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IrishAidan07

McCain/Palin - Liars

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IrishAidan07

Here is a lovely Op-Ed I pulled from the New York Times, written by Paul Krugman. A sissy when arguing face-to-face with someone, but a genius when it comes to putting it on paper - or screen.

Blizzard Of Lies

Did you hear about how Barack Obama wants to have sex education in kindergarten, and called Sarah Palin a pig? Did you hear about how Ms. Palin told Congress, “Thanks, but no thanks” when it wanted to buy Alaska a Bridge to Nowhere?

These stories have two things in common: they’re all claims recently made by the McCain campaign — and they’re all out-and-out lies.

Dishonesty is nothing new in politics. I spent much of 2000 — my first year at The Times — trying to alert readers to the blatant dishonesty of the Bush campaign’s claims about taxes, spending and Social Security.

But I can’t think of any precedent, at least in America, for the blizzard of lies since the Republican convention. The Bush campaign’s lies in 2000 were artful — you needed some grasp of arithmetic to realize that you were being conned. This year, however, the McCain campaign keeps making assertions that anyone with an Internet connection can disprove in a minute, and repeating these assertions over and over again.

Take the case of the Bridge to Nowhere, which supposedly gives Ms. Palin credentials as a reformer. Well, when campaigning for governor, Ms. Palin didn’t say “no thanks” — she was all for the bridge, even though it had already become a national scandal, insisting that she would “not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that’s so negative.”

Oh, and when she finally did decide to cancel the project, she didn’t righteously reject a handout from Washington: she accepted the handout, but spent it on something else. You see, long before she decided to cancel the bridge, Congress had told Alaska that it could keep the federal money originally earmarked for that project and use it elsewhere.

So the whole story of Ms. Palin’s alleged heroic stand against wasteful spending is fiction.

Or take the story of Mr. Obama’s alleged advocacy of kindergarten sex-ed. In reality, he supported legislation calling for “age and developmentally appropriate education”; in the case of young children, that would have meant guidance to help them avoid sexual predators.

And then there’s the claim that Mr. Obama’s use of the ordinary metaphor “putting lipstick on a pig” was a sexist smear, and on and on.

Why do the McCain people think they can get away with this stuff? Well, they’re probably counting on the common practice in the news media of being “balanced” at all costs. You know how it goes: If a politician says that black is white, the news report doesn’t say that he’s wrong, it reports that “some Democrats say” that he’s wrong. Or a grotesque lie from one side is paired with a trivial misstatement from the other, conveying the impression that both sides are equally dirty.

They’re probably also counting on the prevalence of horse-race reporting, so that instead of the story being “McCain campaign lies,” it becomes “Obama on defensive in face of attacks.”

Still, how upset should we be about the McCain campaign’s lies? I mean, politics ain’t beanbag, and all that.

One answer is that the muck being hurled by the McCain campaign is preventing a debate on real issues — on whether the country really wants, for example, to continue the economic policies of the last eight years.

But there’s another answer, which may be even more important: how a politician campaigns tells you a lot about how he or she would govern.

I’m not talking about the theory, often advanced as a defense of horse-race political reporting, that the skills needed to run a winning campaign are the same as those needed to run the country. The contrast between the Bush political team’s ruthless effectiveness and the heckuva job done by the Bush administration is living, breathing, bumbling, and, in the case of the emerging Interior Department scandal, coke-snorting and bed-hopping proof to the contrary.

I’m talking, instead, about the relationship between the character of a campaign and that of the administration that follows. Thus, the deceptive and dishonest 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign provided an all-too-revealing preview of things to come. In fact, my early suspicion that we were being misled about the threat from Iraq came from the way the political tactics being used to sell the war resembled the tactics that had earlier been used to sell the Bush tax cuts.

And now the team that hopes to form the next administration is running a campaign that makes Bush-Cheney 2000 look like something out of a civics class. What does that say about how that team would run the country?

What it says, I’d argue, is that the Obama campaign is wrong to suggest that a McCain-Palin administration would just be a continuation of Bush-Cheney. If the way John McCain and Sarah Palin are campaigning is any indication, it would be much, much worse.

Edited by IrishAidan

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IrishAidan07

I think the Op-Ed addresses much of the rubbish that's been floating around the forum about Obama.

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danielost

Obama wants to raise taxes and spend.

McCain doesn't want to raise taxes but wants to spend.

No one wants to cut spending. The only way out of the red is to cut spending or at least slow it down.

As for the bridge to no where she was told she could keep the money and use it for something else and she did. She did no wrong here, as you democrats are so found of saying it isn't what I do it is what I say today.

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IrishAidan07
She did no wrong here, as you democrats are so found of saying it isn't what I do it is what I say today.

LOL. Right or Wrong isn't the point. She and McCain are trying to tell people that she told them she wasn't going to take the money - period. As I've said, I like Palin. But for Christ sakes, be honest.

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supercar

Lies? Look at the lies told by Democratic Vice Presidential Candidate Joe Biden on October 10,2002:

'Saddam is dangerous. The world would be a better place without him.

But the reason he poses a growing danger to the United States and its

allies is that he possesses chemical and biological weapons'

http://politicallibrary.net/library/B/Bide..._2002_10_10.htm

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Startraveler
Obama wants to raise taxes and spend.

The vast majority of Americans enjoy a larger income tax break under Obama's plan than they do under McCain's.

McCain doesn't want to raise taxes but wants to spend.

Well, he doesn't want to raise income taxes. He does want to tax employer-paid health benefits.

Lies?

Yes, lies. Every new McCain ad is chock full of them. Bill Burton said it best: " Last week, John McCain told Time magazine he couldn't define what honor was. Now we know why."

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Homer

Although I refuse to get into specifics, politicians and liars are one and the same. Politics and lies are married to each other, and being a good politician is the same as being a good lawyer or a salesman. It’s not about the good or bad, right or wrong, but how well you can present your case, manipulate the masses, sell your product.

During an election year lies are going to increase almost exponentially.

Show me a politician that doesn’t lie and I will show you a politician looking for a new job.

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Nxt2Hvn
Although I refuse to get into specifics, politicians and liars are one and the same. Politics and lies are married to each other, and being a good politician is the same as being a good lawyer or a salesman. It’s not about the good or bad, right or wrong, but how well you can present your case, manipulate the masses, sell your product.

During an election year lies are going to increase almost exponentially.

Show me a politician that doesn’t lie and I will show you a politician looking for a new job.

Well pointed out Homer .... Now that is the most "truthful" post I have seen in a long time!

***How the heck ya been Homer... long time no see.....****

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Demian
Although I refuse to get into specifics, politicians and liars are one and the same. Politics and lies are married to each other, and being a good politician is the same as being a good lawyer or a salesman. It’s not about the good or bad, right or wrong, but how well you can present your case, manipulate the masses, sell your product.

During an election year lies are going to increase almost exponentially.

Show me a politician that doesn’t lie and I will show you a politician looking for a new job.

I wouldn't say being a liar and being a politician is the same thing nor does it have to be connected. What a "good" politician does isn't lying it's diverting attention from a truth or answering a question without answering but leaving people satisfied. We might say we want an honest straight talking politician but if we are presented with reality we'll have to deal with real stuff and not just fluff, and who wants that? Apparently not many.

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Aztec Warrior

So let me get this straight. Palin said no to the bridge to nowhere. No lie there.

She used the money for other public work projects. She never said anything about the public funds. No lie there.

So what is the point of your thread....politicians change their minds? Like Obama is now for drilling.

It's wothless threads likes these, based on Democratic talking points that explains McCain leading in the polls.

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Startraveler
So let me get this straight. Palin said no to the bridge to nowhere. No lie there.

But more than a bit misleading, particularly as the notion is being presented that she opposed it on something other than purely political grounds.

Republican candidate for governor Sarah Palin supports the airport bridge project, her spokesman says. Ms. Palin told KTUU-TV last week that she would look to the federal government to write more checks for the project.

--
Anchorage Daily News
, October 25, 2006

I don't care if she backed off for political reasons. Political reasons are good reasons if you're a politician. But let's not kid ourselves that she's some sort of anti-pork crusader.

She used the money for other public work projects. She never said anything about the public funds. No lie there.

Does she oppose pork barrel spending or not?

Like Obama is now for drilling.

More disingenuous rhetoric. Obama has indicated he's willing to give offshore drilling to the other side if the rest of his energy agenda is implemented. That is, he's willing to grant a concession to the opposition in exchange for something of greater value to himself. He hasn't joined the other side as you imply. Most of his campaign has been structured around the concept of compromising to move forward. Voila.

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Whangarei

I urge everyone to vote this time. Democrats talk the talk but they don't walk the walk down to the polling sites. Get out and vote. We can't have the McCain Palin trainwreck win. I can't imagine them in office for a week, let alone 4 years. God help us all if that happens. Obama is the only decent, well spoken and intelligent candidate we've seen in a long long time.

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AROCES
Here is a lovely Op-Ed I pulled from the New York Times, written by Paul Krugman. A sissy when arguing face-to-face with someone, but a genius when it comes to putting it on paper - or screen.

Take the case of the Bridge to Nowhere, which supposedly gives Ms. Palin credentials as a reformer. Well, when campaigning for governor, Ms. Palin didn’t say “no thanks” — she was all for the bridge, even though it had already become a national scandal, insisting that she would “not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that’s so negative.”

Oh, and when she finally did decide to cancel the project, she didn’t righteously reject a handout from Washington: she accepted the handout, but spent it on something else. You see, long before she decided to cancel the bridge, Congress had told Alaska that it could keep the federal money originally earmarked for that project and use it elsewhere.

So the whole story of Ms. Palin’s alleged heroic stand against wasteful spending is fiction.

Was the Bridge built? NO

Was Palin able to reduce the govt's budget? YES

What is so wrong with using the money for things that really needs it instead?

Or take the story of Mr. Obama’s alleged advocacy of kindergarten sex-ed. In reality, he supported legislation calling for “age and developmentally appropriate education”; in the case of young children, that would have meant guidance to help them avoid sexual predators.

AGAIN, leave the taking care of young childern to parents, school and the community.

We don't need no FREAKING legislation.

And then there’s the claim that Mr. Obama’s use of the ordinary metaphor “putting lipstick on a pig” was a sexist smear, and on and on.

you accuse others of lying by lying yourself.

Edited by AROCES

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AROCES
I urge everyone to vote this time. Democrats talk the talk but they don't walk the walk down to the polling sites. Get out and vote. We can't have the McCain Palin trainwreck win. I can't imagine them in office for a week, let alone 4 years. God help us all if that happens. Obama is the only decent, well spoken and intelligent candidate we've seen in a long long time.

I don't think so. Even Biden is saying now Hillary would have been a better VP and President. :lol:

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Whangarei

Listen to them speak. Watch them think. Biden might say that Hilary would have been better than him but that doesn't mean he's not better than Palin. Palin is a train wreck. Watch for interviews with her online. She's so far out of her depth its not funny. We'll be a laughing stock to the world if she wins. She's never had a passport and she's in her 40s? This is a disaster.

Edited by Whangarei

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Homer
I wouldn't say being a liar and being a politician is the same thing nor does it have to be connected. What a "good" politician does isn't lying it's diverting attention from a truth or answering a question without answering but leaving people satisfied. We might say we want an honest straight talking politician but if we are presented with reality we'll have to deal with real stuff and not just fluff, and who wants that? Apparently not many.

So then we disagree on what a lie is.

If someone asked me what color something is, and I answered blue when it is really navy blue, that wouldn’t be a lie because there was no intentional misleading.

Example 1) Someone’s quote is taken out of context. Although it was a quote, the deliberate misrepresentation and intentional deceit makes it a lie.

Example 2) Someone proposes great ideas after great ideas, but fails to disclose the approximate cost and how the cost will be paid. Withholding that information is misleading and therefore a lie.

I don’t have the patience to go further, but my point is, in my opinion, that if one intentionally distorts, misleads, deceives etc about themselves or their opponent to gain political ‘brownie points’, than they are liars.

All politicians do this, because all politician have to do this(or lose to those that do), therefore all politicians lie

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IrishAidan07
So what is the point of your thread....politicians change their minds? Like Obama is now for drilling.

It's wothless threads likes these, based on Democratic talking points that explains McCain leading in the polls.

I reckon I was thinking I could kill a few birds with one story. Ya see, Suh, the good Chuurstian Republican' men was spreadin' all kinna lies about Obama. Then I sees this Opinionated Articles in da Times and kinna figured I let Mr. Krugman address all these 'Publican lies. See, Suh?

You'll have to forgive the simple talk in the above paragraph. I just kinda figured only a simpleton couldn't figure out why I started this thread, so I figured I'd put it in a simple way just in case my suspicious were confirmed.

And McCain is not leading in all the polls. He leads in a few - Obama leads in many.

Also, only a simpleton would believe that polls this early mean anything whatsoever. You ain't a simpleton, are ya, Suh?

Edited by IrishAidan

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The Silver Thong
I urge everyone to vote this time. Democrats talk the talk but they don't walk the walk down to the polling sites. Get out and vote. We can't have the McCain Palin trainwreck win. I can't imagine them in office for a week, let alone 4 years. God help us all if that happens. Obama is the only decent, well spoken and intelligent candidate we've seen in a long long time.

To be honest I'm worried about both Mccain and Obama. I would seriously take Ron Pauls advise........ to bad he's out of the running errrrrr. Oh ya I'm not an American lol So any American's care to talk about the up comming Canadian election :lol: Kidding, thats way to boring LOL

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Startraveler
What is so wrong with using the money for things that really needs it instead?

I don't know. Why does your guy hate earmarks so much?

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Aztec Warrior
But more than a bit misleading, particularly as the notion is being presented that she opposed it on something other than purely political grounds.

Republican candidate for governor Sarah Palin supports the airport bridge project, her spokesman says. Ms. Palin told KTUU-TV last week that she would look to the federal government to write more checks for the project.

--
Anchorage Daily News
, October 25, 2006

I don't care if she backed off for political reasons. Political reasons are good reasons if you're a politician. But let's not kid ourselves that she's some sort of anti-pork crusader.

Does she oppose pork barrel spending or not?

More disingenuous rhetoric. Obama has indicated he's willing to give offshore drilling to the other side if the rest of his energy agenda is implemented. That is, he's willing to grant a concession to the opposition in exchange for something of greater value to himself. He hasn't joined the other side as you imply. Most of his campaign has been structured around the concept of compromising to move forward. Voila.

Maybe your confused about the term "pork-barrel spending". Legimate public works projects are NOT considered pork barrel spending. There is a BIG difference. Try to find some pork barrel spending project she promoted.

Yeah, lets be honest. Obama and the Dems looked at the polls about drilling and CHANGED their position.

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AROCES
Listen to them speak. Watch them think. Biden might say that Hilary would have been better than him but that doesn't mean he's not better than Palin. Palin is a train wreck. Watch for interviews with her online. She's so far out of her depth its not funny. We'll be a laughing stock to the world if she wins. She's never had a passport and she's in her 40s? This is a disaster.

Biden is then questioning Obama's major decision, right?

Fine, she will get a passport before January. ;)

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Startraveler
Maybe your confused about the term "pork-barrel spending". Legimate [sic] public works projects are NOT considered pork barrel spending. There is a BIG difference. Try to find some pork barrel spending project she promoted.

Let's try again.

Republican candidate for governor Sarah Palin supports the airport bridge project, her spokesman says. Ms. Palin told KTUU-TV last week that she would look to the federal government to write more checks for the project.

--Anchorage Daily News, October 25, 2006

September 21, 2007:

“Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer,” said Governor Palin. “Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it’s clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island,” Governor Palin added. “Much of the public’s attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here. But we need to focus on what we can do, rather than fight over what has happened.”

Does she oppose pork barrel spending or not?

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Whangarei
Biden is then questioning Obama's major decision, right?

Fine, she will get a passport before January. ;)

Not really. Obama couldn't have chosen Hilary. It would have been difficult to be president with a former president around. If Hilary could have been chosen with no strings attached (like Bill wasn't her husband and she'd be less critical of Obama) then it would have been a good choice. But in reality it probably wouldn't have been good.

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Sherapy
Although I refuse to get into specifics, politicians and liars are one and the same. Politics and lies are married to each other, and being a good politician is the same as being a good lawyer or a salesman. It's not about the good or bad, right or wrong, but how well you can present your case, manipulate the masses, sell your product.

During an election year lies are going to increase almost exponentially.

Show me a politician that doesn't lie and I will show you a politician looking for a new job.

that is why you have to be informed beyond TV or commericals,..

where most get their data to draw conclusions.. we see this in abundance on here by the threads that are being started.....

Of course Pallin and McCain are spinning stories, nothing is panning out.....

Integrity is an important atrribute for me...she seems very willing to go along with whatever is spinned and add to it....this reveals alot about her...IMO

a empowered female as she is touting herself ..

the irony is her and MCain do not even really know each other......

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Incorrigible1
LOL. Right or Wrong isn't the point. She and McCain are trying to tell people that she told them she wasn't going to take the money - period. As I've said, I like Palin. But for Christ sakes, be honest.

Yet Obama and Biden voted in favor of the bridge to nowhere.

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