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A conundrum! Deuteronomy 7


seanph

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QUESTION FOR THOSE WHO TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY:

Do you think God is going to withhold his love and his covenant from the 1001st generation?

My answer is, "NO. This is not meant to be taken literally. It's a beautiful, poetic way of saying 'forever'." The Bible is filled with poetry that isn't meant to be taken literally."

So, when the bible says God will punish those who hate him to the third and fourth generations, punishing the children for the sins of their fathers, what is this a poetic way of saying?

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i'm not really sure what you are saying or how pertains to what i posted exactly, other than love thy brother/neighbor as myself...

randomhit10

Stemmed from the first post and Forgiveness.

Love Omnaka

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The devil is in the detail, eh Jor-el? ;)

Taking the whole story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as a lesson in the consequences of 'sin' one does not have to consider any part of it entirely factual. While the event upon which this tale may have been real (the destruction of the towns) other aspects of this - such as the method of their downfall - could be an invention for the purpose of dramatisation. Similarly, dialogue could be invented to show the aspects of the deity the Israelites wished to project to the reader.

As for Nineveh, it was by all accounts a very large, prosperous - and probably reasonably well-defended - city. There are many reasons why the tale of Jonah preaching to the city causing it's repeantence would have a different ending than the tales of Sodom and Gomorrah. One such possibility is simply that Nineveh was too powerful for the Israelites to consider martial action against. A neat explanation of 'repentence' serves as a cover and also as a nice counterpoint lesson to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Another possibility is that Nineveh's government may have been religiously tolerant, whereas the governing bodies of Sodom and Gomorrah may not. 'Repentence' in this situation, may simply have been the governing authority in Nineveh allowing the worship of the Israelite god within it's boundaries - an achievement that was 'exaggerated' somewhat in the retelling in Israelite lore. Again, this propesnity to exaggerating achievements is something that happened very frequently and can certainly be understood in the context of the psychology of the religious fanatic or strong believer.

When you suggest my theory does not take considerations into account, are you suggesting that from a position of scholarship, or from a position of belief?

The simple point is that you consistently tend to discount the biblical records except when it suits you and what you have to say. So now Nineveh didn't actually repent...., tell that to Sodom and Gomorrah, what you state simply tries to discredit the word of God... and I mean his actual word, not the book.

Edited by Jor-el
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So, when the bible says God will punish those who hate him to the third and fourth generations, punishing the children for the sins of their fathers, what is this a poetic way of saying?

That unless they repent, they're goners...

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The simple point is that you consistently tend to discount the biblical records except when it suits you and what you have to say. So now Nineveh didn't actually repent...., tell that to Sodom and Gomorrah, what you state simply tries to discredit the word of God... and I mean his actual word, not the book.

Jor-el,

When looking to see what events may have inspired certain passages of the bible, it is proper historical critical methodology to NOT suppose the literality of God. I accept that you believe and cannot set aside this belief to use the critical method - so be it.

That does not make this methodology, or the reasoning it uses and the possible conclusions gleaned from it, incorrect. It only shows that the believer cannot overcome thier own bias.

I am not trying to discredit anything, because I gave no credit to anything in the first place - you did.

Edited by Leonardo
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Here is a rather interesting conundrum. Is God contradicting himself here? Are we not supposed to love those who hate us -- our enemies? Are we not instructed to turn the other cheek? Decide for yourself ...

Deut 7:10 9"Know therefore that the LORD your God, (N)He is God, (O)the faithful God, (P)who keeps His covenant and His loving kindness to a thousandth generation with those who (Q)love Him and keep His commandments;

10but ®repays those who hate Him to their faces, to destroy them; He will not delay with him who hates Him, He will repay him to his face.

Deuteronomy 7

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...amp;version=49;

Where's forgiveness ...?

MK,

Sean

There was no Forgiveness in Abraham's religion. It is helpful not to confuse this ancient religion with its modern forms of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Jehovah was just God, God-Creator. As such he was equally handling Good and Evil, rewarding and destroying when necessary. In the early Biblical books Devil plays no role at all, in later books of Old Testament he plays the role of an angel, a Son of God responsible for Evil - this was later counterbalanced by the appearance of the concept of Messiah, Christ. The evolution of Abraham's religion and God in it is very clearly studied in Nietzsche's Antichristian, where he states that Christianity castrated Jehovah into a good-only Jesus, taking away his ability to manage Evil and handing it over to Devil.

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