Mother eve's tomb found?

[Guru2]

While surfing online, I accidentally stumbled upon a site saying that the location of Eve's tomb is actually known, and is present in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

There is even a picture. Here is a link.

Any info? And why does this pic look so old? And haven't any studies been made to check up on that matter?

[seanph]

It is also a claim that the tomb of Jesus is in India. Such claims are a dime a dozen.

IMHO Adam and Eve are complete myth. The creation story found in Genesis is based on numerous older stories that were very popular in the ancient Middle East. The Hebrews simply adopted/adapted it -- changed it to fit their needs. Genesis is allegorical, not literal. It is an attempt by the ancients to understand an extremely complicated world -- how and why things came to be.

Most kindly,

Sean

[Emma_Acid]

What do you mean "actually known"??? Eve didn't exist. Its a physical and biological impossibility for the entire human race to have come from two people.

And no, any "study" into its authenticity would be an utter waste of time. Its a folk myth. And like all folk myths it isn't true.

[isis-999]

I happen to believe there is no way they can say this is Eve, There is nothing to base such a claim on and like so many other ** We found it**, You just have to take the find with a grain of salt,

[Harte]

What do you mean "actually known"??? Eve didn't exist. Its a physical and biological impossibility for the entire human race to have come from two people.

And no, any "study" into its authenticity would be an utter waste of time. Its a folk myth. And like all folk myths it isn't true.

As usual, Emma nails it again.

There is a minimum population number under which any population of any higher animal will not be viable, due to the expression of recessive genes causing birth defects and sterility.

Recessive genes get expressed when both the father and mother possess the same recessive gene, a situation that is quite common among close® relatives.

An example would be the hemophilia that runs rampant through certain European royal families due to their inbreeding.

Adam and Eve may not have been technically related, but all of their offspring would have been brothers and sisters.

Recessive city - no human race.

Edit - wow, I always wondered how you make that trademark registered r - ®.

Harte

Edited September 15, 2008 by Harte

[Purplos]

Quite frankly, even if Eve was an actual person (which I certainly do not believe), how could they possibly PROVE that this tomb was hers? Bones buried with a fig leave and a bite of forbidden fruit petrified between her teeth?

Good grief.

[Harte]

Quite frankly, even if Eve was an actual person (which I certainly do not believe), how could they possibly PROVE that this tomb was hers? Bones buried with a fig leave and a bite of forbidden fruit petrified between her teeth?

Good grief.

Wouldn't she have one rib different from the rest as well?

H.

[eqgumby]

You guys are so cruel.

It's an ancient site and an unusual tomb according to the article.

I'm not saying it's Eve's tomb, or even that a literal Eve existed. But it would be worth an archaeological investigation. Perhaps there is a grain of truth here, and someone is buried here that was a template for the Biblical Eve. It's ancient enough that the legend is even a mystery. I wish there was more ability and access to sites like this, for archeologies sake.

[Harte]

You guys are so cruel.

It's an ancient site and an unusual tomb according to the article.

I'm not saying it's Eve's tomb, or even that a literal Eve existed. But it would be worth an archaeological investigation. Perhaps there is a grain of truth here, and someone is buried here that was a template for the Biblical Eve. It's ancient enough that the legend is even a mystery. I wish there was more ability and access to sites like this, for archeologies sake.

Okay, I'll bite.

How "ancient" is this tomb? It doesn't look so ancient to me.

The linked site doesn't say. I doubt it's any older than the Quran, given it's location.

Harte

[eqgumby]

Okay, I'll bite.

How "ancient" is this tomb? It doesn't look so ancient to me.

The linked site doesn't say. I doubt it's any older than the Quran, given it's location.

Harte

This tradition also recounts that after Eve's death, she was buried in Jeddah, where her tomb withstood the ravages of the ages up until only half a century ago when it could still be seen from Bab Medina --one of the three main gates which surrounded the town up until 1947. In that year the wall was demolished in order to expand the size of the rapidly growing city. Since Eve's Graveyard --as it was known-- had been venerated for so many centuries, people still stop and stare in awe at the place where the tomb used to be.

Historians who are not quite so enthusiastic about this particular tradition, however, trace Jeddah's existence to 2,500 years ago, when it was only a little village, home of the Quda'a tribe which survived on the great variety of fish they could find in the Red Sea.

http://www.saudicaves.com/saudi/oldjeddah.html

Quaint, but probably constructed within the last millenium, the bogus "tomb" was an enclosure whose walls marked the outline of a supposedly buried female of gigantic stature. At the head was a raised mound. Midway in the enclosure rose a small whitewashed dome, protecting from the elements a mystic black stone, El Surrah.

http://treinadoryosemite.blogspot.com/2008...am-and-eve.html

From a link to Time magazine I believe.

Now, all that said, it probably isn't more than 2000 years old (maybe 2500), but still worth looking into how such a myth would pop up in that particular place.

[Harte]

http://www.saudicaves.com/saudi/oldjeddah.html

http://treinadoryosemite.blogspot.com/2008...am-and-eve.html

From a link to Time magazine I believe.

Now, all that said, it probably isn't more than 2000 years old (maybe 2500), but still worth looking into how such a myth would pop up in that particular place.

The info is that the city dates that far back, not the "tomb."

Would you put the (former) World Trade Center at the same age as New York City?

Harte

[hetrodoxly]

To say a species can't descend from a single female isn't true, here's a model that proves otherwise. i.e. you don't need a diversity of genes.

In 1930, Israel Aharoni, a zoologist and professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, captured a mother hamster and her litter of pups in Aleppo, Syria. The hamsters were bred in Jerusalem as laboratory animals. Some escaped from the cage through a hole in the floor, so that most of the Syrian hamsters in Israel today are believed to be descended from this litter.[2] Because they were bigger than the ones Waterhouse found, they were named Mesocricetus auratus, which is now the currently accepted scientific name of the Syrian Hamster.

Descendants of these hamsters were shipped to Britain in 1931, where they came under the care of the Wellcome Bureau of Scientific Research. They bred well and two more pairs were given to the Zoological Society of London in 1932. The descendants of these were passed on to private breeders in 1937.[3]

Soon after their initial discovery, Syrian hamsters were found to make great pets. Just about all captive Syrian Hamsters today are descended from the original litter found in Syria, except for a few that were brought into the United States by travellers who found them in the desert. A separate stock of hamsters were exported from Syria into the US in 1971, but it is not known if any of today's North American pets are descended from them. Recent genetic studies involving mitochondrial DNA have confirmed that all domestic golden hamsters are descended from one female, obviously the one captured by Israel Aharoni in 1930..[

Also consider the "Seven daughters of eve" all Europeans are descended from just seven women, the human gene pool isn't that big.

Edited September 15, 2008 by hetrodoxly

[Oderint]

even if it was possible for genesis to be true and this in fact was Eves tomb...

how would they know?

I'm assuming there's no inscription saying "here lies Eve, mother of mankind, scourge of Adam".

[Harte]

To say a species can't descend from a single female isn't true, here's a model that proves otherwise. i.e. you don't need a diversity of genes.

Your model leaves out an important part of what's claimed, namely that we descend from one single male-female pair.

All descending from a single female is not at all the same - witness the fact that all humans descend from one female around 100,000 to 200,000 y.a. (depending on which mutation rate you pick for the mtDNA.)

That is not to say that there were not other mothers around at that time, just that their offspring did not survive until this day.

You absolutely do need a diversity of genes. Hamsters, if relegated to a single mating pair, will not be viable any more than humans would be.

Recent genetic studies involving mitochondrial DNA have confirmed that all domestic golden hamsters are descended from one female, obviously the one captured by Israel Aharoni in 1930.

Perhaps "obvious" to a Biblical literalist, but not obvious to anyone that knows anything about mtDNA analysis.

Again, humans are all descended from one female, yet there is thousands of years of evidence of existence of human males and females prior to this "mitochondrial Eve" from whence we all issued.

All golden hamsters being descended from a single female tells us absolutely nothing whatsoever about which female it was.

Harte

Edited September 15, 2008 by Harte

[hetrodoxly]

Your model leaves out an important part of what's claimed, namely that we descend from one single male-female pair.

All descending from a single female is not at all the same - witness the fact that all humans descend from one female around 100,000 to 200,000 y.a. (depending on which mutation rate you pick for the mtDNA.)

That is not to say that there were not other mothers around at that time, just that their offspring did not survive until this day.

You absolutely do need a diversity of genes. Hamsters, if relegated to a single mating pair, will not be viable any more than humans would be.

Perhaps "obvious" to a Biblical literalist, but not obvious to anyone that knows anything about mtDNA analysis.

Again, humans are all descended from one female, yet there is thousands of years of evidence of existence of human males and females prior to this "mitochondrial Eve" from whence we all issued.

All golden hamsters being descended from a single female tells us absolutely nothing whatsoever about which female it was.

Harte

I'm not putting up an argument for the Eve myth, but it can be done without a diversity of genes, all golden Hamsters in the world (and there's millions) descend from one female, you can't breed any closer than that.

[hetrodoxly]

What do you mean "actually known"??? Eve didn't exist. Its a physical and biological impossibility for the entire human race to have come from two people.

And no, any "study" into its authenticity wouldmyth, but are you sure all Myths arn't true?e be an utter waste of time. Its a folk myth. And like all folk myths it isn't true.

Again this isn't backing up the Eve myth, but are you sure all myths aren't true?

For many years children were told stories of a giant turtle but no one had ever seen it, so it was considered just a myth until 2006 · A turtle weighing more than 400 pounds lives in a lake at the center of Vietnam's capital, Hanoi. The turtle, as legend has it, is several hundred years old and is the last of its kind.

[ValkyrieVoice]

While surfing online, I accidentally stumbled upon a site saying that the location of Eve's tomb is actually known, and is present in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

There is even a picture. Here is a link.

Any info? And why does this pic look so old? And haven't any studies been made to check up on that matter?

Well, if it is Eve's tomb? It's about bloody time that someone found it. I mean, we memorialize everything in this life and I've always wondered where Adam's, Eve's, Mary's and Joseph's graves/tombs were/are. I mean, the two first people and the parents of Jesus? Shouldn't they all be well known and memorialized? One would/should think so.

Edited September 16, 2008 by ValkyrieVoice

[Guru2]

Well, according to the article, it's 400 feet long. I totally agree that even if this was Eve's tomb, there is no possible way to prove it, yet imagine the substantiality of the fact that this could be a human tomb.

If this was really someone's tomb, it would be one of the greatest discoveries in history.

[Harte]

I'm not putting up an argument for the Eve myth, but it can be done without a diversity of genes, all golden Hamsters in the world (and there's millions) descend from one female, you can't breed any closer than that.

As a matter of fact, you can.

How are we to know that each golden hamster in existence didn't come from a line of hamsters arising from a different "original" father?

A female hamster can have more than one sex partner.

Don't forget, all humans descend from one female, but there were plenty of humans around before she was born.

Harte

Edited September 16, 2008 by Harte

[hetrodoxly]

As a matter of fact, you can.

How are we to know that each golden hamster in existence didn't come from a line of hamsters arising from a different "original" father?

A female hamster can have more than one sex partner.

Don't forget, all humans descend from one female, but there were plenty of humans around before she was born.

Harte

One female golden hamster with ten young was dug from her nest in 1930s only one other had been found prior to this in about 1870? it's skin is in the British museum, the female didn't have other male's to mate with it's well documented, all Golden hamsters in the world originate from this mother and her young.

[The Unseen]

Fake fake fake fake fake,How in the world did a tomb get build if they were the only ones around on the planet after God thew them out of the garden of Edan? And there is noway that anything servived that long,I would not be fast to believe anything from that country even if they had DNA proof.Dont believ everything someone tells you.

[Lion of Judah]

I don't believe thats Eves tomb because adam was buried next to abel by angels so eve should be next to her spouse their grave is in mesoptomania

[Guru2]

Fake fake fake fake fake,How in the world did a tomb get build if they were the only ones around on the planet after God thew them out of the garden of Edan? And there is noway that anything servived that long.

Well, because they weren't the only ones living! Eve gave birth to numerous children, remember? Those of which we supposedly have descended from, or else no humanity would have existed!

I couldn't agree more that there is no possibility of something to have lasted that long, yet imagine the possibility of a human with such colossal features to have roamed the earth once. It would be one hell of a discovery!

[Harte]

One female golden hamster with ten young was dug from her nest in 1930s only one other had been found prior to this in about 1870? it's skin is in the British museum, the female didn't have other male's to mate with it's well documented, all Golden hamsters in the world originate from this mother and her young.

Apparently, it is your claim that the golden hamster was created out of thin air on a fateful day in either the 1930s or around 1870.

No, really I see what your saying, just the way you phrased it makes the Golden Hamster seem "mysterious."

Anyway, obviously the Golden Hamster existed in the wild in the Middle east, right? And the hamsters escaped into Israel, right?

According to you, the female had no other males than her sons with which to copulate. That's fine with me, though rather distasteful, I presume, to the hamsters in question.

What you ignore is that the hamster, like a large variety of animals, can have pups from many different fathers simultaneously in the same litter.

Brother and sister hamsters can be, and certainly often are (in the wild,) simply half-cousins in the family structure we humans usually use,.

On the other hand, how often do you hear of a woman having a set of twins, each twin from a different father?

Harte

[jaylemurph]

Well, if it is Eve's tomb? It's about bloody time that someone found it. I mean, we memorialize everything in this life and I've always wondered where Adam's, Eve's, Mary's and Joseph's graves/tombs were/are. I mean, the two first people and the parents of Jesus? Shouldn't they all be well known and memorialized? One would/should think so.

Do you wonder where Apollo (or even Apollo Creed's) tomb is, too?

--Jaylemurph