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Monkyburd

What? Proof of Creationism You Say?

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saucy

Bob was walking to school one day with his model of the solar system. He happened to walk by the principal's office with his model and caught his eye. Mr. Lambert, a confessed athiest caught up with Bob. "That's a wonderful solar system Bob. Who created it?" asked the balding principal. "Nobody created it," started Bob wryly. "It just formed itself that way!"

Hmmmmm, sounds unlogical right? Okay, then look at the theory of evolution and the big bang. Science has no answer for how life on earth started. Evolution can only work with systems that are already functioning. By definition, which does not function simply cannot evolve. It is impossible for inanimate matter to produce biological systems by evolution.

Creatures can only reproduce with their own kind. It's the fundamental rule of genetics. Each organism has a unique DNA structure. Careful breeding can emphasize or minimize certain characteristics within genotypes, but no amount of cross-pollination can cause a whole new life-form to arise from that species to exist. Attempting to cross breed an oak tree with a fungus wouldn't produce any offspring whatsoever, much less a whole new species. It's fair to say that this idea debunks and refutes the very heart of evolution. Plants cannot bring forth anything but more plants with the characteristics inherited from its parents. Trees can only produce similar trees. Animals can produce only animals of their own kind. The offspring may have slightly different characteristics than the parents, but those characteristics, nonetheless, will be created from the parent's genetic make-up. Crossbreeding cannot produce new species. Plant life cannot bring animal life.

I have more information for you. Scientists believe that the earth and other planets were created from the sun when it suddenly exploded, sending matter outward the the sun's gravity held it in place. If it were true, we might expect Earth, Mars, Venus and Mercury to have the same or similar compositions as the sun. They don't. Ninety-eight percent of the sun is hydrogen and helium. Less than one percent of the elements on the planets are hydrogen and helium. The planets themselves are all different, unique in their make-up. In addition, Venus, Uranus, and Pluto all spin the opposite direction from the rest of the planets. The moons of the various planets orbit in different directions and on different routes. All that diversity is the fingerprint of a creator. Most of the other stars in the universe change size, this the twinkling effect. The pulse, changing sizes. If the sun were to pulse, grow of shrink any percentage, life on earth would disappear. If the earth were created by the sun, it's characteristics would be exactly the same as the moon. How can life have started on earth in the beginning when daytime temperatures reached 215 degrees F in the sun and -250 at night. Wasn't the moon a part of the earth that broke off? Why didn't it piece together the same characteristics of the earth? It's also funny how the moon's exact distance from the earth and size plays a vital role in our planet's ecosystem by balancing them out. Also explain how the moon doesn't have the same make-up as the earth. Okay, they were different slabs of matter and the earth caught the moon. The moon virtually orbits the same distance from the sun. How come there's no life on the moon?

Could the stars and moon play a different role in our solar system than we think? For thousands of years, sailors and every kind of traveler has used the stars to navigate. Just think of the Zodiac. Certain stars are in different phases throughout the year. Were the stars used to determine the time of year here on earth? The moon has different phases throughout the month. The pulse of all human life is governed and regulated by the heavenly bodies. They set our calendars, determine the length of the year, divide the year into seasons, and mark the passage of our day and night. The length of the day and night are in perfect harmony with our sleep patterns. Imagine if they days were longer, how much sleep we would lose. The variation in daytime temperatures would be dramatically altered. All life on earth is perfectly suited to a twenty-four hour day and according the scripture, that is because the same Creator who made all living things also determined and fixed the length of our days. Think of it, the rotation of the earth on it's axis is what determines a twenty-four hour day. The moon's orbit around the earth determines our month. The earth's rotation around the sun is a year. Interestingly, there is nothing that determines a week in our celestial universe. Where did that come from? The week God produced in Genesis. It was the period in time when God created all the universe and ever since has humanity used it to mark time. Funny how it's all in perfect motion, working together, the way God made it.

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saucy

sorry the last response was so long. I'm trying to answer everyone's questions and I have more answers.

God controls everything, except our free will, the power to choose. God has chosen a path for each of us, but it's up to us where we go. In Eden, God allowed mankind to eat from all the trees in the garden except for one. The tree was there because man had a choice. God gave us the choice, His kingdom or not, it's up to you. Scriptures say God tempts no one, instead we are drawn away by our own lusts and then enticed. The tree was only a test, a test we failed horribly. It was Satan that enticed mankind. The serpent was Satan. He is the father of lies and creator of deceit. Yes, God created Satan, but it was Satan who grew the ego because God made him the most beautiful of all the angels. He turned against God with his freewill and was cast down. It's satan, again, that tempts man. His rebellion brought death to many, but it also highlighted the truth, that there is no good thing outside God's will. Now, creation has seen first hand the consequences of rebelling against God and the absolute realization that all things must come under God. God allows man to go his own destructive way, but is taking out those who have chosen to obey him and live in his way. This will leave only the rightous in the end. It says in the bible that the days will shorten in the last days.....

What about human suffering? Is it God's fault that people are suffering today? No. Whether born on a rubbish pile or into royalty, people suffer. If I live on an island with two hundred people and 199 of those people cut down all the trees and pollute the only good water we have, I'm forced to live in those conditions. Those conditions were created by mankind. It's mankind who destroyed what was once paradise, what God created for us. It's our own fault we have to live in it.

You want to sit there and blame God for all your problems or not believe in God because it's much easier not too (yeah right) then you have some problems. The only reason not to believe is because you want to live your life the way you want to. Look at the proof I've given you and there's much more than that that God does exist ladies and gentleman. The end days are coming. What's so hard about following God's will. Yes, God does punish mankind for not following his way. What's his way? What are his rules? They're simple and easy to follow. If everyone followed these rules, it's easy to say that mankind would have a perfect society. Lying leads to corruption and deceit, murder leads to terror, sexual immorality leads to abortion (murder), unwanted pregnancy and disease. Stealing is wrong, we've all known that since we were kids. I don't have to go over the ten commandments and the rules of God. There aren't very many. People just don't want to follow. It's up to you. Turn your head if you wish, but look deeper into things before you do. There is punishment for those who are sinful. If that makes God a lunatic, then so be it, but next time someone steals from you, lies to you, kills someone you love, don't go out looking for punishment. Look to reward him and his crime.

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bathory

Science has no answer for how life on earth started. Evolution can only work with systems that are already functioning. By definition, which does not function simply cannot evolve. It is impossible for inanimate matter to produce biological systems by evolution.

for the 50 millionth time

Science has an answer for how life started, it is called the Theory of Abiogenesis, there is evidence that supports this theory, there is no evidence to support creationism. Seeing that you think Evolution has something to do with abiogenesis, i'm going to assume (because there was a heck of allot to read) that everything else is pretty much the standard creationist response, in which case my rebuttal will be a big old fashioned

No to everything else you have typed, i mean really, you demonstrate you lack even the most basic understanding of evolution.

It's fair to say that this idea debunks and refutes the very heart of evolution.

really? because a cat and a dog can't breed to create a catdog, evolution is bunk? puh-lease

In addition, Venus, Uranus, and Pluto all spin the opposite direction from the rest of the planets.

how is this relevant?

The moon virtually orbits the same distance from the sun. How come there's no life on the moon?

well mr space expert, you do realise that the moon doesn't have a strong enough gravity to sustain an atmosphere? i also doubt much of the other examples, however i don't really have much knowledge of space etc so i don't think i shall comment further:)

All life on earth is perfectly suited to a twenty-four hour day and according the scripture, that is because the same Creator who made all living things also determined and fixed the length of our days.

life evolved to the amount of sunlight available, not how many hours, how much light is available came first, if days had been longer, life could possibly have evolved to use that instead.

your entire logic seems to be that the environment somehow perfected itself for life, while in reality, life perfected itself for the environment.

God controls everything, except our free will, the power to choose.

god controls everything, if he doesn't he then ceases to be the christian god (or a god for that matter, i can't be bothered looking up a definition), for God to be all knowing there can be no free will, all knowing implies time is linear and there is no room for divergence (alternative it could mean that that there are an infinite amount of universes, but this is irrelevant because everyone within these universes will still be stuck to a set timline), if there is free will God can't know everything which as shown would mean he isn't the God defined in the bible. Last time i'm gonna explain that:)

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Monkyburd

whistling2.gif The number one reason people don't believe the idea of evolution is because they don't understand it.

Its very simple really, and very reasonable. Since its based on science, it has a few underlying unbreakable rules. I agree with bathory 100%

Religion is not really simple.

When humanity began the world was a scary place. We didn't know what lurked beyond the yonder hills, what powerful forces created the night and day, or why people died randomly after getting a insect bite. crying.gif

Hence, we created myths and fables to explain what we could not understand. Later, these myths and ideas evolved into religions such as ancient greek mythology and eventually others like Judism and Christianity. At least that's how I see it to be. ohmy.gif

Then, low and behold we began to use science to understand the world. We classified the animals, discovered new worlds such as america, and uncovered the power of microscopic diseases and so forth. And it was good. Can I get an Amen? original.gif

Now, it seems to me that religion is,... obselete. Where religion comforts, science explains and controls. I believe Religion was the training wheels on the bike that is humanity, and science needs to let them go in favor of greater speed.

Religion is getting in the way of a better more efficient humanity.

But, religion is so far embedded in our world right now, it will take some time for it to evolve out of society. It slowly has begun, like evolution, and will continue to filter out for the next hundred years.

Edited by Monkyburd

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Venomshocker

The number one reason people don't believe the idea of evolution is because they don't understand it.

Hahaha, I understand evoloution very well. I know exactly how its supposed to work. I still dont believe it. No one can sceintifically prove it. And that to me, shows evidence of a creator. original.gif

Yes religon is complicated, thats what makes it so much fun. original.gif

Nice going so far trublvr, Im reading all ur posts;very interesting.Theres not too many people that can explain biblical things like you. wink2.gif

Edited by Venomshocker

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aquatus1

Bob was walking to school one day with his model of the solar system. He happened to walk by the principal's office with his model and caught his eye. Mr. Lambert, a confessed athiest caught up with Bob. "That's a wonderful solar system Bob. Who created it?" asked the balding principal. "Nobody created it," started Bob wryly. "It just formed itself that way!"

Mr. Lambert sadly shook his head and thought "No wonder that boy believes in Creationism.", then went to have a talk with his science teacher.

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Seraphina

No one can sceintifically prove it. And that to me, shows evidence of a creator.

By that very same arguement, nobody can prove the existance of a creator, scientifically or otherwise tongue.gif At least science has actually tried to offer evidence for what it says is the truth, makes an attempt at finding out the real truth.

Creationism doesn't solve any problems....it sure doesn't answer any questions. It seems that most people argue the case for God's existance claiming "life couldn't have sprung out of nowhere".

Not withstanding that science has already answered the question of how the first organic matter was created (abiogenesis), God couldn't have "sprung up" out of nowhere either...creationism raises just as many questions as evolution does, if not more, and makes far less effort to answer them.

Although I do invite Mr trublvr to keep throwing scripture...I'm actually enjoying finding the infinite contradictions in it cool.gif

Edited by Seraphina

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Venomshocker

By that very same arguement, nobody can prove the existance of a creator, scientifically

I agree.

You make it sound like sceince is agaisnt religon. Theres plenty of christian people who believe in evoloution and a God. I choose not too believe in evoloution because of the lack of sceintific proof.

Do you somehow think sceince is anti-religon? Many,many respectable sceintists believe in a God, physists, biologists,chemists,etc. Dont try to make science seem like its against God or religon. Its not! Or that religon or God is against sceince. You cant group all people who believe in God into one category, and all who dont into the sceintific category. Thats impossible.And inacurate. And no offence, a very immature thing to do.

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aquatus1

Science has no answer for how life on earth started. Evolution can only work with systems that are already functioning. By definition, which does not function simply cannot evolve. It is impossible for inanimate matter to produce biological systems by evolution.

There is an entire field known as abiogenesis that deals with theories as to how life began on Earth. As you said, Evolution only works on living creature; it says nothing about how life began. It is theorietically possible for inanimate matter to create biological systems (this has been proven in the laboratories); wether or not it happened that way still needs to be answered by abiogenesis scientists.

Creatures can only reproduce with their own kind. It's the fundamental rule of genetics. Each organism has a unique DNA structure. Careful breeding can emphasize or minimize certain characteristics within genotypes, but no amount of cross-pollination can cause a whole new life-form to arise from that species to exist. Attempting to cross breed an oak tree with a fungus wouldn't produce any offspring whatsoever, much less a whole new species. It's fair to say that this idea debunks and refutes the very heart of evolution.

Wait a minute. First you say that, according to science, different species cannot interbreed. Then you say that because two different species cannot interbreed, evolution must be wrong. How does that make sense? Evolution isn't Greek mythology; you can't put two animals at a love spring and expect a new one to pop out.

Scientists believe that the earth and other planets were created from the sun when it suddenly exploded, sending matter outward the the sun's gravity held it in place. If it were true, we might expect Earth, Mars, Venus and Mercury to have the same or similar compositions as the sun. They don't.

This is wrong on so many levels I'm not sure were to begin. I'll skip the whole creation of a galaxy and go straight to your point on composition. Have you ever seen an explosion in a movie? You see the big flame, the cloud of smoke, the pieces of car, building, whatever, zooming away and crashing at a fair distance? This is what happens in an explosion. The heavy stuff shoot far away, the light stuff stays pretty close. We most certainly would NOT expect the planets to have similar compositions, because that would violate what we know of physics. This is simple observation, and I would be interested in knowing how you can justify such a counter-intuitive idea.

In addition, Venus, Uranus, and Pluto all spin the opposite direction from the rest of the planets. The moons of the various planets orbit in different directions and on different routes. All that diversity is the fingerprint of a creator.

Planets spin in the direction most of the mass fell onto them as they were formed. Same thing with moons. It's all statistically random. Same thing with the orbits around the sun; they tilt at different angles. How is randomness the sign of a designer?

Most of the other stars in the universe change size, this the twinkling effect.

If you believe that stars 'twinkle' because they are changing size, you need to stop posting and start paying attention in science class. Stars 'twinkle' because the light that we see from them fluctuates as it passes through our atmosphere. When you are in orbit, or on the moon, stars don't 'twinkle'. It is extremely evident that you haven't even bothered with a high school level understanding of astronomy. I won't bother commenting on those arguments anymore.

The length of the day and night are in perfect harmony with our sleep patterns. Imagine if they days were longer, how much sleep we would lose. The variation in daytime temperatures would be dramatically altered. All life on earth is perfectly suited to a twenty-four hour day and according the scripture, that is because the same Creator who made all living things also determined and fixed the length of our days.

Okay, so God decreed a 24 hour day? Are you sure of that? Guess what, we aren't 24 hour creatures. It has been tested several times in several different ways. When we are without time reference, such as in a deep cave or in a deep sea habitat, our bodies, over the period of 7-10 days, adapt to a 25 hour clock. Not a 24 hour clock, a 25 hour clock. How then, does this apply to scripture?

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trublvr

All,

Greetings to you all. Out of all the interesting stuff that has come out of this thread, the most fascinating for me has been the powerful science verses religion undercurrent. As I've stated before in a previous post, there are a few REALLY BIG world-view issues that are underlying a lot of what we're saying (and, yes, they go beyond "There is/isn't a creator"!), and this is definitely one of them. There is a skewed view of the scientific enterprise here that has little to do w/ history, fact, or reality and a whole lot to do w/ a lot of myth that has run roughshod over many an intellect since the 19th century. It is surprising that many here only reserve application of the concept of myth to religious concerns, when in fact they are under its spell in the scientific realm. Perhaps a separate thread on science and religion from a philosophical and historical standpoint is needed...

Venomshocker, thanks for the encouragement. You da man yourself!

Although I do invite Mr trublvr to keep throwing scripture...I'm actually enjoying finding the infinite contradictions in it

Seraphina, you have not found contradictions w/ what I've said. What you've done is to take a stance of anti-foundationalism, whereby you refuse to even allow both of us to argue from a common, cogent standpoint. Central to any dialogue is some form of agreement on points held in common so that people can have a foundation upon wh/ to agree or disagree. This can be done with both party's worldviews being honestly represented. You, however, have refused any such stance, so dialogue is very difficult. It seems as if you think that to concede even one point is somehow tantamount to loosing a battle. This, however, is not the case. Nor is refusing to dialogue from common ground the same as the discovery of a contradiction. thumbsup.gif

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saucy

You guys believe in the scientific theory as if it's your religion. The thing with scientific theory is that it's always changing. Scientific theory contradicts scientific theory. Genetics defy genetics. Second law of thermodynamics contradicts evolution. The age of the earth is continuously being changed over and over again. The whole root of the big bang theory is that matter (however it got there, I'll never know) suddenly exploded during the creation of the sun and was shot outward. That's what happens when a star is born. As this matter was thrown outward, the sun's gravity started to pull it together. I've seen enough Discovery Channel to know that it's the theory used by scientists. There are so many theories out there that it's entirely plausable you've heard a different one than mine. This according to the Discovery Channel. It's all supposed to be the same material, but it's not. Aquatis, you're theory is wrong then. Certainly the rocky matter is heavier than gas, but it's the rocky planets that are closer to the sun, then the gas giants, but Pluto is a rocky planet and it's further also. Your theory is wrong dear watson. I don't know what you know about physics, but when hydrogen explodes, oxygen doesn't shoot forward. Hydrogen does. Also, if all the matter in the solar system was thrown out at the same time (which is weird if you think about it, how can some matter get further than other matter during the same explosion while some stays near the sun, such as Mercury?) then all the planets should be made of the same material and caught onto the sun's gravity and rotate the same direction. I don't know if that makes sense, but it does to me. IN order or evolution to work, you're going to have to break every rule, as I've described above. Before you make a huge decision in your life such as not believing in God, make sure you know what you're talking about because the scientists don't even know. Theories change every second and I'm willing to bet that there are thousands of different theories, though the scriptures stand strong. They've never changed and it makes sense to those who believe it.

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Nethius

so lets say we find life (bacteria, etc) on mars? what would this mean to religous folk? did god try to create life there, screw up, and start over with earth? (we will eventually find atleast this type of life, maybe not mars, but somewhere other then earth)

the universe is freaking huge, why create such an elaberate place, when all that is needed is one planet and a sun?

if a god existed, we would all know this (if he wanted us to believe) why let us guess? does he want us to go to hell? cause remember if you're not christian, that's where you're going!

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saucy

I've said before that life is a test. God is testing to see if we really have faith. God doesn't want us to go to hell, but the free will thing. If he were to show himself right now to everyone on earth, how many would believe it? Apparently not many because God has shown himself many times and Jesus himself did so many "magic tricks" healing people, turning water into wine, feeding a thousand people with a single basket of fish and bread, walking on water, being born to a virigin, being killed then coming back to life and eventually ascending into heaven. Some say that Jesus was a fraud or he didn't exist, but he did. Thousands have encountered his miracles and now millions, even billions recognize him as the true Lord and savior. Even if you can explain everything written, nobody can explain all the propecy written about him a thousand years before he was born. Every single prophecy came true. They aren't vague propehicies either. Everything from where he was born, to how he would die, many of the miracles he would do, his whole life. Tell me that's a coincidence. I think not. All of this has happened, but still there are disbelievers. It's up to you what to believe.

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bathory

saucy. everything you have said about evolution has shown you don't understand evolution, before you go adding new stuff to the arguement, i want to hear you admit that you don't understand evolution and are most likely looking at a creationist website and giving us random 'facts', i mean, evolution defying the 2nd law of thermodynamics is wrong on so many levels.

it seems that when real evidence is required, creationists will fall back on the bible and produce scripture as if it means something.

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debipatnaik

Not withstanding that science has already answered the question of how the first organic matter was created (abiogenesis), God couldn't have "sprung up" out of nowhere either...creationism raises just as many questions as evolution does, if not more, and makes far less effort to answer them.

Seraphina this theory of abiogenesis is not final as you also admit. Not because it is disputed by believiers in creationism alone. A scientific theory to hold good must submit emperical evidence and stand the tests of scientific analysis . Even assuming that it is the one which answers everything there are still some questions which are of great significance.

What does the theory say about the life force? That is what differentiates living from non living in the most elementary sence.

If creation happens automatically then why can not one creat his one time,place and situation of taking birth. Do we have any choice or foreknowledge.If we had why one is borne a beggar and anathor in the laps of luxury? In my view if we have absolute freedom in deciding our own cretaion why dont we create us the way we want or rather the way most of us would have ideally wanted?

Edited by debipatnaik

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bathory

What does the theory say about the life force? That is what differentiates living from non living in the most elementary sence.

the life force?

here's a nice definition of what 'life' is courtesy of dictionary.com (these are the relevant ones)

life ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lf)

n. pl. lives (lvz)

The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

The characteristic state or condition of a living organism.

Seraphina this theory of abiogenesis is not final as you also admit.

noones saying its the final answer, we are saying it is supported by evidence, unlike creationism

If creation happens automatically then why can not one creat his one time,place and situation of taking birth. Do we have any choice or foreknowledge.If we had why one is borne a beggar and anathor in the laps of luxury? In my view if we have absolute freedom in deciding our own cretaion why dont we create us the way we want or rather the way most of us would have ideally wanted?

this is kind of nonsensical, can you rephrase it or something? i really don't understand what you are trying to say

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saucy

Another person thinks I'm biased an uneduacted...... crying.gif

I spent my whole life defending evolution! I've said it I don't know how many times. I've only been Christian for about two months. Why would I suddenly change my views and my life unless something miraculous and godly has happend to me? I am a pastor at my church in Michigan and I came to Texas on vacation before I started my Sunday evening services to discover myself and the truth. For most of my schooling education, I've heard nothing but evolution theories and theories on how old the earth is and carbon dating (which has been proven as a false way to date, I might add). How interesting is it that I have been able only in the last few months been looking at religion and I now see what's the truth and how unbelievably false evolution is. I've read many books, visited many wedsites and talk to so many experts. I've researching this stuff so you can't call me someone who just copied and pasted some stuff off a website. How much research have all of you done? Just what your teacher told you? I'm willing to bet that what you're sixth grade teacher teaches you about science is different than what your 12th grade teacher teaches.

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Seraphina

How much research have all of you done? Just what your teacher told you?

How much did you do, since you're still working with the very outdated agruement that the laws of therodynamics contradicting evolution; this arguement has been rebuked countless times all across scientific circles, and this very board. If you're still giving this arguement, then I can only assume your references weren't very good.

I am a pastor at my church in Michigan and I came to Texas on vacation before I started my Sunday evening services to discover myself and the truth

So...you were a pastor before you tossed evolution out of the window and accepted creationism? huh.gif Wow...what a....huge and dramatic change in your way of life...accepting something you already believed in huh.gif

How interesting is it that I have been able only in the last few months been looking at religion and I now see what's the truth and how unbelievably false evolution is.

That's very much how I veiw religion...I look at scientific explanations, which offer evidence, research, logical thinking....and then I look at religion, which offers a book, that's been proven to be full of mistranslations, contradictions, stories stolen from cultures that came before the bible was written (just with names and places changed)...it's just...absolutely amazing that people buy it huh.gif

Theories change every second and I'm willing to bet that there are thousands of different theories, though the scriptures stand strong. They've never changed and it makes sense to those who believe it.

I think you'll find this fact actually lends credit to science, rather than damning it.

You see, the difference between evolutionists and creationists is we want to know the truth tongue.gif You think you already know it, and think this so blindly that you don't require evidence in order to do so, and are willing to completely ignore evidence that would contradict you: Scrupture hasn't remained the same because it's "standing strong", it's remained the same because nobody cares whether it's really the truth or not.

Science has made mistakes, true...but we find and correct those mistakes. We make an effort to answer the questions we have, and in doing so come closer and closer to the truth on a near constant basis. If the truth really does lie at the end of the road, then science is the theory that's foraging towards it, and it's religion and creationism that are content to sit at the beginning exactly where they started huh.gif

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Monkyburd
wink2.gif Ahmen seraphina! Ahmen, is that what I'm looking to say? laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

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Stellar

You know... I have a hard time taking people who consider creationism more likely serious.

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bathory

you can research as much as you like, the problem is that you seem to be researching from the Kent Hovind Big Book of Bad Facts:)

you are spewing outdated creationist arguements which the majority of creationists who know what they are talking about don't even use, i mean really, you claim to have done research and then throw in the old 2nd law of thermodynamics line? this shows that you don't even understand what the 2nd Law of thermodynamics is, and in effect you don't even understand what evolution is.

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saucy

Wow! You caught me. I'm just a huge biased and stupid young man! I know nothing about evolution, even though it has been crammed down my throat all my years of school. I've only been graduated since January, so it's all still fresh in my mind. I just don't know which theory of evolution to believe! I certainly know that the 2nd law of thermodynamics means that all life and atoms and particles and everything created is breaking down. Everything breaks down over time. Evolution is the total opposite. Life is growing more and more towards perfection. We're not breaking down, but rather building up. That's my take on thermodynamics and evolution. If I'm wrong, I would like someone to please tell me what they are. Also, please tell me which theory of evolution I'm supposed to believe. There's just so many of them! wacko.gif

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bathory

Click Here

read, learn

I'm just a huge biased and stupid young man!

indeed:)

even though it has been crammed down my throat all my years of school.

obviously not crammed hard enough

I just don't know which theory of evolution to believe!

there is only one theory of evolution (i'm not sure if this is a sarcastic part, or you are being serious, its kinda hard to tell in the context of your other claims)

I certainly know that the 2nd law of thermodynamics means that all life and atoms and particles and everything created is breaking down.

here is what the 2nd law of thermodynamics is, nothing at all like what you think it is (the creationists 2nd law)

It says heat will not spontaneously flow from a colder body to a warmer one, or equivalently, that total entropy (a measure of useful energy) in a closed system will not decrease.

how does this apply to evolution? it doesn't

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saucy

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that I became a pastor later. I wasn't a pastor then began learning about creation. I switched from my old lifestyle first and changed my whole belief system literally over night. I came to Texas to learn more and to find the truth behind why I changed by belief system. I look at talking to you guys as a way for me to learn and grow. I admit I do not know everything or even a lot of all the information out there, but this is something I'm currently studying and in my mind, the creation side is winning because although you guys fight for evolution with all your hearts and mind, none of you have made any sense toward your side. Besides, Bathory, there are many many, probably near a thousand different theories on how life started and how humans evolved and how our earth became how it is today, including the theory that aliens came to earth and started the human race, or how about a rock from Mars, who at the time had life, came to earth and started to populate our planet and how a comet smashed into earth and started the friction needed to create life and how a lightning bolt struck the earth and started it and how a bacterial organism suddenly appeared in the ocean and started to mulitply and how humans first became humans in Africa, then it was the middle east, then it changed again to Asia. How about the age of the earth, changing repeatedly. It was two billion years old in 1900, 3.5 billion in the 1970's and now it's 4.5 billion. If carbon dating was the efficient tool in finding out the age of something, then they would've figured out the age of the planet a long time ago. besides, carbon dating has been proven uneffective recently after testing the dates of newly created items and it's carbon.

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Stellar

Oh and creationism is more probable than all those other theories huh? Oh, and the Bible is more accurate than carbon dating huH?

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