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Palin's daughter pregnant

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Sherapy
Go to the republican parties homepage and look at their platform. There is nothing in there about women staying home.

Here's a PDF: http://www.gopplatform2008.com/2008Platform.pdf

I'm sure you can find one for the conservative platform as well.

hands down there is no more important job one can do.. one is shaping the futiure when you decide to be a parent, its a noble and meritorious commitment and endeavor.....

i don't take mothering lightly and i do not feel it is unreasonable to ask for a candiate that honors her commitment as a parent . ..... ..esepcailly when you are basing your campaign on family values......

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Stubbly_Dooright

I find this link very interesting.

{{http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:r3zx5u0W5mAJ:conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2007/11/amber-rudd-cwo-.html+conservative+platform+on+women&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us}}

And I came by this by Googling 'conservative platform for women'.

So, I have always felt, that was conservative are pushing, the traditional family, meaning the women stay at home. Granted, I'm not by any means going with just this link, but in the past, I have find thoughts like these.

So, if a conservative never objected of a women outside the home, were they always like this?

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Stubbly_Dooright
I'm quite conservative and not a Christian. You paint with very broad strokes. So are all liberals devil worshippers. No, of course not.

And being a liberal myself, of course, your statement makes sense.

And maybe I do paint broad strokes, but sometimes, when someone is going to come across as one thing, I would think that is what they are. When they are something, that what they are is contradictory to, then I really wonder their role in politics is.

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Mr  Honeybadger

I think it might be somewhat difficult to label anyone with the generic term " Conservative ", without being more precise. Many people, ( including myself ) are fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal.

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Sherapy

Watchful, I home school and a large portion of Home school educators are christian and stay home wth their kids across the board and are more likely to palce this as a prioroty in my opinion...... In all honesty i admire this aspect of chrsitainity ..I donot agree with the majority of thier beleifs but none the less they are 110 percent commited to their kids.....

i also want to mention that if more could afford to stay home they would .. many people have to have 2 incomes to live nowadays..I do notice people e with kids try to find ways or jobs that afford them the possibility of staying home....

at one time our culture felt it was not important to have a parent home but we now know that it matters very much.....and seek ways to create this sort of frame to raise our kids......

Edited by Tangerine Sheri

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Stubbly_Dooright
I think it might be somewhat difficult to label anyone with the generic term " Conservative ", without being more precise. Many people, ( including myself ) are fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal.

That's a good point. And I wish all parties would deal with things that matter to the country as a whole, like financial, legal, and international policies. Anything dealing with the family should be left out. I would like no policies on how a family should be period. I would think all parties would be able to do that. That's me.

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Stubbly_Dooright
Watchful, I home school and a large portion of Home school educators are christian and stay home wth their kids across the board and are more likely to palce this as a prioroty in my opinion...... In all honesty i admire this aspect of chrsitainity ..I donot agree with the majority of thier beleifs but none the less they are 110 percent commited to their kids.....

i also want to mention that if more could afford to stay home they would .. many people have to have 2 incomes to live nowadays..I do notice people e with kids try to find ways or jobs that afford them the possibility of staying home....

at one time our culture felt it was not important to have a parent home but we now know that it matters very much.....and seek ways to create this sort of frame to raise our kids......

I respect your feelings, but I feel that religion and family should not be in our policies. It is, in my feeling, a personal topic and left out. I am also not saying they are not raising their children properly. I'm just saying that policies on how to raise your children, should not be in politics. And it should be a choice for anyone to stay at home. And it should be a choice, for someone not to.

I was just asking, if this was really a conservative agenda in the past or not. I was hoping to get more info on it. I am having a hard time getting it from the net. It's like, it doesn't want to talk about it. That coud be me. *Shrugs*, but I am not finding either way on it.

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IamsSon

So, are we saying the whole Feminist Movement was wrong that a woman can't be a good mother and also have a successful career outside the home?

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Stubbly_Dooright
So, are we saying the whole Feminist Movement was wrong that a woman can't be a good mother and also have a successful career outside the home?

Who's saying that?

I know, that the feminist movement is right, and that is in my feeling in that. And I would think this would a individual's rights issue.

What I think is wrong, is the movement to policy the family. My reasoning on that, is that the family is a personal and private thing and crossing the line into our personal rights. Again, that is me.

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rideron

This is really a non-issue, just like the ridiclous rumors concerning Obama's heritage and religion are non-issues.

Also, 90% of Democrats know its really a non-issue; just like 90% of Republicans know the Obama crap is a non-issue.

What is much more interesting is whats behind the viceral hated we're seeing toward Palin?

I wouln't vote for Obama, or Biden, but jeez, they seem decent and I don't hate them, I just disagree with their positions.

Best expalination I've heard is that Palin represents some kinda threat to the underpinnings of Liberal Democratic feminism, and if America goes for her; it's potentially very baddd news for them.

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Sherapy

Son, I am not saying that either....

some of the best parents I know have careers .....

Pallins whole posit is built of the crux of family values....

that is what I am questioning...

this is a lady who publically stated that she is a bible beleiving christian a hockey mom, etc etc........

the conservative frame wants to dictate how others should live dictate the values they shoudl uphold i find it ironic pallin herself does not reflect this same posit.......

unless this is the new conservative party.

Edited by Tangerine Sheri

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Neognosis
this is a lady who publically stated that she is a bible beleiving christian a hockey mom, etc etc........

Having a job is not in conflict with the above stated values.

But all of this is irrelevant. She's a politician and therefore a liar. She might have all night cocaine fueled orgies up there in alaska for all we know. It shouldn't matter. Vote according to a politician's record and platform, not whether you think she should have a job and be mother, or if you think she's got "family values" or whatever. Ignore all that and vote record and platform and maybe we can stand a chance of not being hoodwinked so often.

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Nxt2Hvn

Bristol is practically an adult - and I doubt any parent can control a 17 year old girl completely (unless she is put under lock and key with a chasity belt to go along with it)

I was sexually active at 17, and raised in a very conservative Christian home and it didn't stop me, I am just lucky that I didn't end up pregnant before I got married - not that I personally think that is a bad thing. In my opinion, it's life.

Even though I don't care for Hillary Clinton at all --- I would not hold it against her if Chelsea was a teen and pregnant and Hiliary was running for Pres. or VP.

I think it's pathetic that people try to judge this lady and her family ---- everyone should look in the mirror before they shoot off at their mouth.

Just my opinion.. of course!

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IamsSon
Who's saying that?
It seemed like some of the posts were alluding to that. From what I understand, Gov. Palin and her husband have worked out a process they feel is good for their family. Before anyone throws the "well, how good could it be if her daughter is pregnant" card out I would like to point out that even in families where mom stays home with the kids you end up with pregnant teenagers, drug-taking teenagers, and suicides; some studies indicate that the incidence is much lower than in two-working parent or single parent households, but it still happens, just like you still get good, well-adjusted kids from those two-working parent and single parent households.

I know, that the feminist movement is right, and that is in my feeling in that. And I would think this would a individual's rights issue.

What I think is wrong, is the movement to policy the family. My reasoning on that, is that the family is a personal and private thing and crossing the line into our personal rights. Again, that is me.

I agree. I think the only way this would be an issue is if Gov. Palin and her husband had no plan for the care of their kids, if it was obvious the kids were being mistreated or neglected, otherwise it's just a personal attack on her.

Son, I am not saying that either....

some of the best parents I know have careers .....

Pallins whole posit is built of the crux of family values....

Really? That is her whole thing? You're way off. Also, family values does not necessarily mean mom stays home with Wally and the Beav and bakes whole meals from scratch while wearing high heels and pearls, and welcomes Ward home with a nice drink, his paper, takes his shoes off and puts his slippers on his tired feet. If you think that is what family values mean to conservatives, you want to do some reading on conservative values.

that is what I am questioning...

this is a lady who publically stated that she is a bible beleiving christian a hockey mom, etc etc........

the conservative frame wants to dictate how others should live dictate the values they shoudl uphold i find it ironic pallin herself does not reflect this same posit.......

unless this is the new conservative party.

Seems that even by what you have just stated it is you who wants to dictate to others how they should live and what values to uphold. From what I've read, it seems she holds very definit conservative values and she and her husband have found ways to make the choices they have made for their lives support those values.

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Stubbly_Dooright
the conservative frame wants to dictate how others should live dictate the values they shoudl uphold i find it ironic pallin herself does not reflect this same posit.......

unless this is the new conservative party.

That's what I'm wondering! *Shrugs*

Bristol is practically an adult - and I doubt any parent can control a 17 year old girl completely (unless she is put under lock and key with a chasity belt to go along with it)

I was sexually active at 17, and raised in a very conservative Christian home and it didn't stop me, I am just lucky that I didn't end up pregnant before I got married - not that I personally think that is a bad thing. In my opinion, it's life.

Even though I don't care for Hillary Clinton at all --- I would not hold it against her if Chelsea was a teen and pregnant and Hiliary was running for Pres. or VP.

I think it's pathetic that people try to judge this lady and her family ---- everyone should look in the mirror before they shoot off at their mouth.

Just my opinion.. of course!

You are right, no one should judge anyone. It's just someone who politically judges others, should follow their own lead. The thing is, if Chelsea Clinton did get pregnant, heck, get pregnant still as a minor, it's different. There would be no double standard, considering I haven't seen the Clinton adminastration try to tell society how to live their lives. Hell, Clinton's lewinsky situation should not have been brought to the media fore front! I felt that was his business.

It seemed like some of the posts were alluding to that. From what I understand, Gov. Palin and her husband have worked out a process they feel is good for their family. Before anyone throws the "well, how good could it be if her daughter is pregnant" card out I would like to point out that even in families where mom stays home with the kids you end up with pregnant teenagers, drug-taking teenagers, and suicides; some studies indicate that the incidence is much lower than in two-working parent or single parent households, but it still happens, just like you still get good, well-adjusted kids from those two-working parent and single parent households.
Exactly. And yes, I can see where you would think, from this thread why there is some who would think women can't do it. Man, I hate it, that we are in the infancy of a very history making election, so that people can still make judgement calls on those based on their gender and skin.

I agree. I think the only way this would be an issue is if Gov. Palin and her husband had no plan for the care of their kids, if it was obvious the kids were being mistreated or neglected, otherwise it's just a personal attack on her.

In a sense, I can see where you see that. I wish Palin didn't have a family value agenda. I really really wish she didn't. Then, this wouldn't be an issue.

I guess, and I could be wrong, but I don't see this as an attack on her, but on her agenda. Again, that is me and just my feelings on this.

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Nxt2Hvn
You are right, no one should judge anyone. It's just someone who politically judges others, should follow their own lead. The thing is, if Chelsea Clinton did get pregnant, heck, get pregnant still as a minor, it's different. There would be no double standard, considering I haven't seen the Clinton adminastration try to tell society how to live their lives. Hell, Clinton's lewinsky situation should not have been brought to the media fore front! I felt that was his business.

I am sure Palin politically judges her daughter too - I know my parents would. This would be different if Palin had control over what a 17 year old does and doesn't do.. but she or anybody else can't.

It would also be a different situation if Palin herself went against what she politically believes - as far as I am concerned she is sticking to her conservative values and embracing the idea of becoming a grandparent and supporting her daughter in her choice to NOT have an abortion.

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Stubbly_Dooright
I am sure Palin politically judges her daughter too - I know my parents would. This would be different if Palin had control over what a 17 year old does and doesn't do.. but she or anybody else can't.
That is true, and I have to keep telling myself that, while raising my children. But I like to prove, that I can be consistant and still work at being the parent that I feel I should be.

It would also be a different situation if Palin herself went against what she politically believes - as far as I am concerned she is sticking to her conservative values and embracing the idea of becoming a grandparent and supporting her daughter in her choice to NOT have an abortion.
I do like that she is doing that. I have seen so many times, that those parents with these particular values, do not do that, and kick out their children. This was part of my conversation with my daughter, when she asked me, if I would do that if she got pregnant. I said I wouldn't, and I couldn't understand those that do. I also told her, that doesn't mean that is an excuse to behave freely either, in which she understood me.

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IamsSon
You are right, no one should judge anyone. It's just someone who politically judges others, should follow their own lead. The thing is, if Chelsea Clinton did get pregnant, heck, get pregnant still as a minor, it's different. There would be no double standard, considering I haven't seen the Clinton adminastration try to tell society how to live their lives. Hell, Clinton's lewinsky situation should not have been brought to the media fore front! I felt that was his business.
Well, actually, I have to disagree there. He was a sitting President putting himself, and therefore the country, in a very compromising position. Additionally, he then went on and lied under oath, so not quite just a family situation there.

Exactly. And yes, I can see where you would think, from this thread why there is some who would think women can't do it. Man, I hate it, that we are in the infancy of a very history making election, so that people can still make judgement calls on those based on their gender and skin.
I have a very clear understanding of just how capable women are, so this does not actually make me think women can't do it, but it sure seems like some people all of a sudden want to make us think so.

In a sense, I can see where you see that. I wish Palin didn't have a family value agenda. I really really wish she didn't. Then, this wouldn't be an issue.

I guess, and I could be wrong, but I don't see this as an attack on her, but on her agenda. Again, that is me and just my feelings on this.

I don't think the fact that she is a strong supporter of family values is really an issue. After all, like I said, as long as she and her husband have developed a plan to insure their children are cared for she is supporting a family values agenda.

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Stubbly_Dooright
Well, actually, I have to disagree there. He was a sitting President putting himself, and therefore the country, in a very compromising position. Additionally, he then went on and lied under oath, so not quite just a family situation there.
Well, I was talking about before he went on to lie about it. I'm talking about the conservatives calling him on it. Although, I am not surprised and understand your feeling on that in the long run.

I have a very clear understanding of just how capable women are, so this does not actually make me think women can't do it, but it sure seems like some people all of a sudden want to make us think so.
Unfortunately, there will always be someone who likes us to think so. I just wish that it's further down the line, that we can consider these people not important to the whole sceme of things.

I don't think the fact that she is a strong supporter of family values is really an issue. After all, like I said, as long as she and her husband have developed a plan to insure their children are cared for she is supporting a family values agenda.

Well, I can respect your feelings on the matter. I just thinking differently on it. That is all. I'm with you on that she is considering her family, and that is good.

I just wish anykind of famil values was no one's issue. But you can see, I'll say that until my face if blue.

;)

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SilverCougar

So.. what does the VP do again?

*snickers and ducks*

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MID
I agree, but never forget: Obama is a politician and therefore, by default, a calculating liar. He may be saying that because he knows he's going to win by taking the high road.

Well...there is certainly some merit to the generalization regarding politicians being calculating liars...however, it is not necessarily so in all cases. I will say that there is absolutely calculation and opportunism involved in political moves. Sarah Palin's selection, as brilliant as it appears to be (and I think it is), is no exception. The benefit was absolutly calculated.

It is generally apparent to the astute political observer what's up with these things...although there are certain things that don't compute very well: like Obama's selection of Biden, when he could've chosen someone that might have assured him the Presidency(i.e., Mrs. Clinton).

However, I do not think Obama's comments regarding the treatment of Mrs. Palin by the media is an illustration of him taking the high road, necessarily, save on the surface. Again, it's calculated.

Here's the deal...

Obama knows full well that Hillary is waiting in the wings to see what happens here, and that she's said virtually nothing about this nonsense yet. I think he also knows that she will...at a very calculated time, should it continue unabated.

When and if she does, which again, will be based upon the continuance of the nonsense, it will be an attack against the far left and it's media (which is in fact the group that put her out of business). With her influence, that'll put a huge bullet hole in their influence because of the amount of support that she had...and has. She'll be calculating to take the far left out of the picture, so she'll be in a position to run as the centrist Democrat against McCain in 2012, and the left wing of the party will be weakened to the point of being ineffectual.

It's all calculation, and while Obama may be utterly inexperienced, and naive, he is decidedly not stupid (I think!). He knows this stuff, which is why he said what he said about Palin's treatment...he as well as anyone knows he made a mistake not picking Hillary as his running mate, and he knows he may have made a bigger mistake picking someone like Biden, who not only has a propensity to be wrong on almost every position he takes, and has an irritating impulse to open his mouth and say things he doesn't think about before uttering, but who's also bad-mouthed Obama several times in very public ways during the course of the primary campaign. He is fully aware that the Clinton's won't just disappear into the shadows, and that they can hurt him if they want to.

He probably also knows that they're working on it....

Either way, it doesn't matter. Vote or don't vote for him based on his record and platform as well.

Indeed so!

And we know McCain knew about it how? Because he says he knew? Don't forget, McCain is a politician, and therefore a calculating liar by default. Again, my mantra this entire election is going to be Vote or don't Vote based on record and platform, not his nonsense. If everyone voted based on record and platform, maybe we wouldn't have the embarassments that we put into office in the past, on all levels.

Definitely...vote or not based on platform and experience and record. The choice, it would appear, is becoming rather clear.

However, I think it's encumbent upon people to realize that this potentially inhibiting situation (from a political perspective) had to have been known by McCain, since he's been talking to the Governor for months...it's merely logical. Not only that it was known, but that it was discussed in depth prior to his selction of her as his running mate.

McCain knew, absolutely. He picked her anyway...because it's not a big deal. In fact, it's a positive, and, it rationally is no reflection on the Governor, or her morals, her parenting skills, or her abilities, save this: The fact that her daughter has decided to marry and keep this child

is a very positive reflection on the girl's upbringing.

But that's it. Governor Palin has 5 kids, is of course a Governor of a state, has a huge career, is a Conservative, a hunter, an NRA member, a gutsy, assertive, do-something person who has attacked her own party where applicable (!), is a no-nonsense person of integrity who has a nearly 90% approval rating in her state--which is ridiculously high.

It should also be known that this was common knowledge in Alaska...and no one cares, save to say trhat they admire the decisions of the family and the daughter regarding it.

She is, oddly enough, the epitome of feminist success...in a world where feminists are generally associated with the far left wing fringe anymore.

This plays not only to McCain's needs, but to Hillary's.

It's all calulation....

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MasterPo

(pardon if this observation has already been made in prior pages - I wasn't going to read all 15+)

Just imagine asking similar questions of Hillary about Chelsea:

"Mrs. Clinton, when did Chelsea become sexual active?"

"Mrs. Clinton, did you and your husband instruct Chelsea on birth control?"

"Mrs. Clinton, has Chelsea ever indicated she thought she might be pregnant?"

"Mrs. Clinton, how often is Chelsea tested for STDs? Does that include HIV?"

"Mrs. Clintion, was Chelsea a planned pregnancy or a suprise?"

I could go on but you get the picture. How tasteless!!! :(

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Sherapy
Bristol is practically an adult - and I doubt any parent can control a 17 year old girl completely (unless she is put under lock and key with a chasity belt to go along with it)

I was sexually active at 17, and raised in a very conservative Christian home and it didn't stop me, I am just lucky that I didn't end up pregnant before I got married - not that I personally think that is a bad thing. In my opinion, it's life.

Even though I don't care for Hillary Clinton at all --- I would not hold it against her if Chelsea was a teen and pregnant and Hiliary was running for Pres. or VP.

I think it's pathetic that people try to judge this lady and her family ---- everyone should look in the mirror before they shoot off at their mouth.

Just my opinion.. of course!

i guess it turns out that i have misunderstood conservatism all this time.....

heaven judging another in the context you are inferring perhaps means claiming she is doing wrong ???? the brain reaches conclusions by making judgement calls.....its built into the brain....

I have no preference on how she lives her life she gets to do that, if anything my heart goes out to her......... ... she would not be my pick though , i do not want my kids raising kids at 17 and do not support any alternatives that encourage this but I say no to drugs and alcohol also... i am also a vegan so I do walk my talk ....for me this is important, for another it may not be fair enough........thats the irony of a vote I suppose....lol

I dont think is a conspiracy theory that we have global warming I have freinds who are picking up their lives from another season of hurricanes yt again........I am not for off shore drilling or discriminating against a group of people for no better reason then because a book tells them they should..... I have no problem paying more taxes to help make the world a better place after all its been damn good to me, i live in my dream area already (redondo beach calif...) i spend my time at home with my son , which I feel nothing but gratitude for .... i enjoy a little part time job by choice that buys me my dolce gabana sun glasses and roca wear for the boys and it gives me an opp to give back I give alot of my hair services for free we make givnig back part of our lives ........maybe its my age maybe is where i live because this is the kind of people I am surrounded by and we want to focus our resources and efforts on passing on resources to our kids and the ideas that can do this.........I think all should have health care........... .......my passion is the world and sign me up I am ready to do my part.......

Edited by Tangerine Sheri

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Stubbly_Dooright
McCain knew, absolutely. He picked her anyway...because it's not a big deal. In fact, it's a positive, and, it rationally is no reflection on the Governor, or her morals, her parenting skills, or her abilities, save this: The fact that her daughter has decided to marry and keep this child

is a very positive reflection on the girl's upbringing.

But that's it. Governor Palin has 5 kids, is of course a Governor of a state, has a huge career, is a Conservative, a hunter, an NRA member, a gutsy, assertive, do-something person who has attacked her own party where applicable (!), is a no-nonsense person of integrity who has a nearly 90% approval rating in her state--which is ridiculously high.

It should also be known that this was common knowledge in Alaska...and no one cares, save to say trhat they admire the decisions of the family and the daughter regarding it.

She is, oddly enough, the epitome of feminist success...in a world where feminists are generally associated with the far left wing fringe anymore.

This plays not only to McCain's needs, but to Hillary's.

It's all calulation....

Someone close to me mentioned this, and it's interesting to hear a second opinion of this and match the first opinion. It makes me wonder, all these calculated moves and this just for the election. Will those who seem to thrive in calculated moves, will this help our society when the time comes for them to help it when they are in office?

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IamsSon
So.. what does the VP do again?

*snickers and ducks*

Apparently more than a woman is capable of doing.

*ducks behind SC*

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