Odd fish contradicts intelligent-design argument

[UM-Bot]

Image credit: Julia Margaret Cameron

The discovery of a missing link in the evolution of bizarre flatfishes—each of which has both eyes on the same side of its head—could give intelligent design advocates a sinking feeling. CT scans of 50-million-year-old fossils have revealed an intermediate species between primitive flatfishes (with eyes on both sides of their heads) and the modern, lopsided versions, which include sole, flounder, and halibut.

View: Full Article | Source: National Geographic

[SpringheelMac]

I still don't understand why a belief in evolution has to be contradictory to a belief in God or a higher power. Why is it so hard to believe that God or a higher power created a system as unique as evolution? Why do religious people insist on limited the power of their God? Species can only be made in their current forms? What kind of BS is that? "Intelligent Design" is not what it sounds like.

[Sylent Nyte]

I still don't understand why a belief in evolution has to be contradictory to a belief in God or a higher power. Why is it so hard to believe that God or a higher power created a system as unique as evolution? Why do religious people insist on limited the power of their God? Species can only be made in their current forms? What kind of BS is that? "Intelligent Design" is not what it sounds like.

Because it is written that the Earth was created in seven days, and to that end events do not stack up chronologically. Also, evolution suggests a state of natural progression in line with environmental constraints where creationism suggests external intervention and accelerated, artificial progression. The Vatican continually modifies its stance according to social norms and what information is more easily assimilated by the general public. This itself suggests that the Vatican does not know precisely nor thoroughly the subject matter they preach. I present as examples: once, clergymen denied that animals had souls. Pope John Paul II contradicted this cornerstone and declared otherwise. Now, in another thread, we have news of the Vatican changing their stance on extraterrestrial life, proclaiming that "there may exist other life also created by the same deity," their deity specifically.

However, there is yet to be proof of either phenomenon: a "god" being nor "intelligent alien life." And so, humanity continues to pursue, to posture, while being, in many cases, reluctant to admit that it is still groping around in the dark of the cosmos.

[ScreaminJock]

Looks like my wife

[espatross]

I still don't understand why a belief in evolution has to be contradictory to a belief in God or a higher power. Why is it so hard to believe that God or a higher power created a system as unique as evolution? Why do religious people insist on limited the power of their God? Species can only be made in their current forms? What kind of BS is that? "Intelligent Design" is not what it sounds like.

The problem is when people take the old testament word for word, as opposed to taking much of the stories as symbols and lessons. Not always factual, but the truths are much more pertinent than they can realize. Black and white thinkers that hold onto the belief of the literal while ignoring the truths between the lines.

[LostInThought]

Some people never seem to consider that God and Evolution could work hand in hand. God could be the power behind Evolution!

[www375]

Looks like my wife

LMFAO!!!!

[Bender.]

Feel that Christians? Those are the spears of logic.

[InHuman]

Explain THAT BEN STIEN!

[Magnatude]

This doesnt contradict my own definition of "God".

Which is where this "God vs Science" idea has spurned from, the misconception or presumption of what God is

[LostInThought]

Looks like my wife

Wow you must have bad taste in women.

[+DieChecker]

This is stupid, any arguement that could be used to refute the development of mankind from an ape like creature is even easier to use against this evidence. If people will not accept that horses evolved from a small dog like animal and that hyrax, manatees and elephants all have a common ancestor, then they aren't going to give a rat about some fossil flatfish.

They will just say that it was a different species altogether and that God made it that way.

The Young Earth People really have failed to prove anything though.

[ShaunZero]

Some people never seem to consider that God and Evolution could work hand in hand. God could be the power behind Evolution!

That would be a VERY inconvenient way to create life for an all-powerful God.

[Horus Christos]

The problem is when people take the old testament word for word, as opposed to taking much of the stories as symbols and lessons. Not always factual, but the truths are much more pertinent than they can realize. Black and white thinkers that hold onto the belief of the literal while ignoring the truths between the lines.

Not only the old testament Espatross, but the new testament as well - which is the basic tenet of the so-called Gnostic heresy.

Why is it so hard to see the Jesus story itself as a myth, like the stories of Adam and Eve, Noah, and Abrahan, meant to teach us moral lessons and metaphorical truths, such as the transendence (dare I say resurrection?) of a higher spiritual self over the material egotistical self. Ideally this can be done within a mortal life, and (who knows?) it may even occur after life when our inner christ (soul, essence, intelligence, etc., if it exists) may join up again with God (creator, universal intelligence...if it exists).

There is no archeological proof of the existance of Jesus or any of the 12 apostles, Mary magdalene or other characters of the new testament. (St. Paul is the first independantly documented historical person to appear in the New Testament). In fact, the Jesus story has been around in various forms for hundreds of years before the "time of Christ". It was a jewish adaptation of the Dionysius myth popular in the greek mystery religions, which itself was brought to Greece by Pythagorus (not only a mathematician, but a mystic), who had visit Egypt and witnessed the Egyptian Osiris ritual, with the resurrected son-God Horus (Hence, Horus Christos - the original Jesus Christ) and then adapted it to Greek sensibilities using Dionysius.

St. Paul actually taught this Gnostic version of Chrisitianity - he sometimes chastises other churches for not preparing believers to see behind the story to the fundamental truths....however, quite unfortunately, the "literalists" won out with their version of a real historical Jesus, thus allowing the Church hierarchy to have a monopoly on interpretation of a externalized Christ figure, rather than having individuals try to find their own "inner Christ" through self-medition and realization - something that is inherently personal and does not need an institutionalized hierarchy of deacons, priests, bishops and popes.

Just my little rant....

[sewinglife/chimera]

Looks like my wife

lol I envy her.

[Enigmatic Ghost]

Some people never seem to consider that God and Evolution could work hand in hand. God could be the power behind Evolution!

LostInThought, If I may quote you here respectfully and add to it for others here, so I can make my point and elaborately add here upon yours...

That is exactly how I see things, as The Great Spirit/God created things to be to evolve and that in our involvement and passive interactions with Natures animals (Nature Earth-Mother), All the living things created upon the earth by God The Father and it is in my strong beliefs in this and Him and my high regard and respect for natures environment and creatures wee and Large, and that understanding is why I and others understand and communicate with Nature as in with our Animal Spirit Totems, and if in others or myself if I chose to a lacking of all the respect and acknowledging of all including the Great Spirit that is the reasons that many do not even see past their own self due to the Human Greed Factor and self absorption… If you don’t respect and believe in People, people will not in return respect and believe in you, and so is it as with Animals and God in this respect and in the interactions of all, we need to think in terms of circles and blending and respecting and not in square cubes of self confining and walls built up of fears and greed’s, it is in these Walls of cubes that are the confinements of life, physical and Spiritual…

Thank you...

Pavot

Edited July 13, 2008 by Pavot

[__Kratos__]

ID was never a real theory to begin with, it's just a bunch of foolishness slapped together to fit a view of creationism.

So in reality this is just yet another piece of evidence and rational thought that stabs into the bubble of ignorance.

[Oakum]

Some people never seem to consider that God and Evolution could work hand in hand. God could be the power behind Evolution!

You are absolutely correct. Congrats!

If you are interested in knowing the truth about this controversial subject then here is a PDF.file attachement concerning my hypothesis on how everything came to be.

However, I must warn you that it might lobotomize you in the process or it may clear the shroud of misconceptions that the world has constructed around you since you were born.

Building lies to cover the truth.

Do not forget however, that this is just another theory after all. Most of all it is a theory thought up from a nobody such as myself who has great faith in God.

Don't forget that the greater your faith in God by obeying His commandments to the letter greater your are among other worldly people who transgress His laws.

On the other hand you might find this hypothesis to be closer to the actual events or truths compared to any other theories that happened to be washed up on the shores of wisdom on this planet.

Once you start reading my hypothesis you will notice that I had previously wrote to a theologian friend of mine about this controversial issue.

Note: Please read the bible passages that I have inserted to compare.

Password = Acadian

Enjoy!

Oakum

[RipeFRuit]

LostInThought, If I may quote you here respectfully and add to it for others here, so I can make my point and elaborately add here upon yours...

That is exactly how I see things, as The Great Spirit/God created things to be to evolve and that in our involvement and passive interactions with Natures animals (Nature Earth-Mother), All the living things created upon the earth by God The Father and it is in my strong beliefs in this and Him and my high regard and respect for natures environment and creatures wee and Large, and that understanding is why I and others understand and communicate with Nature as in with our Animal Spirit Totems, and if in others or myself if I chose to a lacking of all the respect and acknowledging of all including the Great Spirit that is the reasons that many do not even see past their own self due to the Human Greed Factor and self absorption… If you don’t respect and believe in People, people will not in return respect and believe in you, and so is it as with Animals and God in this respect and in the interactions of all, we need to think in terms of circles and blending and respecting and not in square cubes of self confining and walls built up of fears and greed’s, it is in these Walls of cubes that are the confinements of life, physical and Spiritual…

Thank you...

Pavot

What is this ramble that makes no sense? First off, much like the rest of your post, it is irrelevant to the quoted statement from , you go from 'I agree with you' to 'I communicate through animal spirit totems'

Anyway,

"If you don’t respect and believe in People, people will not in return respect and believe in you" please explain to me why it is so important to have others believe in you. Will you die if people don't believe in you? Will the world end if people don't believe in you? Will your feelings get hurt if people don't respect you? Give me a break.

One thing god god believing people always seem to do is NOT listen to what science says. Do they know science is always right? Someone who believes in god please tell me why you don't believe in science and stick to stories? The bible stories have the same credible factor as little red ridding hood.

Since everything about everything is written in the bible, why would 'god planned evolution' not be included? This is another statement made up from god believing people who are running out of ideas.

[RipeFRuit]

You are absolutely correct. Congrats!

If you are interested in knowing the truth about this controversial subject then here is a PDF.file attachement concerning my hypothesis on how everything came to be.

However, I must warn you that it might lobotomize you in the process or it may clear the shroud of misconceptions that the world has constructed around you since you were born.

Building lies to cover the truth.

Do not forget however, that this is just another theory after all. Most of all it is a theory thought up from a nobody such as myself who has great faith in God.

Don't forget that the greater your faith in God by obeying His commandments to the letter greater your are among other worldly people who transgress His laws.

On the other hand you might find this hypothesis to be closer to the actual events or truths compared to any other theories that happened to be washed up on the shores of wisdom on this planet.

Once you start reading my hypothesis you will notice that I had previously wrote to a theologian friend of mine about this controversial issue.

Note: Please read the bible passages that I have inserted to compare.

Password = Acadian

Enjoy!

Oakum

Not only do you jump to far fetched conclusions, this whole thing makes absolutely no sense.

[+DieChecker]

Why is it so hard to see the Jesus story itself as a myth, like the stories of Adam and Eve, Noah, and Abrahan, meant to teach us moral lessons and metaphorical truths, such as the transendence (dare I say resurrection?) of a higher spiritual self over the material egotistical self.

Maybe because Jesus lived two thousand years ago and Adam and Noah at least are supposed to have lived 6,000+ years ago. The more recent something is the more likely it is for people to believe it was real and not a myth. Perhaps Jesus is reaching that age.

There is no archeological proof of the existance of Jesus or any of the 12 apostles, Mary magdalene or other characters of the new testament.

Then there is no proof of just about anyone existing till the time of pictures. Having a half dozen eyewitnesses write down their story is not good enough?

It was a jewish adaptation of the Dionysius myth popular in the greek mystery religions, which itself was brought to Greece by Pythagorus (not only a mathematician, but a mystic), who had visit Egypt and witnessed the Egyptian Osiris ritual, with the resurrected son-God Horus (Hence, Horus Christos - the original Jesus Christ) and then adapted it to Greek sensibilities using Dionysius.

Yeah, I've heard this before and I don't buy it. Resurrection was a key event in many ancient religions. And, I believe it was Osiris that was resurrected and then had the child Horus with Issis. It was Horus who then took down Set who murdered Osiris. Please tell me if there is another angle on that?

St. Paul actually taught this Gnostic version of Chrisitianity - he sometimes chastises other churches for not preparing believers to see behind the story to the fundamental truths....however, quite unfortunately, the "literalists" won out with their version of a real historical Jesus, thus allowing the Church hierarchy to have a monopoly on interpretation of a externalized Christ figure, rather than having individuals try to find their own "inner Christ" through self-medition and realization

I have to disagree. Jesus was not about people "thinking" themselves to a better place, but about actually making a better world by helping others, loving others and by simply believing and trusting in Him. The gnostic sects were considered heretic by those who followed what had been laid down as Christian before 200 AD. Most of the gnostic works were written hundreds of years after the rest of the Old Testement and mostly by Greeks who wanted to have more of a "mystery religion", like they had in their past. Jesus did not want any mystery in his teachings.

Edited July 14, 2008 by DieChecker

[Lt_Ripley]

Then there is no proof of just about anyone existing till the time of pictures. Having a half dozen eyewitnesses write down their story is not good enough?

that's not true. we know Julius Ceaser existed. lots of history , statues...... but there is nothing written about Jesus that is an eyewitness account . not from the multitude of historians of his day that wrote a ton of things.

logically someone who's tale , like jesus's, that upset the Romans and the high priests would definitely had made headlines during his day --- yet not a peep.

I have to disagree. Jesus was not about people "thinking" themselves to a better place, but about actually making a better world by helping others, loving others and by simply believing and trusting in Him. The gnostic sects were considered heretic by those who followed what had been laid down as Christian before 200 AD. Most of the gnostic works were written hundreds of years after the rest of the Old Testement and mostly by Greeks who wanted to have more of a "mystery religion", like they had in their past. Jesus did not want any mystery in his teachings.

Jesus didn't come to make it a better place. Actually he only came to preach for the Jews. He didn't care for gentiles. Called them dogs and told his apostles NOT to preach to gentiles.

what christianity is now isn't from Jesus but Paul .......... while Jesus was alive he had no intention to preach to gentiles.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Lt_Ripley

[crtDzyn]

Looks like my wife

[+DieChecker]

what christianity is now isn't from Jesus but Paul .......... while Jesus was alive he had no intention to preach to gentiles.

Jesus spoke to both the Samaritans (Who were considered gentiles, or worse, by the other Jews) and the Romans, and performed miracles for both. One Roman officer came to Him for his son was dying and Jesus sent him home to his healed son. So I believe what you are saying is not true. His message was for everyone. He sent out the Apostles to spread the Good News everywhere. It just happened that the area Jesus traveled in was predominately Jewish. He could not have done the things He did or been where He needed to be, if He had traveled to Persia or Greece or Egypt. Those trips would have taken too long for what He was told to do.

Paul did do more then any other Apostle that is for sure.

Just because the Romans did not collect stories of Jesus does not mean he was not there. There was no need to make a note of what seemed a local demagogue and religious criminal. Did the Romans write down the names of everyone that they crucified or put into slavery?? No. Otherwise we would know about thousands and thousands of criminals, and officials all over the Roman world from that time. It was not until almost a century latter when the "cult" had begun to spread through what is now Turkey that the Romans decided to persucute and deride the Christians. By then the only, and best, history of Jesus was in the New Testement.

[Piney]

Some people never seem to consider that God and Evolution could work hand in hand. God could be the power behind Evolution!

In a nutshell, evolution IS intelligent design. That is my belief.

That is why evolution fits right in American Indian spirituality. There is no "set doctrine". Just the "Being That is All Things" set everything in motion. Christianity's "set doctrine" doesn't allow for it to grow.

Lapiche