PETA Urges Ben & Jerry's To Use Human Milk

[fylgja]

You've been asked three time to prove a source for this information and thus far you have failed to do so. Therefore I can only conclude that there is no such source.

Concentration camps were not invented by the Nazis. The British used such camps during the Boar War and the Americans used them during their occupation of the Philippines I believe. The first death camps that were set up were not for Jews, but rather for the disabled. At first Jews were killed by having them dig pits and then shooting them. However this was seen as a poor method of going about the 'Final Solution'. So the death camps were put into full affect. Posion gas was used on the disabled and was used again since it was seen as the best way to kill large numbers of people. Also not everyone was killed right away. About 10% of every train load was sent to the factory part of the camps and worked to death. However if the barracks were full then everyone was killed. Now there was comparison to cattle made but this was condemned by one of the leaders of the death camps, Adolf Eichmann. In all factories seemed to be the base for the death camps, not slaughter houses.

Now where I got this information was from a booked called 'The Nazis' by Robert Edwin Herzstein. I await to hear where you got your information.

You are righ that the Nazi's did not invent the concentration camps, but factory farms and slaughterhouses were invented in the late 19th century. That was the first concept of a concentration camp. Barbed wire was only used in those factory farms to keep animals under control until the invention of concentration camps in the early 20th century, where it was applied to humans.

I honestly don't see what this has to do with the topic though. You are just sore because I already have proven you wrong when you made the false claim that PETA said, "Jews are just like chicken." Get over it.

Also, you made the claim earlier that cows milk is "drunk" in every country for centuries. Prove it.

[Plainbob13]

You are righ that the Nazi's did not invent the concentration camps, but factory farms and slaughterhouses were invented in the late 19th century. That was the first concept of a concentration camp. Barbed wire was only used in those factory farms to keep animals under control until the invention of concentration camps in the early 20th century, where it was applied to humans.

I honestly don't see what this has to do with the topic though. You are just sore because I already have proven you wrong when you made the false claim that PETA said, "Jews are just like chicken." Get over it.

Also, you made the claim earlier that cows milk is "drunk" in every country for centuries. Prove it.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=31211

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/28/peta.holocaust/

http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/PETA-Vs-Holocaust.htm

http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=724

http://www.aim.org/guest-column/petas-deat...omes-auschwitz/

Edited September 28, 2008 by Plainbob13

[fylgja]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=31211

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/28/peta.holocaust/

http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=724

http://www.aim.org/guest-column/petas-deat...omes-auschwitz/

Nowhere in any of those articles does it say PETA said "Jews are like chickens."

The merely said that animals are often treated as nothing more than machines, stripped of all that is enjoyable because we see them as inferior to us, just as the Nazi's treated the Jews during the Holocaust. Nowhere does it say that the victims are like chickens. I do agree that making giant billboard of photos of the holocaust victims was very insensitive, but it was not in anyway saying that human suffering is less valid because animals are being put through similar circumstances simply for your enjoyment.

[Corp]

You are righ that the Nazi's did not invent the concentration camps, but factory farms and slaughterhouses were invented in the late 19th century. That was the first concept of a concentration camp. Barbed wire was only used in those factory farms to keep animals under control until the invention of concentration camps in the early 20th century, where it was applied to humans.

I honestly don't see what this has to do with the topic though. You are just sore because I already have proven you wrong when you made the false claim that PETA said, "Jews are just like chicken." Get over it.

Also, you made the claim earlier that cows milk is "drunk" in every country for centuries. Prove it.

Of course fences are used to keep animals in a current area, that was their purpose. Wasn't just with slaughter house but farms in general. And the only thing you proved was that PETA didn't come up with the comparison of death camps on their own, but took it from someone else. They still used that idea in a public ad campaign to try and place the lives of chickens on the same level as those who were murdered by the Nazis. As for proving the wide use of milk just look at the news coming out of China (check any news website). Big milk scare there with dozens of countries banning Chinese milk products. I know people drink milk in North America and Europe, cattle farmers and their quest for land help form the borders of South America so I'm sure they drink milk there, and with so little water in Africa people there would need to be fool to ignore another source of liquid. Now the historical evidence is hard to come up with since there isn't much work done on what people drink (execpt booze) but I do know that the Mongels mainly drank the milk of horse (p114, 'Mongols, Huns & Vikings' by Hugh Kennedy). Not a cow to be sure, but still an animal.

But that's neither where nor there. You've refused to provide evidence to your claims, you dismiss my agruements as me being 'sore', and you've countered by demanding that I back something up that's common knowledge. I don't seen any point continuing this debate. Concession accepted.

Attempt to get thread back on topic: So I wonder if the flavors will just be named after people.

"I'd like some Amy Jones ice cream."

"Sorry all we have left is Linda Smith."

[AlexG]

Cow milk, goat milk, horse milk, buffalo milk, people have been drinking the milk of other mammals for as long as animals have been domesticated.

If PETA or the associated nut cases want to claim otherwise, they've got a whole lot of history to refute or ignore.

[AlexG]

Quality Assurance... There's the job to have.

[fylgja]

Of course fences are used to keep animals in a current area, that was their purpose. Wasn't just with slaughter house but farms in general. And the only thing you proved was that PETA didn't come up with the comparison of death camps on their own, but took it from someone else. They still used that idea in a public ad campaign to try and place the lives of chickens on the same level as those who were murdered by the Nazis. As for proving the wide use of milk just look at the news coming out of China (check any news website). Big milk scare there with dozens of countries banning Chinese milk products. I know people drink milk in North America and Europe, cattle farmers and their quest for land help form the borders of South America so I'm sure they drink milk there, and with so little water in Africa people there would need to be fool to ignore another source of liquid. Now the historical evidence is hard to come up with since there isn't much work done on what people drink (execpt booze) but I do know that the Mongels mainly drank the milk of horse (p114, 'Mongols, Huns & Vikings' by Hugh Kennedy). Not a cow to be sure, but still an animal.

But that's neither where nor there. You've refused to provide evidence to your claims, you dismiss my agruements as me being 'sore', and you've countered by demanding that I back something up that's common knowledge. I don't seen any point continuing this debate. Concession accepted.

Prior to concentration camps the the animals were the only ones fenced into an area, crowded together. Because you refuse to acknowledge this does not mean it was not true.

Maybe you can tell me a different place that the idea came from to fence in a whole lot of people?

It is not common knowledge that people have drank milk throughout history, all over the world. Before pastuerization was invented in the late 1800's drinking milk was very dangerous.

Baby's under the age of 1 should not be given cow's milk because it can cause an increased risk of iron deficiency, and it is lacking in the nutrients they need. Formulas now produced sometimes have a cow's milk base, but are "pre-digested" through a mechanical process and filled full of articial vitamins and nutrients.

You can find more information and statistics on the dangers of milk consumption, and other animal products, in the book "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell, a nutritional biochemist at Cornell University.

The book is a 20 year study of nutrition, including areas of rural China where the consumption of cow's milk products is just now being introduced.

Edited September 28, 2008 by fylgja

[+Sherapy]

Maybe I'm the one who doesn't get the joke....but I think things like this are just to highlight what the reality of a situation is - not to promote a serious intellectual discussion about exactly how we are going to make frozen creamy delights from human breast milk.

An animal rights group where I am put up posters of a business man dressed up in a suit apparently suckling underneath a cow with a heading similar to "Cows Milk - Just For Baby Cows" It used to make my partner and I hysterical with laughter whenever we walked past it.

Edit: Found it! (or something similar)

http://www.milkmyths.org.uk/pdfs/middleman_a4.pdf

Belle and flygsa,

I do get that this is their way of getting Ben and Jerrys attention.....

if this is not gonna do it oy vey???

[fylgja]

Unfortunatly PETA's approach of bringing attention to the inanity of drinking cow's milk requires too much critical thinking for the average American. Maybe the use of hilarious anecdotes, jokes, and reality shows might help?

Edited September 28, 2008 by fylgja

[XXDarkxLovexSpiritXX]

I saw this on the news the other day and i just have to say, I find the idea of eating ice cream full of random womens breast milk immensely disturbing.

[Belle.]

Unfortunatly PETA's approach of bringing attention to the inanity of drinking cow's milk requires too much critical thinking for the average American. Maybe the use of hilarious anecdotes, jokes, and reality shows might help?

You are probably right. Strangely it tends to promote a serious discussion about how we would get enough human breast milk!?!? and could it be safe enough!?! would it taste strange?!?!? Which I must admit I find kinda cute, oddly missing the point, but cute.

Yes a reality show, called "IT'S ME OR THE COW"

[MissMelsWell]

I've actually made sausages. Nom nom.

Hey SC... head a few miles down the road from your place and go to the British Pantry in Redmond... they have one of the few licenses in the area to make and case their own sausages and they are HEAVENLY. (their fresh take and bake shepards pies are fab too) LOL. You can get Spotted Dick there as well... and their restaurant Nevels makes the best fish and chips in the whole area. They're behind the Jamba Juice downtown, kinda by QFC.

PETA sucks. That's all I have to say about that. I don't drink milk or really eat ice cream... but PETA isn't doing anything but being a laughing stock once again... I'd rather they be a laughing stock though than the animal killers I've run into. Not too mention that poor old lady they pushed over and hurt right in front of my eyes. They're a domestic terrorist organization. Awful.

[fylgja]

Hey SC... head a few miles down the road from your place and go to the British Pantry in Redmond... they have one of the few licenses in the area to make and case their own sausages and they are HEAVENLY. (their fresh take and bake shepards pies are fab too) LOL. You can get Spotted Dick there as well... and their restaurant Nevels makes the best fish and chips in the whole area. They're behind the Jamba Juice downtown, kinda by QFC.

PETA sucks. That's all I have to say about that. I don't drink milk or really eat ice cream... but PETA isn't doing anything but being a laughing stock once again... I'd rather they be a laughing stock though than the animal killers I've run into. Not too mention that poor old lady they pushed over and hurt right in front of my eyes. They're a domestic terrorist organization. Awful.

Huh? How are they terrorists?

[MissMelsWell]

Huh? How are they terrorists?

Apparently you didn't read the whole thread. I posted my experience with PETA... They're domestic terrorists who not only kill animals, but also do harm to people. I've witnessed it up close and personal. In fact, I was interviewed on the news after the incident.

Not too mention, PETA has killed hundreds, if not thousands of dogs and cats. There was a huge trial in North Carolina about how they were putting pets down, then dumping them in private dumpsters around the city. Unfortunately, they were only given a slap on the wrist by the judge.

There also seems to be evidence that PETA may be quietly funding the Earth Liberation Front (ELF)... ELF has killed people. ELF burned down an entire wing of the University of Washington here in Seattle several years ago. They also caused the deaths of several people in Colorado. ELF is BAD BAD news. We have terrible problems with them here where I live. I think PETA has more involvement with ELF than they are willing to admit. ELF IS listed as a domestic terrorist organization with the US government.

If you're involved with PETA, I suggest you take a look around at what they're really doing and who they're actually connected with. PETA is scary.

Edited September 29, 2008 by MissMelsWell

[fylgja]

Apparently you didn't read the whole thread. I posted my experience with PETA... They're domestic terrorists who not only kill animals, but also do harm to people. I've witnessed it up close and personal. In fact, I was interviewed on the news after the incident.

Not too mention, PETA has killed hundreds, if not thousands of dogs and cats. There was a huge trial in North Carolina about how they were putting pets down, then dumping them in private dumpsters around the city. Unfortunately, they were only given a slap on the wrist by the judge.

There also seems to be evidence that PETA may be quietly funding the Earth Liberation Front (ELF)... ELF has killed people. ELF burned down an entire wing of the University of Washington here in Seattle several years ago. They also caused the deaths of several people in Colorado. ELF is BAD BAD news. We have terrible problems with them here where I live. I think PETA has more involvement with ELF than they are willing to admit. ELF IS listed as a domestic terrorist organization with the US government.

If you're involved with PETA, I suggest you take a look around at what they're really doing and who they're actually connected with. PETA is scary.

I'm not a member of PETA. I'm a member of the ASPCA and the DAV and the American Legion. I don't think that people should cause any kind of violence to help animals or the Earth. The goes against the principles that they should be struggling for. I've known about their practice of euthanizing dangerous dogs. That is common practice for the humane society as well. Actually, I think it is the law to put down dogs who have bitten people.

[Michelle]

I'm not a member of PETA. I'm a member of the ASPCA and the DAV and the American Legion. I don't think that people should cause any kind of violence to help animals or the Earth. The goes against the principles that they should be struggling for. I've known about their practice of euthanizing dangerous dogs. That is common practice for the humane society as well. Actually, I think it is the law to put down dogs who have bitten people.

You didn't read the article she has a link to, obviously. These were not animals that were unadoptable or potentially dangerous...there were a lot of puppies and kittens.

Maybe you should look up "PETA idiots", "unethical PETA" or PetaKillsAnimals.com and get a little more information.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Michelle

[fylgja]

You didn't read the article she has a link to, obviously. These were not animals that were unadoptable or potentially dangerous...there were a lot of puppies and kittens.

Maybe you should look up "PETA idiots", "unethical PETA" or PetaKillsAnimals.com and get a little more information.

I read the articles. I think it is sick. I also think that you must not eat animals if you care so much about their welfare. congratulations.

[Michelle]

I've known about their practice of euthanizing dangerous dogs. That is common practice for the humane society as well. Actually, I think it is the law to put down dogs who have bitten people.

How could you have read the articles and so grossly misrepresented them? Anyone that defends PETA either has to agree with their dangerous (to the animals) idiotic tactics or is uninformed.

[Occam's Paradox]

Also, the person who made the comparison between concentration camps and factory farms was not PETA, it was Jewish writer Isaac Bashevis Singer (LINK). PETA just quoted his work.

Exactly.

Cows milk is designed to make a little calf turn into a 1000 pound cow. No wonder we have such an obesity problem in America when this stuff is being pushed on everyone from the time they are two.

Are you suggesting cow's milk causes obesity? xD

[MissMelsWell]

I'll say it...

I was raised a vegan... I love animals, I've always kept dogs, and I raised parrots for many years.

I'm also a Quaker, one of our core beliefs is non-violence to living things. However, I do not believe animals to be our equal, but they are deserving of our care and respect, but again, I don't beleive they are our equals. They have a purpose on this earth but that purpose isn't necessarily to live out their lives being cared for by humans as our equals. Their purpose might be to be companions pets, to keep the ecology balanced, or, as a food source.

Now, that being said... I'm no longer vegan or even vegitarian, but not for lack of trying over the years. My parents are some of the most knowlegeble people around in regard to the non-animal protien diets, they've been practicing and teaching it for more than 40 years.

They have had to concede that I can't possibly be healthy on a non-animal protien diet (trust me, it took a LONG time and a lot of illness for them to come to the conclusion I did 20 years ago) and some people simply need it.

I'm tired, really tired of justifying my PERSONAL eating habits to self-righteous veggieheads--at home, at church, on UM... I've been doing it for the last 20+ years. Get over it. i'm never going back to the diet that damn near killed me.

I hope you don't wear leather shoes, belts, jackets, have leather furniture, or leather interior in your car... I hope none of your paint brushes or hair brushes are natural animal fiber, I hope you don't wear make up or use natural hair products that use animal by-products, if you have pets, you're feeding them a vegitarian diet right? Trust me, animal products are EVERYWHERE. They're almost impossible to avoid. It doesn't stop with food. Good luck.

Edited September 30, 2008 by MissMelsWell

[fylgja]

I'll say it...

I was raised a vegan... I love animals, I've always kept dogs, and I raised parrots for many years.

I'm also a Quaker, one of our core beliefs is non-violence to living things. However, I do not believe animals to be our equal, but they are deserving of our care and respect, but again, I don't beleive they are our equals. They have a purpose on this earth but that purpose isn't necessarily to live out their lives being cared for by humans as our equals. Their purpose might be to be companions pets, to keep the ecology balanced, or, as a food source.

Now, that being said... I'm no longer vegan or even vegitarian, but not for lack of trying over the years. My parents are some of the most knowlegeble people around in regard to the non-animal protien diets, they've been practicing and teaching it for more than 40 years.

They have had to concede that I can't possibly be healthy on a non-animal protien diet (trust me, it took a LONG time and a lot of illness for them to come to the conclusion I did 20 years ago) and some people simply need it.

I'm tired, really tired of justifying my PERSONAL eating habits to self-righteous veggieheads--at home, at church, on UM... I've been doing it for the last 20+ years. Get over it. i'm never going back to the diet that damn near killed me.

I hope you don't wear leather shoes, belts, jackets, have leather furniture, or leather interior in your car... I hope none of your paint brushes or hair brushes are natural animal fiber, I hope you don't wear make up or use natural hair products that use animal by-products, if you have pets, you're feeding them a vegitarian diet right? Trust me, animal products are EVERYWHERE. They're almost impossible to avoid. It doesn't stop with food. Good luck.

I never said that I was vegan, and I never asked you to justify your lifestyle to me. I just think that if someone is so rabidly against dogs being euthanized, as the other poser said earlier, than they are a hypocrite if they contribute to animal death and suffering through the meat industry. I think you are running around looking for someone new to rebel against since mommy and daddy decided to accept your choices.

[jesspy]

Yeah, you shouldn't watch while they make sausage, either.

Lol sausages are cool they use up all the left over bits stuff them inside intestines and you have sausages. Its kinda cool to watch a sausage machine thing in action. My Grandma used to know a butcher who was friends with her dad he had to hand pack sausages (those big fat ones krunskies or something) before they made those machines

[MissMelsWell]

I never said that I was vegan, and I never asked you to justify your lifestyle to me. I just think that if someone is so rabidly against dogs being euthanized, as the other poser said earlier, than they are a hypocrite if they contribute to animal death and suffering through the meat industry.

Actually, I'm saying take that notion a step further... no more leather, no more meat based pet food, no more cosmetics, no more anything that makes use of animal protien. It's quite impossible, so no, it's not really hypocritcal. We wouldn't have lovely leather jackets and shoes and sofas at affordable prices if no cows were eaten for food (then they'd just be slaughtered for their hide? Now that's wasteful). The parts we don't eat are sold and rendered into pet food. Their hides are sold and sent off for tanning to the leather industry. The leather industry sells the hair to brush companies etc... In essance, we're using the whole of the animal--geeze Louise, they even sell the cow poop and bones to fertilizer companies. If there are slaughterhouses out there that aren't selling the indedible parts off to tanners and rendering houses, then they're missing out on making a fortune in the secondary markets. Most good businessmen don't pass up the opportunity to make money in secondary markets. Hell, even a company like Starbucks sells their caffiene from the decaf process to cola companies, drug companies, etc...

So if you like your leather and other animal products, thank goodness there are people who will eat the beef so the whole animal is used in the end. Isn't that what everyone admired about native cultures? We do the same, but it's a lot more bogged down in manufacturing for people to realize it.

I think you are running around looking for someone new to rebel against since mommy and daddy decided to accept your choices.

Highly unlikely. I chose to rebel against other things from my childhood but thanks for the psychoanalysis I didn't ask for. LOL.

[fylgja]

Actually, I'm saying take that notion a step further... no more leather, no more meat based pet food, no more cosmetics, no more anything that makes use of animal protien. It's quite impossible, so no, it's not really hypocritcal. We wouldn't have lovely leather jackets and shoes and sofas at affordable prices if no cows were eaten for food (then they'd just be slaughtered for their hide? Now that's wasteful). The parts we don't eat are sold and rendered into pet food. Their hides are sold and sent off for tanning to the leather industry. The leather industry sells the hair to brush companies etc... In essance, we're using the whole of the animal--geeze Louise, they even sell the cow poop and bones to fertilizer companies. If there are slaughterhouses out there that aren't selling the indedible parts off to tanners and rendering houses, then they're missing out on making a fortune in the secondary markets. Most good businessmen don't pass up the opportunity to make money in secondary markets. Hell, even a company like Starbucks sells their caffiene from the decaf process to cola companies, drug companies, etc...

So if you like your leather and other animal products, thank goodness there are people who will eat the beef so the whole animal is used in the end. Isn't that what everyone admired about native cultures? We do the same, but it's a lot more bogged down in manufacturing for people to realize it.

I don't wear leather. I don't wear make-up either. But a lot of that other stuff you mentioned are by-products of the meat industry. Stop eating meat and the alternatives would be more readily available. No one can be 100% animal product free in our society, but it is important to shop with a conscience. Think about where your stuff comes from, and I am not just talking about animal welfare either.

[+Sherapy]

I'll say it...

I was raised a vegan... I love animals, I've always kept dogs, and I raised parrots for many years.

I'm also a Quaker, one of our core beliefs is non-violence to living things. However, I do not believe animals to be our equal, but they are deserving of our care and respect, but again, I don't beleive they are our equals. They have a purpose on this earth but that purpose isn't necessarily to live out their lives being cared for by humans as our equals. Their purpose might be to be companions pets, to keep the ecology balanced, or, as a food source.

Now, that being said... I'm no longer vegan or even vegitarian, but not for lack of trying over the years. My parents are some of the most knowlegeble people around in regard to the non-animal protien diets, they've been practicing and teaching it for more than 40 years.

They have had to concede that I can't possibly be healthy on a non-animal protien diet (trust me, it took a LONG time and a lot of illness for them to come to the conclusion I did 20 years ago) and some people simply need it.

I'm tired, really tired of justifying my PERSONAL eating habits to self-righteous veggieheads--at home, at church, on UM... I've been doing it for the last 20+ years. Get over it. i'm never going back to the diet that damn near killed me.

I hope you don't wear leather shoes, belts, jackets, have leather furniture, or leather interior in your car... I hope none of your paint brushes or hair brushes are natural animal fiber, I hope you don't wear make up or use natural hair products that use animal by-products, if you have pets, you're feeding them a vegitarian diet right? Trust me, animal products are EVERYWHERE. They're almost impossible to avoid. It doesn't stop with food. Good luck.

MW, was it medically determined by a doctor or is this just what you have decided ..and don't get me wrong how you live your life is up to you .......

let me tell you why, the medical comm. says the healthiest lifestyle is a diet that is rich in vegetables and whole grains and legumes, low in animal ..meaning no more than 2 small servings of meat/animal per week per week ( thats 2 meals a week ) . you can criticique and i am open to hearing it but please provide data that supports that eating meat is health promoting and how as in following a vegan diet is not...............

you have even posted many times your mom and sister ( an athlete) and dad have no issues have on a vegan diet.........perhaps you were sickly as a child and have decided it was your diet now how you eat is on you but you are inferring its the cause of your health issues.....you also smoke correct?????

If you choose to eat animal its your decision, and because you choose too we now know with advancements in nutrition we don't 'need' to eat meat to be healthy but we can prefer or choose too........so do you hunt your own meat then or buy from a private slaughter house that raises your cow ????

its not hard to avoid using animal and many are managing to do , its really about commitment and awareness....

i don't drink coffee or sodas either its not unaviodable ..

if you choose to eat meat because you prefer to eat meat who cares its your life.....??.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Tangerine Sheri