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ShaunZero

CERN's LHC "Super Collider", is it dangerous?

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thefinalfrontier

There are many saftey actions taken with this collider such as explosioin chambers in case something goes wrong along it route thru the collider, I am actually exited to read more of this as the timeline gets closer,

Edited by thefinalfrontier

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1.618

Well as they have already started using it, i'm going to assume it's safe and that the earth isn't going to be sucked into a man made black hole anytime soon.

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Seriously

It really puts a damper on things though when the alarmist always have there 2 cents to throw in. They didn't even bother to invent logic for why they thought this was going to be dangerous. Just that it was going to create some crazy black hole stranglet particle that would eat humans for lunch. Bunch of backwater hillbilly pseudoscience nonsense. The fact that they even got a response from CERN is more then I would have given. They file injunctions 5000 miles away in another country as if that would do anything to stop the project.

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Alan W

I have read all this stuff and how it wont destroy us, but I a still scared s**tless. :cry: There has got to be something wrong with me. :unsure2:

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GreyWeather
Is it safe, thats the main thing, because if it isnt were all in **** street, :wacko:

Nah, it's under France territory. So it's all 'kay.

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stevewinn
Nah, it's under France territory. So it's all 'kay.

yeah, true, but since reading this post i cant get this experiment out of my head, i've done no research on the subject and so have an open'ish mind, but my gut instinct tells me something isn't right, why i don't know,

am thinking surely scientist wouldn't carry out such an experiment if it could drastically wrong etc... but if scientist carry it out and in 15 days everything is fine and a complete success what good will come out of the experiment, what are the benefits to humanity?

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badeskov
yeah, true, but since reading this post i cant get this experiment out of my head, i've done no research on the subject and so have an open'ish mind, but my gut instinct tells me something isn't right, why i don't know,

This time your gut is wrong ;)

am thinking surely scientist wouldn't carry out such an experiment if it could drastically wrong etc... but if scientist carry it out and in 15 days everything is fine and a complete success what good will come out of the experiment, what are the benefits to humanity?

Scientists know that whatever they do, it will not bring about the apocalypse and the demise of humankind. The sun does these kinds of experiments all the time, just using a lot more energy. And we are still here. The only thing the scientists don't know is whether they will actually verify the existence of the Higgs boson, as is hoped. But even if they don't, the LHC will bring about a lot of new and exciting physics :)

Cheers,

Badeskov

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OilFight
yeah, true, but since reading this post i cant get this experiment out of my head, i've done no research on the subject and so have an open'ish mind, but my gut instinct tells me something isn't right, why i don't know,

am thinking surely scientist wouldn't carry out such an experiment if it could drastically wrong etc... but if scientist carry it out and in 15 days everything is fine and a complete success what good will come out of the experiment, what are the benefits to humanity?

The benefit to humanity is that we will know at least one more thing about our universe and how it works. The knowledge we learn may not seem relevant when we first hear it, but eventually it might be used to create technology beyond our imagination. Just as the discovery of electricity helped usher an age of connectivity, the shrinking of our world, and the broadening of our horizons, so too can these new discoveries bring enlightenment.

Often, when people mention an "apocalypse" or something akin to it, others listen and feel restless... restless not because they are afraid to die but because they want to believe that their lives, and perhaps the lives of their neighbors, have some special significance. That maybe, unlike the countless generations of their ancestors, they could end their lives in a resolute "bang," a "bang" which ends the life of a majority, so that they do not die alone and it is something altogether different from death, it is the transcendence of the human race into non-existence.

Before you respond, saying "I don't want to die" or something similar, ask yourself. Ask yourself "Why?" Why do we wage wars, why do we murder, lie, steal, plunder, and do harm unto others. You may not have partaken in any of the said acts, but do not fool yourself into thinking you are any better than any other human being. Given the right circumstance, feelings of anger, rage, jealousy, and a thirst for vengeance can boil in even the purest of souls, forcing men to do heinous acts of cruelty and misdeed. It is humanity's strange and perverted need for self-destruction which harbors these sinful feelings; it is the same need which harbors your and many others' fantasies of "the end of days."

Your "gut feeling" is nothing more than your own surreptitious desire for ultimate resolution, a desire not even known to yourself...

...Well, that was fun! :lol:

*Reverts back to optimism* ~Everything's gonna be OK

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stevewinn

well, am all for the experiment if its a 100% safe. but before this topic i hadn't really heard of this machine, but after reading it and following a few links, we have people saying its safe, others saying "its the end" but is there any video on the issue, maybe a promotional video made by the science team behind experiment to explain what exactly is going to happen and dismissing fears over a potentially dangerous outcome?

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OilFight
well, am all for the experiment if its a 100% safe. but before this topic i hadn't really heard of this machine, but after reading it and following a few links, we have people saying its safe, others saying "its the end" but is there any video on the issue, maybe a promotional video made by the science team behind experiment to explain what exactly is going to happen and dismissing fears over a potentially dangerous outcome?

I doubt it, the whole "this is going to end with a black hole swallowing the earth" argument is too fallacious and unfounded to get a serious response by the scientists working on it. Like many on our board have explained (look above at badeskov's post), what we are creating in the LHC is going on in nature constantly. If it was so easy to create black holes and strangelets, our entire universe would just be a bunch of black holes... and strangelets.

What we're doing in the Large Hadron Collider is, well, colliding hadrons, which is already happening at even greater energies in our upper atmosphere. The only difference between what's happening there and what's happening here is that we can observe what's happening.

We've been tampering with matter for a while now, and when the scientists think there's real danger in what they're doing, they test it in some desolate desert... just look at the A-Bomb. There were some (non-scientists, like today) who said what they were doing was insane, and that the blast of the A-bomb would set off a chain reaction, taking out the whole state, continent, or the entire world. What made the scientists go on with the tests wasn't blind faith or arrogance, as a lot of the doomsayers would claim, it was the cold hard facts. The fact was that E=MC2, and the energy created from breaking the atoms would not be enough to set off a chain reaction of any sort. Although the energy produced from the first nuclear explosions was awesome, as predicted it did not set off a chain reaction outside of the chain reaction used within the bomb, and the effects of the explosion were contained to a radius of 1,100 ft (330 meters) (Source)

The cold hard facts about this experiment is that we KNOW what we're doing in the LHC is not even close in comparison to what is happening in the sun, or even our upper atmosphere. Particles are colliding constantly, at extremely high speeds, and yet black holes (the destructive kind) are still a rare occurrence and strangelets have never been observed. Period.

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badeskov
well, am all for the experiment if its a 100% safe. but before this topic i hadn't really heard of this machine, but after reading it and following a few links, we have people saying its safe, others saying "its the end" but is there any video on the issue, maybe a promotional video made by the science team behind experiment to explain what exactly is going to happen and dismissing fears over a potentially dangerous outcome?

No, you probably won't find a promotional video saying that it is not safe, because scientists know that it is safe. They have no reason to go out publicly and make a big fuss out of it. Honestly, it is only in fringe circles such nonsense is promoted. Obviously, we can't all have the knowledge to gauge whether it is safe or not, and you obviously don't have the knowledge withing this specific field to make a determination, hence your questions. The problem that the people promoting this don't have the knowledge either, which unfortunately is very obvious. It is scaremongering for the sake of fame.

Go to the links you refer to and look at a couple saying that it is dangerous and a couple saying that it poses no danger. What are the facts on either side?! Hint: the scaremongers have no facts. ;)

Cheers,

Badeskov

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badeskov
I doubt it, the whole "this is going to end with a black hole swallowing the earth" argument is too fallacious and unfounded to get a serious response by the scientists working on it. Like many on our board have explained (look above at badeskov's post), what we are creating in the LHC is going on in nature constantly. If it was so easy to create black holes and strangelets, our entire universe would just be a bunch of black holes... and strangelets.

What we're doing in the Large Hadron Collider is, well, colliding hadrons, which is already happening at even greater energies in our upper atmosphere. The only difference between what's happening there and what's happening here is that we can observe what's happening.

We've been tampering with matter for a while now, and when the scientists think there's real danger in what they're doing, they test it in some desolate desert... just look at the A-Bomb. There were some (non-scientists, like today) who said what they were doing was insane, and that the blast of the A-bomb would set off a chain reaction, taking out the whole state, continent, or the entire world. What made the scientists go on with the tests wasn't blind faith or arrogance, as a lot of the doomsayers would claim, it was the cold hard facts. The fact was that E=MC2, and the energy created from breaking the atoms would not be enough to set off a chain reaction of any sort. Although the energy produced from the first nuclear explosions was awesome, as predicted it did not set off a chain reaction outside of the chain reaction used within the bomb, and the effects of the explosion were contained to a radius of 1,100 ft (330 meters) (Source)

The cold hard facts about this experiment is that we KNOW what we're doing in the LHC is not even close in comparison to what is happening in the sun, or even our upper atmosphere. Particles are colliding constantly, at extremely high speeds, and yet black holes (the destructive kind) are still a rare occurrence and strangelets have never been observed. Period.

Great post :tu: Why did I even write one myself?! ;)

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Atheist God
well, am all for the experiment if its a 100% safe. but before this topic i hadn't really heard of this machine, but after reading it and following a few links, we have people saying its safe, others saying "its the end" but is there any video on the issue, maybe a promotional video made by the science team behind experiment to explain what exactly is going to happen and dismissing fears over a potentially dangerous outcome?

Nothing is ever 100%

This being said the chance of a particle accelerator killing us all is pretty small like only a fraction of a percent... It's prolly like 99.999999.... safe

Fact is they have already created tiny black holes in PA's before and they didn't destroy us so I suspect this will be no different.

Edited by Atheist God

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stevewinn
No, you probably won't find a promotional video saying that it is not safe, because scientists know that it is safe. They have no reason to go out publicly and make a big fuss out of it. Honestly, it is only in fringe circles such nonsense is promoted. Obviously, we can't all have the knowledge to gauge whether it is safe or not, and you obviously don't have the knowledge withing this specific field to make a determination, hence your questions. The problem that the people promoting this don't have the knowledge either, which unfortunately is very obvious. It is scaremongering for the sake of fame.

Go to the links you refer to and look at a couple saying that it is dangerous and a couple saying that it poses no danger. What are the facts on either side?! Hint: the scaremongers have no facts. ;)

Cheers,

Badeskov

you missed my point, and since posting i've come across a video and a question and answer session with the scientist behind the project, explaining what they expect to find and how the thing works, but cheers for trying to answer, :tu:

Nothing is ever 100%

This being said the chance of a particle accelerator killing us all is pretty small like only a fraction of a percent... It's prolly like 99.999999.... safe

Fact is they have already created tiny black holes in PA's before and they didn't destroy us so I suspect this will be no different.

Cheers Athe, repeating what i've said above, i've just watched the video and read a question and answer session, which answers more or less all my questions, its funky stuff when they start talking about dimensions, parallel universes what have ya....... you should all have a read.

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suziwong

I am excited to see what information this experiment provides - but everyone has the "god-given" right to be concerned.

Although science has come a long way - we are sadly lacking in fundamentally understanding the basic forces of our universe.

For example: what is gravity, why does it not fit with our current theories - why does some energy attracts matter and other energy doesn't - how / why matter is held together, where matter comes from, how much dark matter is in the universe, how is it formed etc

so it is catch 22 - the experiment, (the aim I believe is to create matter - a big bang on a small scale) will certainly expand our knowledge - and I have no doubt that it will also create many new questions.

BUT - because we do not fundamentally understand sub-atomic particles and what external forces control the behaviour of sub-atomic particles - there is therefore a chance - albeit remote, that dark matter could be created - which could potentially become a global disaster.

They cannot say that they KNOW it will be safe because they do not KNOW the outcome of their experiment - and if they did then there would be no point in them conducting it.

Who has the right to authorise decisions like this on behalf of the whole human race?

In a world of health & safety gone mental - I would love to see how they got round the risk assessment for this experiment.

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OilFight
I am excited to see what information this experiment provides - but everyone has the "god-given" right to be concerned.

Although science has come a long way - we are sadly lacking in fundamentally understanding the basic forces of our universe.

For example: what is gravity, why does it not fit with our current theories - why does some energy attracts matter and other energy doesn't - how / why matter is held together, where matter comes from, how much dark matter is in the universe, how is it formed etc

so it is catch 22 - the experiment, (the aim I believe is to create matter - a big bang on a small scale) will certainly expand our knowledge - and I have no doubt that it will also create many new questions.

BUT - because we do not fundamentally understand sub-atomic particles and what external forces control the behaviour of sub-atomic particles - there is therefore a chance - albeit remote, that dark matter could be created - which could potentially become a global disaster.

They cannot say that they KNOW it will be safe because they do not KNOW the outcome of their experiment - and if they did then there would be no point in them conducting it.

Who has the right to authorise decisions like this on behalf of the whole human race?

In a world of health & safety gone mental - I would love to see how they got round the risk assessment for this experiment.

I'm guessing you haven't read the whole thread, or haven't completely understood it. None of us are saying that anyone knows the outcome of the experiment, we just know it's not going to create a "global disaster" because what they're doing with the LHC is constantly happening in nature. There's no difference between colliding matter on earth in a controlled setting and the collision of matter in earth's upper atmosphere, the surface of the moon, or within the sun.

Really, the only reason people are getting all flustered about this is because they hear the words "black hole" and freak out. The black holes, dark matter, stranglets, etc which could theoretically be created with the LHC pose absolutely NO threat to the Earth as a whole... maybe a localized disaster could occur, like a small explosion, but the LHC couldn't make an "Earth gobbler" even if it tried. Particles have been bombarding the Earth for eons, if making (EDIT: massively destructive) black holes was as easy as smashing two protons together, we wouldn't even be here to have this discussion.

Edited by OilFight

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Sodwasp

Its just stupid, i mean what is the point of trying this anyway? Ive heard that some of the worlds top scientists have walked away from the project saying that "They are tampering with the unknown.... And this could have serious repercussions on the Earth as we know it."

So I believe that scientists are just bored and want to create something bigger and far more dangerous than the Nuclear Bomb. The last time something similar to this happened, we came up with the atom bomb (20 years later). What is going to happen in 20 years from now then? I hope for all our sakes it just wipes out everyone involved in this operation and stops this stupid experiment.

Anyway I believe a good luck and God speed is needed for all the sane people out there!

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Atheist God
Its just stupid, i mean what is the point of trying this anyway? Ive heard that some of the worlds top scientists have walked away from the project saying that "They are tampering with the unknown.... And this could have serious repercussions on the Earth as we know it."

So I believe that scientists are just bored and want to create something bigger and far more dangerous than the Nuclear Bomb. The last time something similar to this happened, we came up with the atom bomb (20 years later). What is going to happen in 20 years from now then? I hope for all our sakes it just wipes out everyone involved in this operation and stops this stupid experiment.

Anyway I believe a good luck and God speed is needed for all the sane people out there!

I wish people wouldn't speak from ignorance and just plain stupidity.

I vote this the most least informed post EVER!.

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ROGER

I,v heard worse at the local pub after the speaker has more than half his pre frontal lobe shut down. Last night a fellow complained ,that with the price of gas what it is, the shuttles should stop being launched. They use Way to much Gasoline! :P

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suziwong
I wish people wouldn't speak from ignorance and just plain stupidity.

I vote this the most least informed post EVER!.

I would agree if not for the following

natural strangelets are thought to have been picked up by studies of seismic events & chatoc weather

We do not know the effects of strangelets upon the earths core & how this could effect everything on earth

We do not lnow the reasons for many cataclysmic events throughout history which have destroyed and wiped out life on earth

The bottom line is we dont know enough

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badeskov
you missed my point, and since posting i've come across a video and a question and answer session with the scientist behind the project, explaining what they expect to find and how the thing works, but cheers for trying to answer, :tu:

I apologize if I didn't read you post correctly - I will do better next time ;)

Cheers,

Badeskov

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badeskov
I would agree if not for the following

natural strangelets are thought to have been picked up by studies of seismic events & chatoc weather

They have not. I believe they were at some point, but I think that has been retracted.

We do not know the effects of strangelets upon the earths core & how this could effect everything on earth

We do not lnow the reasons for many cataclysmic events throughout history which have destroyed and wiped out life on earth

We do not know about strangelets. It is hypothesized to exist, indeed. However, if it indeed exists and has the dangerous consequences that people hypothesize, we'd be all gone if the LHC was capable of creating them. They would be created in the upper atmosphere in much greater numbers, thus bombarding the Earth. And we are still here, I guess...

The bottom line is we dont know enough

True, we never know enough. But on the particular dangers you refer to, we do - they are non-existent.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited by badeskov

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badeskov
I,v heard worse at the local pub after the speaker has more than half his pre frontal lobe shut down. Last night a fellow complained ,that with the price of gas what it is, the shuttles should stop being launched. They use Way to much Gasoline! :P

:w00t:

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Emma_Acid
I wish people wouldn't speak from ignorance and just plain stupidity.

I vote this the most least informed post EVER!.

Gets my vote.

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Emma_Acid
I,v heard worse at the local pub after the speaker has more than half his pre frontal lobe shut down. Last night a fellow complained ,that with the price of gas what it is, the shuttles should stop being launched. They use Way to much Gasoline! :P

Good lord.

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