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Lt_Ripley

Sarah Palin: Extremist

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MasterPo
Corporations.

Exactly (as well as a LLC's, partnerships etc).

BTW, there are something like 100-to-1 S-corps and small corps (small businesses) in the country than big GE-sized corps.

Eitherway, as with an individual, a corp can pay employees or pay taxes. Can't do both.

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SQLserver
The graph is obvious to me.

Obama wins = taxes go up.

Are you like Bill Gates in disguise? :ph34r:

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MasterPo
To be fair to Carter, he got dealt a **** hand at a **** time.

Funny how Democrat Presidents never make problems only inherit them while Republican Presidents never inherit them only make them.

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BlindMessiah
The one Sub forum to rule them all, naturally.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

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SQLserver

Oh: BM:

I'd suggest making a topic in the SvS forum. That is the only place where we could honestly keep it on subject.

Here, unfortunately, we have fiscal conservatives like MasterPo who don't understand SQL's Law of Politics:

POLITICS AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE!

This is an ESSENTIAL LAW people!

MasterPo:

25 years ago I'd be able to have a Socialism vs Conservatism debate. 25 years ago I could we could have focused on taxes.

But, the law states that is NO LONGER THE CASE.

Today, we live in a world where our basic rights are threatened by NUTJOBS who are beyond a new insane. Many rights are already gone. Even some "Liberals" like Obama voted for FISA!

Today, the Republican Party is no longer about the values of Fiscal Conservatism it used to be. It's been hijacked by the nutjobs.

Anyway, the reality is:

I don't particularly CARE about Socialism vs Conservatism. I think Socialism works better(as we've seen in foreign countries), but both systems are imperfect.

I DO care about my religious rights and my rights as an American.

Cheers,

SQLserver

Funny how Democrat Presidents never make problems only inherit them while Republican Presidents never inherit them only make them.

I've noticed that too.

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BlindMessiah
Oh: BM:

I'd suggest making a topic in the SvS forum. That is the only place where we could honestly keep it on subject.

Here, unfortunately, we have fiscal conservatives like MasterPo who don't understand SQL's Law of Politics:

POLITICS AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE!

This is an ESSENTIAL LAW people!

MasterPo:

25 years ago I'd be able to have a Socialism vs Conservatism debate. 25 years ago I could we could have focused on taxes.

But, the law states that is NO LONGER THE CASE.

Today, we live in a world where our basic rights are threatened by NUTJOBS who are beyond a new insane. Many rights are already gone. Even some "Liberals" like Obama voted for FISA!

Today, the Republican Party is no longer about the values of Fiscal Conservatism it used to be. It's been hijacked by the nutjobs.

Anyway, the reality is:

I don't particularly CARE about Socialism vs Conservatism. I think Socialism works better(as we've seen in foreign countries), but both systems are imperfect.

I DO care about my religious rights and my rights as an American.

Cheers,

SQLserver

I've noticed that too.

Yes, my main concerns in politics is freedom and humanitarianism. Those are the issues I care about as you seem to as well.

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Mr  Honeybadger
Are you like Bill Gates in disguise? :ph34r:

No. Just someone who is tired of seeing tax increases. Even if it is for wealthy people.

Keep in mind Bill Gates has given billions to charity and employees close to 90,000 people. Keeping his taxes low allows him to be very charitable aswell as expand his company and hire more employees.

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MasterPo
No. Just someone who is tired of seeing tax increases. Even if it is for wealthy people.

I've never seen a poor person give someone a career job. :tu:

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ninjadude
Eitherway, as with an individual, a corp can pay employees or pay taxes. Can't do both.

That's pretty funny considering that paying taxes and employess is exactly what all corporations do now. They do both. Unless you're saying workers work for free or that companies don't pay their taxes and thus are being taken over by the government for non-payment.

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Guardsman Bass
Funny how Democrat Presidents never make problems only inherit them while Republican Presidents never inherit them only make them.

Do you actually dispute it? Let's take a look -

1)Inflation- This was not Carter's fault. A lot of this had to do with a second oil embargo by OPEC, as well as the lingering effects of the first oil embargo. There was also the increasingly potent wage-price spiral, which had been in motion since after World War 2 but was now starting to become bad (again, nothing he had control over, and there was very little he could have done other than demand that his Federal Reserve Chairman hike interest rates to hell and back like what happened in the Reagan years - and the Chairman doesn't have to obey him). Then add the results of massive spending on Vietnam and the Great Society at the same time from the LBJ era continuing into the Nixon years, and you get a nice, unpleasant mess that landed right in Carter's lap.

2)Military- The US military was in really bad straights following the end of Vietnam. A lot of this was the collective stupidity of Kennedy, LBJ, and Nixon in prosecuting the Vietnam War (particularly LBJ, for turning it into an active US war with hundreds of thousands of US troops rather than a proxy war). Carter bears some responsibility for not trying to do a broad reconstruction of the force in this period (he did start it in the area of nuclear submarines), but he probably could never have gotten the domestic support for it in the way Reagan did.

3)Energy- Again, this was not Carter's fault. US domestic oil production reached its peak in 1973, and has never reached that height again since then (it went up a little bit when the North Slope oil fields in Alaska came into production, but since the late 1970s has almost steadily declined year after year), which brought the end of an era of energy security for the US. The importance of this shift can not be understated; much of American society, including the "car culture", emerged because of the availability of cheap petroleum due to the fact that America was still a major oil producer that could produce more than it consumed (and export oil as well; the US provided vast quantities of oil to its allies in World War 2). Since the price of oil affects countless other prices, this made America deeply vulnerable to the oil weapon, which is historically what happened; OPEC used it, and the US was stuck with the consequences.

There is not much Carter could have done, although he tried. He did manage to get massive increases in automotive efficiency, to the point where US gasoline consumption actually declined in 1979, but he couldn't change America from a society that was heavily dependent on oil in only four years - and that was when most of the renewable technologies were in their infancies.

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Guardsman Bass

Interestingly enough, Glenn Greenwald has some good information on Sarah Palin from her Mayorship days here. It's part of a greater piece on Mark Halperin's dishonest media coverage, but it has some good insights on Palin. To make it short, Palin basically got into office by using wedge strategies, then once in office acted like a petty tyrant Bush-style, firing highly respected Department heads because she didn't trust them (and in the librarian's case, because said librarian refused to give her support to an idea of banning certain books as proposed by Palin).

Is this the woman you want to potentially run the US should McCain become incapacitated? Someone who has repeatedly played politics with highly professional areas like the police force, and who makes use of the typical wedge strategies of the Republican Right? People have been complaining about McCain being Bush's Third Term, but perhaps they should be more afraid of Palin resembling that.

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Lt_Ripley
Funny how Democrat Presidents never make problems only inherit them while Republican Presidents never inherit them only make them.

well Clinton inherited a **** load of debt from Bush the First and cleaned that up. Who's going to clean up the crap this Bush made ? Cons always yap about smaller governments and less debt but have never been able to do it.

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acidhead
well Clinton inherited a **** load of debt from Bush the First and cleaned that up. Who's going to clean up the crap this Bush made ? Cons always yap about smaller governments and less debt but have never been able to do it.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Federal Reserve was responsible for booming the bust left from Bush #1..

(We shouldn't kid ourselves about the true nature of the Fed, which is inherently incompatible with real free market capitalism. Centralized planning of the money supply is a form of economic control that significantly affects prices, wages, and production levels. The money supply, as measured by the Fed's own M3 figure, has increased about 5 times since 1980. Yet for years officials at the Fed have insisted that inflation is firmly in check.

Inflation is not in check, as anyone who examines the cost of housing, energy, medical care, school tuition, and other basics can attest. In one sense the remarkable rise in housing prices over the last decade really just represents a drop in the value of the dollar. The artificial boom in the 1990s equity markets, engineered by Mr. Greenspan's relentless monetary expansion and interest rate cutting, ended badly for millions of Americans holding overinflated stocks. What will happen when the same thing happens with housing? -Ron Paul November 29, 2005 http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul292.html )

.. it makes one wonder if Hillary was really supposed to inherit the throne.. then along strolled the inexperienced yet inspirational Barack Obama?

..that one really has me watching closely..

..Michelle Obama appeared very nervous the night Barack suddenly appeared after Joe Biden finished his acceptance speech.

..Michelle looked bewildered and some what frightened while the cameras were switching from her to Barack to Hillary and then to her ..uh..husband..uh ummmmm.

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Mr.Peabody
I've never seen a poor person give someone a career job. :tu:

I haven't seen alot of rich people get rich without it costing the poor people .

I haven't seen alot of rich people making jobs that are 'careers' lately either.

Edited by Mr.Peabody

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Mr.Peabody
I think it would be more accurate to say that the Federal Reserve was responsible for booming the bust left from Bush #1..

(We shouldn't kid ourselves about the true nature of the Fed, which is inherently incompatible with real free market capitalism. Centralized planning of the money supply is a form of economic control that significantly affects prices, wages, and production levels. The money supply, as measured by the Fed's own M3 figure, has increased about 5 times since 1980. Yet for years officials at the Fed have insisted that inflation is firmly in check.

Inflation is not in check, as anyone who examines the cost of housing, energy, medical care, school tuition, and other basics can attest. In one sense the remarkable rise in housing prices over the last decade really just represents a drop in the value of the dollar. The artificial boom in the 1990s equity markets, engineered by Mr. Greenspan's relentless monetary expansion and interest rate cutting, ended badly for millions of Americans holding overinflated stocks. What will happen when the same thing happens with housing? -Ron Paul November 29, 2005 http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul292.html )

.. it makes one wonder if Hillary was really supposed to inherit the throne.. then along strolled the inexperienced yet inspirational Barack Obama?

..that one really has me watching closely..

..Michelle Obama appeared very nervous the night Barack suddenly appeared after Joe Biden finished his acceptance speech.

..Michelle looked bewildered and some what frightened while the cameras were switching from her to Barack to Hillary and then to her ..uh..husband..uh ummmmm.

I agree with you.

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AROCES
well Clinton inherited a **** load of debt from Bush the First and cleaned that up. Who's going to clean up the crap this Bush made ? Cons always yap about smaller governments and less debt but have never been able to do it.

Don't forget that Bush Sr. had to deal with a Democrat controlled Congress and Clinton broke rank with the Dem and went along with the Republican controlled Congress.

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Nxt2Hvn
You don't know what the heck you are talking about. Sorry, unless you make over $603,403 a year(sorry, I doubt you do), you've get a tax cut. Most of us will get taxed more by McCain then Obama.

Seriously Stop spewing ridiculous propaganda and get back to reality.

Your reality or mine? I prefer mine, but thanks for the neighborly invite ;)

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Harte
*Before someone objects that she's not a Creationist (and I'm not sure how much we know about that), if she holds a policy position that says Creationism should be taught alongside actual science in schools then she is effectively a Creationist. Her policy beliefs are more important than her personal beliefs and she's dead wrong on this one.

Startraveler,

I can't agree with most of the over-the-top rhetoric in you posted, but I can absolutely agree that anyone that wants Intelligent Design to be taught in public school is certainly dead wrong.

But, on the other hand, this is politics, it's a political position, a political selection and was made in an attempt to garner votes. It's been at least twenty years since I've been surprised (or very upset) by anything any politician has done in any campaign.

IOW, I doubt very much that many so-called conservatives really believe that Intelligent design should be taught. It's just a way of getting the Bubba vote. After all, if one party doesn't go after a certain bloc, the other one absolutely will. It's all pandering, all of it.

Also, why on Earth is she being billed as "in Big Oil's pocket" or whatever. For God's sake, she's the Governor of one of the few oil-producing states. The people that elected her depend on that industry. What would the governor of Alaska be expected to do - shut down drilling there?

Get freaking real.

All. Of. It.

Harte

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AROCES

So we get rid of creationism and teach Liberalism instead, right? ^_^

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SoCrazes
The Republican party didn't select Palin, that was John McCain. I never supported him and, in fact I like Palin better than him.

She will be a rising star in the years to come and I won't be surprised to see a Clinton Palin duel in 2012. That's why the liberals are going after her, they're scared. No other logical reason, especially since they wouldn't vote for McCain no matter what.

This is what opened my eyes to it all:

There is no doubt that McCain again is making a strategic choice to appeal to a particular demographic - fundamentalist right-wing gun-owning Christians. And Republican bloggers are already gushing about how she has ‘more executive experience’ than Obama does! Above is a picture of lovely downtown Wasilla, for those of you unfamiliar with the area. Behind the Mug-Shot Saloon (the first bar I visited when I moved to Alaska long ago) is a little strip mall. There are street signs in Wasilla with bullet holes in them. Wasilla has a population of about 5500 people, and 1979 occupied housing units. This is where your potential Vice President was two short years ago. Can you imagine her negotiating a nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Discussing foreign policy? Understanding non-Alaskan issues? Frankly, I don’t even know if she’s ever been out of the country. She may ‘get’ Alaska, but there are only a half a million people here.

Edited by SoCrazes

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BlindMessiah
So we get rid of creationism and teach Liberalism instead, right? ^_^

No, we were thinking something more along the lines of science. *gasp* Wrap your head around that one.

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AROCES
No, we were thinking something more along the lines of science. *gasp* Wrap your head around that one.

Science knows excatly how man got created? Or a tree?

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BlindMessiah
Science knows excatly how man got created? Or a tree?

Why am I not surprised that you're a creationist...?

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Karlis

Hi everyone -- would you agree or disagree with the following short summary excerpt written by Jill Zuckman, for Chicago Tribune? More to the point, do these "qualities" give Palin credibility as a potential VP? From whatever point one may look at her, she certainly does not appear to be a "pushover", or incapable of leadership.

Karlis

… She ''knows what it's like to worry about mortgage payments and health care and the cost of gasoline and groceries,'' said McCain, who met Palin in February. ''And I am especially proud to say in the week we celebrate the anniversary of women's suffrage a devoted wife and a mother of five.''

With the surprise choice of Palin, McCain reached out to female voters, union members and people worried about the economy. He also reassured social conservatives and evangelical voters with Palin's strong anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage stance.

… Jill Hazelbaker, a spokeswoman for McCain, said, ''She has a record of accomplishment that Sen. Obama simply cannot match. Governor Palin has spent her time in office shaking up government in Alaska and actually achieving results — whether it's taking on corruption, passing ethics reform or stopping wasteful spending and the 'bridge to nowhere.' Senator Obama has spent his time in office running for president.''

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/27687654.html

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Guardsman Bass
… She ''knows what it's like to worry about mortgage payments and health care and the cost of gasoline and groceries,'' said McCain, who met Palin in February. ''And I am especially proud to say in the week we celebrate the anniversary of women's suffrage a devoted wife and a mother of five.''

That might make her more sympathetic, but it doesn't make her a good leader.

… Jill Hazelbaker, a spokeswoman for McCain, said, ''She has a record of accomplishment that Sen. Obama simply cannot match. Governor Palin has spent her time in office shaking up government in Alaska and actually achieving results — whether it's taking on corruption, passing ethics reform or stopping wasteful spending and the 'bridge to nowhere.' Senator Obama has spent his time in office running for president.''

Except, of course, when that wasteful spending could benefit her town. She helped finish off the Bridge to Nowhere (although it was in the death throes in 2007), but kept the money. Then, of course, there's the fact that it's kind of hard to get worried about "wasteful spending" when your state is rolling in the money from high oil prices.

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