maybe her alcoholic husband the other ? After the lawsuit that went on between Patti and the maid, if I would have been LE, I would have certainly been questioning her a lot more.

I would not be the first person to identify the writer of the note as a female. The note is rife with female overtones. I don't believe the female accomplice was the maid. If I'm not mistaken, she was thoroughly cleared by investigators; however, it is possible that it was someone related to the maid. I make the female accomplice as a young adult, somewhere between the ages of 16 and 26. It is possible that she had babysat for JonBenet on at least one occasion. She was certainly someone who was familiar with the Ramsey house and familiar with the Ramsey family.

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To the contrary, he intended to make absolutely certain that she was dead so that she would never tell a living soul who it was she saw in the house that evening. The idea of kidnapping JonBenet was contrived by his female accomplice, likely as a desperate attempt to dissuade him from killing JonBenet, a little girl whom she knew well and liked.

Actually, I'm not sure if he killed JonBenet for that reason alone, but I do think she could recognize him and that it would be one reason.

I agree with you re: the head injury...I think it was inflicted to be sure she was dead..

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There was duct tape- used to cover the mouth, and cord- used in the garrotte and to tie the wrists which the perp apparently brought with him, and those are items used to subdue.

Edit: I agree it's likely that JonBenet was killed because she could recognize the perp.

Rope and duct tape are commonly found in burglary kits.

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Actually, I'm not sure if he killed JonBenet for that reason alone...

What other reason would there be for such overkill?

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What other reason would there be for such overkill?

I just said...I think the blow to the head was to assure death. I think it occurred near death. (There was little bleeding for such a massive blow.)

Edit: Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you'd asked. What I meant by "not sure if he killed her for that reason alone" was, I think to kill her could have always been his intention.

Edited by regi
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I would not be the first person to identify the writer of the note as a female. The note is rife with female overtones. I don't believe the female accomplice was the maid. If I'm not mistaken, she was thoroughly cleared by investigators; however, it is possible that it was someone related to the maid. I make the female accomplice as a young adult, somewhere between the ages of 16 and 26. It is possible that she had babysat for JonBenet on at least one occasion. She was certainly someone who was familiar with the Ramsey house and familiar with the Ramsey family.

To me and this is just my feeble mind at work. There is something significant that happened when Patti loaned the maid money right before Christmas. I can't think right off what the amount was may $1,200 ?? Anyway when the maid laid out her need to Patti. Patti simply went and got her purse and wrote the check. It was after all Christmas. I think that good deed might have been what set this into motion because I don't think it was met with the feeling from the maid Patti would have expected. I don't think it inspired gratitude, I think it might have kicked off jealous rage.

I think the proof of this is the lawsuit the maid filed later. Now to me, it took a real wench to sue Patti. She had given her a job, she had given her money off the cuff when she needed it, she had lost her child in the most horrible of manner and she was terminally ill. Now I can be really evil, I will readily admit to that but I would not and could not have done that !!!

Someone the maid knew and had heard the rage. Yeah, a possibility to me too.

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Cord and duct tape used on the body + nothing burgled= reason for duct tape and cord.

Recall that this was a blown caper that ended in the murder of a little girl. That nothing of apparent value was taken from the home suggests that these were likely thrill burglars who were not desperate for money, such as heroin addicts would be. Their only desire after murdering JonBenet was to get out of the house without being caught. They were not about to take anything with them that could be traced to the Ramsey residence.

Edited by Sig Turner
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Also, the maid did have a teenage son. Did the maid help Patti out some time by providing a babysitter, a girl her son knew. Again, if I were LE I would have had the son hanging by this thumbs while I interrogated him.

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To me and this is just my feeble mind at work. There is something significant that happened when Patti loaned the maid money right before Christmas. I can't think right off what the amount was may $1,200 ?? Anyway when the maid laid out her need to Patti. Patti simply went and got her purse and wrote the check. It was after all Christmas. I think that good deed might have been what set this into motion because I don't think it was met with the feeling from the maid Patti would have expected. I don't think it inspired gratitude, I think it might have kicked off jealous rage.

I think the proof of this is the lawsuit the maid filed later. Now to me, it took a real wench to sue Patti. She had given her a job, she had given her money off the cuff when she needed it, she had lost her child in the most horrible of manner and she was terminally ill. Now I can be really evil, I will readily admit to that but I would not and could not have done that !!!

Someone the maid knew and had heard the rage. Yeah, a possibility to me too.

I think this whole thing began when a neighbor looked out her window and saw the Ramsey family pulling out of the driveway, early Christmas night. Having heard that the Ramseys were leaving to vacation in Michigan between the holidays, she mistakenly believed that the family was on their way to the airport, and mentioned this much to her boyfriend. The boyfriend persuades her into burgling the Ramsey residence that evening. Unfortunately, the Ramseys were not on their way to the airport just yet. They were on their way to visit their friends, the Whites. They would not be leaving for the airport until early the next morning.

I suspect this caper to have been more spontaneous than well-planned.

Edited by Sig Turner
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Also, the maid did have a teenage son. Did the maid help Patti out some time by providing a babysitter, a girl her son knew. Again, if I were LE I would have had the son hanging by this thumbs while I interrogated him.

Unfortunately, it does not appear that the BPD spent a great deal of energy investigating anyone outside the Ramsey family, having put the bulk of their time and resources into investigating the most convenient suspects.

I have to say that I am suspicious of the BPD, given the degree of incompetency presented in this investigation. I smell a rat. I would like to know why a narcotics detective was assigned as a lead investigator for such a convoluted homicide case? I would also like to know what sort of directives he received from his superiors as to whom he should focus the investigation upon.

Edited by Sig Turner
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I think this whole thing began when a neighbor looked out her window and saw the Ramsey family pulling out of the driveway, early Christmas night. Having heard that the Ramseys were leaving to vacation in Michigan between the holidays, she mistakenly believed that the family was on their way to the airport, and mentioned this much to her boyfriend. The boyfriend persuades her into burgling the Ramsey residence that evening. Unfortunately, the Ramseys were not on their way to the airport just yet. They were on their way to visit their friends, the Whites. They would not be leaving for the airport until early the next morning.

I suspect this caper to have been more spontaneous than well-planned.

Well, I have to laugh here Sig. My first thought as I read this was, oh, no way, not one of their neighbors. Then it hit me like a rock. My house was broken into and I was robbed by.....Yeah, ya got it, one of my neighbors !!! She was a nurse and her boyfriend, the one who robbed me, was an addict. No, I am not lying. God's honest truth. And it's not just a maybe he did it. They caught him pawning some of my stuff.

An example of you never know who other people know and why they know them ! So, LOL before I say this could never have happened, I guess I need to think about it a little longer ! What strikes me so funny is that I started to tell you this idea was off the wall.

Unfortunately, it does not appear that the BPD spent a great deal of energy investigating anyone outside the Ramsey family, having put the bulk of their time and resources into investigating the most convenient suspects.

I have to say that I am suspicious of the BPD, given the degree of incompetency presented in this investigation. I smell a rat. I would like to know why a narcotics detective was assigned as a lead investigator for such a convoluted homicide case? I would also like to know what sort of directives he received from his superiors as to whom he should focus the investigation upon.

I've got this latest book by Steve Thomas one of the early detectives. No comment until I finish the read.

Edited by Vincennes
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Recall that this was a blown caper that ended in the murder of a little girl. That nothing of apparent value was taken from the home suggests that these were likely thrill burglars who were not desperate for money, such as heroin addicts would be. Their only desire after murdering JonBenet was to get out of the house without being caught. They were not about to take anything with them that could be traced to the Ramsey residence.

Well, I think there's three points where we agree, but that's it. :D

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I` d have to disagree the strangling came after hitting her on the head, to make sure she stopped breathing and could`nt tell a soul The note was to kidnap her for the money, the so call plan, someone who knew the Ramseys very well with that much information about them.If there were two planers there, why would the one kill her just over a sexual drive spoiling the plan, or for that matter for the whole group.

Mr. Ramsey,

Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction

There is a lot not right in this case.

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I'm like you, Vin. I thought all a stun gun does is "stun" the person, immobilizing them for a few minutes. But maybe it does knock out a person. Or some people. Or a child.

One thing that troubled me about the stun gun theory is that there were others who thought the marks could be something else. I forget now what. If a stun gun was used, I agree that would rule out the parents. Unless there's some reason a parent would use a stun gun on his/her own kid.

I read about how there was a blanket covering JBR, which the BPD said proved it was someone who loved the child, didn't want to dump her somewhere outside where she would be alone in the cold. Aside from the fact that after someone is dead it doesn't matter to them where the body is, I can see what they're saying. But then look at the crime. Look what was done with that child. Whoever did this to this beautiful, innocent little girl, are these the actions of someone who loved her? Would people who loved her not seek medical help for a child knocked unconscious from a blow to the head? Even if the parent caused the injury, is this really what she would do? Immediately write the child off as dead, concluding there's no hope of saving her? Instead, spring into the plan of strangling her sadistically, taking the time to fashion a complex garrote? It had to be a pretty quick decision because the evidence shows the two fatal injuries came within a very narrow window of time of each other. I simply can't fathom that parents like the Ramseys would do that. It's not how a sane parent acts. The first impulse would be to call an ambulance. The parent wouldn't instantly assume there was no hope. That's the main reason I don't believe Casey Anthony's alleged story that Caylee drowned in their pool. Anyone finding her there wouldn't know how long she'd been there. They would try to recussitate her. They would call 911. That certainly isn't love to not even try to get help for her.

This is the biggest problem in this case IMO: for every scrap of evidence there are explanations that contradict each other, or are canceled out by a competing theory.

Then there is this the case of baby Alania in my home town where in the end they confessed, the mother got mad at her two year old daughter because her and her boyfriend wanted to have sex,the child was crying , she knocked the child around breaking five bones, She said I should have taken her to the hospital then when she was not acting right, but then the boy friend afraid they would get in trouble smothered her and hid her body in the garage with her blanket.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=250038

Edited by docyabut2
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Then there is this the case of baby Alania in my home town where in the end they confessed, the mother got mad at her two year old daughter because her and her boyfriend wanted to have sex,the child was crying , she knocked the child around breaking five bones, She said I should have taken her to the hospital then when she was not acting right, but then the boy friend afraid they would get in trouble smothered her and hid her body in the garage with her blanket.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=250038

Please don't think any of us are denying that horrible abuse goes on. The accident of birth is a terrible thing. However, sadly, I'm sure this terrible act fit Alania's parents' pattern of behavior. What I do not obviously see is it fitting the Ramsey's behavior pattern.

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Please don't think any of us are denying that horrible abuse goes on. The accident of birth is a terrible thing. However, sadly, I'm sure this terrible act fit Alania's parents' pattern of behavior. What I do not obviously see is it fitting the Ramsey's behavior pattern.

I don't of JB mother`s, but the Father I do have some doubts.You do hear of Fathers drunk and trying to sexully molest their daughters in the middle of the night.So many of those cases.Some will even kill their daughters to cover up their bad behavior. It all seem so odd the ransom note was only addressed to him.

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Well, I have to laugh here Sig. My first thought as I read this was, oh, no way, not one of their neighbors. Then it hit me like a rock. My house was broken into and I was robbed by.....Yeah, ya got it, one of my neighbors !!! She was a nurse and her boyfriend, the one who robbed me, was an addict. No, I am not lying. God's honest truth. And it's not just a maybe he did it. They caught him pawning some of my stuff.

An example of you never know who other people know and why they know them ! So, LOL before I say this could never have happened, I guess I need to think about it a little longer ! What strikes me so funny is that I started to tell you this idea was off the wall.

Now I think I know what you were talking about in your PM.

I've got this latest book by Steve Thomas one of the early detectives. No comment until I finish the read.

Don't bother. Steve Thomas was a narcotics detective who for some reason was tapped as a lead investigator in this convoluted homicide. He could not have screwed this case up more if he tried. He was in way over his head.

Edited by Sig Turner
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I don't of JB mother`s, but the Father I do have some doubts.You do hear of Fathers drunk and trying to sexully molest their daughters in the middle of the night.So many of those cases.Some will even kill their daughters to cover up their bad behavior. It all seem so odd the ransom note was only addressed to him.

Neither of the Ramsey parents had any history of being abusive parents.

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I can't make any sense of that scenario. Personally, I don't think the perp actually intended to kidnap JonBenet.

No, I don't either. Nothing in all the evidence is consistent with a planned abduction for ransom. No one planning an abduction waits until he's inside the victim's home to write a ransom demand. That letter screams out as being written as an afterthought. But after what? And why? The only thing I can think (and most people agree) is the whole letter was to send LE in the wrong direction, down the wrong path. But to what end? If the letter was written after the body was left in basement, he/she must have realized LE would search the house and would eventually find the body--at which time the whole kidnapping investigation is immediately scrapped. Given that, why would a child killer sit down with pad and pen and script a long, rambling ransom letter for a ransom that would never be collected? But to those who accuse the Ramseys, why would either of them write the letter with the child dead, hidden in the basement, with that whole gruesome, obscene strangulation/fake rape staged? Neither scenario makes any sense.

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No, I don't either. Nothing in all the evidence is consistent with a planned abduction for ransom. No one planning an abduction waits until he's inside the victim's home to write a ransom demand. That letter screams out as being written as an afterthought. But after what? And why? The only thing I can think (and most people agree) is the whole letter was to send LE in the wrong direction, down the wrong path. But to what end? If the letter was written after the body was left in basement, he/she must have realized LE would search the house and would eventually find the body--at which time the whole kidnapping investigation is immediately scrapped. Given that, why would a child killer sit down with pad and pen and script a long, rambling ransom letter for a ransom that would never be collected? But to those who accuse the Ramseys, why would either of them write the letter with the child dead, hidden in the basement, with that whole gruesome, obscene strangulation/fake rape staged? Neither scenario makes any sense.

This was not a planned abduction. It was a burglary gone bad. There were two intruders: one male, one female. The idea of kidnapping, as well as the ransom note, was the desperate contrivance of the female intruder trying to dissuade her psychopathic male accomplice from the idea of murdering JonBenet, which is what he had in mind (and eventually acted upon) after JonBenet discovered the two would-be burglars in the house. Thus, the ransom note, like the idea of kidnapping, was certainly an afterthought. However, it was never intended to mislead investigators (though it apparently did a very effective job at doing so nonetheless). Most likely, while the female intruder was in the kitchen writing the ransom note , she was unaware that her male accomplice was busy murdering JonBenet in the basement.

It simply does not make sense that either of the Ramsey parents would have written such a protracted bogus ransom note. One would think that they would be under such tension that they would write the most succinct ransom note possible. Moreover, it strains credulity to suggest that they would have attempted to fake a kidnapping of their six year-old daughter then left her brutally murdered body in the basement where it could easily be found by police. Obviously, Burke Ramsey could not have been the culprit since he was only nine years old at the time.

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