Arctic meltdown is speeding up

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

Please read a couple of the posts of the person I was responding to. He's an America hater.

I don't think just because someone criticizes the way some Americans think and how America is being run it makes them an America hater. We should ALL take a skeptical look at our government. To sit back and become complacent would allow alot of negative things to slip by us. You have no idea how many people in our country sit back and agree with whatever a leader says without questioning it and, alot of times, not even knowing what they're agreeing WITH. thats DANGEROUS. We HAVE to criticize our government and we HAVE to learn as much as we can about situations from an unbiased point of view. If you go into a situation with a "Oh, I believe our government, no matter what other people say," Then you go in biased.

You've taken someone that has made a conclusion about america from what they have witnessed, and you call them anti-american. I see nothing anti-american about anything Character said. I criticize America in the same way, but I'm not anti-america. I love my country, but I'm not going to sit back and think that, just because I love my country, everything it does is right. I also don't assume we are the "leaders of the world".

And, we AREN'T the only ones that help other countries out. Alot of these other countries house alot of refugees, and send alot of support to countries in need. Some of them MORE so than the U.S. because their help doesn't come after they declare war on the place. Character was correct in criticizing our handling of the hurricane. I LIVE down here, I SAW what happened first hand, and I, personally, suffered from the lack of my own governments help, as did many people I know. A country that has such a difficult time helping itself should not brag about how much they help others.

I love my country, which is why I believe, with the correct steps taken, that we CAN switch our energy source. I believe we CAN set the things right that were wrong. I don't just sit back and complain about protecting my way of life and having hybrid cars sending me death threats if I don't buy one. I believe our country is strong enough to accept these changes and use them for the better. Certainly, mistakes have been made by the US in recent years, but its nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of work.

And why do you have this thing for Al Gore? Do you think that, just because someone believes in being Nature Friendly, they hang on Al Gore's every word and worship him like a god? Sorry, but that's not true in any sense of the word. I could personally care less about what happens to Al Gore, he deserves my criticism just like everyone else in the government does. Just because I agree with SOME things he says does not mean I don't look at him the same way as I look at every other politician.

And there are other countries that contribute to science. .Japan, France, Germany, England. . .We work together, not against each other. They contribute things that we don't, and vice versa. And I've known plenty of people that have gone to schools in other countries instead of going to American schools. America does alot, sure. . .but that's no reason to make less of the vast contributions of others.

You would be daft if you assumed, because we are America, our word is law and we do nothing but good. Its easy for us to get into that mindset because we live here, but we can't fall into complacency just because we do. BECAUSE we live here, we have to make sure we DON'T. . .For our own good and for our country's good. Don't take someone elses criticisms as an insult, take it as an outside perspective that deserves considering. They might see the things that you don't.

[character]

Perhaps. But that doesn't make it any less true.

The personal computer was invented in America. Not in Norway or Sweden or France or German or Italy or Brazil etc.

America is still a world leader in medical research and treatment.

Schools? Why do you suppose sooooooo many Europeans (and others) send their kids to America's MIT, Harvard etc.

And so on....

You can try to twist my words but the proof is in history: There has never been a group of people who have come together to live and work as a nation and society for the benefit of themselves and the world as the United States. No other nation in human history has directly and indirectly contributed so much to the advancement of humanity in terms of human rights, security and freedom, technology, daily living, and hope for a better tomorrow. The work isn't done. It never will be. I doubt we will find perfection and Eutopia in this life. But no other nation in human existance has done more to advance the state of the art and these goals than America has.

If you're too blind to see all the good that America and the American people have done for the world and continue to provide then I can't help you. In fact, it is you who are arrogant then.

Like I said before, go ahead and pull the plug on America (if you can). I'd love to come back in 100 years and see the kind of world w/o an America.

Oh yea, your health care system is so good, far supperior to anyone elses lol. I dont realy get the school thing, i never mentioned anything of the sorts, but if all those europians go to your schools, i guess they're the ones doing the medical research and whatnot.

The rant about america beeing best is just an opinion, i dont see any facts and the human rights shine very well with your relatively recent history with black people. Besides, its all based on economy and certainly not "a better tomorrow" for the world, and there always are alot of groups of people coming together for their own benefit . And seriously, the world did fine without america for thousands of years

And to be clear, i'm not saying america, or all americans are bad/stupid or anything and i'm not an american hater, but USA does have alot of flawes, especialy concerning the goverment. Also alot of americans are SO teribly patriotic, that they cannot imagine their country being not perfect and so cannot take even the slightest criticism, also trusting their leaders blindly, unable to imagine that those leaders are only human and can make mistakes.

And i'm happy that there seems to be more and more sensible americans like Sweetsalem, that look at things objectively and doesnt think that criticism is an atack on USA or something

Edited August 19, 2008 by character

[MasterPo]

I also don't assume we are the "leaders of the world".

Then why is America and the American President (whom ever that is) continuously referred to as The Leader Of The Free World?

Please tell me, if not America then who else in the world is the leader, the country out in front always taking the first step down the difficult paths? If not America, what other country has been the leader in technology and innovation for the last 100+ years? What other country has done more to be the leader for freedom and human rights?

I acknowledge other countries have contributed as well to these achievements. Sometimes significantly. But even significant contribution is still not taking the leadership role.

And, we AREN'T the only ones that help other countries out. Alot of these other countries house alot of refugees, and send alot of support to countries in need.

Pretend I'm from Missouri - show me!

Show me how often, how much and how quickly France, Spain, Sweden, Norway, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Germany etc have sent aid and help to grief stricken places.

Character was correct in criticizing our handling of the hurricane. I LIVE down here, I SAW what happened first hand, and I, personally, suffered from the lack of my own governments help, as did many people I know. A country that has such a difficult time helping itself should not brag about how much they help others.

And what did you do to prepare yourself and your family for it? This wasn't the first hurricane to hit your area. You live in location well known for possible big storms and flooding. If you had been paying any sort of attention to the news you knew it was coming. So did you stockpile food and water? Did you load the car and get your family out of there? Or did you sit back, let it happen, and then say "Government help me!"?

You would be daft if you assumed, because we are America, our word is law and we do nothing but good.

And by the same point you conviniently overlook any possiblilty that those other countries whom you admire soooo much may also be wrong, have made mistakes, and so often depend on the very same America they love to bash to bail them out of trouble.

Which, circling back to the original point of this article, yet again asserts my point that why is all the worlds' claim for the fault of supposed global warming aimed at America if this truly is a world crisis need world wide support?

I love my country, which is why I believe, with the correct steps taken, that we CAN switch our energy source.

I agree. Someday. And today isn't that day, neither is tomorrow or next week.

But that's not what is being said by the leaders of the global warming cult and greenies movement. They are demanding we make immediate changes right this very minute. And these "changes" always start with higher taxes, less choices, less freedom, and more government control.

Thomas Jefferson wrote "People who give up Freedom for Security rarely end up with either one." He also wrote "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. " As I see it, the global warmers and greenies with their current proposals (demands) will bring out tyranny in the name of saving the world.

To put it another, and to quote from pop culture (as history is so poorly taught these days), as Senator Amidala said in Attack of the Clones, "So this is how liberty dies: Not with a cry but with the roar of applause."

Make no mistake: The proposals of Al Gore (as he is the head/leader/spokesman for the global warming cause) and pals will completely re-write the freedoms and liberties you and I enjoy now and hope out children will enjoy long after we are gone.

Edited August 19, 2008 by MasterPo

[MasterPo]

The rant about america beeing best is just an opinion, i dont see any facts and the human rights shine very well with your relatively recent history with black people.

Is that the best you can do? Something that is 50 to 100 years in the past?! ROTFLMAO!!!!

And seriously, the world did fine without america for thousands of years

Kingdoms, empires, warlords, self-proclaimed devine rules, technology barely out of the iron age. Yea, let's go back to that. Much better off.

BTW, have you ever read the French Constitution? The first part reads nearly word for word with the American Constitution preamble. Immitation is the most sincerest form of flattery.

And i'm happy that there seems to be more and more sensible americans like Sweetsalem, that look at things objectively and doesnt think that criticism is an atack on USA or something

If for you and Sweetsalem et al. America is such a horrible place, please show me another country you'd prefer to live in. Someplace you'll have just as much or more freedom of movement, choices, opportunities, security, etc.

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

Then why is America and the American President (whom ever that is) continuously referred to as The Leader Of The Free World?

Please tell me, if not America then who else in the world is the leader, the country out in front always taking the first step down the difficult paths? If not America, what other country has been the leader in technology and innovation for the last 100+ years? What other country has done more to be the leader for freedom and human rights?

I acknowledge other countries have contributed as well to these achievements. Sometimes significantly. But even significant contribution is still not taking the leadership role.

Pretend I'm from Missouri - show me!

Show me how often, how much and how quickly France, Spain, Sweden, Norway, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Germany etc have sent aid and help to grief stricken places.

And what did you do to prepare yourself and your family for it? This wasn't the first hurricane to hit your area. You live in location well known for possible big storms and flooding. If you had been paying any sort of attention to the news you knew it was coming. So did you stockpile food and water? Did you load the car and get your family out of there? Or did you sit back, let it happen, and then say "Government help me!"?

And by the same point you conviniently overlook any possiblilty that those other countries whom you admire soooo much may also be wrong, have made mistakes, and so often depend on the very same America they love to bash to bail them out of trouble.

Which, circling back to the original point of this article, yet again asserts my point that why is all the worlds' claim for the fault of supposed global warming aimed at America if this truly is a world crisis need world wide support?

I agree. Someday. And today isn't that day, neither is tomorrow or next week.

But that's not what is being said by the leaders of the global warming cult and greenies movement. They are demanding we make immediate changes right this very minute. And these "changes" always start with higher taxes, less choices, less freedom, and more government control.

Thomas Jefferson wrote "People who give up Freedom for Security rarely end up with either one." He also wrote "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. " As I see it, the global warmers and greenies with their current proposals (demands) will bring out tyranny in the name of saving the world.

To put it another, and to quote from pop culture (as history is so poorly taught these days), as Senator Amidala said in Attack of the Clones, "So this is how liberty dies: Not with a cry but with the roar of applause."

Make no mistake: The proposals of Al Gore (as he is the head/leader/spokesman for the global warming cause) and pals will completely re-write the freedoms and liberties you and I enjoy now and hope out children will enjoy long after we are gone.

Actually, NO, I didn't sit and expect the government to take care of me, and thanks for showing me your pretention. I DID get out, but it doesn't mean my house got out unscathed, and it also doesn't mean I got the help I needed when I got back. And, FYI, alot of the damage in New Orleans was to the "nice" side of town, and no, even they didn't get the help they needed. I went there after the hurricane and TALKED to the people, so spare yourself from showing your ignorance on incidents you weren't present to witness. Why don't you go to New Orleans and tell them your take, and let them tell you what happened for themselves.

Plenty of countries join together to help those in need. Thinking that America is the only one that does it just shows how lacking you are in the knowledge of our world. Romania is sending aid to Georgia as we speak as is France as well as other countries. The EU also sends aid to those that need it. EU means the European Union, in case you don't know. Its made up 27 different countries and it gives more aid to third world countries than anyone else, and they also aid with natural disasters. If you ever bothered to learn about our world, then you'd already know this and I wouldn't have to "educate" you.

And never did I once say other countries didn't have their problems. Of course they do, and to say otherwise would mean living in a fantasy world. I wasn't saying other countries didn't need help, but you can't assume America doesn't need it as well. And I also didn't say I didn't like living in America. I made it a point to say that I love my country, but it does not mean that I will blindly defend everything it does.

As your knowledge of the workings of international politics seems a bit infantile, I feel that it is futile to argue with you until you learn a bit more.

And, since its apparent you speak about other countries when you know nothing about them, I don't think its a far cry to assume you don't really look into our government at home. I have the feeling you're the type of person that listens to whatever you are told and don't do any decent research for yourself. You seem to lack the willingness to question your opinions, which is necessary in order to learn. Once you stop learning you become nothing more than a tool to be used for furthering others agenda.

We've already been through the whole process of changing our power sources. NO ONE is saying lets do it ALL NOW, they are saying, LET'S START NOW. There's a big difference. In the "tightest" plan, the completion of the switch takes place in ten years, while other plans give more time. . .20-30 years. This is hardly the do it now or nothing scheme you rant about. And you fail to see how, by paying less in other areas, the tax raises in this area hardly break your wallet.

And you also don't seem to understand the new taxes that are going to be put in place, just as you probably didn't understand the "tax cuts" that have taken place in recent years. . . Tax relief is not the best strategy for economic improvement. If there aren't enough taxes, then the government doesn't have enough to cover its spending, which leads to a budget deficit. And, despite your complaining of how high taxes are now, it represents under 17% of the GDP, which means it has been decreasing and is at a low. State and local taxes are anywhere between 25% and 30% and have gone slightly up. A simple explanation

Do you actually know what a budget deficit does? Like, what it actually does, and not what you are told that it does? If our country is in debt, our government has to get the money to pay for its spending SOMEWHERE. It doesn't just fall out of the sky. One day, we're going to have to pay back all these other countries we are borrowing money from. They won't just keep lending it to us.. .that trend is not sustainable. Inflation goes up, which means you are paying more for less (something you've made it clear that you don't like). So, in all actuality, in order to "maintain" our way of life we NEED more taxes to cover what we spend and to pay back foreign countries so that we can start paying LESS for other things. Its not as black and white as you see it. When the taxes go up, we will start spending less for other things.

Our inflation rate has been rising at a dramatic pace. . and, surprise, energy costs are one of the main drivers behind this. Our average weekly wages, taking inflation into consideration, fell by .9% in June, which is the lowest monthly drop in 24 years. website

You fail to see the big picture of things. . .you equate higher taxes with less money for you. . but theres a bit more of a balancing act going on behind the scenes. If our current tax breaks were doing any good for the U.S. we wouldn't be facing these problems. The government, as a result of the breaks, is spending alot more than they're making. And, taxes seem such a burden now because of the inflation. If we could get inflation under control, then we could live better. . .and inflation will only get better when our government has enough money to pay for its spending.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Sweetsalem82103

[MasterPo]

Actually, NO, I didn't sit and expect the government to take care of me, and thanks for showing me your pretention. I DID get out, but it doesn't mean my house got out unscathed,

You live in a zone well known for huricanes and flooding. What did you expect? As a human being I have sympathy for you and the others. But I just can't get all that worked up over it. It's not like this is such a rare event in your area. Gulf states are constantly under threat of huricanes and flooding during the season. If you live there and that close to the shore it's going to happen sooner or later. That's a risk you're presuming whether you realize it or not.

and it also doesn't mean I got the help I needed when I got back. And, FYI, alot of the damage in New Orleans was to the "nice" side of town, and no, even they didn't get the help they needed. I went there after the hurricane and TALKED to the people, so spare yourself from showing your ignorance on incidents you weren't present to witness. Why don't you go to New Orleans and tell them your take, and let them tell you what happened for themselves.

Then I suggest you educate yourself as to the chain of command and authority in your communitty, and focus the blame where it counts:

First your mayor dropped the ball. It's the mayor's office that is responsible for having city disaster plans in please, financed, tested, and ready to go.

Second, it's the govenor's job to have state disaster plans ready. Then and only then is the Federal government able to come in at the request of the state's govenor. Not a minute before. That's the Constitution.

I don't argue the situation should have been handled better. But the fault is far closer to home than you and others wish to accept.

Plenty of countries join together to help those in need. Thinking that America is the only one that does it just shows how lacking you are in the knowledge of our world.

Please tell me about just 1 disaster someplace with the Eu sent help immediately before the U.S. did.

Please tell me about just 1 case where the U.S. sat out a disaster and the EU did it all, quickly and efficiently.

Anytime there's a disaster somewhere in the world the first words out of everyone's mouth is: "Where is the American aid?", not "Where is the French/Romanian/German/Italian/Greek/etc aid?"

ps- You still haven't answered my question from days ago about what you are doing right now to help global warming. Still waiting.

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

Geez, read ALL of my post before you reply.

And, why should I tell you AGAIN what I do to stay nature friendly?

I HAVE told you what I do on another thread, I believe. But I'll list them again in case I'm mistaken and I didn't make the post. . .

-I use a heat recovery unit, which reduces the energy used to heat water.

-I don't use my ac/heat system in the spring or fall, and only in the summer and winter when I feel I can't do with out.

-Every appliance in my house is energy efficient, as are all the light bulbs.

-I ride a bike or walk places that are nearby

-Anything that can be recycled in my house gets recycled

-Every purchase I make is made with extreme consideration on whether its reusable or doesn't produce much waste. And I also make as many purchases of eco-friendly things as I can

You're talking to a Pagan, for goodness sake. . .I'd take care of the earth if there WERE NO global warming. I've already made that very clear in previous posts on other threads as well. I've said numerous times that I don't care whether its "real" or not, and that it shouldn't take something like that for people to want to take care of our HOME.

And, I love how you ask these questions smugly, like there's no way I'll be able to answer them. .but if you even took a minute out of your life to go to google, you'd know I'd be able to answer them easily. Recent aid of Georgia, again, comes to mind. Turkey was actually the first to send aid. Japan was the first China ALLOWED to send a rescue team after the recent earthquake, which should be enough to disprove your "Everyone wants America" theory. And China is actually one of the countries that give the quickest responses to disaster aid. Your opinion on "where's america" is just that, an opinion. You can't speak for the rest of the world because you AREN'T the rest of the world and you, as I have pointed out before, have little knowledge of foreign affairs. Because, if you did have any knowledge, you would have known that MANY countries all over the world send aid to disaster victims, not just America. Even countries that seem like they don't have much to give from an uneducated standpoint, send aid.

Again, I shouldn't have to tell you these things. If you weren't so sure that your opinion was fact, you could easily discover the answers yourself by doing a quick google search. Nothing is sadder than a person, who is perfectly capable of intelligence, taking the lazy way out and remaining ignorant.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Sweetsalem82103