Flip-flopping to the White House

[Lt_Ripley]

Flip-flopping to the White House

How Barack Obama and John McCain are changing positions on everything from wiretapping to taxes.

By Mike Madden

............Republicans will play up any shifts on issues, blasting Obama when he varies at all from what he's said in the past on everything from Iraq and Afghanistan to the Second Amendment to the death penalty.

In some cases -- foremost with warrantless wiretapping, where Obama went back on a pledge to filibuster the bill he wound up voting for -- the charges against Obama may be deserved. On others, like Iraq -- where Obama has said all along he'd seek guidance from the Pentagon on how best to withdraw U.S. troops within 16 months -- the shift is more in how he's talking about the issue, not what his essential policy is.

McCain, though, is a surprising choice to be a charter member of the U.S. Consistency Patrol. He's done his fair share of "reversals," as the Republicans call Obama's shifts, in this campaign. He changed his position on offshore oil drilling (from opposed to in favor), on sweeping immigration reform (from in favor to opposed), and on tax cuts (from opposed to in favor). Democrats are trying to spotlight that track record, themselves; the goal is to chip away at McCain's image as a maverick -- to remind voters that in fact, he agrees with his fellow Republicans far more than he disagrees. For someone who named his campaign bus the "Straight Talk Express," the moves add up to a potential vulnerability.

This summer's focus on flip-flops has managed to obscure meaningful discussion of policies. The campaigns and the media alike are rolling up procedural issues (Obama's decision not to take public financing for the general election) with substantive ones (McCain's decision that tax cuts he once said he "could not in good conscience" vote for weren't so bad after all) into one big, catch-all category. Aides on both sides sound eerily similar.

"They've all been for the sake of political expedience," RNC spokesman Alex Conant said about Obama's policy shifts.

"We've seen a very clear pattern now of him putting political calculations first," the Democratic National Committee's Damien LaVera said of McCain. On Tuesday night, the campaigns even issued dueling memos on the subject.

Often, the attacks come off as blatantly tactical. For instance, when the GOP blasts Obama for supporting FISA legislation the White House wanted and McCain supported (but didn't show up to vote for), it's hard to believe there's much real outrage behind the zinger.

..............but after seven long years of a Bush administration that refused to change course until it was too late, they may see something entirely different in a leader who is not locked into the first thoughts he had on a given issue. This election may prove to be the one in which the flip-flop, as political weapon, finally fizzles. Both Obama and McCain are trying to play up their commitment to changing the country's course. And it may be that as that course looks increasingly difficult, voters will pay the most attention to how the candidates are adapting to and planning to deal with the war or the economy, rather than punishing them for lacking George W. Bush's dogmatism.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/07/...flop/index.html

[Space Commander Travis]

It may be that as that course looks increasingly difficult, voters will pay the most attention to how the candidates are adapting to and planning to deal with the war or the economy, rather than punishing them for lacking George W. Bush's dogmatism

.

That last sentence sums up why I think that, rather than this being something to criticise either of them for, it's something that I'd prefer any time to GW's pigheaded stubbornness.

[Lt_Ripley]

.

That last sentence sums up why I think that, rather than this being something to criticise either of them for, it's something that I'd prefer any time to GW's pigheaded stubbornness.

I think there is a difference in one's mind changing as circumstances change than an actual flip flop on issues that don't change.

for example McCain who thought Roe v wade should not be overturned or amended ........ now thinks it should.

In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.

* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.

he was against torture before he was for it.

he was anti ethanol now he's pro ( but that may have changed again)

McCain has never been steady on his view of Iraq either

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/29/a-mc...p-flop-on-iraq/

*************************

some things I think are good to keep flexible about but some just shows your kissing butt .

Edited July 17, 2008 by Lt_Ripley

[bathory]

he was against torture before he was for it.

oh?

[stevewinn]

Can someone point me to the post where Obama has said if he was President he'd send another 10,000 troops to Afghanistan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...fghanistan.html

[Celumnaz]

<=== about McCain's flipflops

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq7IyrjghLo <=== One of Many on Obama's

really can't believe anybody would vote for either of them, just don't get it at all

[Incorrigible1]

McCain's long public service naturally lends itself to changing positions. And afterall, just how long has Obama been around?

Let's see:

"He retired from the Navy as a captain in 1981 and, moving to Arizona, entered politics. He was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1982. After serving two terms, he was elected to the U.S. Senate in 1986, winning re-election easily in 1992, 1998, and 2004."

Compared to:

"Following an unsuccessful bid for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives in 2000, he announced his campaign for the U.S. Senate in January 2003. After winning a landslide primary victory in March 2004, Obama delivered the keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in July 2004. He was elected to the Senate in November 2004 with 70% of the vote."

That info was quoted from Wikipedia. Bolding mine.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Incorrigible1

[Lt_Ripley]

McCain's long public service naturally lends itself to changing positions. And afterall, just how long has Obama been around?

Let's see:

"He retired from the Navy as a captain in 1981 and, moving to Arizona, entered politics. He was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1982. After serving two terms, he was elected to the U.S. Senate in 1986, winning re-election easily in 1992, 1998, and 2004."

Compared to:

"Following an unsuccessful bid for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives in 2000, he announced his campaign for the U.S. Senate in January 2003. After winning a landslide primary victory in March 2004, Obama delivered the keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in July 2004. He was elected to the Senate in November 2004 with 70% of the vote."

That info was quoted from Wikipedia. Bolding mine.

on abortion ?? a major campaign-finance reform measure THAT HE HELPED PRODUCE ? that had his name on it ??? not the same. especially the latter. he wanted reform until I guess someone waved some $$ under his nose = easily bought.

[Lt_Ripley]

Can someone point me to the post where Obama has said if he was President he'd send another 10,000 troops to Afghanistan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...fghanistan.html

where the war should have been kept in the first place and that is going badly now. 15/07/2008

Senator Barack Obama is due to outline his vision for his presidency in a major foreign policy speech, after he pledged to send more than 10,000 extra troops to Afghanistan if elected.

The Democratic party's presidential nominee is to explain how mistakes in Iraq have hurt efforts to strengthen US security, aides said.

He will also discuss his proposal to add two new brigades in Afghanistan to combat the Taliban, as well as call for Pakistan to step up its own efforts dealing with terrorists.

The extra forces would be moved from Iraq, from a war which Mr Obama has consistently opposed and wants to end.

while US troops had performed "heroically" in Iraq, Afghanistan was the real frontline in the battle against al-Qa'eda. ( of which bush forgot /ignored )

[Incorrigible1]

on abortion ?? a major campaign-finance reform measure THAT HE HELPED PRODUCE ? that had his name on it ??? not the same. especially the latter. he wanted reform until I guess someone waved some $$ under his nose = easily bought.

Can you produce one of your myriad links from moveon or huffington to bolster that ridiculous accusation?

[Lt_Ripley]

Can you produce one of your myriad links from moveon or huffington to bolster that ridiculous accusation?

no problem !

McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.

McCain gave up on his signature policy issue, campaign-finance reform, and won’t back the same provision he sponsored just a couple of years ago.

The bill is largely identical to a measure all four men introduced in 2003, but this time around Mr. McCain is not on board.

When the New York Sun asked for an explanation, McCain’s office refused comment. But “several people involved in discussions about the legislation” said McCain will probably abandon the public-financing system during his 2008 campaign, so he had to give up on a measure he’s championed for years to avoid hypocrisy.

To be clear, John McCain opted into public financing for the primaries to illegally secure a loan from a bank to finance his campaign... then he backed out once he secured that loan.

http://flipfloptracker.blogspot.com/2008/0...gn-finance.html

you can read more here - a law McCain helped make then disagreed with when it didn't suit his agenda.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...363/1013/NEWS03

yet he was for it before he was against it

McCain says Senate is trying to bury campaign finance reform bill

January 22, 2001

Web posted at: 10:59 p.m. EST (0359 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, is running into roadblocks from his own party after he introduced new campaign-finance reform legislation.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/s...ance/index.html

[Mr Honeybadger]

So we can agree. Both of these jokers have countless numbers of flip-flops.