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ShaunZero

CERN's LHC "Super Collider", is it dangerous?

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Waspie_Dwarf
Anyone know much about this?

Yes, the scientists at CERN fortunately.

What could happen?

New discoveries could be made in particle physics.

Do you think this is dangerous?

No. The universe has been messing around with accelerating particles to much higher energies than this for billions of years. Many of those particles hit the Earth without destroying its or creating mini black holes.

As this subject is more about particle physics than Space I'm going to move it from the Space News forum to the Science & Technology forum.

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Waspie_Dwarf
When I think about Cern I have a really strange instinctual feeling something big is going to happen Saturaday when its turned on.

I'm worried. Anybody else get that feeling something is about to happen to?

Something tells me things are about to change and come Saturday evening we aren't going to be here as we are now.

This topic has nothing to do with Extraterrestrial Life & The UFO Phenomenon and so I am going to move it to the Science and Technology forum, where I will merge it with another couple of threads on the same subject.

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Alan W

So, what does it do, and will we all die? Im worried. (Wow, I worry a heck of lot.)

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Waspie_Dwarf
So, what does it do, and will we all die? Im worried. (Wow, I worry a heck of lot.)

For someone so worried you don't look very hard for the answers. There was already a topic on this subject in the very section you started your new topic (it was second from top so it wasn't exactly hidden either). As such your topic can be the fourth that gets merged. You should find the answers you are looking for in this thread, although, to be fair, at least yours was started in the correct forum.

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S2F

Hmmm, this all reminds me of the Black Mesa Incident :lol:

"They're waiting for you Gordon, in the test chamber."

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ShaunZero

I guess a good question to ask would be: Were black holes ever actually "observed" or "detected" in the atmosphere, when particles slam together as they will in the LHC? Could there be unknown potential variables that can make a difference from what goes on inside of the LHC, and not in the atmosphere? For instance, what if the levels of energy produced by the particles slamming together in the atmosphere is too high for phenomena "x" to occur, but not in the LHC. I mean seriously, there could be many things we don't know about that can potentially hapen, both positive and negetive.

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S2F

Science has always had its hazards, just look at all the alchemists that accidentally blew themselves up or got mercury poisoning. Since then scientist have become more cautious and usually have a good idea of what will happen before any experiments even takes place. I'm sure that the people working on this are the ones most qualified to do so. :tu:

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Cradle of Fish
I guess a good question to ask would be: Were black holes ever actually "observed" or "detected" in the atmosphere, when particles slam together as they will in the LHC? Could there be unknown potential variables that can make a difference from what goes on inside of the LHC, and not in the atmosphere? For instance, what if the levels of energy produced by the particles slamming together in the atmosphere is too high for phenomena "x" to occur, but not in the LHC. I mean seriously, there could be many things we don't know about that can potentially hapen, both positive and negetive.

I was under the impression that the speed of the particles and temperature in the LHC was less than what goes on in our sun, or any other star for that matter. We dont see strangelets and mini-black holes appearing in our own sun.

So I say, turn it on, and we might reveal the inner secrets of the universe.

Edited by Cradle of Fish

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Emma_Acid
When I think about Cern I have a really strange instinctual feeling something big is going to happen Saturaday when its turned on.

I'm worried. Anybody else get that feeling something is about to happen to?

Something tells me things are about to change and come Saturday evening we aren't going to be here as we are now.

Why would anything happen on saturday when its not being turned on until september? Shows how much you should trust "feelings" doesn't it?

So, what does it do, and will we all die? Im worried. (Wow, I worry a heck of lot.)

You don't seem to research much and panic whenever anyone tells you to. The LHC smashes particles together at nearly the speed of light in order to find smaller, fundamental particles to give us clues as to why matter is the way it is.

This happens in nature all the time. For the last 4 billion years, particles from the sun have been hitting our atmosphere at 10 million times the energy of the LHC at full strength.

This is more accurate. :P

linked-image

I <3 PBF.

:D

So I say, turn it on, and we might reveal the inner secrets of the universe.

^this. Massively.

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atom286

Firstly we have never gone to a black hole and experimented with it so our theories are currently unproven.

Secondly neither have we smashed parts of atoms together at these energies before sp again we have no idea what lies in wait.

So finally how can scientists sit there and say the chance of it destroying the earth is only 1 in 50 million?

What have they based this probability on exactly when they know very little?

Surely everybody on the planet should be consulted before this machine is powered up Saturday (GMT)!

I would also like to point out that although they claim the chances of destroying the Earth through a blackhole or stranglet are 1 in 50 million the chances of it causing WW3 are a lot higher.

I have noticed someone here pointed out Dan Browns book on Demons and Angels but you have to think about the religious implications of proving extra dimensions. Religion may be about to make its comeback in spectacular style and it could cause war with those against it.

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chaoszerg
Firstly we have never gone to a black hole and experimented with it so our theories are currently unproven.

Secondly neither have we smashed parts of atoms together at these energies before sp again we have no idea what lies in wait.

So finally how can scientists sit there and say the chance of it destroying the earth is only 1 in 50 million?

What have they based this probability on exactly when they know very little?

Surely everybody on the planet should be consulted before this machine is powered up Saturday (GMT)!

I would also like to point out that although they claim the chances of destroying the Earth through a blackhole or stranglet are 1 in 50 million the chances of it causing WW3 are a lot higher.

I have noticed someone here pointed out Dan Browns book on Demons and Angels but you have to think about the religious implications of proving extra dimensions. Religion may be about to make its comeback in spectacular style and it could cause war with those against it.

You was doing okay until you got to the last bit. :no:

Religion has nothing to do with this.

I trust scientists and if something terrible does happen....Oh well.

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badeskov
Firstly we have never gone to a black hole and experimented with it so our theories are currently unproven.

So?!

Secondly neither have we smashed parts of atoms together at these energies before sp again we have no idea what lies in wait.

No, but if you had bothered to read Emma's post you'd see that nature has been doing this with 10 million times the energy for billions of years. Our "puny" particle accelerator is no comparison whatsoever. Whatever is created in the LHC would have been created by nature and if there was a chance of it being a hazard, we wouldn't be here to talk about it now.

So finally how can scientists sit there and say the chance of it destroying the earth is only 1 in 50 million?

What have they based this probability on exactly when they know very little?

Where exactly did you dig up that number?! I don't recall any scientist saying anything about such odds.

Surely everybody on the planet should be consulted before this machine is powered up Saturday (GMT)!

Nope. See above.

I would also like to point out that although they claim the chances of destroying the Earth through a blackhole or stranglet are 1 in 50 million the chances of it causing WW3 are a lot higher.

I have noticed someone here pointed out Dan Browns book on Demons and Angels but you have to think about the religious implications of proving extra dimensions. Religion may be about to make its comeback in spectacular style and it could cause war with those against it.

Sigh. Please keep religion out of this - it has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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STIX

What I think is going to happen:

A mini-black-hole will cause a rift in space-time in which time travelers from the future (remnants of bush and Cheney's secret bunker police) will be able to connect to our reality, jump-in using a time-traveling spaceship, and then tell us all the secrets that will save our world from certain destruction.

Of-course however, this will be covered-up to prevent world panic, and the solutions will be quietly implemented without the public ever knowing anything was wrong.

So, go back to work, back to your chess game or your favorite teams sport match, and forget that the world teeters on the brink of nuclear holocaust and Armageddon. You will thank yourself later.

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clem
Sigh. Please keep religion out of this - it has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

i would consider the reaction of world events following the gain of such incredible new knowledge to be quite valid .. who controls it? who gets to learn what?

and the RELIGIOUS aspects of what is learned .. -millions and millions of people die over religion.killing because THEY are right.. other side is wrong.

i dont see how having this new knowledge DOESNT effect the world afterwards. it's not like anyone can (atm anyway) just whip up a rig like they have at cern overnight.

sure.. everyone plays nice right now cause they are all excited - its finally gonna be activated - but what happens when there's important info to be controlled?

i personally am rooting for the wormhole thing- and with respect- you can spare your technical answers why you KNOW what will/will not happen. the wormhole thing is a lot more fun. that would shake some people up.

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Alan W
You don't seem to research much and panic whenever anyone tells you to.

Yeah, I know. :blush:

I <3 PBF.

'Tis awesome. :tu:

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badeskov
i would consider the reaction of world events following the gain of such incredible new knowledge to be quite valid .. who controls it? who gets to learn what?

Sure, and that will be published.

and the RELIGIOUS aspects of what is learned .. -millions and millions of people die over religion.killing because THEY are right.. other side is wrong.

Absolutely and utterly irrelevant. This is science, not religion. What is learned is based on scientific fact, not some arbitrary system of belief. How you want to interprete what is learned is up to you and nobody else. That is your private concern.

i dont see how having this new knowledge DOESNT effect the world afterwards. it's not like anyone can (atm anyway) just whip up a rig like they have at cern overnight.

sure.. everyone plays nice right now cause they are all excited - its finally gonna be activated - but what happens when there's important info to be controlled?

Nobody is talking about holding back information. I have no idea where you got that idea from. The information will be disseminated as such information normally is. Through journal papers in scientific publications and the real interesting information (for the general public) through press releases and popular magazines (which will most likely mis-represent what is found anyways).

i personally am rooting for the wormhole thing- and with respect- you can spare your technical answers why you KNOW what will/will not happen. the wormhole thing is a lot more fun. that would shake some people up.

OK, I will keep the technicalities away. No need to obfuscate matters with some science ;)

Cheers,

Badskov

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clem
Absolutely and utterly irrelevant. This is science, not religion. What is learned is based on scientific fact, not some arbitrary system of belief. How you want to interprete what is learned is up to you and nobody else. That is your private concern

knowledge equals power.

and im pretty sure you know that religion runs most if not all of this planet. sure what i believe is my own belief but there are plenty who kill in the name of what they believe. i would love to agree with you and everybody shares and all is perfect. but the powers that be dont always play fair.

im just saying i guess that religion will be affected and always is by scientific discovery- or at least the killing in the name of religion is more effective.

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LightningMunk

so i guess its happening tomorrow (August 9, 2008)? at least thats what i heard

ah well, and if the black hole does destroy earth, at least we all die together :)

....but i didnt see Pineapple Express yet :( *quick buys ticket for morning showings*

*edit*

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=5533867

never mind, official, Sep 10 2008 is official testing date

Edited by LightningMunk

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NeoGenesis
What I think is going to happen:

A mini-black-hole will cause a rift in space-time in which time travelers from the future (remnants of bush and Cheney's secret bunker police) will be able to connect to our reality, jump-in using a time-traveling spaceship, and then tell us all the secrets that will save our world from certain destruction.

Of-course however, this will be covered-up to prevent world panic, and the solutions will be quietly implemented without the public ever knowing anything was wrong.

Clearly watched to many science fiction movies.

CERN's LHC doesn't nearly have enough power to generate even a small black hole.The beam of protons used in the LHC can not and I repeat can not generate a the critical mass for a mini black hole to form and if for some reason if it did the tiny black hole will fade away in a millisecond because the gravitational force of the Earth will out way the force that the mini black hole will create.It will in essence be ripped apart.

Now for the situation at hand.

One solar flare (responsible for the magnificent Aurora or Northern and Southern lights at the poles of the Earth) of the sun has more energy contained than the LHC hopes to generate in its entire years of service and do you grow a third limb from the flare or is the Earth stripped of live from repeated flares the answer to all that is simply NO.The LHC is professionally designed and years of Data and knowledge has been accumulated from other particle accelerators and has been merged into the design of the LHC.These Dooms Day prophesy's that are casting this dark veil over the LHC are all a bunch of nonsense [period].

Edited by NeoGenesis

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badeskov
knowledge equals power.

and im pretty sure you know that religion runs most if not all of this planet. sure what i believe is my own belief but there are plenty who kill in the name of what they believe. i would love to agree with you and everybody shares and all is perfect. but the powers that be dont always play fair.

im just saying i guess that religion will be affected and always is by scientific discovery- or at least the killing in the name of religion is more effective.

Sure, religion will always be affected and some people will use science to their benefit through religion. However, that has no bearing on the LHC whatsoever. While the science will have impact on some religious people, religion has no impact on the science performed at LHC at all and what is discovered will be purely scientific and used for scientific purposes.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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badeskov
Clearly watched to many science fiction movies.

CERN's LHC doesn't nearly have enough power to generate even a small black hole.The beam of protons used in the LHC can not and I repeat can not generate a the critical mass for a mini black hole to form and if for some reason if it did the tiny black hole will fade away in a millisecond because the gravitational force of the Earth will out way the force that the mini black hole will create.It will in essence be ripped apart.

Now for the situation at hand.

One solar flare (responsible for the magnificent Aurora or Northern and Southern lights at the poles of the Earth) of the sun has more energy contained than the LHC hopes to generate in its entire years of service and do you grow a third limb from the flare or is the Earth stripped of live from repeated flares the answer to all that is simply NO.The LHC is professionally designed and years of Data and knowledge has been accumulated from other particle accelerators and has been merged into the design of the LHC.These Dooms Day prophesy's that are casting this dark veil over the LHC are all a bunch of nonsense [period].

Well said, I couldn't agree more!!!!! These doomsday scenarios are somewhat beyond the realm of absurdity, and it is very clear that the ones concocting them have no scientific/technical knowledge whatsoever.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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atom286
Well said, I couldn't agree more!!!!! These doomsday scenarios are somewhat beyond the realm of absurdity, and it is very clear that the ones concocting them have no scientific/technical knowledge whatsoever.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Firstly scientists have clearly stated the odds of this experiment going wrong and destroying the world are about 1 in 50 million. Therefore shouldn't we all get a vote to decide if it should be powered up?

Secondly we dont know what new particles will be discovered. What happens if we unlease a new type of deadly radiation?

I think we should wait until we have colonised the solar system then build it in deep space.

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badeskov
Firstly scientists have clearly stated the odds of this experiment going wrong and destroying the world are about 1 in 50 million. Therefore shouldn't we all get a vote to decide if it should be powered up?

Which scientists and where is that stated?! Please provide a link or a reference, as to the best of my knowledge all the scientists working on this are pretty much in agreement that nothing can happen, simply because the LHC has nowhere the energy to unleash such.

Secondly we dont know what new particles will be discovered. What happens if we unlease a new type of deadly radiation?

They have a very good idea of what will be discovered, and no deadly radiation will come from this. Again, to repeat what has been said over and over: nature does this all the time, just using 10 million times the energy that the LHC can do it with. So, in those terms the LHC is a pebble gun. What is it in that comparison that is so hard to understand?!

I think we should wait until we have colonised the solar system then build it in deep space.

:blink:

Cheers,

Badeskov

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NeoGenesis
Firstly scientists have clearly stated the odds of this experiment going wrong and destroying the world are about 1 in 50 million.

1 in 50 million can be counted as zero concerning the small amount of matter used in the tests.As for the destroying the world - there will be NO such thing.

Therefore shouldn't we all get a vote to decide if it should be powered up?

Take a second and think for yourselves what result will be achieved from that question.The votes for not to power up the LHC will go of the scale because ethnic groups and Religious people will vote for not powering up the LHC.It all comes down to that the major majority of people don't have even a small understanding of the systems of the LHC.What they will then bring forward is these obsired claims that the LHC will cause global implications,mass Deaths and Destruction its all nonsense.

Secondly we dont know what new particles will be discovered. What happens if we unlease a new type of deadly radiation?

Firstly that is the main goal of the LHC to find new particles that otherwise could not have bee created in other particle accelerators.

And secondly the LHC is build underground and it has Electromagnetic particle traps that will capture these particles from the reaction for annalises and the entire system is inside a containment vessel

I think we should wait until we have colonised the solar system then build it in deep space.

There is absolutely no reason for that.

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