What? Proof of Creationism You Say?

[Monkyburd]

Alright, I just sped-read through some 31 fricken pages of Creationism/Evolution Debate and I am FAMISHED! There are some devout folks out there!

Anyways, my sub-question is this;

If people provide scientific proof that creationism is the true way things began, aren't they hurting their argument by providing PROOF when religion is based on FAITH? Isn't faith belief of something despite overwhelming evidence against it, against what others say, against everything that tells us otherwise?

Isn't that the true power of religion?

[X~File_Agent]

Actually what they'll probably come back with is the fact, that by providing proof, it shows their faith was right all along and that a god does truly exist. Even if they find out, he's real. I don't think they'll stop worshiping him.

If i missed your point let me know.

[Xenojjin]

I doubt proving gods existance would break the faith people have in god , it would just require less faith to believe in him .

[PsychicPenguin]

It will no longer be faith, but knowledge.

[Monkyburd]

Okay, my real question has to rely of the idea that science and religion are opposite forces that will never coexsist. And, they each have certain requirements...

Science-relies soley on proof, evidence, and universal laws that cannot be broken

Religion-Blind Faith regardless of disregarding proof, can never be questioned and doesn't rely on the elements of science.

Therefor, it is contradictory to PROVE God and the bible is real. You don't need any proof, you know it is true because your faith DEMANDS it be true regardless. Let science keep proof and evidence, the faith doesn't need it.

Belief is all the proof you need... I hope that this makes sense.

[PsychicPenguin]

Not every relligion is based on faith. We always have the notion that relligion = christianity and God = the bible God, and even use lowercase for other Gods.

[Talon]

A new Argument...(Sigh)

If you didn't want another argument why start the thread?

Anyway, I love the evolution vs. religion debates, cause it lasts forever and lets you get lots of posts, plus since so many people answer in them you get to meet lots of people

[Aslan]

Anyway, I love the evolution vs. religion debates, cause it lasts forever and lets you get lots of posts...

Of course, the purpose is not simply to 'get lots of posts'; it's not a contest. But everybody knew that.

[X~File_Agent]

Well it is a contest to see who wins the debate

Hopefully this website will be up for years to come, because I don't see people admitting they've lost anytime soon

But I'm sure if Aslan, takes that new scientific pill, he'll be able to mod this forum for another 5000 years.

Edited March 6, 2004 by X~File_Agent

[Talon]

Of course, the purpose is not simply to 'get lots of posts'; it's not a contest. But everybody knew that.

Well I was joking

Except for the bit about meeting peeps

Well it is a contest to see who wins the debate

Can never really win a religious debate because its one of those arguements that you can never convert some (even if I am always right ), as I think Joc and I have done a hundreds times over, just called 'agree to disagree' or go on forever

[crosswarrior]

Everyone has a certain amount of tolerence that they can extend to an opposing side; but eventually everyone comes to the point where to compromise further would mean to betray one's belief or creed. The for both sides it becomes a Crusade and a Holy War; in which there is no rules of engagement. And then the only check on the fight is the fury of the storm that is in the soul of the combatants.

[Nxt2Hvn]

WOW... 10 replies...

Mmmmm.. you sure can tell I didn't start this thread... because it hasn't been LOCKED yet!

Oops!!!!... But now that I have replied... won't be long now!

[DC09]

I doubt proving gods existance would break the faith people have in god , it would just require less faith to believe in him .

I also doubt that if God was ever 'proven' to exist, people would all of a sudden stop being atheistic.

They'd think of some excuse, I'm sure.

[PsychicPenguin]

If God is proven to exists, there will be no atheists, but there will be more satanists.

[X~File_Agent]

Kellalor

I also doubt that if God was ever 'proven' to exist, people would all of a sudden stop being atheistic.

They'd think of some excuse, I'm sure.

That goes both ways.

Personally, if I see proof without a doubt, that there exist a God. It would be stupid of me to deny his existence. However would that mean, that I would worship him? No.

However if there's significant proof that there is NO God. Then I hope Christians would be open minded enough to accept that. Of course I'm sure they will come up with an excuse or find something else to worship.

[DC09]

Kellalor

I also doubt that if God was ever 'proven' to exist, people would all of a sudden stop being atheistic.

They'd think of some excuse, I'm sure.

That goes both ways.

True.

But thats not something we have to worry about, since there's not really a way to prove or disprove either.

[X~File_Agent]

Kellalor

But thats not something we have to worry about, since there's not really a way to prove or disprove either.

At least not now...... muaaahhahaha

[ambyglam]

I also doubt that if God was ever 'proven' to exist, people would all of a sudden stop being atheistic.

They'd think of some excuse, I'm sure.

i think u need to word better, excuse implys that we r too lazy to believe in god, i think u meant to say reason, because there are many people who do not believe in god for many different reasons, such as, they are a believer in one of the bigger, older religions of the world which pre-dates christianity!

just a word of caution about wording to save some nippy annoying member having a go at u, like they do to me over my spelling!

[debipatnaik]

proving the existence of God will not break the faith.Because all the religions exist only to prove his existence. rather God should be explored to the deepest.he who will prove his existence will have reached him and there is no come back.One has to find for homself. It is a very dificult course and every religiopn has shown the path and thre are masters to guide . But proof of his existence can not be shown to everyone. He does not reveal himself like this. if you are a Christian then you know if that were the case jesus would have shown everybody the one and only God.

By believing you dont enhance his existence and by not believing you dont lessen it either.

[Universal Absurdity]

How could you 'prove' the existence of god without being able to produce god?

proving creation does not necessarily prove god's existence, rather it would prove that something other than a human created humans.

The argument over if there is a god or not is rather tiresome, only because the definition of god differs depending on who you are talking to.

For those who are religious (mostly) god is a being that is above everything, god is the ultimate ruler and judge, both omnipotent, and omnipresent. And he resides in a place called heaven, where we go to when we die to face his judgement.

I however think its a load of crap. In my opinion, God is everything that there is. Including yourself. you just happen to be a free willed thinking part of god. And about creation... What does it really matter? we're all here , and we'll all probably die before any real proof of what put us here comes to light.

[debipatnaik]

You can not create the creator. If you want a proof then it is this-you are here because he created you. You say everything is his cration,You are right.But everything will decay oneday. all the scriptures say God is omnipotent.He has no begining and no end.Hence what decays can not be god. if there is the presence in you it leaves you the moment you die.

many have already proven his existence.that is why all these religions are there.

There is no point in disputing his existence.If you want the proof try yourself.You can not proove him by reading books or arguing or even by faith.

[Universal Absurdity]

You can not create the creator. If you want a proof then it is this-you are here because he created you.

Proof requires something other than faith and your belief.

But everything will decay oneday. all the scriptures say God is omnipotent.He has no begining and no end.Hence what decays can not be god.

Anything that has mass is made up of energy.

I refer to the very well known equation E=Mc^2 which translates to (for the layman) energy is equal to the mass of an object multiplied by the speed of light squared.

Energy cannot be destroyed, it can only change form (as to wether energy can be created, that debate is open as far as I'm concerned)

if there is the presence in you it leaves you the moment you die.

Again, do you have any proof? If you are going to reply with opinions please make it clear, that is what you are posting; your opinions.

many have already proven his existence.that is why all these religions are there.

Then why would this subject still be up for debate? All these religions? That, is proof in itself that there is no proof. If there were why would there be a need for so many religions if there were one true god? I would think if god proved 'his' existence to so many 'he' would have been a bit clearer as opposed to the many interpretations that people have come up with about 'him'.

If you want the proof try yourself.You can not proove him by reading books or arguing or even by faith

Are you arguing my point back at me?

[shirini]

Science-relies soley on proof, evidence, and universal laws that cannot be broken

Religion-Blind Faith regardless of disregarding proof, can never be questioned and doesn't rely on the elements of science.

You know there are people who believe in God and participate in Org, religious functions, but don't believe in Creationism. And it doesn't chip away from the faith in the Almighty one bit.

[debipatnaik]

universalabsurdity faith and beilief are the first ingredients before the God reveals himself.oes not your Bible teaches that to you.

about the many religions ,they all proclaim the same thing-the one supreme being.The different religions are like different paths leading to the ultimate goal.You can take the path of your choice.but as I have already told there is no shortcut.The ways are there as described by the great teachers of all religions like the jesus the Mohmad,the Krishna etc... Now nobody can show you the God just to satisfy your belief. You may not believe him till yopu see for yourself,that is perfectly fine.But you can not dispute his existence because you have not seen him in flesh and blood.Because there has been others who have seen him and they have also led others in the same poth.

about mass and energy equation I entirely agree with you.It remains the same.As I have already told you God is not destructible.he remains in one form or the other and the sum total is always the same.

[Seraphina]

universalabsurdity faith and beilief are the first ingredients before the God reveals himself.oes not your Bible teaches that to you.

You know...the fact that god only "reveals himself" to those who already utterly believe in his existance doesn't do much to counter the arguements of sceptics. If you already wholeheartedly believe in god, then what you consider signs of his existance are bound to be very open to interpretation