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A Fatal Flaw in the Story of Eden


Wootloops

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It just seemed that you were basing all this "ignorance" on people who were raised being taught to believe in the Bible, that's all.

Ok so then how does any of it actually make sense to a person? Any person. In the end, I can't see there being any reason other than "Well I'm a Christian so I have to believe it".

If Genesis didn't happen to the first book of the Bible, no sane person would ever assume that it was right. I mean that in the least offensive way possible but it's true.

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Ok so then how does any of it actually make sense to a person? Any person. In the end, I can't see there being any reason other than "Well I'm a Christian so I have to believe it".

If Genesis didn't happen to the first book of the Bible, no sane person would ever assume that it was right. I mean that in the least offensive way possible but it's true.

I am not sure I am following you...?

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I am not sure I am following you...?

i guess when it comes to believing in some of the stories IN the bible.

im thinking thats what they were getting it. no person would come to believe in it from rational thought.

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Yes, many are ex-Christians- does this bother you ?

Well, then we can agree to disagree

Actually I see the believer-as the kid with the sweet tooth-- in the candy store--his conclusions are based on his desires--not on facts

Faith has nothing to do with facts

The way I see it is the skeptic is the grown up in the candy store carefully reading the ingredients,checking for the amount of sugars/artificial sweeteners, additives & food coloring on the label and the place of origin-- before he decides to ingest it into his body and/or pass it on to his children for consumption ;)

No it doesn't bother me because they have clearly demonstrated in many of their books and articles where they stand, they are only "secular" to the uninformed... but don't ever delude yourself into thinking that they are objective...

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but i dont Want to believe in the stream, or the water, BUT, its there anyways. its real, whether i like it or not.

I can say the same for God...

are you doubting them? that they havent tried to seek god? huh, now you sound like a jerk.

oh, and the word of god, is mans word though.

My job is not to doubt them or believe them either, it is to demonstrate that those who seek earnestly do find him... If that makes me a jerk, so be it, I've been called worse.

Also it would be more accurate if you stated that YOU believe that it is mans word not Gods... it doesn't make it true, except for you...

...but theres an all-powerful, all-knowing, invisible entity, sitting on the clouds, that created our entire universe.......right...

if your answers are in there, then you have Much faith in man. which i believe can be a good thing for the most part.

No he is not sitting on the clouds, He will come riding the clouds... Gods word is to be relied on and is true to the end. My faith is in God not in man, if I believed man I wouldn't have lasted this long as a christian...

why should we have to? you claim its real, so it Should be there. things that are Real dont need to be found, because we can Already see them. touch them. taste them. hear them. smell them.

unlike this little scenario.

seems like the burdens still on the believers here. even though they try to weasel out of it and say "...uhh, you must go find it for yourself"

But who says you can see, touch, smell, hear or taste everything that is real. Can any of these help you when it comes to a higher level of reality?

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No it doesn't bother me because they have clearly demonstrated in many of their books and articles where they stand, they are only "secular" to the uninformed... but don't ever delude yourself into thinking that they are objective...

Of course I disagree.

Secular biblical scholarship looks for the facts on all levels-nothing more nothing less.

I'm not claiming to know everything when it comes to the untruthfulness of the bible and Christianity.

However, I have yet to see anything, but the same tired old arguments, that many of us who used to be Christians used to make ourselves, been there done that, and those are the arguments that we easily and casually dismiss knowing what we do today. Blame critical thought and the ability to reason. Many people are capable but refuse this way of thinking. I guess some see it as "risky behavior" ? ;)

I can pull up most any conservative Christian college or university website and simply look at the required courses for the OT or NT.

Most colleges have a professor’s website where I can also pull up his course syllabus and easily see that most books are from conservative publishing houses such as Broadman, Moody ,Herald etc. (I forget the names of the others)

Most are geared to creating "preachers" who cannot be effective if they have any doubts- which equates to the school being very selective on what is taught.

They really aren't interested in teaching about Jesus in a critical manner as they are in "preaching Jesus"

While the Bible is full of miracles, wonders & signs which the biblical authors use to prove God's existence and the (so-called) truth of their religious world, the apologist is left simply with philosophical logic to try and defend an inactive (promises only) biblical text, while desperately attempting to rationalize the irrational.

So to sum it up. I am not a fan of "faith based" study , it just does not sound very objective to me.

Suspension of reason aka. faith -is unacceptable to my intellect-no matter how minuscule my intellect may appear. :P

Edited by momentarylapseofreason
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Of course I disagree.

Secular biblical scholarship looks for the facts on all levels-nothing more nothing less.

I'm not claiming to know everything when it comes to the untruthfulness of the bible and Christianity.

However, I have yet to see anything, but the same tired old arguments, that many of us who used to be Christians used to make ourselves, been there done that, and those are the arguments that we easily and casually dismiss knowing what we do today. Blame critical thought and the ability to reason. Many people are capable but refuse this way of thinking. I guess some see it as "risky behavior" ? ;)

I can pull up most any conservative Christian college or university website and simply look at the required courses for the OT or NT.

Most colleges have a professor’s website where I can also pull up his course syllabus and easily see that most books are from conservative publishing houses such as Broadman, Moody ,Herald etc. (I forget the names of the others)

Most are geared to creating "preachers" who cannot be effective if they have any doubts- which equates to the school being very selective on what is taught.

They really aren't interested in teaching about Jesus in a critical manner as they are in "preaching Jesus"

While the Bible is full of miracles, wonders & signs which the biblical authors use to prove God's existence and the (so-called) truth of their religious world, the apologist is left simply with philosophical logic to try and defend an inactive (promises only) biblical text, while desperately attempting to rationalize the irrational.

So to sum it up. I am not a fan of "faith based" study , it just does not sound very objective to me.

Suspension of reason aka. faith -is unacceptable to my intellect-no matter how minuscule my intellect may appear. :P

Let me remind you again, there is really no such thing as secular scholarship of the bible...

Yet when all is said and done only faith can make those words come alive and have any real meaning to us.

Whats the difference between studying the bible as a historical text and of studying the Iliad by Homer or even the Spells of Coming by the Egyptians. They are all dead works and are thus comparable to works like Tom Sawyer and War and Peace among many others. They provide an interesting read but nothing else.

You can criticize the bible to your hearts content but never forget that that is not what makes me or even any other believer accept or reject them. To us is a living text which the Holy Spirit uses to instill change in us and others who truly seek God.

Edited by Jor-el
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I can say the same for God...

haha no, no you cant. otherwise i Wouldnt be on here debating gods existance to you, because id Know you were right. because you could Prove it to me. like i could prove what i said above.

but you can prove nothing, and these two arent remotely close. you could say the same about god i guess, but no one would listen to you because it would be a waste of their time.

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haha no, no you cant. otherwise i Wouldnt be on here debating gods existance to you, because id Know you were right. because you could Prove it to me. like i could prove what i said above.

but you can prove nothing, and these two arent remotely close. you could say the same about god i guess, but no one would listen to you because it would be a waste of their time.

It's really only a waste of time when there is no faith involved since that is what pleases God... in that case arguig the question of Gods existence is really only a waste of personal time for those who don't believe...

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You can criticize the bible to your hearts content but never forget that that is not what makes me or even any other believer accept or reject them. To us is a living text which the Holy Spirit uses to instill change in us and others who truly seek God.

No problem Jo-rel

Maybe it's good that you still have your armor. My armor was rendered useless eventually.

Your'e one of the good ones

All the best to you (hug for you too)

Edited by momentarylapseofreason
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