Large Hadron Collider is activated

[Mbyte]

Could someone explain this thing in baby speak to those of us idiots who have no clue. Sounds like the death star to me?

Scientists want to see want to know what particles do when they collide. I think they are a bit too egotistic when they say that they can understand the universe by this alone. Particles collide everywear and science wants to observe particles in controlled enviroment so they know what happens. After a few hundred times of observing particles crash they think they will be able to understand the universe better. The problem with watcing particles with out this tube is that you can never see the true effect of what happens because by even looking at the particle you are effecting it. We all seem like solid thins but if you could zoom in a lot then all you would see in emppty space or energy between atoms. particles are smaller again.

[rezna]

WHO are you guys talking about? Steve Hawkins is a basketball coach

STEPHEN HAWKING is a scientist. I can't believe this has gone on for two pages already and no one has said anything about this. Get the freakin' name right. Everything you guys have said, who have named Stephen as a source for your thought, just made your thought TOTALLY WORTHLESS because you couldn't even get his name right!!!

I don't think anything huge is going to happen. Humans are not capable of destroying the Universe yet.

[Shadowmalerenamon]

WHO are you guys talking about? Steve Hawkins is a basketball coach

STEPHEN HAWKING is a scientist. I can't believe this has gone on for two pages already and no one has said anything about this. Get the freakin' name right. Everything you guys have said, who have named Stephen as a source for your thought, just made your thought TOTALLY WORTHLESS because you couldn't even get his name right!!!

I don't think anything huge is going to happen. Humans are not capable of destroying the Universe yet.

I think they were just trying to shorten his name. My name is Stephen as well, but I usually shorten it as Steve whenever possible. It really isn't a big deal to use an abbreviation of a name and has no bearing on the persons credibility. Nobody has said anything about it because it really doesn't matter much. Also while we can't destroy the universe yet, we do possess the power to destroy the Earth, but we also possess the power to keep that destruction from happenning....at least to a certain extent.

[Mbyte]

So what if it isn't a natural occurrence when we do it? It's still the same process and reaction.

The machine is nothing more than a thing that can allow us to watch and measure the reaction. If it hasn't run beyond control in nature, it won't run beyond control in the collider, which even has a glaring advantage over nature - it can be turned off.

All you doomsayers have your fun, but be sure to be graceful when your fears come up unfounded. I expect you will all be very quiet when the planet does not explode/implode/get eaten by this thing and you will all move on to fearing something else that shouldn't be.

I suppose you could look at the pharmacutical industry for example. They make unnatural made pills. All drugs (medicine) have side effects and what they do is concoct another drug to try and get the same results maybe even better to heal the patient and less side affects. Herbs don't give you side effects, heal the same things. there's a pain killer advert on Irish TV and a guy is talking about how he's letting down his rowing team with his back pain. He takes pain killers and now he can work with his rowing team and he tells us how these painkillers have made his life easier. It's just pure propaganda. The guys back in pain so he takes pain killers so he doesn't feel his back problem which is still there. He constantly takes painkillers untill he realises he has two options go in a wheel chair or get surgery and the enevatably end up in a wheel chair.

Pharmacy drugs seem natural or the same as natural but there is always a big diffrence.

[Mbyte]

WHO are you guys talking about? Steve Hawkins is a basketball coach

STEPHEN HAWKING is a scientist. I can't believe this has gone on for two pages already and no one has said anything about this. Get the freakin' name right. Everything you guys have said, who have named Stephen as a source for your thought, just made your thought TOTALLY WORTHLESS because you couldn't even get his name right!!!

I don't think anything huge is going to happen. Humans are not capable of destroying the Universe yet.

I said hawkins...

[LogicalPiccolo]

WHO are you guys talking about? Steve Hawkins is a basketball coach

STEPHEN HAWKING is a scientist. I can't believe this has gone on for two pages already and no one has said anything about this. Get the freakin' name right. Everything you guys have said, who have named Stephen as a source for your thought, just made your thought TOTALLY WORTHLESS because you couldn't even get his name right!!!

I don't think anything huge is going to happen. Humans are not capable of destroying the Universe yet.

A rose by another name would smell as sweet no? I was merely replying as his name was used. I apologize that good thought out theories and a very educated debate has been completely fumbled for you because his name was pronounced or spelled wrong.

And as these scientists do not ultimately know what will come of this, you cannot ultimately know that we are not capable of destroying the universe. Dabbling in things of this proportion with limited understanding is dangerous. Good outcome or not.

I don't think, at least on my end, anyone is trying to say that something absolutely horrible is going to happen. I've been trying to explain that, yes, it is quite possible nothing bad will happen. It is quite possible we will have a better understanding. All of the good things we are looking for are possible to be found. But to say it is IMpossible that NOTHING bad will happen, is mere speculation.

Scientists do not fully know was causes a black hole, and they do not fully know how to control one even if they were able to forcefully make one. Mr. HawkinG is an educated man, and I respect his position as a scientists. But without full knowledge of this scenario, he cannot possible be so knowledgeable as to say a black hole is impossible within this experimentation, especially if other scientists believe it enough of a possibility to voice a hesitation with it.

[Moonie2012]

Yes, and machines malfunction. Daily. Whether you're talking about something as simple as a blender, or something as big as a supercomputer...cars, printers, mp3 players, all machines have the capacity to malfunction. It was mentioned "The team was holding its breath in the countdown to the switch-on after a series of technical hitches, including problems with the cooling system." So obviously, this machine is no different. To say that this machine can create the exact environment that nature does, or will create the exact environment as the Universe had during the Big Bang, is merely hope and speculation based on scientific research and findings.

Again, no scientist (at least as of yet) has ever found the ultimate and absolute truth. And a machine made by flawed humans, which we all are, has a potential to flaw or have flaws. Thus, they do not know for sure that something will not go wrong. And, they are attempting to forcefully create something that happens naturally by nature's own force and laws which we do not govern. Attempting to act in a governing state in which we do not have full knowledge and control, we are capable of finding new and wonderful things. But potentially, we could find new and horrible things.

All I'm saying is that the actual collisions the collider creates pose no threat - if the machine mechanically malfunctions and causes some sort of localized accident, that's a whole different thing - but as far as it running out of control to the point of not being able to stop the collisions, I would guess they have about 1000 failsafes on the thing that can shut down the actual collisions at any time.

So, yeah, maybe if you live directly next door to it you may have a reason to worry - but the rest of us will be fine.

How long will it have to run successfully before you admit it was nothing to worry about?

Edited September 10, 2008 by Moonie2012

[LogicalPiccolo]

I suppose you could look at the pharmacutical industry for example. They make unnatural made pills. All drugs (medicine) have side effects and what they do is concoct another drug to try and get the same results maybe even better to heal the patient and less side affects. Herbs don't give you side effects, heal the same things. there's a pain killer advert on Irish TV and a guy is talking about how he's letting down his rowing team with his back pain. He takes pain killers and now he can work with his rowing team and he tells us how these painkillers have made his life easier. It's just pure propaganda. The guys back in pain so he takes pain killers so he doesn't feel his back problem which is still there. He constantly takes painkillers untill he realises he has two options go in a wheel chair or get surgery and the enevatably end up in a wheel chair.

Pharmacy drugs seem natural or the same as natural but there is always a big diffrence.

This is a good point, not to mention, that there are many drugs that have been prescribed throughout history, that were later taken away because scientists and doctors did not foresee the horrible side effects they had. This situation isn't all that different, as it is not possible with our current understanding of particle physics and black holes to completely comprehend all the possible outcomes of this process.

[Azatarai]

Why Work out how to use Fire... because its scary, hurts and we don't know what it is

Experimentation is the only way that we will ever get anywhere

besides, imploding is not such a bad thing, at least we will all die quickly

[Azalin]

Thought I would add my 2 cents as well. Me being a man of faith am little nervous of it all myself, but in a different aspect then scientific black holes. Using the technology it is said they can possibly identify other 3rd dimensions , according to Quantum Physics. Imagine, just for a second Heaven and Hell are real planes of existence, the battle on earth is opened up by mankind. Even opening up a gateway to the afterlife. Many spiritual happens are un-resolved and unknown by Science. As interesting as this could come out to be, it can also be dangerous.

God Bless, Azalin

[Cradle of Fish]

Hawkins had a concern once that black holes were sucking up the universe but then said that he was wrong.

First of all every scientist is ill informed as well. There's a diffrence between cosmic particles and particles which we force to move near the speed of light with magnet feilds. Scientists don't know whats going to happen when the particles clash. They have an Idea like we have an idea. Of course any credentials are overlooked when a person with credentials expresses concern or worry. I just find it amazing that non of them seem to think that something could happen. There's cooling systems on this thing. It's going to be running for years. No worries here folks!!!

You sound paranoid. Just because one person with credentials raises concerns doesn't mean we should ignore the thousands of others with credentials who assure us it'll go well.

This is a good point. I think that scientists have done this project for the "greater good" Despite people starving in africa and wars all over the world. I think they are so hell bent on finding meaning that they actually want to know what the meaning is so they no what to do with the starving children in africa. They don't mean anything until the experiment tells them they have meaning.

That's ridiculous. It has been shown time and time again what happens when you just throw money at Africa, the dictators take it. We've tried directly intervening in Africa and it just doesn't work. Technically if every medical scientist in the world joined together and worked towards curing cancer we could make a better world, but it's unrealistic.

I think the questions about our origins are incredibly important, and I want them answered.

[Mbyte]

That's ridiculous. It has been shown time and time again what happens when you just throw money at Africa, the dictators take it. We've tried directly intervening in Africa and it just doesn't work. Technically if every medical scientist in the world joined together and worked towards curing cancer we could make a better world, but it's unrealistic.

I think the questions about our origins are incredibly important, and I want them answered.

You're answer proves exactly what I have said... !

You said it yourself. Questions of our origions are more important then cancer.

[bmk1245]

Professor Otto Rossler, the scientist voicing his hesitations, is not without his merits. He too is a very educated man, and has made contributions to the scientific community, it is not like he's some random crackpot.

But he is not particle physicist - his interests are in theoretical biochemistry and chemistry. So Hawkings and other particle physicists are more reliable in this case.

[chrisfreak]

But what if after the effort building the LHC, and its tremendous cost, the scientists still can't find the answer?

[ROGER]

From the sounds of the posts there are a number of people here who fear knowledge, science, and advancement .

If this is indeed true, then shut down the computer, turn in your cell phones, and get outside and grow more CORN for the Starving masses! Leave the science to the people who work with it all week.

[Dakotabre]

From the sounds of the posts there are a number of people here who fear knowledge, science, and advancement .

If this is indeed true, then shut down the computer, turn in your cell phones, and get outside and grow more CORN for the Starving masses! Leave the science to the people who work with it all week.

I don't think a number of people 'fear' knowledge, science and advancement!! What is the reason scientists are doing this experiment?? -Because they DON'T KNOW what will happen when the particles collide! NO-ONE KNOWS what is going to happen, so it is understandable that people will have fears of the outcome!!

I don't know much about this but I would assume that the 'cooling' part of this 'experiment' is a safety issue, and they have stated that they even had technical issues with the cooling, which is a concern.

The scientist aren't experimenting with a match and a piece of paper.... They are playing with, what they think started space, the universe, the planets, life etc - And they think thats perfectly safe??? Personally I think they are playing with danger, and No I don't mean that I believe the Earth will be gobbled up by a black whole, but I do think that it is possible it have huge negative consequenses!!

I also believe that just because some scientists say it is perfectly safe, then that certainly doesn't mean it's all ok! Throughout history science theories have constantly changed, one day they think 'this' is how something happens or 'this' is how something works..... then years later they turn around and go 'Oh, we discovered something different now and we NOW know that 'THIS' is how it happens or works'.... So because scientists including S. Hawkin, says it's all ok.... doesn't mean that it's all ok... It just means that from their knowledge and belief so far, that everything is going to be ok. When really they have no idea!!

It said something in that article about it reaching it's potential or something in 2010..... Does that mean that this machine will continue to get stronger and stronger until 2010??

[LogicalPiccolo]

From the sounds of the posts there are a number of people here who fear knowledge, science, and advancement .

If this is indeed true, then shut down the computer, turn in your cell phones, and get outside and grow more CORN for the Starving masses! Leave the science to the people who work with it all week.

This is in my opinion an ignorant statement. You obviously have not been paying total attention to everything the people on the skeptical side of this are saying.

I've only seen one MAYBE two posts in this discussion that might suggest a genuine fear.

This is not a matter of fearing "knowledge, science, and advancement." At least, not on my part.

It is a matter of a scientist who does not factually know the outcome of this experiment, to take responsibility for the possibility of severely negative consequences of these actions.

[chaoszerg]

It's natural to fear the unknown, but we wont get anywhere if we don't take a closer look and test it.

[AlexG]

From the sounds of the posts there are a number of people here who fear knowledge, science, and advancement .

If this is indeed true, then shut down the computer, turn in your cell phones, and get outside and grow more CORN for the Starving masses! Leave the science to the people who work with it all week.

This is what happens when you have Liberal Arts majors.

[WolfHawk]

If the particles are traveling at almost the speed of light, why does it take 30 days to see a collision?

[AlexG]

If the particles are traveling at almost the speed of light, why does it take 30 days to see a collision?

It's going to be at least a month before they ramp up the power. So far, there's been no collisions.

[Rosencrantz]

This is in my opinion an ignorant statement. You obviously have not been paying total attention to everything the people on the skeptical side of this are saying.

I've only seen one MAYBE two posts in this discussion that might suggest a genuine fear.

This is not a matter of fearing "knowledge, science, and advancement." At least, not on my part.

It is a matter of a scientist who does not factually know the outcome of this experiment, to take responsibility for the possibility of severely negative consequences of these actions.

You realize that there is no reason in doing experiments if you 'factually know the outcome' of them?

Edited September 11, 2008 by Rosencrantz

[EratiC_ManiaC]

hmmmm

All this talk is tiring, oh and did you know that black holes are caused by gravitational collapse. effectivley. when an object's internal pressure is insufficient to resist the object's own gravity. For stars this usually occurs either because a star has too little "fuel" left to maintain its temperature, or because a star which would have been stable receives a lot of extra matter in a way which does not raise its core temperature. In either case the star's temperature is no longer high enough to prevent it from collapsing under its own weight.

SO! for this 'Hadron Collider' to create a black hole, would be amazing. as it would have to transform EARTH into a star, then somehow dispose of our gravity/mass.

MICRO black holes are another story all togeather. Such an energy to produce a micro black hole is orders of magnitude greater than that which can be produced on Earth in particle accelerators such as the LHC These collisons that they are trying to recreate, are everyday happening in our very atmosphere, so everyone settle the hell down!! its not going to end the world as we know it and suck us all into a micro black hole!!!

The one thing i want to know is, scientists are saying "we are trying to simulate the the few seconds following the big bang" with the collision happening at 99.99999% of the speed of light. wont that recreate the big bang to 99.9999%?

This worries me, as they do not have the SLIGHTEST clue what those circumstances were when the big bang happend, and if this collision does infact recreate the big bang and the few seconds following, wont that create matter? as well as anti-matter?

In turn creating another universe under Switzerland?

bit of a drastic change in view, but i cant help wondering...

[EratiC_ManiaC]

ok i just had my question answerd for me.

And i quote from my wise father "the collider will only produce the big bang conditions in a tiny spot - not using the entire matter in the universe."

hence, nothing to worry about. cool. and turning off the collider is like letting go of the mainsheet on a boat, thats the rope that pulls the sail in for those ignorant.

[Cradle of Fish]

You're answer proves exactly what I have said... !

You said it yourself. Questions of our origions are more important then cancer.

No I didn't, read it again. And maybe a second time until it makes sense to you.