Why do people

[DoctorHyme]

I like metal and don't understand why some people call it just noise read some lyrics then you see that most are pretty good poems!

I don't understand why some people call hardcore trance and hardcore techno just noisse this is beyond me!? Any of you have an idea why?!

[MaggieDruydess]

I've met many people online and off who think metal and rock are just screaming and random noise. It requires as much skill to preform as any other kind of music. The metal screaming takes as much if not MORE stamina and skill than regular singing, many bands such as KoRn and SlipKnoT mix singing and screaming in songs, proving that both can be done well by them, but still people refuse to see that (as I've said) it takes talent and stamina.

Not to mention ALL music is just noise. ^^

So.....why?

Sol

Perhaps it is simply because it is so hard to understand 'what' they are saying. Then there is that whole thing of not 'what' is said but 'how' it is said. Some people wont listen to the message if they don't like the tone is done in. I can agree with the stamina and skill part, I sing everything from old rock to opera myself and understand the lung capacity and control it takes to sing the different styles of music. As I get older and my hearing continually diminishes (thanks to a genetic problem) I find it harder and harder to understand the lyrics of music and find it greatly un-nerving. Music is supposed to be about emotion and It hink sometimes people connect with the words of music so much that the music itself becomes nothing more then background noise. I find it is people like these that do not like classical music or non vocal music and they find 'metal' to be bothersome or lazy because it is hard to hear the lyrics and think 'if I can't hear the words they must be crappy.'

Thats just my thoughts along with the comments from people I have spoken with regarding music anyway

[sam12six]

I think a lot of our taste in music goes beyond just what does it sound like and how does it make me feel...

I think people look at fans of a certain thing and say, "Could I picture myself as one of those fans?" if the answer is "NO!!", then they don't like it.

Imagine somebody acting like a soccer fan at Wimbledon.

With music, it's even more extreme, because, you have built-in theme music. For people who have kids at the store with their pants around their knees calling them names, it's rap. For people who's kid got scared by someone with a green mohawk, it's punk.

Like people have said already, I like old school rock like kiss. A lot of what I've heard recently that people call metal does indeed sound like noise to me, but then I'm not really into it. If you aren't into it, Rugby just looks like a bunch of guys chasing a ball around and don't appreciate the skill and conditioning it takes to do it.

[Burning Love]

I'm more into punk fashion (old punk, not hardcore punks) than I am metalhead fashion despite being more of a metalhead than a punk. I always looked at those black and death metal bands like Burzum and Deicide (respectively) and the weird things they did and said and thought I could never be a part of that culture... Well, guess I was wrong.

[Thisisnotmyname]

I think a lot of our taste in music goes beyond just what does it sound like and how does it make me feel...

I think people look at fans of a certain thing and say, "Could I picture myself as one of those fans?" if the answer is "NO!!", then they don't like it.

Imagine somebody acting like a soccer fan at Wimbledon.

With music, it's even more extreme, because, you have built-in theme music. For people who have kids at the store with their pants around their knees calling them names, it's rap. For people who's kid got scared by someone with a green mohawk, it's punk.

Like people have said already, I like old school rock like kiss. A lot of what I've heard recently that people call metal does indeed sound like noise to me, but then I'm not really into it. If you aren't into it, Rugby just looks like a bunch of guys chasing a ball around and don't appreciate the skill and conditioning it takes to do it.

I have never felt that music forces someone into a box that dictates their "style." If it did, there would be a whole lot of people walking around wearing bizarre combinations of different styles. I am a good example. Jazz(in most of its hundreds of forms) takes up the most space in my ears and mind, followed by various types of metal, then reggae, then modern classical music, then psychedelic rock. Am I regularly seen wearing an absurdly hip black suit, along with steel-toe boots and spiked shoulder pads, while smoking a joint and growing dreadlocks, having not bathed in several months, and acting as pretentious as humanly possible? Of course not.

Some people become absorbed into the very small "cultures" that arise from given forms of music. These people, in my opinion, are just looking for something to belong to. That is all well and good - everyone needs to belong somewhere or other. But to assume that this is the reason for people not enjoying a certain genre of music - because of the "look" of the most stereotypical fans of said genre - is ridiculous.

[Cradle of Fish]

They're not as bad as those people who think Metal is the most advanced and complicated genre ever conceived.

Comments like "in a century metal will be studied like Mozart and Beethoven is today" are so annoying it hurts.

[Ecchi]

Lulwut? I have friends who think it's random noises but i just turn it up to p*** em off lol.

[Burning Love]

They're not as bad as those people who think Metal is the most advanced and complicated genre ever conceived.

Comments like "in a century metal will be studied like Mozart and Beethoven is today" are so annoying it hurts.

It is the most advanced form of popular music. In technicality, genres like thrash metal, speed metal, neoclassical metal, and death metal beat anything else out there. They won't be "studied," but I tend to take the view that metal will be looked back upon similar to how classical is today.

[Thisisnotmyname]

It is the most advanced form of popular music. In technicality, genres like thrash metal, speed metal, neoclassical metal, and death metal beat anything else out there. They won't be "studied," but I tend to take the view that metal will be looked back upon similar to how classical is today.

...except modern jazz (1960s onward), much of which has the most complex harmonic structure of any music on the planet, as well as the most advanced improvisers in the history of recorded music.

[Burning Love]

...except modern jazz (1960s onward), much of which has the most complex harmonic structure of any music on the planet, as well as the most advanced improvisers in the history of recorded music.

Have you seen neoclassical shredders? Have you heard grindcore drumming?

[Thisisnotmyname]

Have you seen neoclassical shredders? Have you heard grindcore drumming?

Have you heard Mahavishnu Orchestra? Have you heard Jerry Bergonzi play saxophone? Have you ever heard a Wayne Shorter composition? Have you ever heard the rhythm section from Miles Davis's 1963-1968 quintet? Have you heard Jack Dejohnette or Billy Cobham play drums?

Neoclassical shredders like Yngvie Malmsteen are fast, and they can definitely play diminished licks like madmen. But great jazz improvisers (and there are tons of them) are miles beyond anything shredders have ever done.

[saturnrings]

I've met many people online and off who think metal and rock are just screaming and random noise. It requires as much skill to preform as any other kind of music. The metal screaming takes as much if not MORE stamina and skill than regular singing, many bands such as KoRn and SlipKnoT mix singing and screaming in songs, proving that both can be done well by them, but still people refuse to see that (as I've said) it takes talent and stamina.

Not to mention ALL music is just noise. ^^

So.....why?

Sol

theres a market for this type of music of course, and some music pieces are allright.

not sure about the 'skill' tho, and not sure if the stamina is natural or not........

personally i have grown up with lead zeppelin and pink floyd and liked head banging for years, this type of music that meant something, and had some passion has died out

contemporary metal musicians take it one step further......

[Blaydangel]

I've met many people online and off who think metal and rock are just screaming and random noise. It requires as much skill to preform as any other kind of music. The metal screaming takes as much if not MORE stamina and skill than regular singing, many bands such as KoRn and SlipKnoT mix singing and screaming in songs, proving that both can be done well by them, but still people refuse to see that (as I've said) it takes talent and stamina.

Not to mention ALL music is just noise. ^^

So.....why?

Sol

Some people just are not use to that genre of music or just close-minded and don't seem to care or not appreciative of the hard work that's involved.

[DoctorHyme]

After this long discussion i have found the answer!!!

Because...People are shallow!

[Carcharoth]

...except modern jazz (1960s onward), much of which has the most complex harmonic structure of any music on the planet, as well as the most advanced improvisers in the history of recorded music.

I don't even like jazz, but I have to agree that the most technically skilled jazz musicians (especially jazz drummers) would probably play circles around most metal musicians. Sure, there are metal and grindcore musicians that can play ridiculously fast (old Napalm Death would be an example) but as for pure technics, I think they'd be outclassed by a lot of jazz musicians, really.

[Carcharoth]

I like metal and don't understand why some people call it just noise read some lyrics then you see that most are pretty good poems!

Sorry, but there are very few metal bands that have good lyrics. Most of the time it tends to be clichéd, cheese-ridden nonsense. Obviously, there are exceptions, but the metal genre has never been known for its lyrical qualities.

[swtp]

Personally i enjoy all kinds of music, and i can't really say i have a fav. type. I think there is some great metal out there just as some of it sucks for me! That doesn't mean it's bad or just noise, simply not for me is all! But i feel that way about all genres of music, some great, some ho hum, some yuck! It all depends on my mood and taste at that momment!

[Mr Honeybadger]

Wow. I never knew there were so many different variations of Metal music. All I remember was it going from heavy metal to speed metal. Somewhere around the mid 1980's. I don't think they even use the term " Heavy " metal anymore do they ?

[CosmicStaR]

I think some people dislike and disrespect metal because of the simple fact that it rebels against all other forms of music lyrically and sound wise.

[TooFarGone]

Have you heard Mahavishnu Orchestra? Have you heard Jerry Bergonzi play saxophone? Have you ever heard a Wayne Shorter composition? Have you ever heard the rhythm section from Miles Davis's 1963-1968 quintet? Have you heard Jack Dejohnette or Billy Cobham play drums?

Neoclassical shredders like Yngvie Malmsteen are fast, and they can definitely play diminished licks like madmen. But great jazz improvisers (and there are tons of them) are miles beyond anything shredders have ever done.

Indeed. John McLaughlin can run circles around Malmsteen anyday. But, it's all about what you like to listen to.

[Burning Love]

I don't even like jazz, but I have to agree that the most technically skilled jazz musicians (especially jazz drummers) would probably play circles around most metal musicians. Sure, there are metal and grindcore musicians that can play ridiculously fast (old Napalm Death would be an example) but as for pure technics, I think they'd be outclassed by a lot of jazz musicians, really.

What about Jazz musicians in metal? Alex from Testament? Chris Poland and Gar from Megadeth? Nick Menza from Megadeth?

Wow. I never knew there were so many different variations of Metal music. All I remember was it going from heavy metal to speed metal. Somewhere around the mid 1980's. I don't think they even use the term " Heavy " metal anymore do they ?

Metal has always been a slang term for heavy metal. Heavy metal was started with Black Sabbath who then pioneered doom metal and proto-stoner metal, then Motorhead came and created speed metal in the 70s, Venom and Metallica created thrash metal in the early 80s, Venom and Hellhammer pioneered a proto-black metal style later changed by bands like Mayhem, Celtic Frost and Possessed did a proto-death metal style that lead to bands like Death and Morbid Angel, early Napalm Death did a thrash metal and crust punk fusion that created grindcore which bands like Repulsion started doing, bands like the Melvins did a sludgy sound that would later be furthered by Eyehategod and other NOLA bands called sludge metal, Pantera and Exhorder did a groovy style of thrash metal that would later be called groove metal...

You could keep going and going... I haven't even covered the mostly-not-metal fusion genres of numetal, metalcore, crossover thrash and deathcore.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Hit the Lights

[Carcharoth]

What about Jazz musicians in metal? Alex from Testament? Chris Poland and Gar from Megadeth? Nick Menza from Megadeth?

I haven't heard Testament, so I can't comment on them. As for Megadeth, I do like the band (despite Mustaine being an obnoxious c*nt), and while I do acknowledge that Poland and Menza are great musicians, I don't think they ever really did more than play fast. Was it technically impressive? Maybe. Personally I didn't find it to be very impressive. Was their speed impressive? Yes, it was (as for a solo that actually still impresses me, put on Maidens Afraid to Shoot Strangers.. Not that it's the fastest solo ever or the most technical solo ever, but I still think it's a mighty fine solo).

[Burning Love]

Poland and Gar both did jazz guitar and drums (respectively) in thrash metal, while Nick Menza merged his technical jazz style with Megadeth's music. There's more than speed in there; especially with Menza's work.

[Thisisnotmyname]

Poland and Gar both did jazz guitar and drums (respectively) in thrash metal, while Nick Menza merged his technical jazz style with Megadeth's music. There's more than speed in there; especially with Menza's work.

I've heard Alex Skolnik's work with Testament; he is unquestionably a great player. Anyone who has ever heard him play would be a madman to say otherwise.

Truth be told, I haven't ever gotten into much Megadeth. I took some time to check out the guys you mentioned here.

Nick Menza definitely has a bit of jazz attitude in his style. He never misses a hit, and some of his fills use some relatively complex rhythms. He's got some good stuff goin on. But someone like Elvin Jones, Billy Cobham, Tony Williams, Brian Blade, Billy Higgins, etc would utterly destroy him.

I feel similarly about Gar Samuelson.

Chris Poland plays some pretty hip stuff. I checked out some of his fusion group, and I liked a lot of what I heard. He's a great player.

You showed me three players from the metal genre who either have clear jazz influence or have obviously studied jazz and fusion as well as metal. So what? 99% of metal players will never do what these guys have done. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of metal players, on any instrument, will never be able to go anywhere near the level of playing that their peers in jazz are always expected to be at. There are great technical players in metal - guys who can play very fast lines at even faster tempos, hold down some very complex or even polyrhythmic riffs, have learned some fairly advanced scales and chord ideas and figured out to use them in a metal context (one that is essentially modal or atonal to varying degrees, for the most part), etc. You've even got whole bands like Meshuggah that have clearly studied some very difficult musical concepts, and put them to use as much as they can. This is all admirable, but if you put a modern jazz chart in front of them, other than the guys who have studied jazz, their heads would explode. Put metal riffs in front of jazz musicians and they will tear them down no problem. I know both things from personal experiences.