Paranormal groups falsifying credentials

[myghostnetwork]

Recently one of my group members came across a local paranormal group that claimed they were all "Certified Paranormal Investigators" from a school called Flamel College, now this "college" offers courses online, and gives out "diplomas" however it is not accredited in any way. now this same group also claims that they have a parapsychologist in the group (unless he is much older this is not possible in the United states) and then boasts affiliation with a parapsychology organization, that with just a little research we found out was founded by them and also has no real business in the field of parapsychology.

i want to know what everyone's opinion is on groups that are trying to sound professional by essentially lying to their clients? IMO this is a huge offense to those of us that are truly trying to help our clients. I completely understand having your members be "certified" on your groups standards, but this is claiming that there really is such thing as a "ghost hunting certification"

it just really burns me up, and i wish there was something that could be done to protect the clients that are looking for investigators. this is exactly why i tell anyone who is seeking help from a Paranormal Group, to DO RESEARCH before you choose your group, if something doesn't seem right, than it probably isn't

[MaggieDruydess]

It seems to be a growing problem and I too find it disturbing. My hope is that the interest in the paranormal and research among such people is a fad and will stop eventually. Alas all we can really do is cross our fingers and do what we can to warn and inform the pubilc.

[LIGhostChick]

There is no such thing as a Certified Ghost Hunters. You can't take a course to get a diploma telling you you're certified on a field that is one big theory. Plus who's to say what the right way to investigate is. To each their own. Any group claiming to be "certified" is a crock.

[Rosewin]

Everyone has a right to polish their own credentials in a field like paranormal research. That is until the field itself becomes more professionalized which requires specialized schooling at the academic level. All fields in existence including the more mundane ones have had to go through the same process. Look at medicine two hundred years ago. This of course might never happen within the field of paranormal research. In either case when dealing with anyone in this field regardless of their credentials all I can say is buyer beware.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Clovis

[myghostnetwork]

i thought about the fact that there is no actual certification and that you have to start somewhere, but what is the process to do so. There are schools that have (in the past) provided credited classes in "alternative sciences" Princeton University being one of them. its unfortunate that most of these courses dissolve after much public scrutiny.

i guess it is a moral thing for me, i don't see how someone could morally lie about their credentials.

[myghostnetwork]

It seems to be a growing problem and I too find it disturbing. My hope is that the interest in the paranormal and research among such people is a fad and will stop eventually. Alas all we can really do is cross our fingers and do what we can to warn and inform the pubilc.

i agree with you, but then it becomes an issue of "informing the public" or just simply "bashing a group for the sake of bashing" do you know what i mean?

[Mabon]

Hello Myghostnetwork.

Well if you want to get picky about it they might have a legal leg to stand on for calling themselves certified.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/certified

5. to award a certificate to (a person) attesting to the completion of a course of study or the passing of a qualifying examination.

Then again the person's who did it may believe that they are "certified" (like Board Certified or an equal term of legal weight.) by completing one of those on line courses and are ready to get out there and hunt some ghosts.

It does give a false impression but then again you have to be just as upset by the people who sell the certificates as the people dumb enough to pay for them.

I feel your frustration about it too. This past year I started a thread about paranormal investigators (not a concrete term) and how much they should be accountable for. The topic covered a lot of ground. Here is a link.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...=117214&hl=

Some of the things it covered was what kind of schooling or classes would be important for a investigator to have.

Regards,

Mabon.

Had the wrong OP. Duh!

Edited July 14, 2008 by Mabon

[Elite]

sounds like a scam to me

what has the world come to

faking courses in ghost hunting and giving out fake diplomas i bet you even have to pay!

[Moon Demon]

Honestly though, how would you know who is real and who isn't? LOL

[Ashe Romeo]

That's really bad. =/ I agree with you on the morality thing, it really ISN'T right...but the unfortunate thing is there really isn't a way to prove you're legit in that field. Darn...

E-Okay post within a post *blinks* glitch in the Matrix, I guess.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Ashe Romeo

[Radian]

i guess it is a moral thing for me, i don't see how someone could morally lie about their credentials.

I have to agree with you & think it's very much a morality issue. If it were me needing an investigation, I'd probably overlook any certifications (any thing on paper-considering the field,) and ask for references of past clients, anything that could maybe show some experience of this group..

Even though that in itself can be falsified, but I suppose I'd be left taking my chances if I believed what they were presenting to me was legit.

I think anytime someone needs to manipulate something to make it shine a little more is just that manipulating.. just my thoughts.

[Lord Storm]

You can only judge by results and perhaps word of mouth attestation preferably from someone you know. I think the main problem is it is all very well hunting ghost. Oh yea you have a ghost bye bye..... but people call in ghost hunters because they have a problem and want thier "Ghost" removed in some way. Ghost removal is a much more specialised field. Most Ghost hunter groups would probably scream and run as they often do on the TV, much to my amusement Sometimes it can take a lot more than saying some sweet prayer and telling them to head for the light.... As yet there is no easy way to regulate a subject which in the eyes of "common" views does not exist. Having said that I am curious as to who's common views, as easily 50% of the population will openly admit to believing in Ghosts or things of similar nature and I am sure that of the 50% who don't, some actually believe but wont say so people don't think they are mad. It is strange that a majority of the populous believe in spiritual phenomena yet theories such as "Super String Therory" is aparently more believeable even though most people on the planet would call it total b******s So why don't people get decried for believing in string theory well now isn't that an interesting question......... It's like an iceberg much more than meets the eye and people wonder why conspiracy theories come about!? Welcome to the world of the thought Police!

[LadyHay]

Lets not forget the groups that are doing the "certifying". That really burns me up. $500.00 for a course that is neither legitimate, nor very good.

[Radian]

True that, Lady!

[JustNormal]

You can only judge by results and perhaps word of mouth attestation preferably from someone you know. I think the main problem is it is all very well hunting ghost. Oh yea you have a ghost bye bye..... but people call in ghost hunters because they have a problem and want thier "Ghost" removed in some way. Ghost removal is a much more specialised field. Most Ghost hunter groups would probably scream and run as they often do on the TV, much to my amusement Sometimes it can take a lot more than saying some sweet prayer and telling them to head for the light.... As yet there is no easy way to regulate a subject which in the eyes of "common" views does not exist. Having said that I am curious as to who's common views, as easily 50% of the population will openly admit to believing in Ghosts or things of similar nature and I am sure that of the 50% who don't, some actually believe but wont say so people don't think they are mad. It is strange that a majority of the populous believe in spiritual phenomena yet theories such as "Super String Therory" is aparently more believeable even though most people on the planet would call it total b******s So why don't people get decried for believing in string theory well now isn't that an interesting question......... It's like an iceberg much more than meets the eye and people wonder why conspiracy theories come about!? Welcome to the world of the thought Police!

Good post, and WELCOME HOME!!!

[Lord Storm]

Good post, and WELCOME HOME!!!

Auw thanks ((JN))! too kind

[MasterPo]

Lets not forget the groups that are doing the "certifying". That really burns me up. $500.00 for a course that is neither legitimate, nor very good.

Agreed.

No one can be "certified" in the field for a fee (muchless via an online course).

I do believe certification of one kind or another is definately possible. But it has to be approached the same way as a professional business certification in that in has to include years of documented experience in the field, many hours of training, project/research work, and an exam.

If someone is offering a 1 or 2 night course for a fee that you end up being "certified" it's worthless IMO.

[JustNormal]

Auw thanks ((JN))! too kind

I know, Arent I just precious? LOL..((LS))..

[Syntax]

well let's not forget accreditation is a certification that the individual is sanctioned by a governing body...

of course a governing body implies that there is a set of standards, morals and criteria that individuals must follow to work in their chosen field...

seeing as none of these things exist in the paranormal field, I would suggest that these websites are acting illegally and should be shut down.

much like anyone trying to sell you property on the moon, these sites are selling you nothing more than dreams and something that does not belong to them...

[John from Lowell]

Lets not forget the groups that are doing the "certifying". That really burns me up. $500.00 for a course that is neither legitimate, nor very good.

I get the impression that it is just another money making business. Relying on the certifying process is a lot easier than developing one's discernment skills.

What the public needs to consider is common sense evaluation for services being offered by any group or professional. In my book that includes doctors, lawyers, and teachers of every kind.

At some point, what a person thinks for themself should be the determining factor for what affects that person. IMO naturally.

John

[MasterPo]

well let's not forget accreditation is a certification that the individual is sanctioned by a governing body...

of course a governing body implies that there is a set of standards, morals and criteria that individuals must follow to work in their chosen field...

The key word there is "standards" (under which I also include morals and work ethics).

There can be more than one certifiying body. Happens all the time in business for example. The issue comes down to who's standards are considered more valuable and therefore having a certification from B may be worth more than from A because of B's higher standards even those both A and B give certifications.

[myghostnetwork]

Lets not forget the groups that are doing the "certifying". That really burns me up. $500.00 for a course that is neither legitimate, nor very good.

I agree 100% they are basically stealing peoples money, and LIGhostchick said it well too, there is no industry standard, and i feel to truly be certified in a field, there has to be industry standards.

i also agree with Master Pro, some certifications are great, like the idea of certifying members of your own group, based on your own group's standards, basically showing your client that particular investigator did complete the studies they needed to be certified by that personal group.

but my biggest issue is creating an organization that is not real by any means, and then using that organization to make yourself sound better.

that would be like me going out right now and buying a web domain like paranormalinvestigatorsunion.com making up a fake site claiming we are a union of paranormal investigators and our members passed blah blah blah standards, they must be the best investigators in the area and we are extremely selective in choosing our members...

then going to my site and saying, proud member of the paranormal investigators union.

am i making sense here, i find that to be the most deceiving part

[Nile_Shaman]

but my biggest issue is creating an organization that is not real by any means, and then using that organization to make yourself sound better.

that would be like me going out right now and buying a web domain like paranormalinvestigatorsunion.com making up a fake site claiming we are a union of paranormal investigators and our members passed blah blah blah standards, they must be the best investigators in the area and we are extremely selective in choosing our members...

then going to my site and saying, proud member of the paranormal investigators union.

am i making sense here, i find that to be the most deceiving part

No deception at all. This is how fraternal and Trade organizations begin. I was on the Boards and a co-Founder for one for the independent book-selling industry and also a Pagan Emergency Services Group. They form up, they vote on by-laws and then establish standards which members agree to abide by, so a standard begins and can become known. Both were legally incorporated when we got to that point.

Now, it does become bogus if it is one member and totally just on paper/cyberspace, however, unless it makes money, you may not have much of a fraud case. Dopes will be dopes and anyone can incorporate a business or club.

The paranormal investigation industry isn't ready for this, yet. But, an unincorporated mutual agreement to a set standard which is published is probably way overdue. To get it done, though, the fighting and vying would have to stop and it would need to be useful for Joe Public's protections, but loose enough to allow for the vast diversity of groups out there, ranging from hobbyists to the serious researchers. If it works out, over time,the right time to take it farther will become obvious.

One of them was formed for precisely this problem and an effort to bolster the reputations of used booksellers and set standards. It gave the public a place to go, and know which sellers had signed on to the standards they could read for themselves. If a member failed, the organization also served to settle disputes when possible with the public. I don't advise the latter, however, one could function a bit like a chamber of commerce and file away complaints and praises and provide references from them as the files grew and time passed.

No legals needed to establish a set standard, make a logo stating you've signed onto them with an embedded link for people to read them, and start. It is gaining support and enough cooperation to make them in the first place which might be the trick.

We cannot even define what a PI is, as yet, so this will take a while and can become a very rancorous issue.

JMO

NS

[MasterPo]

but my biggest issue is creating an organization that is not real by any means, and then using that organization to make yourself sound better.

<SNIP>

then going to my site and saying, proud member of the paranormal investigators union.

As your group's reputation grows the value of your group's certification also grows. There's a reason why TAPS Family Membership has value (and not just because of the TAPS name recogition).

[LadyHay]

As your group's reputation grows the value of your group's certification also grows. There's a reason why TAPS Family Membership has value (and not just because of the TAPS name recogition).

Sorry, but the TAPS family membership? I know of a group that says they are "Proud members of the TAPS family" and they are truly NOT what I imagine TAPS would have envisioned representing them. How can TAPS possibly accredit or certify a group that they have no personal knowledge of, rather simply an application for membership?